Who has a NWP VIAS block plate on their 5.5 gen?
11-20-2009, 08:37 PM
#82
not to be a downer or jack the thread, but has anyone noticed any mpg differences between having the plate installed vs the VIAS? I know, don't mod your car if you want fuel economy and whatnot...but I was just curious if anyone noticed a difference. I feel as though mine went down, however that could be due to the more aggressive use of the throttle haha. But over the course of time I do feel as if my mpg's decreased. Anyone care to comment?
11-20-2009, 08:38 PM
#84
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not to be a downer or jack the thread, but has anyone noticed any mpg differences between having the plate installed vs the VIAS? I know, don't mod your car if you want fuel economy and whatnot...but I was just curious if anyone noticed a difference. I feel as though mine went down, however that could be due to the more aggressive use of the throttle haha. But over the course of time I do feel as if my mpg's decreased. Anyone care to comment?
11-20-2009, 08:41 PM
#85
Yeah, that's what I figured. I put the VIAS back in and all seems better. Too bad because I think it's a cool thing to have. Although once I get a job and don't have to pinch every tank I'll probably put it back in haha
11-20-2009, 09:14 PM
#86
That is, as long as you never drive over 4000 to 6500 RPM's. (Which isn't realistic, if you're modding the car.) In which case, yeah, I could see your mileage go south.
I don't think it's the VIAS-delete that's reducing your mileage. More likely that's happening because you're driving in the upper RPM's without the VIAS.
It's the whole "guns don't kill people" argument.
11-20-2009, 09:52 PM
#87
Cruising range is under the 2800 rpms where the VIAS system improves power (look at the dyno chart) and power is actually a touch higher with the block-off plate under 2800 rpm. Theoretically, with a bit more low end power, you don't have to use as much gas to maintain a steady speed. However, since the difference is very small, you probably wouldn't notice any improvement.
First few tankfuls after an engine mod really aren't representative of your normal driving habits since you do a lot of "testing" to confirm to yourself the mod did increase power and you got your money's worth.
First few tankfuls after an engine mod really aren't representative of your normal driving habits since you do a lot of "testing" to confirm to yourself the mod did increase power and you got your money's worth.
11-21-2009, 06:15 AM
#90
My thoughts on the VIAS delete vs Stock.
-3800rpm seems to be the magic number in this comparison. Below 3800 the Stock setup is better but after that its all gains with the NWP Blockplate and the VIAS delete!!!
-From 3800 all the way to redline with the VIAS delete I showed an average 8hp gain across the board with a peak of 10.5hp at 6000.
-From 2700 until 3800 the Stock setup was good for an average of 8hp over the VIAS delete with a peak of 9hp at 3400.
-From 3800 until redline the VIAS delete made an average of 8tq more with a peak of 10.5tq at 4200.
-From 2800 until 3800 the Stock setup was good for an average of 10tq more with a peak of 16tq more at 3400.
The verdict..... Its really just up to what you want to drive with, I am choosing the NWP Block plate with an unmodifed IM for now.
-I like the power from 3800rpm until redline rather than power below 3800rpm, I feel the losses down that low are worth the gains I see up high. When I stomp on the gas I dont stay below 3800 for very long, this makes the VIAS delete a beneficial mod IMHO.
-3800rpm seems to be the magic number in this comparison. Below 3800 the Stock setup is better but after that its all gains with the NWP Blockplate and the VIAS delete!!!
-From 3800 all the way to redline with the VIAS delete I showed an average 8hp gain across the board with a peak of 10.5hp at 6000.
-From 2700 until 3800 the Stock setup was good for an average of 8hp over the VIAS delete with a peak of 9hp at 3400.
-From 3800 until redline the VIAS delete made an average of 8tq more with a peak of 10.5tq at 4200.
-From 2800 until 3800 the Stock setup was good for an average of 10tq more with a peak of 16tq more at 3400.
The verdict..... Its really just up to what you want to drive with, I am choosing the NWP Block plate with an unmodifed IM for now.
-I like the power from 3800rpm until redline rather than power below 3800rpm, I feel the losses down that low are worth the gains I see up high. When I stomp on the gas I dont stay below 3800 for very long, this makes the VIAS delete a beneficial mod IMHO.
11-21-2009, 06:58 AM
#92
I'm not sure if this was discussed before... But i was just curious, no I wouldn't go ghetto but Isn't the block off plate Just a plate correct? If so couldn't you just modify the stock one to do the same thing? cutt or break everything on the inside off and then re-aply the plate? Or am I missing something...
11-21-2009, 07:06 AM
#93
I'm not sure if this was discussed before... But i was just curious, no I wouldn't go ghetto but Isn't the block off plate Just a plate correct? If so couldn't you just modify the stock one to do the same thing? cutt or break everything on the inside off and then re-aply the plate? Or am I missing something...
But yes, it's just a plate on the end of the upper IM. The plate isn't the mod per se; it's the VIAS-delete that's the mod.
11-21-2009, 07:33 AM
#94
if you have a belt sander and a die grinder you can make your own
Welding the existing one is a MAJOR PITA. The japanese aluminum is the lowest quality they can make. It pits and resists welding something fierce. I ruined mine trying to weld it up. So I came up with these. They still have to be polished up for the marks on the outside. Then I will soak them in a bath of water and draino to make it look stock.
Welding the existing one is a MAJOR PITA. The japanese aluminum is the lowest quality they can make. It pits and resists welding something fierce. I ruined mine trying to weld it up. So I came up with these. They still have to be polished up for the marks on the outside. Then I will soak them in a bath of water and draino to make it look stock.
11-21-2009, 07:44 AM
#95
if you have a belt sander and a die grinder you can make your own
Welding the existing one is a MAJOR PITA. The japanese aluminum is the lowest quality they can make. It pits and resists welding something fierce. I ruined mine trying to weld it up. So I came up with these. They still have to be polished up for the marks on the outside. Then I will soak them in a bath of water and draino to make it look stock.
Welding the existing one is a MAJOR PITA. The japanese aluminum is the lowest quality they can make. It pits and resists welding something fierce. I ruined mine trying to weld it up. So I came up with these. They still have to be polished up for the marks on the outside. Then I will soak them in a bath of water and draino to make it look stock.
Between these, and your short-ram intakes, it looks like you're gearing up for a small niche business.
11-21-2009, 09:03 AM
#96
11-21-2009, 09:36 AM
#97
Wouldnt the NWP spacers balance out any loss from the plate?
11-21-2009, 09:44 AM
#98
Yes. More so.
11-21-2009, 10:15 AM
#99
I don't have a CNC machine so everything I do is done by hand. The block off plate is pretty easy if time consuming. Just clamp your old plate to a piece of aluminum, drill the 3 holes, bolt the two pieces together and sawcut/sand/grind whatever until you almost touch your original piece. Undo the bolts and polish your new plate.
11-21-2009, 05:05 PM
#102
11-21-2009, 06:22 PM
#103
You actually confirmed the MPG loss by putting the valve back in? That's the first I'd read that. I thought the point of the VIAS was to tweak airflow so there was more power in the lower RPM's. Following that line of thought, if you're reducing the power low-end, wouldn't you be increasing mileage?
That is, as long as you never drive over 4000 to 6500 RPM's. (Which isn't realistic, if you're modding the car.) In which case, yeah, I could see your mileage go south.
I don't think it's the VIAS-delete that's reducing your mileage. More likely that's happening because you're driving in the upper RPM's without the VIAS.
It's the whole "guns don't kill people" argument.
That is, as long as you never drive over 4000 to 6500 RPM's. (Which isn't realistic, if you're modding the car.) In which case, yeah, I could see your mileage go south.
I don't think it's the VIAS-delete that's reducing your mileage. More likely that's happening because you're driving in the upper RPM's without the VIAS.
It's the whole "guns don't kill people" argument.
Cruising range is under the 2800 rpms where the VIAS system improves power (look at the dyno chart) and power is actually a touch higher with the block-off plate under 2800 rpm. Theoretically, with a bit more low end power, you don't have to use as much gas to maintain a steady speed. However, since the difference is very small, you probably wouldn't notice any improvement.
First few tankfuls after an engine mod really aren't representative of your normal driving habits since you do a lot of "testing" to confirm to yourself the mod did increase power and you got your money's worth.
First few tankfuls after an engine mod really aren't representative of your normal driving habits since you do a lot of "testing" to confirm to yourself the mod did increase power and you got your money's worth.
11-21-2009, 08:35 PM
#104
Also realize, that dyno's are conducted under WOT, which means airflow velocity would be at it's highest (fully open throttle plate allowing the most airflow it can). Under cruise, it's a light load, low throttle opening. I think the reason the fuel mileage went down is because there's no VIAS to help TUNE the airflow. I'm having a hard time explaining it but try to follow along. Seeing as how the air has more places to go, it'd become more scattered, causing it to be less effective when entering the combustion chamber, reducing effective power and thus creating the need to push the accelerator further. Pushing the accelerator further opens increases airflow, thus creating more load and increasing fuel pulse width. Now, that being said, under cruise with light load, the MAF is still pulling in X amount of air, but it's now being scattered. The fuel pulse width would theoretically remain the same because it's seeing the same amount of air, but it isn't being "tuned" by the VIAS. So, wouldn't you think slightly more fuel may be entering the combustion chamber, creating more fuel consumption? I know, it's a long shot, but it all might be in my head too lol. Does anyone see where I'm going with this, or should I just give up haha. Feel free to criticize, I thought I was heading somewhere with it, but I lost my train of thought at this point....
11-22-2009, 05:35 AM
#106
Well, you lost me half way through.
Honestly, I think we're over analyzing the VIAS-delete. It seems pretty simple:
Honestly, I think we're over analyzing the VIAS-delete. It seems pretty simple:
- WOT at high RPM requires more air
- The VIAS valve gets in the way under those conditions, particularly on a modded engine (intake, spacers, exhaust).
11-22-2009, 10:14 AM
#107
11-22-2009, 03:13 PM
#108
Most ppl lose MPG a use they're staying in the throttle more reaping the benefits of thier labor/mods....I'm personally not sold on the VIAS delete kit....and I can't wait to see Scottwax's observation on the part throttle operation and MPG....
11-22-2009, 09:38 PM
#109
Throttle response is definitely better, been spinning the tires from a 15-20 mph roll when I romp on it. Temperatures have been a bit cool (which always worsens traction for me) and I also swapped out the precats and a test tube for the main cat the day after I did the VIAS block plate so it is hard to say how much of the wheel spin is due to the block plate, better exhaust flow and cooler temperatures.
Leaving a light at part throttle and just tooling around, throttle response is crisper.
11-23-2009, 05:34 AM
#110
Not for nothing, Scott, but we're all noticing crisper throttle response with the cooler temperatures. It's just about the only pleasant thing about the start of Winter. In a few weeks, it will be the new normal.
Still, everything you're observing reads as a positive testimonial to dumping the VIAS valve. Try to stay as sensitive as long as possible to the changes in behavior, and keep commenting.
Have you experienced a different engine tone at WOT?
Still, everything you're observing reads as a positive testimonial to dumping the VIAS valve. Try to stay as sensitive as long as possible to the changes in behavior, and keep commenting.
Have you experienced a different engine tone at WOT?
11-23-2009, 02:42 PM
#111
I love the vias delete. period. I would do it over and over again if I had any other vq engines.
I love the extra power that really seems to pick up as your rpms climb. If you are some ***** who just wants this to have something on thier mod list but doesnt drive hard and is going to complain about mpg then just gtfo because you dont belong here.
I love the extra power that really seems to pick up as your rpms climb. If you are some ***** who just wants this to have something on thier mod list but doesnt drive hard and is going to complain about mpg then just gtfo because you dont belong here.
11-23-2009, 05:22 PM
#112
Actually yes. I already have the GAB so there is already some intake noise. Now it sounds like a quadrajet carb when the secondaries open up. First time I got on it, the sound reminded me a Q-jet.
Listen at 16 and 36 seconds...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxhwWSDA8P4
Listen at 16 and 36 seconds...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxhwWSDA8P4
11-23-2009, 07:00 PM
#113
The sound of the good old days. Gas was cheap and tires didn't last long.
My plate is @ the post office. Didn't have time to pick it up today, hopefully tomorrow. Weather is still nice, so I should be installing it within the next couple of days.
My plate is @ the post office. Didn't have time to pick it up today, hopefully tomorrow. Weather is still nice, so I should be installing it within the next couple of days.
11-23-2009, 07:17 PM
#114
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: canby, OR
Posts: 121
I've had the block plate for about six months now. For the first month I was playing around on the throttle more than usual. By the way with the plate installed the power doesn't fade right before redline like it used to now it pulls right till it shifts (A/T). I did however see worse mileage. Now that I'm not playing with it as much I've seen my mpg's go back to pre plate numbers.
11-23-2009, 08:40 PM
#115
11-23-2009, 09:21 PM
#116
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: canby, OR
Posts: 121
Makes a big difference now that I've got the TransGo installed. Nothing like a loss of power at that crucial point and seeing the fender next to you gain half a car cause you lost power and your tranny takes so long to shift you can make a sandwich before it hits the next gear.
11-23-2009, 10:13 PM
#117
Also realize, that dyno's are conducted under WOT, which means airflow velocity would be at it's highest (fully open throttle plate allowing the most airflow it can). Under cruise, it's a light load, low throttle opening. I think the reason the fuel mileage went down is because there's no VIAS to help TUNE the airflow. I'm having a hard time explaining it but try to follow along. Seeing as how the air has more places to go, it'd become more scattered, causing it to be less effective when entering the combustion chamber, reducing effective power and thus creating the need to push the accelerator further. Pushing the accelerator further opens increases airflow, thus creating more load and increasing fuel pulse width. Now, that being said, under cruise with light load, the MAF is still pulling in X amount of air, but it's now being scattered. The fuel pulse width would theoretically remain the same because it's seeing the same amount of air, but it isn't being "tuned" by the VIAS. So, wouldn't you think slightly more fuel may be entering the combustion chamber, creating more fuel consumption? I know, it's a long shot, but it all might be in my head too lol. Does anyone see where I'm going with this, or should I just give up haha. Feel free to criticize, I thought I was heading somewhere with it, but I lost my train of thought at this point....
11-24-2009, 05:13 PM
#119
I love the vias delete. period. I would do it over and over again if I had any other vq engines.
I love the extra power that really seems to pick up as your rpms climb. If you are some ***** who just wants this to have something on thier mod list but doesnt drive hard and is going to complain about mpg then just gtfo because you dont belong here.
I love the extra power that really seems to pick up as your rpms climb. If you are some ***** who just wants this to have something on thier mod list but doesnt drive hard and is going to complain about mpg then just gtfo because you dont belong here.
Thanks to Rochester for starting a very informative thread, and for all those with constructive comments!
11-24-2009, 06:59 PM
#120
Group hug, guys.
Until then, it's something to look forward to when the snow tires come off.