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The 5th Gen Piggyback/Tuning Thread

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The 5th Gen Piggyback/Tuning Thread

Old 05-07-2010, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rochester View Post
Moncef just went up a couple notches on my respect meter. (Which isn't exactly a coveted measurement, but it's all I got.) My point being... this is impressive.

I've been running the Cattman y-pipe and catback with a short-ram for a few years now, without issue. Last fall I installed Phenolic spacers, and since that time I've had some pinging creeping up on me. My first response to this problem was to do an upper-engine cleaning (a BG Products service.) It reduced the pinging for about half a year, but it's been coming back lately.

I got to thinking: I think I need a tune now. Which led me to consider a piggyback. My conundrum is that I'm much less inclined to get down into the weeds of automotive engineering.

So... based on all that and my lack of fine-tuning interest, do you think it's a reasonable course of action to simply get the full TS flash?
Pinging you say? Like, similar to when you use low octane fuel or have too much ignition timing? Is this happening at part throttle/cruise or WOT?
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:39 PM
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After getting to temp, light pinging leading up to 1200. Not at idle. Never above 1200, and certainly not at WOT. Only down low.

While I don't have headers, or a 3" exhaust, I do have spacers, y-pipe, catback, crank pulley, and SRI... (you've seen my sig.) All of which is making me think I need a tune. And if that's the case, I'm leaning towards a TS flash because I don't want to tweak, I just want it to run well. Which it totally does, except for this pinging.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rochester View Post
After getting to temp, light pinging leading up to 1200. Not at idle. Never above 1200, and certainly not at WOT. Only down low.

While I don't have headers, or a 3" exhaust, I do have spacers, y-pipe, catback, crank pulley, and SRI... (you've seen my sig.) All of which is making me think I need a tune. And if that's the case, I'm leaning towards a TS flash because I don't want to tweak, I just want it to run well. Which it totally does, except for this pinging.
My only concern is that the TS flash may not solve the problem. It will make the car faster (due to remapped ignition timing at WOT and rev limiter, etc) but I'm not really sure where the pinging is coming from
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:12 PM
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Rochester... You sure what you're experiencing is pinging and not something else? I'm not calling BS but i've never seen a maxima do this before with just bolt-ons.

I'm assuming it's audible, what does it dound like?
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33 View Post
My only concern is that the TS flash may not solve the problem. It will make the car faster (due to remapped ignition timing at WOT and rev limiter, etc) but I'm not really sure where the pinging is coming from
True, and true. The TS flash would be a positive mod. Whether it addresses the pinging or not... anybody's guess. Today I added a bottle of Lucas Octane Boost to a full take of 93, to see if the added retardant affects the situation.

But this thread is about tuning, and it's a good thread. So on topic: could minor low-end pinging be symptomatic of a setup in need of a tune?

Originally Posted by essential1 View Post
Rochester... You sure what you're experiencing is pinging and not something else? I'm not calling BS but i've never seen a maxima do this before with just bolt-ons.

I'm assuming it's audible, what does it dound like?
Like a coffee can under the hood, half filled with bolts, and shaken once or twice for the time it takes to go from idle to 1200.

Last year, I was losing oil because of a leaking rear valve cover, I was down a quart below the low mark. If you've ever driven like that without knowing you were low on oil, that's the noise. (Although it was pretty bad when that happened. Topped the oil, and all was well.)

Moncef, again, I'm sorry we're going OT now.

Last edited by NmexMAX; 03-15-2011 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Rochester View Post
Like a coffee can under the hood, half filled with bolts, and shaken once or twice for the time it takes to go from idle to 1200.

Last year, I was losing oil because of a leaking rear valve cover, I was down a quart below the low mark. If you've ever driven like that without knowing you were low on oil, that's the noise. (Although it was pretty bad when that happened. Topped the oil, and all was well.)

Moncef, again, I'm sorry we're going OT now.
Yup, that sounds like it.

Or you can also say it sounds like a bunch of kids throwing rocks at your car. right? lol
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:50 AM
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Alright thanks to Rochester turning my thread into the pinging thread, this picture should bring it back on topic.



Beauty

But this thread is about tuning, and it's a good thread. So on topic: could minor low-end pinging be symptomatic of a setup in need of a tune?
Depends if the pinging is due to too much ignition timing, and the tune itself is setup to pull some timing at that load/RPM cell(s).

This has never happened with my car either. Must be that Godly DE-k
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:45 AM
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Or my VQ35. I have both 2988cc and 3498cc and my 3498 has yet to ping in 121K. Where as my 2988 used to ping like a ping machine. Keep in mind, the VQ35 has larger cooling jackets and that's why the spark plugs are longer... Just sayin...

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Old 05-08-2010, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX View Post
Or my VQ35. I have both 2988cc and 3496cc and my 3496 has yet to ping in 121K. Where as my 2988 used to ping like a ping machine. Keep in mind, the VQ35 has larger cooling jackets and that's why the spark plugs are longer... Just sayin...
Not sure where spark plugs come into the conversation here
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Old 05-08-2010, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33 View Post
Not sure where spark plugs come into the conversation here
I think cold plugs, to allow for advanced timing while retarding the ignition a notch. But I am so-o approaching the edge of my knowledge in this area, dipping into BS, and learning things I'd just as soon pass on.
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:40 AM
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Yep. Cold plugs remove more heat. The 3.5 plugs are longer to compensate for the larger cooling jackets. That's where the "L" in the plug PN comes in/means.

Cooling/timing/pinging ..

Also, the VQ35 has a higher CR, not sure if that's pro or con in this convo but .. ahh yes.


Anyway, back from splitting hairs ...

Last edited by NmexMAX; 05-08-2010 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:37 PM
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any input on a apexi neo?
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by xxpundoxx View Post
any input on a apexi neo?
Apexi Neo has the same functionality as the S/VAFC units, but it also has a color screen. Viperboy has one, you could PM him for his input.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33 View Post
Apexi Neo has the same functionality as the S/VAFC units, but it also has a color screen. Viperboy has one, you could PM him for his input.
Have we verified the # of tuning points, and if it has the same functionality as the VAFC with the 2 map overlap option? And have we also verified if it accepts larger MAF housing IN/OUT options like the SAFC?

If it has more tuning points than VAFC, and has the option like the SAFC for various IN/OUT, it could be anyone's best option in that particular arena.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX View Post
Have we verified the # of tuning points, and if it has the same functionality as the VAFC with the 2 map overlap option? And have we also verified if it accepts larger MAF housing IN/OUT options like the SAFC?

If it has more tuning points than VAFC, and has the option like the SAFC for various IN/OUT, it could be anyone's best option in that particular arena.
I might be missing something here, but I have a VAFC2 and I sure do have various IN/OUT settings for the MAF also. Mine goes from 00-15 for both IN/OUT settings.

There are a couple things on the SAFC2 which I like better though such as 2 completely different tuning maps that you can switch between on the fly. (ie: One all motor tune and one nitrous tune) You can technically do this on the VAFC2 also with the overlap function. You would just have to change the HIVTEC and LWVTEC activation points when you wanna change maps.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by essential1 View Post
I might be missing something here, but I have a VAFC2 and I sure do have various IN/OUT settings for the MAF also. Mine goes from 00-15 for both IN/OUT settings.
That was my point, we haven't found a good IN/OUT combo for 3" MAF's on the VAFC with A32/33's, since it was designed w/ Honda/Acuras in mind. Using the SAFC we go to the manual and use the Q45 output (17), and it works perfect.

So unless you know if the correct IN/OUT for running a larger MAF on A32/33's, please share, since the manual for the VAFC doesn't really elaborate on this. We've been trying to figure it out for a while now (well, the .org VAFC owners in general)
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX View Post
That was my point, we haven't found a good IN/OUT combo for 3" MAF's on the VAFC with A32/33's, since it was designed w/ Honda/Acuras in mind. Using the SAFC we go to the manual and use the Q45 output (17), and it works perfect.

So unless you know if the correct IN/OUT for running a larger MAF on A32/33's, please share, since the manual for the VAFC doesn't really elaborate on this. We've been trying to figure it out for a while now (well, the .org VAFC owners in general)
Oh. I see. I didnt know that.

So I'm assuming the in/out settings are different between the safc and vafc then. For example, lets say you set an SAFC to 4IN/9OUT, if you were to swap the SAFC out for a VAFC and try that same 4IN/9OUT, it will not work the same?

I've been thinking about swaping my vafc with someone's safc just because, I dont need the VTEC control. But since I will go EU in the future, it's not on my list of priorities.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by essential1 View Post
Oh. I see. I didnt know that.

So I'm assuming the in/out settings are different between the safc and vafc then. For example, lets say you set an SAFC to 4IN/9OUT, if you were to swap the SAFC out for a VAFC and try that same 4IN/9OUT, it will not work the same?

I've been thinking about swaping my vafc with someone's safc just because, I dont need the VTEC control. But since I will go EU in the future, it's not on my list of priorities.
That;s correct nismology found a non Engrlish version of an application chart for the VAFC and we were hard pressed to compare/figure out (since we'd be dealing w/ MAP sensors) a vehicle with similar intake sizing (no MAF housing for them obviously) that would match the dynamics/correction curve for vehicles comparable to the Maxima with a larger housing.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX View Post
That;s correct nismology found a non Engrlish version of an application chart for the VAFC and we were hard pressed to compare/figure out (since we'd be dealing w/ MAP sensors) a vehicle with similar intake sizing (no MAF housing for them obviously) that would match the dynamics/correction curve for vehicles comparable to the Maxima with a larger housing.
Well, i'm gonna make a 3" (or bigger) MAF sooner or later and i'll play around with the vafc settings to try to help out the community. I just gotta get off my lazy butt...

Well, I've got a spare MAF housing here and here's my plan.

Hack off the part that our sensor bolts up too with a hacksaw or grinder or whatever else might work. Get a section of PVC pipe 3" or bigger and drill a hole in that. JB weld the part I cut off the MAF to the PVC pipe. The only problem with testing to see if it will work is that I dont have my wideband yet. But i'll play around with the settings anyways without one for the sake of contributing to the community. If I can get it to idle properly, that will be half the battle won IMO.

By the way, the reason I will most likely go bigger than 3" is only because the ID of the factory MAF housing is not that much smaller than 3". I know my stock TB wont help that at all, but I'm most likely going with a Q45 TB for a future setup and it should compliment it nicely.

Last edited by NmexMAX; 03-15-2011 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:23 PM
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Yeah LR MAF is a good size, somewhere in the 3.25 range. The reason I removed my LR is because my intake (JWT) is only 3" at the opening, but still larger than any other Maxima (aside from Stillen) I've seen. I tried very hard to get berk to make me a custom unit, one in 3 and one in 3.25, but OMG, WTF he just didn't want to.

I could make it work using my custom 82mm pipe w/flange with a bolt pattern matching that of JWT , and then fit that onto the LR MAF housing to provide a bolt pattern for the MAF sensor itself, also 82mm, so I have the hardware, just not the time.

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Old 07-22-2010, 09:47 PM
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I didn't know what to think when I saw the Apexi in the glove box. I'm all for a little tuning, but this was a little radical. Bought the car anyway. So far, so good.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:41 PM
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Did you find a flange for the JWT?

I have some reducing to fit the OEM airbox. (from 2.75)
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX View Post
Did you find a flange for the JWT?

I have some reducing to fit the OEM airbox. (from 2.75)

I can just use a stock Nissan MAF adapter from Spectre or something, bolt it to the JWT and use a coupler.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:28 PM
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just make sure it's 3" ID.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:07 PM
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First, thanks for explaining it all. My ride has a VAFC2 in the glove box. Didn't know what to think other than, there it is. To me, it's kinda like a computer chip, but with options. Can't prove it, but I think the original builder of the car tweaked it to a dyno. Engine runs perfect down low. Still haven't nailed it yet. Finally I broke down & cycled thru the only button on the computer to see what is what. It went thru different windows both on 'monitor' & 'settings'. I was extra careful to leave 'settings' alone. After that, I rarely look at it. Anyway, we'll see how it works, but I don't see why it shouldn't last as long as the rest of the computers.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kolbpilot View Post
First, thanks for explaining it all. My ride has a VAFC2 in the glove box. Didn't know what to think other than, there it is. To me, it's kinda like a computer chip, but with options. Can't prove it, but I think the original builder of the car tweaked it to a dyno. Engine runs perfect down low. Still haven't nailed it yet. Finally I broke down & cycled thru the only button on the computer to see what is what. It went thru different windows both on 'monitor' & 'settings'. I was extra careful to leave 'settings' alone. After that, I rarely look at it. Anyway, we'll see how it works, but I don't see why it shouldn't last as long as the rest of the computers.
Obviously ur a little bit new to cars, but chances are even if u turned that Vafc up or down buy 1 I'm sure it won't do anything nor will you feel the change, the original owner might have tweeked it himself only way to find out is by dynoing,afc's are not as advance as other computer but it is good enough for tuning a N/A maxima... should last longer that ur life lol.... you can drive around and look at the numbers changing and make yourself feel special jk jk
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by essential1 View Post
I might be missing something here, but I have a VAFC2 and I sure do have various IN/OUT settings for the MAF also. Mine goes from 00-15 for both IN/OUT settings.

There are a couple things on the SAFC2 which I like better though such as 2 completely different tuning maps that you can switch between on the fly. (ie: One all motor tune and one nitrous tune) You can technically do this on the VAFC2 also with the overlap function. You would just have to change the HIVTEC and LWVTEC activation points when you wanna change maps.
Speaking of which, where should the Hvtec and Lvtec be set at??? N/A of coarse
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:33 PM
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Doesn't matter ... it depends on the resolution you're using, chcek SR20DEN's thread on it, he gives a suggestion. Check the settings against RPM and see if there are + or - percentages.
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Old 07-24-2010, 06:17 PM
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Not new to cars at all, just I am always wary when cars have been fooled with. I wanted a reliable work car, but took the chance anyway when I bought it. It had a lot of upgrade pieces on it that I agreed with. I see that the '00 intake swap was a popular thing back in the day. Topped off with the Apexi. All very cool when done right. The middleman owner I bought it from mentioned dyno hp, so I figure the tweaking was done there also. Car has run normal. Thanks for all the info.
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:34 PM
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Gonna bump this up to try to get an answer to a question burning in my mind that I havent been able to find a deffenite answer for.

Why can't the Standard Emanage (Most know as the Emanage Blue or EB) extend the rev limiter on our cars? From reading the writeup on VQpower over and over for the EU, I pretty much understand how this works with the EU.

In a nutshell, the factory ECU just cuts most of the fuel at 6500rpm. Droping injector pulse width down to around 0.6 1.2 ms from about 12.2 ms. We just have to maintain that pulse width of 12.2ms through, and after the factory fuel cut. The stock ECU actually continues feeding ignition signals though so that part is out of the way.

If i'm not mistaken, the EB also does give you the option of using the optional injector harness and tuning via altering the injector pulse width (vs MAF signal) just like the EU. If this statement is correct, why cant the EB raise the rev limit on our cars?

Someone let me know what i'm missing please...
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:54 AM
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Seems to me like you should be able to bump the limiter on a Blue as long as you can change injector pulse. I say you buy one and try it.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MoncefA33 View Post
Seems to me like you should be able to bump the limiter on a Blue as long as you can change injector pulse. I say you buy one and try it.
I've got 2 EB local to me already installed on maximas. One is turbo and one is NA. The NA one doesnt have the injector harness installed (if i'm not mistaken) but is built to handle high revs. (car was bought this way) And I dont wanna blow up the boosted one. lol He has his own tuner anyways, but has no intention of extending the rev limit.

Moncef, is it possible to download the EB software without the CD? I see on the greddy site, you can download the update, but I dont see the software itself.

After my wideband is installed, i'll sell my vafc and get an EB.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:29 AM
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EB & EU software here. http://revspec.com/Ultimate.htm
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:45 PM
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how did u got it to 7k rpm incredible!, where did u buy the tunning product?
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:38 PM
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With the e-Manage Ultimate, you have to add a bunch of fuel right around the stock fuel cut (6500) and then add fuel up to your desired rev limit, and then tune for AFR. And then go to the IGN menu in "Vehicle Parameters" and set your IGN cut to your limit.

I bought the e-Ultimate used here on the .Org.

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Old 09-05-2010, 04:40 PM
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:57 AM
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Does anyone know anything about Innovate's OT-1? http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=2

I got a good deal on an LC-1 and would like the ability to log RPM with it. I know that Innovate has the SSI-4 to add RPM but the OT-1 offers much more. Simple OBDII interface and a code reader to boot.

Thanks
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:41 PM
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Alright so I got my Wideband in and street tuned with my VAFC. I used Tedo's settings. I noticed however that I could never get the Narrow setting right. I never got consistent readings. I changed the throttle points to 1% / 80% and now it works perfect.
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Old 09-20-2010, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by McSteve View Post
Alright so I got my Wideband in and street tuned with my VAFC. I used Tedo's settings. I noticed however that I could never get the Narrow setting right. I never got consistent readings. I changed the throttle points to 1% / 80% and now it works perfect.
I'm about to get my WB to go with my VAFC... how did street tuning go? Can you tell a difference in how the car feels/drives? Power gains?

Oh, and what were Tedo's settings?

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Old 09-20-2010, 08:24 PM
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@Jowo9

Definitively can feel a difference.
The settings were

SETTING:
LVT Wide & Narrow
Ne1: 1000rpm
Ne2: 1500rpm
Ne3: 1900rpm
Ne4: 2300rpm
Ne5: 2600rpm
Ne6: 2800rpm
Ne7: 3000rpm
Ne8: 3200rpm
Ne9: 3400rpm
Ne10: 3600rpm
Ne11: 3800rpm
Ne12: 4100rpm

HVT Wide & Narrow
Ne1: 4200rpm
Ne2: 4400rpm
Ne3: 4600rpm
Ne4: 4800rpm
Ne5: 5000rpm
Ne6: 5200rpm
Ne7: 5400rpm
Ne8: 5600rpm
Ne9: 5800rpm
Ne10: 6000rpm
Ne11: 6200rpm
Ne12: 6400rpm

V/T Cont
L->H: 4100rpm
H->L: 4000rpm

V/T Unmt
Hi<<L: +10%
Lo<<H: +10%

Throttle
Narrow: 10%
Wide: 40%

ETC:
Sensor No.
IN - 01 OUT - 04

Car Sel:
Cyl - 6 , Thr - /, V/T - 1

Disp Scl:
Pr:
Ne: 7000rpm
Cr: +-3%

Warning Set
Prw: OFF
RevW: 6500rpm

But as mentioned above I would change the throttle points to 1% / 80%.

Anyone has any other suggestions btw?
McSteve is offline  

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