Cattman 3" Catback Exhaust - Order Here!
01-29-2010, 01:56 PM
#1
Play with my balls
Thread Starter
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,542
Cattman 3" Catback Exhaust - Order Here!
I'm starting this thread fresh for any newcomers that would be interested in purchasing this system in order to get the 2nd batch of these into production. After we have a total of 7 people, the downtime should be an average of 4 weeks to get this produced and shipped to you.
At the moment we have 5 participants including myself. We need 2 more to get this ball rolling. Please keep in mind that these are very rare at the moment, and your chance to get in on this group deal is far and few in between (months if not over a year).
Below I have posted some links regarding past experiences, some pictures, and sound clips of the exact catback system that you will be receiving. I've noticed that this is a must for members on here to be convinced in purchasing a new product when it comes out, so this thread is a one stop shop for all your resource needs regarding this.
Pricing:
Cattman 3” Catback Exhaust for 00-03 Maxima and 00-04 I30/I35 (7 backorders needed to begin production)
$659.99 w/o a resonator (not needed for turbos, but recommended for n/a cars)
$739.99 with a 22” resonator.
Contact Information to get in this group deal:
Brian C Catts, Cattman Performance
Tucson, Arizona
520.575.6195 for ?s and 800.759.9920 to order
bcatts@cattman.com
www.cattman.com
Note:
There is a good chance that after a certain time limit, I will pull the trigger myself and purchase the remaining units required to get this ball rolling into production, and resell them here as units in hand. However, if this occurs the price will not be as attractive as this groupbuy, since this particular deal is of course at a discounted rate.
Past Resources:
At the moment we have 5 participants including myself. We need 2 more to get this ball rolling. Please keep in mind that these are very rare at the moment, and your chance to get in on this group deal is far and few in between (months if not over a year).
Below I have posted some links regarding past experiences, some pictures, and sound clips of the exact catback system that you will be receiving. I've noticed that this is a must for members on here to be convinced in purchasing a new product when it comes out, so this thread is a one stop shop for all your resource needs regarding this.
Pricing:
Cattman 3” Catback Exhaust for 00-03 Maxima and 00-04 I30/I35 (7 backorders needed to begin production)
$659.99 w/o a resonator (not needed for turbos, but recommended for n/a cars)
$739.99 with a 22” resonator.
Contact Information to get in this group deal:
Brian C Catts, Cattman Performance
Tucson, Arizona
520.575.6195 for ?s and 800.759.9920 to order
bcatts@cattman.com
www.cattman.com
Note:
There is a good chance that after a certain time limit, I will pull the trigger myself and purchase the remaining units required to get this ball rolling into production, and resell them here as units in hand. However, if this occurs the price will not be as attractive as this groupbuy, since this particular deal is of course at a discounted rate.
Past Resources:
Originally Posted by wyche89
yeah... so it aparently makes a good amount of power.. im hoping my custom setup makes similar power.. i dont see and reason why it shouldn't.. it's gonna be 3" mandrel bent all perforated cores.. i'm getting it put in tomorrow.. i know you were saying yours was really loud, and i'm hoping that the longer resonator will keep the noise to a low level with my headers.. i might need a 22" or even a 24" muffler too on top of the 30" resonator.. i don't know, but we'll see
i'm surprised cattman hasn't posted any dynos for the gains that the 3" exhaust makes... merlyn, yours made at least 20hp over stock right?
EDIT: my bad, i was just reading over some previous posts, and I came accross the graphs:
Horsepower:
Torque:
Now, the blue line is a run with the 2.5" catback, and the other colors are the 3 runs with the 3" catback right?
i'm surprised cattman hasn't posted any dynos for the gains that the 3" exhaust makes... merlyn, yours made at least 20hp over stock right?
EDIT: my bad, i was just reading over some previous posts, and I came accross the graphs:
Horsepower:
Torque:
Now, the blue line is a run with the 2.5" catback, and the other colors are the 3 runs with the 3" catback right?
Originally Posted by Cattman
Sorry for not participating in this thread till now. Without boring everyone to tears, I'll simply note that this has been a very busy Spring season for me (part Cattman, part some other things that are required for survival) and unfortunately I haven't been able to herd a group of "soon" projects very effectively (primarily this 3" 5th gen catback and resurrecting three y-pipes for the 95-03 Max). OTOH, we've gotten a few new parts into production too.
Anyway, I've scanned the thread and will touch on a few topics that have been raised. A few guys have done a great job of answering questions that have come up, which I really appreciate.
First, the fundamental availability of this 3" system...
There's always been some interest in this system, but it has been very difficult to translate into the number of backorders we need to initiate production. To the extent that this is anyone's "fault", I accept blame because I should have been more active in organizing interest.
After sending out an email last week to everyone on a waiting list or had placed backorders, I only have two confirmed backorders, so let me be clear - enthusiasm and/or contributing to one of the 3" catback threads isn't enough, all that really counts is the number of backorders we're holding.
I'll repeat that do not require full payment in advance for backorders, but I am thinking about beginning to require a 10% deposit at the time we give the production order (typically 3-4 weeks before the parts are complete) because we've seen a sharp increase in the # of people who are not serious about backorders and cancel once the production is ready and we need to charge the CCs. I will emphasize that we would not collect any deposits until the minimum number of orders were already received and we trigger the production order.
I'll need a total of 7 orders to make this work. Please go ahead with the list in this thread, because its a good way to stimulate interest, but everyone on the list needs to also place a backorder. [Since I don't take down screen names when an order is placed, I'm not sure which screen names on the list correspond with the real names on the backorders.]
Now, I'll answer these questions/topics that have come up since March in this thread, in no particularl order:
1. As long as we have the minimum orders in hand, sure, we'd be glad to sell just a b-pipe, or just a muffler. Why not?
2. On the topic of custom exhausts... I'll simply say that we hear about and see horrific "custom" exhaust solutions every day. About 98% of all local exhaust shops lack the skills and/or equipment to do this properly or competantly. Sorry if I bruise any egos here, but sloppy one-piece (welded continuously, without flanges, from where they hacked off the y-pipe or cat flange and everything is welded together back to the muffler), aluminized steel tubing exhaust parts are for chumps. That kind of butchery isn't a good deal at any price.
Stainless steel catbacks can only be created by using a mandrel bender or custom-fabricating by welding together cut s/s bends. True mandrel benders are almost unheard of in local exhaust shops because the equipment is very expensive (simple benders start at about $100,000), they take up a large amount of floor space, and they can't utilize the equipment often enough to justify the purchase (that's why mandrel benders are typically found in exhaust production facilities, not shops that actually work on cars).
And yes, a good quality exhaust part must be made from stainless steel tubing (or ceramic-coated mild steel tubing, but it won't last as long and you'll end up paying about the same as s/s) to get optimal performance results. Stainless is not just about preventing corrosion, it adds horsepower due to it superior thermal containment properties. Skillful welding is critical too, and not just for strength and avoiding leaks - poor welding leaves a lot of material you can't see on the interior of the tubing, which can really muck up the exhaust flow, and cost power.
You'll occasionally run across small, primitive (old) mandrel benders in exhaust shops, but they typically lack the brass dies for stainless steel (very expensive and a different one is required for every tubing size), and they're not automated enough for most employees to use them to create an accurate part. Plus, most the old machines were not designed to mandrel bend stainless at all. With the right dies, an effective mandrel bender, and the talent to operate it, nothing could be easier - you just won't find this combination of assets in most cities, much less local exhaust shops.
Custom fitting and TIG-welding cut s/s bends is a true art form, and since the talent is so rare, the process so timestaking, and the cut bends so incredibly expensive, then YES, a $1000 price tag would be about right for a catback custom made from cut s/s bends. If its much less than that, someone is cutting some corners that shouldn't be (if creating the system from cut bends). Or telling you that it will be mandrel bent, but ends up being crush bent because they like the talent, dies, or whatever to actually use the machine. I'll also note that stainless steel doesn't like being crush bent on crush benders, which I suppose is the most fundamental reason that typical local shop don't do stainless steel work.
3. As some have noted, a 3" system will be louder than a smaller tube system, all other things (like resonator and muffler) being equal. The other sound component is that the pitch will be significantly lower due to the larger tubing size. You can load it up with a 30" truck resonator and larger muffler, but at some point this works against performance, particularly if the inside tube of the resonator has holes that are too large or, worst of all, little louvers at each hole that intrude into the exhaust stream (a real performance killer). Forget any muffler that isn't a straight-through design.
4. Some have asked why we (Cattman) haven't done some thorough dyno testing of this part, and the reason for that goes back to its genesis. There is only one 3" Cattman catback out there for the 00-03 Maxima, and that was originally made for a turbo-equipped car (we didn't make more because all of the apparent interest at that time evaporated - sound familiar?). We had no reason to test it, and even if we had, the results would be irrelevant for n/a engines. All the current interest behind this part comes from the second owner of the 3" prototype, and the dyno results he got (also posted in this thread) on a n/a VQ35DE.
5. Since the rear valance is notched for a dual tip muffler, the muffler on this system will also be dual tip.
I guess that's about it. Now that I've posted to this thread, I'll keep a better eye on it, and try to answer questions as they arise. Bottom line is that if you want this part, place an order for it.
Brian
Anyway, I've scanned the thread and will touch on a few topics that have been raised. A few guys have done a great job of answering questions that have come up, which I really appreciate.
First, the fundamental availability of this 3" system...
There's always been some interest in this system, but it has been very difficult to translate into the number of backorders we need to initiate production. To the extent that this is anyone's "fault", I accept blame because I should have been more active in organizing interest.
After sending out an email last week to everyone on a waiting list or had placed backorders, I only have two confirmed backorders, so let me be clear - enthusiasm and/or contributing to one of the 3" catback threads isn't enough, all that really counts is the number of backorders we're holding.
I'll repeat that do not require full payment in advance for backorders, but I am thinking about beginning to require a 10% deposit at the time we give the production order (typically 3-4 weeks before the parts are complete) because we've seen a sharp increase in the # of people who are not serious about backorders and cancel once the production is ready and we need to charge the CCs. I will emphasize that we would not collect any deposits until the minimum number of orders were already received and we trigger the production order.
I'll need a total of 7 orders to make this work. Please go ahead with the list in this thread, because its a good way to stimulate interest, but everyone on the list needs to also place a backorder. [Since I don't take down screen names when an order is placed, I'm not sure which screen names on the list correspond with the real names on the backorders.]
Now, I'll answer these questions/topics that have come up since March in this thread, in no particularl order:
1. As long as we have the minimum orders in hand, sure, we'd be glad to sell just a b-pipe, or just a muffler. Why not?
2. On the topic of custom exhausts... I'll simply say that we hear about and see horrific "custom" exhaust solutions every day. About 98% of all local exhaust shops lack the skills and/or equipment to do this properly or competantly. Sorry if I bruise any egos here, but sloppy one-piece (welded continuously, without flanges, from where they hacked off the y-pipe or cat flange and everything is welded together back to the muffler), aluminized steel tubing exhaust parts are for chumps. That kind of butchery isn't a good deal at any price.
Stainless steel catbacks can only be created by using a mandrel bender or custom-fabricating by welding together cut s/s bends. True mandrel benders are almost unheard of in local exhaust shops because the equipment is very expensive (simple benders start at about $100,000), they take up a large amount of floor space, and they can't utilize the equipment often enough to justify the purchase (that's why mandrel benders are typically found in exhaust production facilities, not shops that actually work on cars).
And yes, a good quality exhaust part must be made from stainless steel tubing (or ceramic-coated mild steel tubing, but it won't last as long and you'll end up paying about the same as s/s) to get optimal performance results. Stainless is not just about preventing corrosion, it adds horsepower due to it superior thermal containment properties. Skillful welding is critical too, and not just for strength and avoiding leaks - poor welding leaves a lot of material you can't see on the interior of the tubing, which can really muck up the exhaust flow, and cost power.
You'll occasionally run across small, primitive (old) mandrel benders in exhaust shops, but they typically lack the brass dies for stainless steel (very expensive and a different one is required for every tubing size), and they're not automated enough for most employees to use them to create an accurate part. Plus, most the old machines were not designed to mandrel bend stainless at all. With the right dies, an effective mandrel bender, and the talent to operate it, nothing could be easier - you just won't find this combination of assets in most cities, much less local exhaust shops.
Custom fitting and TIG-welding cut s/s bends is a true art form, and since the talent is so rare, the process so timestaking, and the cut bends so incredibly expensive, then YES, a $1000 price tag would be about right for a catback custom made from cut s/s bends. If its much less than that, someone is cutting some corners that shouldn't be (if creating the system from cut bends). Or telling you that it will be mandrel bent, but ends up being crush bent because they like the talent, dies, or whatever to actually use the machine. I'll also note that stainless steel doesn't like being crush bent on crush benders, which I suppose is the most fundamental reason that typical local shop don't do stainless steel work.
3. As some have noted, a 3" system will be louder than a smaller tube system, all other things (like resonator and muffler) being equal. The other sound component is that the pitch will be significantly lower due to the larger tubing size. You can load it up with a 30" truck resonator and larger muffler, but at some point this works against performance, particularly if the inside tube of the resonator has holes that are too large or, worst of all, little louvers at each hole that intrude into the exhaust stream (a real performance killer). Forget any muffler that isn't a straight-through design.
4. Some have asked why we (Cattman) haven't done some thorough dyno testing of this part, and the reason for that goes back to its genesis. There is only one 3" Cattman catback out there for the 00-03 Maxima, and that was originally made for a turbo-equipped car (we didn't make more because all of the apparent interest at that time evaporated - sound familiar?). We had no reason to test it, and even if we had, the results would be irrelevant for n/a engines. All the current interest behind this part comes from the second owner of the 3" prototype, and the dyno results he got (also posted in this thread) on a n/a VQ35DE.
5. Since the rear valance is notched for a dual tip muffler, the muffler on this system will also be dual tip.
I guess that's about it. Now that I've posted to this thread, I'll keep a better eye on it, and try to answer questions as they arise. Bottom line is that if you want this part, place an order for it.
Brian
01-29-2010, 03:01 PM
#8
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (24)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sagamore Beach, MA
Posts: 694
Guys, I had this exhaust on my car and it is worth every penny. Sure you could get a custom made 3", but there is no way it will be even close to this exhaust. You will not be dissapointed in this.
01-29-2010, 03:31 PM
#9
I hadn't looked at those dyno runs for a while, and they are impressive. I'm not really bragging because we didn't push the concept of this 3" catback, it was made solely in response to the interest that was generated by these graphs (dynos of a one-off 3" system we'd made a few years back).
What I find most interesting about the dynos are the peak and decline after 5600-5700 rpms. My best guess would be that opening up the exhaust makes power up to that point, but then the curve hits a wall due to limitations on the intake side. Of course forced air would solve that, but a nice set of JWT cams should allow that slope to keep on going up to redline instead of falling off (and Technosquare can raise the redline).
So, I have to put it out there... I think the recipe for supreme normally-aspirated bliss is the Cattman 3" Catback + JWT S2 Cams! And Cattman headers/y-pipe too, of course.
Brian
What I find most interesting about the dynos are the peak and decline after 5600-5700 rpms. My best guess would be that opening up the exhaust makes power up to that point, but then the curve hits a wall due to limitations on the intake side. Of course forced air would solve that, but a nice set of JWT cams should allow that slope to keep on going up to redline instead of falling off (and Technosquare can raise the redline).
So, I have to put it out there... I think the recipe for supreme normally-aspirated bliss is the Cattman 3" Catback + JWT S2 Cams! And Cattman headers/y-pipe too, of course.
Brian
01-29-2010, 05:51 PM
#12
Brian
01-29-2010, 07:30 PM
#14
As much as I do being in college the price I just can't do. But not to worry cattman, you're 2.5" catback will soon be mine. I'll upgrade in a bit. Gl with the last person, I'm tempted to see how this goes with your setup paramy.
01-29-2010, 08:45 PM
#19
Play with my balls
Thread Starter
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,542
Keep in mind that Brian doesn't charge your card till they are in the stages of being shipped, so that gives anyone a month to save up. Tax time is here, so that's something to look forward to as well.
01-29-2010, 09:02 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: STATEN ISLAND NY
Posts: 546
wont a cutout make the same gains?? or no?
01-29-2010, 09:30 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: STATEN ISLAND NY
Posts: 546
^^ yea but many people say 3 inch is to big for a n/a car...but its showing for the max its gaining more hp then a 21/2 inch...but the ypipe is alredy like 2 1/4 going into a 3inch is like go to a cutout kinda lol
01-29-2010, 09:36 PM
#26
Cutout is just too much I think.
01-29-2010, 09:44 PM
#27
Its not really the same thing. The whole 2.5" being enough for N/A car was a 4 banger thing that got applied to v6s some how. 350z/G35 are doing well with 3" single exhausts.
01-29-2010, 10:26 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: STATEN ISLAND NY
Posts: 546
^^ thats very good to know...thanks guys ...wish i had 740$ to spend but i dont lol
01-29-2010, 10:35 PM
#29
Art in motion....Can anyone tell me what it's like to drive the car with a 3" at low speed? Is it peppy? Does the slightest throttle movement give you instaneous response in a linear sense? Any 3"er please.......
01-30-2010, 10:26 AM
#32
01-30-2010, 10:34 AM
#33
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: (CASA LINDA) Dallas, TX
Posts: 16
How much would shipping be?
01-30-2010, 11:33 AM
#36
you guys need a 7th person to purchase and cmax looks pretty interested if someone with a 3" could actually respawn to him you might have your group deal... just sayin..
01-30-2010, 11:51 AM
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: (CASA LINDA) Dallas, TX
Posts: 16
Hahaha, I'm very interested myself... I jus don't wanna spend another 100± bux on shipping... if we have 8 plus people wil the price go down... lol... price is ok jus asking... I guess I'll have to email brian and ask
01-30-2010, 02:31 PM
#40
Play with my balls
Thread Starter
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,542
The Law should be in here soon to respond to some of the inquires about the responsiveness regarding partial throttle and it's increase in the "butt dyno" during that particular operation.
In regards to the shipping question, you are in TX and so is Cattman. To give you an accurate guesstimate on shipping, coming from the west coast to my location, Charlotte, NC the shipping is around $45, so I would only imagine it to be pennies compared to that since you're in the same state.
Lastly, in response to if the price decreases if there is more interested then the required 7? I'm sure it's safe to say that the reduction in price would probably not occur with a minimal increase in numbers. The number 7 is only the magic number that is required to get this catback into production. Anything above and beyond that is only icing on the cake and to allow that many more people to reap the rewards of this rare product.
I can't speak for Brian to offer anymore of a discount if numbers were to reach above say 20 or so, but it would be nice to see these orders to get filled above that figure.
Directed at no one in particular, however I hear all the time about members of this forum complaining about the lack of aftermarket support to produce more performance oriented parts for our Maximas. Well the product is here, the time is now, so don't be part of the statistic that regrets that they didn't get in on a superior product, and place your order today!
In regards to the shipping question, you are in TX and so is Cattman. To give you an accurate guesstimate on shipping, coming from the west coast to my location, Charlotte, NC the shipping is around $45, so I would only imagine it to be pennies compared to that since you're in the same state.
Lastly, in response to if the price decreases if there is more interested then the required 7? I'm sure it's safe to say that the reduction in price would probably not occur with a minimal increase in numbers. The number 7 is only the magic number that is required to get this catback into production. Anything above and beyond that is only icing on the cake and to allow that many more people to reap the rewards of this rare product.
I can't speak for Brian to offer anymore of a discount if numbers were to reach above say 20 or so, but it would be nice to see these orders to get filled above that figure.
Directed at no one in particular, however I hear all the time about members of this forum complaining about the lack of aftermarket support to produce more performance oriented parts for our Maximas. Well the product is here, the time is now, so don't be part of the statistic that regrets that they didn't get in on a superior product, and place your order today!