Well, I see your point on the IACV. I didnt know it worked like that. And I'm glad its working.

I had cleared the codes so yes, I assume there is a new one. Or maybe just the old o2 sensor info popping back up. I don't have an OBD-II tester, so I will have to wait until later today to go rent it again. At that point I will pull the codes and report back what I find.

Are we at the end? Is there anything else it could be? Obviously, the car runs, and it ran strongly until the temp came up. That explains why it shuts right off once it fails the first time.

 

I had a very similar problem on my old '92 Maxima SE with the VE30DE engine. I was in the process of trying to fix the problem when my wife totaled the car. My problem was the car would suddenly just turn off. This was spooky when I was on the highway doing 80 in heavy traffic! This was a known problem on the 92-94 SE's, but I've not heard of it happening on 5.5 gens.

 

Well, I pulled the codes again, and it passed; no codes. Even the o2 sensors didnt show up (I tested it three times; twice before I started it, and once after). Then I tried to start it. Straight turning the key got me to just turning over, no starting. Then I held the pedal down and it started, but not like before. It wouldnt keep running without me feathering the gas constantly. Since it has been 3+ hours since it last ran, I don't think we can call it a temperature problem affecting the cam or crankshaft position sensors, right? My temp gauge was completely buried at zero even while running for that 30-45 seconds that I kept it on; it didnt rise at all so there was no residual heat there to read. Now I'm confused because before it ran strong until up to temp, now it won't even keep running right after starting. What do I do now?

 

I think, that's exactly your case: http://forums.maxima.org/6th-generat...-no-codes.html

Basically, you have to replace camshaft position sensors and because you didn't pull any DTC you have to replace both. I just realized you're talking about 2k2 model while I was thinking about 2k1 all this time.

 

No, you were right, it is an 01. I only show one cam shaft position sensor. Wonder if I should start there? But like I said, it was a cold start when I started it last night (it had been hours since I last started it), so not exactly the same as this other thread. Still think I should start there?

 

Then you have only 1 to replace and it's in front of the engine held by 1 10 mm bolt and having 1 connector. Should be like 10 min job. FSM suggests to clean the engine grounds first so I'd probably started there as they're also easily accessible.

I can't tell you what to do but if it was my car I would go ahead and just replace it. In the worst case I'd be out $80 bucks (buy from the dealer). The important fact for me in the other thread was that this sensor can lead to ECU shutting down the engine while still not storing any codes. This sounds bizarre to me as the very same ECU is involved but that's seems to be a fact.

Please disconnect the battery while doing this so ECU wouldn't get more confused when you start pulling grounds/connector.

 

You all know a coil pack can do that too...right?

 

If that's true, how do you test a coil pack? I'm gonna go pick up the cam pos sensor since they only have one at the store.

 

Coil pack is not capable of preventing car from starting or cutting off the engine as there are 5 more cylinders left working.

Over 10 years, I replaced all 6 one by one so I know your case is not that. It is not possible to test a coil pack itself but it is easy to identify which one when it is not working by disconnecting one at a time. Still not relevant to your case.

 

I installed a brand new cam position sensor and it still died once it got up to idle RPM and temp. I am completely stumped. Got any more ideas on what it could be? This time it started right up strong without needing to push the gas pedal down.

 

That sucks, sorry. Is there a way for you to check Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor when engine is cold and warmed up? This is not the sensor you see on the dashboard but that's the one ECU uses to sense the engine temperature.

 

The light on the dash is for overall temp, right? The sensor would be specifically for coolant temp, if I understand you correctly. How would I test it? Of course, I have to find it first.

 

I meant temp gauge in the cluster - that also shows engine temp but uses different sensor. As a result ECU can see completely different temp from what you see on the dash gauge.

If you take a look at p175-177 of EC section in FSM you should see everything you need to check the resistance of this sensor, including location. BTW, the lowest point of the temp gauge corresponds not to 0C but somewhere around +60C - you usually don't see it above '0' after staying overnight in summer.

 

I dont have whatever the FSM is, I have a Haynes manual. So I won't be able to test because I don't have the instructions. I did locate the temperature sending unit and the coolant temp sensor. Looks like the sending unit corresponds to the dash gauge, and the temp sensor is what the ECU sees. The dash gauge seems to be as it usually is, so I don't imagine the sending unit is an issue, plus it doesnt feed the ECU. The temp sensor could be an issue. My manual only discusses the sending unit and is quiet on the temp sensor as far as testing it.

Could there be a problem with the throttle position sensor? I assume that from a cold start, as the RPM lowers and the engine heats up, the throttle closes proportionately, right? I mean, that must be what lowers the RPM I'm guessing. We are about out of sensors...

Thanks for all your help. I really do appreciate it. Let me know what you think.

 

FSM is Factory Service Manual. There was a link around here on the site to download from, it's a useful thing.

Idle is controlled by IACV - Idle Air Control Valve. This is basically step motor controlled by ECU. ECU uses coolant temperature sensor (CTS) to adjust idle speed through IACV. IACV malfunction usually throws a code. It also often fries the ECU. Not the entire ECU but output interface chip controlling the step motor, still deadly problem for most of the owners. Since your idle speed was declining in a reasonable fashion and you didn't read any IACV codes I concluded the IACV/chip are still OK.

Theoretically if CTS is mulfunctioning it could confuse ECU and might affect the idle. This is pure speculation on my account. I know from experience that disconnecting CTS on 93 Max made ECU to shut down the engine within seconds. It recorded the code though while in your case you don't see any (O2 related don't count IMO).

Throttle Position Sensor idea is interesting but it would also supposed to throw a code. In any event it is easy to check having multimeter - worth a try. Please download FSM and see what resistance values it is supposed to have.

If you'll have access to multimeter please check the battery voltage/connectors as well. This is mostly 'just in case' as you didn't mention any power- related symptoms.

BTW, posts #25, #29, #32 and some others in this very thread as well as Nissan's recall are calling for replacement of both crank- and camshaft sensors. This would be my next step (replacing crankshaft sensor) if it was my car if other checks from above wouldn't reveal any other problem.

 

I guess my next play will be to try to figure out how to test the coolant temp sensor. Looks like it screws into the outgoing water feed from the radiator. I haven't ever done back probing before, but I do have a multimeter, and I guess its time to get acquainted with it. If its mechanical I'm fine; as soon as I step into electrical/sensorland I am out of my element. Hopefully I can find the FSM. Shoot me the link if you come across it. After that, I guess we will get into the crankshaft position sensors. Or should I try the throttle pos sens first? It has to be easier than getting to the two crankshaft sensors. Thanks.

 

FSM: check your PM and let me know if it doesn't work

It's actually hose to the radiator (the upper one).

You can measure resistance of both sensors on the car if your multimeter probes can reach the contacts. Be careful to not to damage the sensor connector contacts- touch, but don't push . Please disconnect the battery before doing the measurements otherwise ECU might notice. Not a big deal but you'd have to rent code scanner again to clear them.

You're right, if CTS & TPS and battery are fine then only crankshaft position sensors left.

 

Thanks for the PM; I haven't had a chance to use it yet. Guess what? I slipped the cam shaft sensor back by the guy at Auto Zone and got it returned. Of course I cleaned it real well and got the oil off of it. Anyway, so far today:
Couldnt get the sensor off of the air intake tube so had to remove the battery and set the tube off to the side. Then couldnt access the CTS because the sending unit sensor and tranny check pipe were in the way. Finally was able to get the sending unit removed and turned the tranny pipe out of the way to get clear access. Proceeded to break the connector tab on the sensor, so I'm hoping it will stay together without it and removed the CTS. Its fairly corroded, over I would say about 1/4 of the length of the brass. The guy at NAPA gave me the sending unit sensor even after me reminding him that there are two and I wanted the coolant sensor. Anyway, I now have it dismantled and need to go get the right part. The sending unit was only $10 so I figure I will just keep it. I might pick up the TPS while there as well. Just thought I would update you and give you a laugh. Think I can somehow epoxy or something that connector? I really don't want to have to splice in a new one, and there is virtually no wire to work with anyway. Let me know. Thanks.

 

CTS didn't do it. Started and immediately stopped. It didn't keep running on its own at all. Now I'm wondering if its an RPM/temp problem at all?Moving on to TPS tomorrow, out of time for today.

 

I don't know - I put the one I broke on my 93 Max back without doing anything about it until year later I came across replacement and spliced the new connector in. Never had a problem while broken one was in place. It was tight to begin with so I didn't worry too much.

Decision to buy TPS depends on your budget otherwise if checking its resistance with multimeter doesn't reveal any 'broken' spots throughout throttle range I wouldn't bother buying it. The same goes for CTS - if it has resistance within specs at different temperatures then I'd leave it alone as well.

You'd need money for crankshaft position sensors instead, ~$100 for both I guess.

 

My stumped condition continues. Tonight I installed a new throttle position sensor. It started right up real strong, ran for 8 + mins and got down to about 700 rpm. The temp came up as usual, it idled for a bit longer then dropped to 500 rpm, then under 500 and then stalled. Again it would not start back up after it stalled out.

So far we think the IACV is fine, I changed out the cam pos sensor, coolant temp sensor and throttle pos sensor. I don't see how the ECU could be compromised because everything seems to work up to a point. Is there anything else I'm missing other that the crank pos sensors? Someone today asked me about EGR sensors. I can't imagine anything there actually stalling the car. Someone else suggested that maybe once the fuel pump heats up it is shutting down. Could it get that hot? And I now see also the pattern of not being able to start it again after it stalls, which makes me think temp is an issue all the more. I also still can't see the connection between heat and the crank pos sensors. I loath the idea, but I'm gonna have to tow it tomorrow if I can't come up with something else to check or do. What do you think?

 

You're wrong son...I have had this happen. And I've been playing with Maxs for a lot longer than 10yrs infact I had a 4th gen for 11yrs. And I'm only counting one.

 

Test the sensor by simply unplugging it and the fans will activate, which means the ECU has lost a temperature reading on the engine and goes into safe mode. Simple. A bad coil pack can momentarily shut down your ECU when it shorts. This is not speculation this is fact.

 

In my case all coils failed on the contact between internal power transistor and high voltage converter, there was never a short and ECU was never 'shut down'. All coils usually came back and worked normally for a few days then fail again. Very entertaining. Engine never stalled or refused to start on these occasions.

 

Heat affects sensor's internal contacts. I have a friend with Sentra who suffered from the same pattern - cut while driving, refuse to re-start while still hot. I don't remember but either cam or crank shaft sensor was replaced in his case. If it was my car I'd proceed with crankshaft sensor replacement. Which one? I don't know - toss the coin, really.

 

I don't really understand what is meant by testing the coil packs, so I guess the cranks pos sensors are all that is left. I haven't located them yet, so I'm not sure I will be doing them myself. I pray that one of these is the problem because I'm out of time, and also ideas it would seem.

 

Me neither - the only way to 'rest' them is to disconnect one at a time and see which one wasn't working before disconnecting. Not really relevant to your problem IMO.

Well Nissan issued recall for these sensors- there must be a reason. From what I read in the FSM you'd need access from the bottom of the car to replace them.

If you recall - when the car stalled last time you checked and refused to start afterward did you try to depress accelerator and then crank? This is just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

I don't recall for sure, but I believe I did it that way a couple of days ago. I will try it again tomorrow morning, and specifically do that to find out what happens. If it does or doesn't start, what would that mean?

Several times when I have tried to start it after stalling, I have been able to start it but really had to keep punching the gas to keep it going. That is what makes me think I did put the pedal down to start it again one time.

 

What I'm trying to find out is how much you had to push the pedal - just slightly or say 30%, meaning that if not for this problem the car would really go up to 2-3 k rpm? If this is the case then I don't have any other ideas besides crankshaft position sensors.

If only slight tap on the pedal allowed you to maintain idle meaning you could actually drive around like that (hard but possible) then IACV looks suspicious as you were essentially substituting it. What I don't understand then is why ECU doesn't throw a code - all IACV cases I saw here had correspondent error code.

One more idea - wait until the car cools down so it can start without problems but don't let it run. Disconnect one of the crankshaft position sensors and see if it prevents it from starting. If ECU absolutely needs only 1 to start the car you'll be able to identify it. If both are required then you're out of luck. You'll most likely get the code as a result of this experiment.

 

A dumb question but worth asking, is your CEL working?

 

There are no dumb questions at this point. And yes, it is working.

I didn't get to wrench on this at all today, I will be back at it tomorrow. I understand your question better now, and it required much more force than a tap to keep the car running. I really had to give it a lot of gas to keep it running, and no, I couldn't have driven it that way if that tells you how hard I had to hit it.

 

Very true - the hardest problems to troubleshoot for me were always the ones based on my assumptions.
I see - looks more and more like crankshaft sensors to me as you pretty much ruled out everything else.

 

Max_5gen,
After trying to jockey the car based on the position it died in in my garage I have been unsuccessful in trying to get to the crank pos sensors myself. I towed it to my mechanic yesterday with a list of what I have done and what I suspect it is. I guess I will wait to see what he says as its out of my hands at this point. I do think that it threw a code on one of these last attempts, so I will find out what it was and post it.

Thanks for all the help; we made a valiant attempt. And surely did save me some $ for all that I did myself. Without your help I wouldn't have gotten into the sensor world as it was not something I understood, so thanks again. I learned a lot more about my car in a short time and feel better equipped to handle similar thinkgs in the future. I will let you know what the outcome is once I get it back.
Jason

 

Well, you did what you could, I'm sorry it wasn't something simple. Let us know what you end up with, it would be interesting to know.

 

I am having the same issue on my 02 se (automatic). The issue started right around 94k miles.The battery and break lights would come on but not the check engine light. It would happen when in slow moving traffic and recently it happened when I was coming to a stop applying light pressure on the brake.

 

Alternator - get it checked/replaced ASAP, sounds like it's about to go out.

 

clean your throttle body, I had the same EXACT problem with my 02. cleaned throttle body, carefully, and problem solved... let me guess, when you start your car, it bogs and sometimes dies, if it doesnt die, the rpms go really really low, correct? try this, its one of the least expensive things to do and i bet it'll solve your issue... all you need is a carb/throttle body cleaner from a local shop and a lint free towel/rag... just search throttle body cleaning, many people, myself included, talked about it, be careful, follow the directions and clean it... good luck, keep us posted

 

That's what happened to me. the batt and brake lights both came on. Alternator was toast and had to replace it.

 

just had similar issues on my max. you might want to check the timing on it. that u def dont want to put off bcuz i had to replace my motor and i got not check engine lights!!! if thats not it then check ur cam shaft position sensors.

 

Thanks, gonna get it check soon.