SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I only use

BuddyWh

Agreed... we all have our preferences....

I used to think the same way about multi-vis (as long as it was a good quality oil) but my experience with my Rodeo has changed it. It's 3.2l SOHC engine is very sensitive to lifter oiling. In the manual and a couple service bulletins Isuzu strongly insists on nothing greater than 10w30... straight 30 preferred.

It is very common for people to report similar problems (noisy lifters) after about 50-60k miles using 10w40 oils even following a good oil change regime. If lucky, a couple of flushes will remove or reduce the build up of varnishes on the lifter oiling holes and galleries and reduce the noise. I used 10w40 and also had noisiness... I flushed with Gunk (twice) and now use 10w30 in winter and straight 30 in summer with no more than occasional noisiness.

To be sure this engine's design is less than optimal but it serves to illustrate the problem with multi-vis oils. Even a properly designed engine will gunk and varnish more with multi-vis oils.

BuddyWh

Virus

iTrader: (1)

Amsoil 0-30 Series 2000 Racing oil. I was very skeptical of this oil as the old saying goes, "if it's sounds too good to be true it usually is". I tried 3k, then 6k, then 9k and so on. I now usually change the oil at 12500 when the first Amsoil filter change is. Since I don't run hard most of the time the oil comes out fine. I used to run the Amsoil 0-30 for 30k miles in my old civic. 200k miles later and the engine was still new! The person that bought it was a Honda tech. He wanted to know what oil I was using since the engine was in such good shape. He knew of Amsoil but didn't use it because of the multi level thing. It's funny how people think your in a cult because you taught your good experiences with things like oil. I have 2 car guru's at work that think I'm in a cult because I use Amsoil. They use Mobil 1. They think that industry standard tests don't mean anything. I'm only a user not a seller. I think some of their other products are mediocre at best and why the hell they sell house, garden and vitamin crap I don't know. It mars their reputation. Stick to the car crap!

BuddyWh

There are quite a few testimonials from people opening there engines at high mileage and seeing "just like new". My son and I just adjusted valves and changed the oil pan gasket on his 95 Mirage 1.5l... absolutely crap maintenance for 130,000 miles (he needed a beater to drive downtown to work, it was cheap.) Oil changes maybe every 6-10K using the cheapest oil WalMart or PepBoys puts in. The engine was "just like new"... except for varnish on bottom and top-end. Sludge in the oil pan was very minor and none in the top-end or on the block. Now build-up on the oil take up. Rotating the engine, I could see into the bottom of the cylinders and the cross-hatch was "just like new", no apparent wear and no vertical scoring. The engine does not use oil... it leaks, but doesn't burn it. Oil pressure is fine and compression is great.

I think of these as testimonials as much to how well made engines (especially Jap engines) as to how good motor oils are today... even cheap dino oils.

BuddyWh

Virus

iTrader: (1)

Ok, then let's forget the testimonials and go with independant laboratory testing using all of the accepted test standards such as the Noack Volatility tests. Amsoil consistantly comes out on top even with long drain intervals.

BuddyWh

So stipulated... Amsoil is tops in the tests. But so what? What's the bottom line? What's it mean to me? I am more than willing to bet my engine's value on dino oil for 150k+ (when I'll trade the heap regardless of engine condition), and it is an extremely safe bet indeed. My experiences and thousands (tens of thousands) of others have shown it so.

How can I benefit by using such an expensive oil, beyond the satisfaction of knowing it has the best performance in these tests?

BuddyWh

Neal728

I've been using Mobil One, haven't noticed a difference with the new formulation. Works great, I buy it @ Costco for between 21-22 bucks a six pack. Change oil and filter every 5,000 or 6 months. You guys think that's a decent interval? It's worked well so far. Also I don't see the issue with putting in synthetic at the start, so it takes longer to break in, big deal. It still protects better. I put Mobil One in for the 1st time when my 2K2 had 94 miles on it.

Virus

iTrader: (1)

The benefit comes in when you factor in the 35,000 mile or 1 year drain intervals. The 0-30 weight is the only oil that I've ever noticed a gas mileage difference in gaining a minimum of 1mile more per gallon. The Amsoil 5-30 I noticed no difference over Mobil 1. If you do go the entire 35k miles changing the filter ever 12.5k like Amsoil recommends then you will same a ton of money. Better yet, try their triguard and get their bypass filter and go 100k without an oil changed!

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Besides placing near the top in most tests,Amsoil has been around for almost 30 years now. A lot of those testimonials come from car's from the mid 80's and some are domestic like Ford and Oldsmobile, and I think most people here would agree that some of those engines of that period were hardly up to the standards you mentioned on some of the Japanese motors.

Since I'm so hard on the car, I like to know that I have some of the best in there. I also like the better fuel mileage, the cooler operating temperatures and the fact that I don't have to dump used motor oil back to the environment. If we can manufacture and use a synthetic oil without any petroleum products why not use that and help prolong our petroleum reserves, why not? We will always be able to manufacture synthetic lubricants, petroleum is a limited supply. Will it dry up in our life time? No, but what about our kids and then their kids? Like Virus mentioned, the NOACK volatility of Amsoil is almost half that of Mobil 1 and even better than that compared to conventional oils, which leads to reduced oil consumption and lower emissions. Considering all the above, I defintely think it's worth it, especially if you don't change it every 3K miles.

BuddyWh

From what I can tell, you shouldn't blindly assume you can run 35,000 miles between drains. Most folk periodically send samples to Blackstone and changing when the analysis indicates. Thanks, but that's a lot more hassle than I want. And an analysis costs as much as a dino oil change!

Also, since I'm down there changing filters... it's very little hassle to just drain the oil at the same time. I cannot accept that you can run any filter for 12,000 miles... call me old fashioned but standard filters are just too cheap to play such games with. A bypass arrangement would be great, but expensive.

And, finally, I would very much like to keep my warranty in effect. If anything should happen I can give them a record book and receipts that document oil and filter changes every 3-5K miles. I wonder how quick Nissan would deny a warranty claim at 50,000 miles if I can only document one oil change in it's life!

BuddyWh

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

I agree totally on the Blackstone labs thing. You only need like 2-3 analysis' to figure out a good drain interval for your conditions, you don't really need to keep doing them ALL the time, so you can still end up saving money in the long run.

You're old fashioned in some regards You're right when it comes to filters like Fram, but Amsoil's and Mobil's are way better and capable of a much longer life and better filtration than the cheap low quality paper ones.

You're right I doubt Nissan would react to well, it would definitely be a fight. On the other hand, if the failure is oil related, Amsoil offers their own warranty. I find it interesting that you would be concerned about a warranty claim on a Japanese motor with 50K on it, considering that three posts ago you mentioned the reliabilty of them. Kind of contradictory.

BuddyWh

Not at all contradictory... there is a vast difference between a failure, where something breaks, and engine wear. Engines wear extremely well today due to improvements in design, engineering, materials and lubrication but failures still happen, albeit at a lower rate than previously. Nissan could (and probably would) deny my warranty claim on a failure (a broken crank shaft, thrown rod or blown head gasket for instance) on the basis I didn't provide proper preventive maintenance with 20,000 miles on an oil change. Is it safe to assume Amsoil would cover all of these as an oil-related failure?

As I see it, the odds are vastly in my favor gambling on adequate wear with dino, than trying to get Nissan warranty service if something vital breaks on a 20,000 mile oil change.

BuddyWh

Virus

iTrader: (1)

I agree that Nissan would be a fight if you outright told them you were changing the oil at these long drain intervals. So don't tell them. It's up to them to prove what the cause of the problem is. Amsoil has been in business for over 30 years and has always had extended drain intervals and has never shelled out any money and is good standing with the better business bureau. I don't think they would be this squeaky clean if folks were having problems with the long drain intervals. Like I mentioned before, I did 3k, 6k, 9k and so on until I felt confortable with the long drain intervals. On the other hand, I like you think it's just as easy to change the oil when the filter change occurs. Amsoil's oil filters are very good at trapping dirt, but I think Mobil's are a tad better. Anyone have any comparison's on the filters? I just bought a K&N air filter today. The gaskets didn't seem to hold the filter in very tight. Is this normal? It seemed to go in ok, but I had to try several times to hold the filter into place.

BuddyWh

Ummm... just a minute here... it seems to me I have read synthetics are "built" from petroleum bases, i.e., they are a product of organic chemistry that uses petroleum molecules as it's base. How is Amsoil different in this regard?

Buddywh

BuddyWh

That would be very difficult. From all accounts Nissan area reps demand proof of adequate maintenance. I would have to conjure up receipts and cook some entries in my service record book. That's fraud, and probably a felony since an engine replacement is around $5,000. Not good advice, thanks.

If I chose the extended drain interval approach I would choose the option of presenting the Amsoil literature and my Blackstone results to Nissan reps and probably loose. But that's prefereble to the legal ramifications of a felonious fraud rap. And cheaper than attorney fees.

BuddyWh

Virus

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't telling you to lie, but rather stating not to offer any info. Better yet, you wouldn't be lying if you stated that you changed your oil according to recommded drain intervals. Vague yes, lying not.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Synthetics are not all created equal. Below is part of a post I made regarding the composition of different synthetics. This is before Mobil's Supersyn came out, so that part my not be entirely accurate anymore.

Amsoil uses a polyalphaolefin base stock which is created by combining ethylene molecules into hydrocarbon chains of uniform size and shape. This is commonly referred to Group IV basestocks.

Redline is a polyolester base synthesized from a chemical reaction between an alcohol and an acid. This is a Group V basestock

Castrol Syntec is made from a hydroisomerized and hydrocracked PETROLEUM DISTALLATE. Basically, they create a synthetic from a non-synthetic. This is a Group III basestock, probably what you were referring to.

Now, for Mobil 1 it's a little more involved. They use three different main compounds, hence the tri-synthetic label. Similar to Amsoil, one component is a polyalphaolefin, the second is a synthetic ester and the third is an alkylated aromatic fluid. It's the third compound that is interesting. An aromatic is a component of petroleum oil, and in fact is one of the compounds in dino oil that promotes seal swelling (the other synthetics use additives for this same issue to remain more pure). Notice I said PETROLEUM oil. This is where the new formulation comes in. Mobil claims this is in there oil in order to make it fully compatible with conventional oils, yet Amsoil and Redline manage to do this in other ways, which actually cost more money, but in my opinion, produce a better oil.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

I'm sure Nissan would TRY to deny coverage for a case like that. Would Amsoil cover you? I'm not sure, it's all done on a case by case basis. I do agree that it would be something for the lawyers to figure out. I imagine this would be similar to the cases against Toyota where people COULD prove that the engine was maintained as recommended, but the still had sludge related failures. Guess what? Toyota initially refused the claims for years! In a case like this, having receipts doesn't really mean anything. Lawyers are still going to fight it out.

Maximam

LMAO!