y-pipe dyno charts request for 5th gen
06-20-2010, 11:35 AM
#41
Irish, to me it doesn't make sense to just change the y-pipe when the headers are restrictive themselves.
Rochester, thanks man.
essential1, I feel you man people are stuck in there own ideas.
I find it hard to believe that with a y-pipe alone gains almost as much hp as the headers, that's just ridiculous especially after i proved that the headers themselves are restrictive. And the best value is getting the most hp out of your money and i just don't see it with just a y-pipe. But you know what just go spend 350 on the y-pipe, bolt it up to your headers and get a big fart can and it'll just sound like your going fast and have alot of power
Rochester, thanks man.
essential1, I feel you man people are stuck in there own ideas.
I find it hard to believe that with a y-pipe alone gains almost as much hp as the headers, that's just ridiculous especially after i proved that the headers themselves are restrictive. And the best value is getting the most hp out of your money and i just don't see it with just a y-pipe. But you know what just go spend 350 on the y-pipe, bolt it up to your headers and get a big fart can and it'll just sound like your going fast and have alot of power
06-20-2010, 12:39 PM
#42
Irish, to me it doesn't make sense to just change the y-pipe when the headers are restrictive themselves.
Rochester, thanks man.
essential1, I feel you man people are stuck in there own ideas.
I find it hard to believe that with a y-pipe alone gains almost as much hp as the headers, that's just ridiculous especially after i proved that the headers themselves are restrictive. And the best value is getting the most hp out of your money and i just don't see it with just a y-pipe. But you know what just go spend 350 on the y-pipe, bolt it up to your headers and get a big fart can and it'll just sound like your going fast and have alot of power
Rochester, thanks man.
essential1, I feel you man people are stuck in there own ideas.
I find it hard to believe that with a y-pipe alone gains almost as much hp as the headers, that's just ridiculous especially after i proved that the headers themselves are restrictive. And the best value is getting the most hp out of your money and i just don't see it with just a y-pipe. But you know what just go spend 350 on the y-pipe, bolt it up to your headers and get a big fart can and it'll just sound like your going fast and have alot of power
You guys may not recall this, but back in 2003 or so, Brian Catts (Cattman) actually designed headers for the 00-01 maximas and tested them against Cattman's y-pipe.
Originally Posted by cattman
headers added 16+hp at peak, 18+ hp off-peak, at the wheel. I've heard some pretty rediculous claims for y-pipes over the years, but under similar circumstances I would expect around 10hp more at peak, 12hp more off-peak,
Now, at the time (2003) ypipes went for about 250-300 and headers were more like 700. So $400 for an extra 6whp. THIS is why most people went with ypipes - you got more for the money.
With the OBX headers down to 400, now it probably makes more sense to go with the header over a ypipe since it's similar money for 6 more whp - assuming you don't mind the extra install hassle, and don't need to pass emissions (another reason people stuck with ypipes, for those of us in emissions-testing states). I'm not around here much these days and wasn't aware that they had gotten so cheap, hence part of the basis of my argument on cost vs. power. I can admit it when I am wrong/out of date
So there it is. Those figures are from Brian Catts, who knows headers and ypipes better than any of us.
Like I said, though, I would love to see a direct dyno comparison. It is well documented on this site that a 5th gen MT gets 195 or so whp with ypipe alone. So if someone will post a dyno of a stock 5th gen MT with OBX headers, we can settle this argument I think. Essential says he can but doesn't want to. I don't have a maxima anymore, so I really don't care enough to search for them.
as to the comment about fart cans - not sure if that was directed at me or someone else......but you're saying that a ypipe is a ricer mod? While it may not make quite as much power as headers, it most certainly makes a decent amount of power, is easy to install, and is still pretty cheap. I don't think anyone ever called my car "ricey" in all my years here, and I had a ypipe. So....please explain the fart can comment
--
Threads like this make me so happy to have a FI car though.....all it takes is a DP and tactrix cable to make pretty much whatever kind of power you want
Last edited by irish44j; 06-20-2010 at 12:43 PM.
06-20-2010, 12:58 PM
#43
No irish i wasn't talking to you actually, and if you want a list of my mods just pm me I have all new suspension (dropped 1.5" btw) and when I say suspension I mean everything not just struts and springs, new brake system with cross drilled rotors, and I just started with the engine did a couple things but that's all I'll discuss for now just a couple things for trying to call me out that's all.
2003? That's a while back now even cattman has improved his own headers to gain more hp then that about double from what I can remember I think with the recent headers people were getting between 23-30 hp, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
2003? That's a while back now even cattman has improved his own headers to gain more hp then that about double from what I can remember I think with the recent headers people were getting between 23-30 hp, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
06-20-2010, 05:16 PM
#44
No irish i wasn't talking to you actually, and if you want a list of my mods just pm me I have all new suspension (dropped 1.5" btw) and when I say suspension I mean everything not just struts and springs, new brake system with cross drilled rotors, and I just started with the engine did a couple things but that's all I'll discuss for now just a couple things for trying to call me out that's all.
2003? That's a while back now even cattman has improved his own headers to gain more hp then that about double from what I can remember I think with the recent headers people were getting between 23-30 hp, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
2003? That's a while back now even cattman has improved his own headers to gain more hp then that about double from what I can remember I think with the recent headers people were getting between 23-30 hp, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Lol, I can't believe you subscribed to this lame thread though 
Like I said though - I'm not around here that much anymore, so if that's what they're getting these days.....cool. I just haven't seen that documented anywhere of headers on a stock engine (what the OP is asking about), since most people who go headers also do catback, intake, etc etc. Still would like essential or someone to post an actual dyno, but doesn't look like that's gonna happen....
06-20-2010, 06:02 PM
#46
Here in VA they don't do tailpipe, they do OBD2 plug-in. So unless you have an O2 sim, you're going to throw a precat SES code most of the time. That said O2 sim is cheap and easy to do and will get you passing, unless you don't hide it well (my roomie failed inspection because the inspector did a visual check and saw his two sims in the O2 sensor wiring....not hidden like they should have been
Plus headers are usually visible in the engine bay, so any decent grease monkey doing a visual inspect can see that they're not stock...ypipe is less noticeable.Some stations here do a pretty complete visual inspection of the emissions/exhaust system during bi-annual emissions inspection.
Of course, you can throw a precat code with a ypipe as well, especially a fed spec pipe. I ran one O2 sim on mine to turn off the SES.
06-20-2010, 06:07 PM
#47
wow.... being away for a couple of days fills up the entire page!!
Good thoughts and opinions...
Once again... the core here is low cost...
Knowing headers would cost upwards of 400 including install and tuning and the added components... the y-pipe does seem to be the way out.
I found a website with dynos of just the ypipe from a guy who was trying to find out if removing the front pre-cat really added HP and if it was really worth it. Mind you... the guy already has a catback but the key is he ran a baseline and then with y-pipe and then with the front precat removed.
You can see his results here: http://desertpearlmax.homestead.com/dynoresults.html
From the charts... the zone that i normally drive in i.e. 2500-400rpm... there is a good gain of about 10-12 lbs of Tq and about 10HP... to me that is good gain... would header get more of a gain that that? does anyone have dyno charts proving so?
Also... this is a 4 door auto family car for us... if i need to have fun... a FI-330ci sits in the next garage!
I'm still leaning towards going cattman y-pipe and from the posts here.. it still seems to be the best way out.. Unless someone has dyno charts with headers.... and can prove to me that there is "significant" difference over just the y-pipe... ????
Good thoughts and opinions...
Once again... the core here is low cost...
Knowing headers would cost upwards of 400 including install and tuning and the added components... the y-pipe does seem to be the way out.
I found a website with dynos of just the ypipe from a guy who was trying to find out if removing the front pre-cat really added HP and if it was really worth it. Mind you... the guy already has a catback but the key is he ran a baseline and then with y-pipe and then with the front precat removed.
You can see his results here: http://desertpearlmax.homestead.com/dynoresults.html
From the charts... the zone that i normally drive in i.e. 2500-400rpm... there is a good gain of about 10-12 lbs of Tq and about 10HP... to me that is good gain... would header get more of a gain that that? does anyone have dyno charts proving so?
Also... this is a 4 door auto family car for us... if i need to have fun... a FI-330ci sits in the next garage!
I'm still leaning towards going cattman y-pipe and from the posts here.. it still seems to be the best way out.. Unless someone has dyno charts with headers.... and can prove to me that there is "significant" difference over just the y-pipe... ????
Last edited by kukx30de; 06-20-2010 at 06:12 PM.
06-20-2010, 06:13 PM
#49
06-20-2010, 08:38 PM
#50
interesting....looks like you guys made out. I was throwing codes even with one of the precats still in place. sim took care of it....
06-20-2010, 08:41 PM
#51
OP: after all this discussion I have to say in honesty..... If you have $350, go buy a set of Eibach or Tein H-Tech springs and a rear swaybar. Those two components will have about 10x the positive improvement to your car than a ypipe or headers will anyhow, for the same price. Address the car's weak points (suspension/handling) before its strong points (stock power).
Modding order for a maxima should be: suspension, brakes, chassis, engine (in that order)...IMO.
Modding order for a maxima should be: suspension, brakes, chassis, engine (in that order)...IMO.
06-20-2010, 08:45 PM
#52
You can see his results here: http://desertpearlmax.homestead.com/dynoresults.html
06-20-2010, 09:37 PM
#54
as to the comment about fart cans - not sure if that was directed at me or someone else......but you're saying that a ypipe is a ricer mod? While it may not make quite as much power as headers, it most certainly makes a decent amount of power, is easy to install, and is still pretty cheap. I don't think anyone ever called my car "ricey" in all my years here, and I had a ypipe. So....please explain the fart can comment
06-20-2010, 09:39 PM
#55
06-21-2010, 05:03 AM
#56
OP: after all this discussion I have to say in honesty..... If you have $350, go buy a set of Eibach or Tein H-Tech springs and a rear swaybar. Those two components will have about 10x the positive improvement to your car than a ypipe or headers will anyhow, for the same price. Address the car's weak points (suspension/handling) before its strong points (stock power).
Modding order for a maxima should be: suspension, brakes, chassis, engine (in that order)...IMO.
Modding order for a maxima should be: suspension, brakes, chassis, engine (in that order)...IMO.
I wasnt too happy of the way the H&R were taking bumps.. so I kept the illuminas and put in the stock SE springs. On the GLE... I have to say... going from the oem GLE springs to the SE springs is a suspension upgrade in itself!
I have been thinking brakes, but i dont push the max that hard so the setup i have right now of brembo blanks and hawks does pretty well.
Overall... since the car has the higher miles on her... the only reason i was thinking y-pipe was to replace the clogged pre cats ... would get me some additional engine power but more importantly save my motor from damage a clogged precat can do.. putting in the y-pipe and high flow cat for 350 to me is the cheaper alternative to go buy a new oem y-pipe and cat. I also spent a lot of time reading the header threads again... and i'm not seeing a distinct pattern of folks who have truly gotten the most out of them. Yes, there are a few but i saw a lot of threads where the tuning process really took time.. with a growing family.. i cant devote that kind of time to the family car !
06-21-2010, 06:15 AM
#57
It's an auto.
06-21-2010, 07:16 AM
#58
06-21-2010, 08:41 AM
#60
Irish, to me it doesn't make sense to just change the y-pipe when the headers are restrictive themselves.
Rochester, thanks man.
essential1, I feel you man people are stuck in there own ideas.
I find it hard to believe that with a y-pipe alone gains almost as much hp as the headers, that's just ridiculous especially after i proved that the headers themselves are restrictive. And the best value is getting the most hp out of your money and i just don't see it with just a y-pipe. But you know what just go spend 350 on the y-pipe, bolt it up to your headers and get a big fart can and it'll just sound like your going fast and have alot of power
Rochester, thanks man.
essential1, I feel you man people are stuck in there own ideas.
I find it hard to believe that with a y-pipe alone gains almost as much hp as the headers, that's just ridiculous especially after i proved that the headers themselves are restrictive. And the best value is getting the most hp out of your money and i just don't see it with just a y-pipe. But you know what just go spend 350 on the y-pipe, bolt it up to your headers and get a big fart can and it'll just sound like your going fast and have alot of power
06-21-2010, 10:14 AM
#63
This is why these threads are so pointless... nobody is ever going to change there perspective on things, it never gets no where, for the most part when ppl make these threads they already have they minds made up on what they wanna buy but just wants somebody to agree with em so they feel good... again its no point in even participating in these threads... i say take the info from people who mod their cars and dyno and run em vs somebody with some theoretical idea on how something is suppose to work....... headers will forever make more power than a Y-pipe thats a fact whether anybody else wanna disagree with it
06-21-2010, 11:14 AM
#65
This is why these threads are so pointless... nobody is ever going to change there perspective on things, it never gets no where, for the most part when ppl make these threads they already have they minds made up on what they wanna buy but just wants somebody to agree with em so they feel good... again its no point in even participating in these threads... i say take the info from people who mod their cars and dyno and run em vs somebody with some theoretical idea on how something is suppose to work....... headers will forever make more power than a Y-pipe thats a fact whether anybody else wanna disagree with it
So that I can probably make an informed decision, would you be able to furnish the following info?
1. Extra work to put in the headers as compared to y-pipe.
2. Extra parts needed to tune the headers once on the car.
3. The cost of dyno tuning the car. This is extremely important as our car is used mostly for cross country trips and i get about 27 right now. I know for a fact with headers and no tuning the car would run rich chugging extra fuel in the process.
The reason for this thread was not because I had made up my mind and wanted someone to agree with, but rather make an informed decision.
If you read my posts... I have NO desire for power... from the start of this thread the only point i have made is to use an aftermarket y-pipe as an OEM replacement for potentially clogged precats. However, ppl easily feel I am leaning in the direction of modding the car for power and that is just not the case. I would rather save my money than truly mod an automatic 10yr maxima with 190K + miles LOL
peace bro!!
06-21-2010, 12:12 PM
#67
06-21-2010, 12:29 PM
#69
The point to ask for dyno charts was to see if it really made a difference since i read so much about this change on here. If doing a regular maintenance also adds a tad bit of performance... I'd like to know what i'm getting into.
The key question still is, should a y-pipe be used as oem replacement since the cost is lower... or should one look at the headers. The answer I am leaning towards currently is y-pipe since I can go ahead and install it myself. With headers I have seen several threads where folks have had fitment issues and I really dont want to get into grinding parts to "make" them fit etc.
I have been able to see what the y-pipe results in, however I have not seen concrete charts of what the headers can do.. and more importantly how expensive the entire process of header install+additional parts+tuning can get.
Another point I may add is how the mpgs would do once the headers are in... I have found y-pipes to add mpg since the precats are gone... but headers would probably result in a drop until tuning is done and frankly that is a cost that one needs to find out before going in either direction.
If I was a college kid with my father sponsoring these type of mods.. i would probably first get something with RWD instead of FWD.... cost dictates what one can do...
The key question still is, should a y-pipe be used as oem replacement since the cost is lower... or should one look at the headers. The answer I am leaning towards currently is y-pipe since I can go ahead and install it myself. With headers I have seen several threads where folks have had fitment issues and I really dont want to get into grinding parts to "make" them fit etc.
I have been able to see what the y-pipe results in, however I have not seen concrete charts of what the headers can do.. and more importantly how expensive the entire process of header install+additional parts+tuning can get.
Another point I may add is how the mpgs would do once the headers are in... I have found y-pipes to add mpg since the precats are gone... but headers would probably result in a drop until tuning is done and frankly that is a cost that one needs to find out before going in either direction.
If I was a college kid with my father sponsoring these type of mods.. i would probably first get something with RWD instead of FWD.... cost dictates what one can do...
06-21-2010, 12:35 PM
#70
Infact... lets lay the numbers down.
Case 1: only y-pipe and high flow cat:
Cost of parts: 285
Cost of install: $0
Supplies: probably $25
roughly about $310 to get the car back on the road.
Case 3: Headers
Cost of parts: $350
Cost of install: ~$100
Cost of high flow cat: $85
Cost of dyno tuning: ???
We're already looking at upwards of $500 with this... if someone has the tuning numbers and other parts needed.. it would certainly help!
Edit: Found sample dyno tuning cost from google.
Dyno tuning cost from http://www.realspeedautomotive.com/dynotuning.html
Approx cost: $150-$300
Case 1: only y-pipe and high flow cat:
Cost of parts: 285
Cost of install: $0
Supplies: probably $25
roughly about $310 to get the car back on the road.
Case 3: Headers
Cost of parts: $350
Cost of install: ~$100
Cost of high flow cat: $85
Cost of dyno tuning: ???
We're already looking at upwards of $500 with this... if someone has the tuning numbers and other parts needed.. it would certainly help!
Edit: Found sample dyno tuning cost from google.
Dyno tuning cost from http://www.realspeedautomotive.com/dynotuning.html
Approx cost: $150-$300
Last edited by kukx30de; 06-21-2010 at 12:38 PM.
06-21-2010, 12:59 PM
#72
You keep talking about getting your car "dyno tuned", but how do you expect to accomplish that without some kind of intermediary device? No one is going to lay hands on your distributor cap, or apply fine-tune adjustments to your carburetor. Those days are gone, man.
What do you think is going to happen when you get your car strapped to a dyno?
I'm getting whiplash with this thread.
What do you think is going to happen when you get your car strapped to a dyno?
I'm getting whiplash with this thread.
Last edited by Rochester; 06-21-2010 at 01:04 PM.
06-21-2010, 01:10 PM
#75
...more than your budget, in money, time and priorities. If that's your point.
So scratch the whole "tuning" thing from your laundry list. It's just an exhaust. You don't have to tune the engine to appreciate benefits from an aftermarket exhaust on the 5th gen Maxima.
So scratch the whole "tuning" thing from your laundry list. It's just an exhaust. You don't have to tune the engine to appreciate benefits from an aftermarket exhaust on the 5th gen Maxima.
06-21-2010, 01:12 PM
#76
Thanks for understanding and the feedback man... if it were not baby on the way time for us... I would have surely jumped on the headers...
Its just that $$ are tight right now and I have to make this decision... its like a freaking catch 22
Its just that $$ are tight right now and I have to make this decision... its like a freaking catch 22
06-21-2010, 01:23 PM
#77
That's cool. No need to spin in circles. There are answers here if you're willing to sift through things.
At the very beginning of this thread, I missed that you had the 3.0, and not the 3.5. When I said, "Headers. Without hesitation.", I was thinking of my own configuration. Irish weighed in with a valid point that on the 3.0, the y-pipe was almost 1:1 as good as headers. It got confusing because he was speaking historically, and more current members are familiar with less expensive parts than were once available.
It's almost as if you've come full circle back to your original intent: an aftermarket y-pipe. And since you're doing your own install, all the better, cost-wise. Certainly there will be less complications in fitment, O2 wiring, and concerns about emissions testing.
Does this walk you down a little? Does anyone else agree or disagree with that assessment? Is anyone else still here after all this silliness?
Oh, and this is OT, but with baby-on-the-way, start looking for a minivan. They're an invaluable utility for a start-up family. VW is offering a full 10K off their Routan right about now.
At the very beginning of this thread, I missed that you had the 3.0, and not the 3.5. When I said, "Headers. Without hesitation.", I was thinking of my own configuration. Irish weighed in with a valid point that on the 3.0, the y-pipe was almost 1:1 as good as headers. It got confusing because he was speaking historically, and more current members are familiar with less expensive parts than were once available.
It's almost as if you've come full circle back to your original intent: an aftermarket y-pipe. And since you're doing your own install, all the better, cost-wise. Certainly there will be less complications in fitment, O2 wiring, and concerns about emissions testing.
Does this walk you down a little? Does anyone else agree or disagree with that assessment? Is anyone else still here after all this silliness?
Oh, and this is OT, but with baby-on-the-way, start looking for a minivan. They're an invaluable utility for a start-up family. VW is offering a full 10K off their Routan right about now.
06-21-2010, 07:39 PM
#78
well, take a look at the stock b-pipe - it is actually VERY restrictive and has a big crimp in it near where it turns to go over the axle. Agree that the cat and muffler stock are not restrictive though.
06-21-2010, 07:42 PM
#79
good point.
