Front End vibration after new suspension parts: Diagnosis and results
Front End vibration after new suspension parts: Diagnosis and results
Last month I decided to finally keep one set of struts and springs.
All the time, I had 2 setups... one was the stock GLE springs and struts and the other was H&R + Illumina setup.
To get some money back, I went ahead and sold my GLE setup and H&R springs which had like no miles on them and bought a set of SE springs. Put in new mounts, isolators strut bearings etc. The SE springs went in with the Illuminas. For my driving habits I found this setup to be perfect with none of the bottoming out at the rear end i kept experiencing with the H&R's when the car was fully loaded.
Got the car aligned the next morning. The alignment was done on a Hunter machine just calibrated and the print out showed toe issues which was fixed as part of the alignment.
A couple days later, i found there was shimmy in the front end. It is hard to describe the shimmy but think of when your rotors are "just" warped shimmy/vibration. It would start at about 45 and just stay getting worse at some speeds than others. For some reason on making left or right turns the vibration would just go away.
Diagnosis:
- Bearings? the car does have 192K miles and the bearings have never been changed. Jacked up the car and no play at all during the 12-6 shake.
- Tie Rods? the ones in there have about 70K on them and are aftermarket. Left side had absolutely no play and right side had a minute like make yourself believe there is play amount of play at the 9-3 shake.
- Struts? The Illuminas have been used for about 15K miles so I ruled those out.
- Springs? I bought the springs used so was it a chance something with them. Did a bounce test with the Illuminas set from 1-5 and there was no issues on either side. Car was damped after one up-down movement each time.
- Tires? Balance.... well took the car back to discount tire where i bought my michelins. They balanced tires... left shop... little better... had i nailed this issue.... nopes... enter freeway and same vibration... took it back to the tire ship.. this time they rebalance using road force. Found 2 tires needed to be unmounted and re-adjusted. Done... come back on the road... little difference... vibration now started around 55 ...
- Steering? The car has 192K and oem steering rack... read online that if some play develops in the rack it would manifest as front end vibration. Looked under the car to see if inner tie rods had any issue... found nothing.
Then I read an interesting article... it said in a condition of "toe out" excessive variation would cause the tires to scrub and cause vibration. I was like could there have been some settling of the new rubber suspension parts.. so went back to the alignment shop and asked for my usual mechanic to work on the car.
Got the rack on the rack and all strapped up. The issue was toe out... the FSM says our toe on each side is min at 0.0 degrees a nominal of 0.04 and a maximum of 0.08 degrees... my right side was at 0.13 and the left was at 0.11
Numbers look minor but once the car was adjusted... mechanic said he sets maximas to 0.05 on both sides so i let him do that.
Took the car out... immediately felt the steering had become nice and tight! it wasnt feeling sloppy and loose like a camry anymore.
I thought I'd post this experience so if any of you are facing similar issues you get an additional set of points to check on.
All the time, I had 2 setups... one was the stock GLE springs and struts and the other was H&R + Illumina setup.
To get some money back, I went ahead and sold my GLE setup and H&R springs which had like no miles on them and bought a set of SE springs. Put in new mounts, isolators strut bearings etc. The SE springs went in with the Illuminas. For my driving habits I found this setup to be perfect with none of the bottoming out at the rear end i kept experiencing with the H&R's when the car was fully loaded.
Got the car aligned the next morning. The alignment was done on a Hunter machine just calibrated and the print out showed toe issues which was fixed as part of the alignment.
A couple days later, i found there was shimmy in the front end. It is hard to describe the shimmy but think of when your rotors are "just" warped shimmy/vibration. It would start at about 45 and just stay getting worse at some speeds than others. For some reason on making left or right turns the vibration would just go away.
Diagnosis:
- Bearings? the car does have 192K miles and the bearings have never been changed. Jacked up the car and no play at all during the 12-6 shake.
- Tie Rods? the ones in there have about 70K on them and are aftermarket. Left side had absolutely no play and right side had a minute like make yourself believe there is play amount of play at the 9-3 shake.
- Struts? The Illuminas have been used for about 15K miles so I ruled those out.
- Springs? I bought the springs used so was it a chance something with them. Did a bounce test with the Illuminas set from 1-5 and there was no issues on either side. Car was damped after one up-down movement each time.
- Tires? Balance.... well took the car back to discount tire where i bought my michelins. They balanced tires... left shop... little better... had i nailed this issue.... nopes... enter freeway and same vibration... took it back to the tire ship.. this time they rebalance using road force. Found 2 tires needed to be unmounted and re-adjusted. Done... come back on the road... little difference... vibration now started around 55 ...
- Steering? The car has 192K and oem steering rack... read online that if some play develops in the rack it would manifest as front end vibration. Looked under the car to see if inner tie rods had any issue... found nothing.
Then I read an interesting article... it said in a condition of "toe out" excessive variation would cause the tires to scrub and cause vibration. I was like could there have been some settling of the new rubber suspension parts.. so went back to the alignment shop and asked for my usual mechanic to work on the car.
Got the rack on the rack and all strapped up. The issue was toe out... the FSM says our toe on each side is min at 0.0 degrees a nominal of 0.04 and a maximum of 0.08 degrees... my right side was at 0.13 and the left was at 0.11
Numbers look minor but once the car was adjusted... mechanic said he sets maximas to 0.05 on both sides so i let him do that.
Took the car out... immediately felt the steering had become nice and tight! it wasnt feeling sloppy and loose like a camry anymore.
I thought I'd post this experience so if any of you are facing similar issues you get an additional set of points to check on.
Last edited by kukx30de; Jul 8, 2010 at 07:31 AM.
I have an issue with my steering wheel vibration between 45 and 65 mph.
So far I changed the sway bar end links, sway bar bushings, tie rod ends, rotors and pads, balanced tires and finally had the front aligned.
Once I get to about 70+ the vibration goes away.
The reading on my front end for toe is .08 (left) and .06 (right) for a total toe of .10
Could that be the source of my vibration? According to the print out its in the green.
Then again my back end has a toe of .18 and .06 totaling .24 but I dont know if that would make the steering wheel shake yet not feel it throughout the whole cabin.
So far I changed the sway bar end links, sway bar bushings, tie rod ends, rotors and pads, balanced tires and finally had the front aligned.
Once I get to about 70+ the vibration goes away.
The reading on my front end for toe is .08 (left) and .06 (right) for a total toe of .10
Could that be the source of my vibration? According to the print out its in the green.
Then again my back end has a toe of .18 and .06 totaling .24 but I dont know if that would make the steering wheel shake yet not feel it throughout the whole cabin.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: Atlanta
Last month I decided to finally keep one set of struts and springs.
All the time, I had 2 setups... one was the stock GLE springs and struts and the other was H&R + Illumina setup.
To get some money back, I went ahead and sold my GLE setup and H&R springs which had like no miles on them and bought a set of SE springs. Put in new mounts, isolators strut bearings etc. The SE springs went in with the Illuminas. For my driving habits I found this setup to be perfect with none of the bottoming out at the rear end i kept experiencing with the H&R's when the car was fully loaded.
Got the car aligned the next morning. The alignment was done on a Hunter machine just calibrated and the print out showed toe issues which was fixed as part of the alignment.
A couple days later, i found there was shimmy in the front end. It is hard to describe the shimmy but think of when your rotors are "just" warped shimmy/vibration. It would start at about 45 and just stay getting worse at some speeds than others. For some reason on making left or right turns the vibration would just go away.
Diagnosis:
- Bearings? the car does have 192K miles and the bearings have never been changed. Jacked up the car and no play at all during the 12-6 shake.
- Tie Rods? the ones in there have about 70K on them and are aftermarket. Left side had absolutely no play and right side had a minute like make yourself believe there is play amount of play at the 9-3 shake.
- Struts? The Illuminas have been used for about 15K miles so I ruled those out.
- Springs? I bought the springs used so was it a chance something with them. Did a bounce test with the Illuminas set from 1-5 and there was no issues on either side. Car was damped after one up-down movement each time.
- Tires? Balance.... well took the car back to discount tire where i bought my michelins. They balanced tires... left shop... little better... had i nailed this issue.... nopes... enter freeway and same vibration... took it back to the tire ship.. this time they rebalance using road force. Found 2 tires needed to be unmounted and re-adjusted. Done... come back on the road... little difference... vibration now started around 55 ...
- Steering? The car has 192K and oem steering rack... read online that if some play develops in the rack it would manifest as front end vibration. Looked under the car to see if inner tie rods had any issue... found nothing.
Then I read an interesting article... it said in a condition of "toe out" excessive variation would cause the tires to scrub and cause vibration. I was like could there have been some settling of the new rubber suspension parts.. so went back to the alignment shop and asked for my usual mechanic to work on the car.
Got the rack on the rack and all strapped up. The issue was toe out... the FSM says our toe on each side is min at 0.0 degrees a nominal of 0.04 and a maximum of 0.08 degrees... my right side was at 0.13 and the left was at 0.11
Numbers look minor but once the car was adjusted... mechanic said he sets maximas to 0.05 on both sides so i let him do that.
Took the car out... immediately felt the steering had become nice and tight! it wasnt feeling sloppy and loose like a camry anymore.
I thought I'd post this experience so if any of you are facing similar issues you get an additional set of points to check on.
All the time, I had 2 setups... one was the stock GLE springs and struts and the other was H&R + Illumina setup.
To get some money back, I went ahead and sold my GLE setup and H&R springs which had like no miles on them and bought a set of SE springs. Put in new mounts, isolators strut bearings etc. The SE springs went in with the Illuminas. For my driving habits I found this setup to be perfect with none of the bottoming out at the rear end i kept experiencing with the H&R's when the car was fully loaded.
Got the car aligned the next morning. The alignment was done on a Hunter machine just calibrated and the print out showed toe issues which was fixed as part of the alignment.
A couple days later, i found there was shimmy in the front end. It is hard to describe the shimmy but think of when your rotors are "just" warped shimmy/vibration. It would start at about 45 and just stay getting worse at some speeds than others. For some reason on making left or right turns the vibration would just go away.
Diagnosis:
- Bearings? the car does have 192K miles and the bearings have never been changed. Jacked up the car and no play at all during the 12-6 shake.
- Tie Rods? the ones in there have about 70K on them and are aftermarket. Left side had absolutely no play and right side had a minute like make yourself believe there is play amount of play at the 9-3 shake.
- Struts? The Illuminas have been used for about 15K miles so I ruled those out.
- Springs? I bought the springs used so was it a chance something with them. Did a bounce test with the Illuminas set from 1-5 and there was no issues on either side. Car was damped after one up-down movement each time.
- Tires? Balance.... well took the car back to discount tire where i bought my michelins. They balanced tires... left shop... little better... had i nailed this issue.... nopes... enter freeway and same vibration... took it back to the tire ship.. this time they rebalance using road force. Found 2 tires needed to be unmounted and re-adjusted. Done... come back on the road... little difference... vibration now started around 55 ...
- Steering? The car has 192K and oem steering rack... read online that if some play develops in the rack it would manifest as front end vibration. Looked under the car to see if inner tie rods had any issue... found nothing.
Then I read an interesting article... it said in a condition of "toe out" excessive variation would cause the tires to scrub and cause vibration. I was like could there have been some settling of the new rubber suspension parts.. so went back to the alignment shop and asked for my usual mechanic to work on the car.
Got the rack on the rack and all strapped up. The issue was toe out... the FSM says our toe on each side is min at 0.0 degrees a nominal of 0.04 and a maximum of 0.08 degrees... my right side was at 0.13 and the left was at 0.11
Numbers look minor but once the car was adjusted... mechanic said he sets maximas to 0.05 on both sides so i let him do that.
Took the car out... immediately felt the steering had become nice and tight! it wasnt feeling sloppy and loose like a camry anymore.
I thought I'd post this experience so if any of you are facing similar issues you get an additional set of points to check on.
But my head hurt after going through the step by step, LOL!
Anyway good job!
I have an issue with my steering wheel vibration between 45 and 65 mph.
So far I changed the sway bar end links, sway bar bushings, tie rod ends, rotors and pads, balanced tires and finally had the front aligned.
Once I get to about 70+ the vibration goes away.
The reading on my front end for toe is .08 (left) and .06 (right) for a total toe of .10
Could that be the source of my vibration? According to the print out its in the green.
Then again my back end has a toe of .18 and .06 totaling .24 but I dont know if that would make the steering wheel shake yet not feel it throughout the whole cabin.
So far I changed the sway bar end links, sway bar bushings, tie rod ends, rotors and pads, balanced tires and finally had the front aligned.
Once I get to about 70+ the vibration goes away.
The reading on my front end for toe is .08 (left) and .06 (right) for a total toe of .10
Could that be the source of my vibration? According to the print out its in the green.
Then again my back end has a toe of .18 and .06 totaling .24 but I dont know if that would make the steering wheel shake yet not feel it throughout the whole cabin.
Your toe readings are on the mid-high side.
I would def get that 0.08 down to 0.05 or less and the right down too. Basically with the toe on the higher side, I can bet your steering right now has a light feel to it i.e. very easy to move side to side.
Once you get that toe on each side to under 0.05 u will notice the steering actually get tighter... bmw tight
why i say that.... my 330 has that steering feel!
Your toe readings are on the mid-high side.
I would def get that 0.08 down to 0.05 or less and the right down too. Basically with the toe on the higher side, I can bet your steering right now has a light feel to it i.e. very easy to move side to side.
Once you get that toe on each side to under 0.05 u will notice the steering actually get tighter... bmw tight why i say that.... my 330 has that steering feel!
I would def get that 0.08 down to 0.05 or less and the right down too. Basically with the toe on the higher side, I can bet your steering right now has a light feel to it i.e. very easy to move side to side.
Once you get that toe on each side to under 0.05 u will notice the steering actually get tighter... bmw tight
why i say that.... my 330 has that steering feel!If it was done last week... tell the shop something doesnt feel right and the car is wondering so pls check again
They will surely do it again. Also, read up the FSM suspension section it explains the alignment specs very well. I think its SU-7 onwards. Read about the toe. The setting is critical.
If you can see the guy when hes working on your car and ask him if he can get that L/R toe into the range. I just checked the FSM and the total toe actually should be 0.00(min) - 0.04(nominal) - 0.08(high).
That 0.1 is the steering turning angle as described on SU-8.
The toe numbers are described on SU-7.
So basically your total toe i.e. steering is fine but your toe in numbers are off which should come down into the specified range.
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