Can anyone identify the signal plate/gear for the crank sensor? (pic)
07-11-2010, 01:35 PM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 621
Can anyone identify the signal plate/gear for the crank sensor? (pic)
In this pic i took from a 4th gen thread , i see where the crank position sensor would go in the bell housing, but i can't seem to see the signal plate for the sensor to pick up the signal?
the reason why i ask is i am still having an extended crank every now and then, the starter engages and spins but sometimes the engine just cranks and cranks then finally starts.
i still have a dtc p1136 crank pos. sensor circuit, and i thought i had it fixed by replacing my crank sensor, but it is still doing it...i wonder if the previous owner had installed the flyweel incorrectly.
the reason why i ask is i am still having an extended crank every now and then, the starter engages and spins but sometimes the engine just cranks and cranks then finally starts.
i still have a dtc p1136 crank pos. sensor circuit, and i thought i had it fixed by replacing my crank sensor, but it is still doing it...i wonder if the previous owner had installed the flyweel incorrectly.
Last edited by Amave; 07-12-2010 at 07:49 AM.
07-12-2010, 06:30 AM
#4
I'll try to weigh in with a couple of hopefully helpful tips:
1: I can't find any p1135 DTC in my mitchell program. I'm very familiar with the P0335 ckps dtc, I've been dealing with it for months now.
I did find p1335 tho, it calls itself "CKP Sensor (REF) (Maxima Only): Compression TDC signal is determined by CMP Sensor & CKP (POS) Signal. Ignition timing will be delayed up to 2 degrees.
I *think* that's what you meant to type? Sounds to me like you've got a communication issue between your CKPS and your CMP sensor(s). If I remember correctly, the 3.0's have two CKPS' and one CMP? Where the 3.5's have one CKPS and two CMP's. So on top of your new CKPS, it may be a CMP failing you as well, causing the communication issue. That is, if p1335 is what you meant to type......
2: There's only one way to put the flywheel on, there's a dowel pin in the crank that lines up with the hole in the flywheel, hard to screw that up.
The CKPS signal ring looks a lot like a concrete cutting sawblade, it'll be sandwiched between the engine and the flywheel. It is riveted to the flywheel for our cars, and is "clocked" per the dowel pin so that the breaks in the breaks (it's not dimpled a full 360 deg) give the CKPS a starting point to tell the ECU where TDC is.
1: I can't find any p1135 DTC in my mitchell program. I'm very familiar with the P0335 ckps dtc, I've been dealing with it for months now.
I did find p1335 tho, it calls itself "CKP Sensor (REF) (Maxima Only): Compression TDC signal is determined by CMP Sensor & CKP (POS) Signal. Ignition timing will be delayed up to 2 degrees.
I *think* that's what you meant to type? Sounds to me like you've got a communication issue between your CKPS and your CMP sensor(s). If I remember correctly, the 3.0's have two CKPS' and one CMP? Where the 3.5's have one CKPS and two CMP's. So on top of your new CKPS, it may be a CMP failing you as well, causing the communication issue. That is, if p1335 is what you meant to type......
2: There's only one way to put the flywheel on, there's a dowel pin in the crank that lines up with the hole in the flywheel, hard to screw that up.
The CKPS signal ring looks a lot like a concrete cutting sawblade, it'll be sandwiched between the engine and the flywheel. It is riveted to the flywheel for our cars, and is "clocked" per the dowel pin so that the breaks in the breaks (it's not dimpled a full 360 deg) give the CKPS a starting point to tell the ECU where TDC is.
07-12-2010, 07:45 AM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 621
I'll try to weigh in with a couple of hopefully helpful tips:
1: I can't find any p1135 DTC in my mitchell program. I'm very familiar with the P0335 ckps dtc, I've been dealing with it for months now.
I did find p1335 tho, it calls itself "CKP Sensor (REF) (Maxima Only): Compression TDC signal is determined by CMP Sensor & CKP (POS) Signal. Ignition timing will be delayed up to 2 degrees.
I *think* that's what you meant to type? Sounds to me like you've got a communication issue between your CKPS and your CMP sensor(s). If I remember correctly, the 3.0's have two CKPS' and one CMP? Where the 3.5's have one CKPS and two CMP's. So on top of your new CKPS, it may be a CMP failing you as well, causing the communication issue. That is, if p1335 is what you meant to type......
2: There's only one way to put the flywheel on, there's a dowel pin in the crank that lines up with the hole in the flywheel, hard to screw that up.
The CKPS signal ring looks a lot like a concrete cutting sawblade, it'll be sandwiched between the engine and the flywheel. It is riveted to the flywheel for our cars, and is "clocked" per the dowel pin so that the breaks in the breaks (it's not dimpled a full 360 deg) give the CKPS a starting point to tell the ECU where TDC is.
1: I can't find any p1135 DTC in my mitchell program. I'm very familiar with the P0335 ckps dtc, I've been dealing with it for months now.
I did find p1335 tho, it calls itself "CKP Sensor (REF) (Maxima Only): Compression TDC signal is determined by CMP Sensor & CKP (POS) Signal. Ignition timing will be delayed up to 2 degrees.
I *think* that's what you meant to type? Sounds to me like you've got a communication issue between your CKPS and your CMP sensor(s). If I remember correctly, the 3.0's have two CKPS' and one CMP? Where the 3.5's have one CKPS and two CMP's. So on top of your new CKPS, it may be a CMP failing you as well, causing the communication issue. That is, if p1335 is what you meant to type......
2: There's only one way to put the flywheel on, there's a dowel pin in the crank that lines up with the hole in the flywheel, hard to screw that up.
The CKPS signal ring looks a lot like a concrete cutting sawblade, it'll be sandwiched between the engine and the flywheel. It is riveted to the flywheel for our cars, and is "clocked" per the dowel pin so that the breaks in the breaks (it's not dimpled a full 360 deg) give the CKPS a starting point to tell the ECU where TDC is.
awsome info , i appreciate you taking the time to post this. And yes you are right, my mistake the DTC was P1336, crank position sensor circuit malf. that senses the signal plate
i saw the diagnostic trouble tree and one of the possibilities was the flywheel , i know it is clocked and my theory was the previous owner might not have installed it correctly. Unless it only goes on ONE way and NO other way. Then it's either the signal plate on flywheel or the sensor circuit...
It looks like the crank position sensor located o nthe oil pan/bell housing is the one used to determine TDC, my guess is if the ECM cannot find/locate TDC using this sensor, it will use the CMP and crank sensor on the crank pulley for reference and set the dtc p1336.....i'm going to get to the bottom of this
Last edited by Amave; 07-12-2010 at 07:49 AM.
07-12-2010, 09:35 AM
#6
No problem, here's what I pulled on a P1336:
SELF-DIAGNOSTICS -2000 Nissan Maxima SE Page 1 of 1
i '
D?C ConBirfnatioin Test (DTG PA 336) ;.:-
Malfunction is detected when ECM detects chipping of flywheel or drive plate teeth. Possible causes are:
o CKP sensor (POS) circuit open or shorted.
o Defective CKP sensor (POS).
o Damaged flywheel or drive plate.
To set DTC, turn ignition on. Select DATA MONITOR with scan tool. Start engine and let it idle for at least 70
seconds.
SELF-DIAGNOSTICS -2000 Nissan Maxima SE Page 1 of I
1. Turn ignition off. Loosen and retighten 2 engine ground bolts located near oil filler cap. Disconnect CKP
sensor (POS) sub-harness connector. See Fig. 10 or Fig. 11 . Turn ignition on. Measure voltage between
ground and CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector terminal No. 4 (RedIGreen wire). If battery voltage
exists, go to next step. If battery voltage does not exist, repair open or short circuit and retest system. See
WIRING DIAGRAMS article.
2. Turn ignition off. Check continuity between engine ground and CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector
terminal No. 2 (Black wire). Also check circuit for short to voltage. Repair as necessary and retest
system. If ground circuit is okay, go to next step.
3. Disconnect ECM harness connector. See Fig. 1. Check continuity of White wire between CKP sensor
(POS) sub-harness connector terminal No. 1 and ECM harness connector terminal No. 85. See Fig. 2.
Also check circuit for short to ground and short to voltage. Repair as necessary and retest system. If
circuit is okay, go to next step.
4. Disconnect CKP sensor (POS) harness connector. See Fig. 18. Check continuity of wires between CKP
sensor (POS) harness connector and CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector. See WIRING
DIAGRAMS article. Also check circuits for short to ground and short to voltage. Repair as necessary and
retest system. If circuits are okay, go to next step.
5. Ensure CKP sensor (POS) and wire harness clamp are installed correctly. See Fie. 19. For DTC P0335,
go to next step. For DTC P1336, loosen and retighten CKP sensor (POS). Reconnect all harness
connectors and perform DTC CONFIMATPON TEST (DTG P13361. If DTC P1336 is present, go to
next step. If DTC P1336 is not present, test is complete.
6. Remove CKP sensor (POS). Inspect sensor for chipping. Replace sensor, if it is damaged. If sensor is
okay, reconnect all harness connectors. Turn ignition on. Measure voltage between ground and ECM
terminal No. 85 by backprobing. While observing voltmeter, briefly touch CKP sensor core with a
screwdriver. While screwdriver is contacting sensor core, voltage should be about 5 volts. With
screwdriver removed, voltage should be about zero volts. If voltage is as specified, go to next step. If
voltage is not as specified, replace CKP sensor (POS) and retest system.
7. Turn ignition off. Disconnect CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector. Check continuity between
engine ground and CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector terminal No. 3. See WIRING DIAGRAMS
article. Also check circuit for short to voltage. Repair as necessary and retest system. If shield circuit is
okay, go to next step.
8. For DTC P0335, go to next step. For DTC P1336, inspect flywheel or drive plate teeth for chipping.
Replace flywheel or drive plate, if necessary and retest system. If flywheel or drive plate is okay, go to
next step.
9. No problem is indicated at this time. Problem may be intermittent. See TESTING PROCEDURE under
SELF-DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM in SELF-DIAGNOSTICS - INTRODUCTION article.
O 2008 Mitchell Repair Information Co., LLC.
Sorry for the random letter errors, the mitchell program makes it difficult to copy/paste, but I don't feel like fixing every one
If you need any help deciphering some of that, let me know.
SELF-DIAGNOSTICS -2000 Nissan Maxima SE Page 1 of 1
i '
D?C ConBirfnatioin Test (DTG PA 336) ;.:-
Malfunction is detected when ECM detects chipping of flywheel or drive plate teeth. Possible causes are:
o CKP sensor (POS) circuit open or shorted.
o Defective CKP sensor (POS).
o Damaged flywheel or drive plate.
To set DTC, turn ignition on. Select DATA MONITOR with scan tool. Start engine and let it idle for at least 70
seconds.
SELF-DIAGNOSTICS -2000 Nissan Maxima SE Page 1 of I
1. Turn ignition off. Loosen and retighten 2 engine ground bolts located near oil filler cap. Disconnect CKP
sensor (POS) sub-harness connector. See Fig. 10 or Fig. 11 . Turn ignition on. Measure voltage between
ground and CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector terminal No. 4 (RedIGreen wire). If battery voltage
exists, go to next step. If battery voltage does not exist, repair open or short circuit and retest system. See
WIRING DIAGRAMS article.
2. Turn ignition off. Check continuity between engine ground and CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector
terminal No. 2 (Black wire). Also check circuit for short to voltage. Repair as necessary and retest
system. If ground circuit is okay, go to next step.
3. Disconnect ECM harness connector. See Fig. 1. Check continuity of White wire between CKP sensor
(POS) sub-harness connector terminal No. 1 and ECM harness connector terminal No. 85. See Fig. 2.
Also check circuit for short to ground and short to voltage. Repair as necessary and retest system. If
circuit is okay, go to next step.
4. Disconnect CKP sensor (POS) harness connector. See Fig. 18. Check continuity of wires between CKP
sensor (POS) harness connector and CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector. See WIRING
DIAGRAMS article. Also check circuits for short to ground and short to voltage. Repair as necessary and
retest system. If circuits are okay, go to next step.
5. Ensure CKP sensor (POS) and wire harness clamp are installed correctly. See Fie. 19. For DTC P0335,
go to next step. For DTC P1336, loosen and retighten CKP sensor (POS). Reconnect all harness
connectors and perform DTC CONFIMATPON TEST (DTG P13361. If DTC P1336 is present, go to
next step. If DTC P1336 is not present, test is complete.
6. Remove CKP sensor (POS). Inspect sensor for chipping. Replace sensor, if it is damaged. If sensor is
okay, reconnect all harness connectors. Turn ignition on. Measure voltage between ground and ECM
terminal No. 85 by backprobing. While observing voltmeter, briefly touch CKP sensor core with a
screwdriver. While screwdriver is contacting sensor core, voltage should be about 5 volts. With
screwdriver removed, voltage should be about zero volts. If voltage is as specified, go to next step. If
voltage is not as specified, replace CKP sensor (POS) and retest system.
7. Turn ignition off. Disconnect CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector. Check continuity between
engine ground and CKP sensor (POS) sub-harness connector terminal No. 3. See WIRING DIAGRAMS
article. Also check circuit for short to voltage. Repair as necessary and retest system. If shield circuit is
okay, go to next step.
8. For DTC P0335, go to next step. For DTC P1336, inspect flywheel or drive plate teeth for chipping.
Replace flywheel or drive plate, if necessary and retest system. If flywheel or drive plate is okay, go to
next step.
9. No problem is indicated at this time. Problem may be intermittent. See TESTING PROCEDURE under
SELF-DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM in SELF-DIAGNOSTICS - INTRODUCTION article.
O 2008 Mitchell Repair Information Co., LLC.
Sorry for the random letter errors, the mitchell program makes it difficult to copy/paste, but I don't feel like fixing every one
If you need any help deciphering some of that, let me know.
07-12-2010, 01:30 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 621
well, i think i might have gotten t the root of the problem.
i removed and cleaned grounds # F40 & F42 on the engine next to oil filler cap
2nd i disconnected connector # F25 ( CKP harness on main harness side ) & got equal to battery voltage ( 12.4 volts ) so that was ok
3rd i checked continuity from harness connector F25 terminal 2 and engine ground ( F42 ) and that was ok ...
4th i removed the ECM connector & checked for continuity between terminal #85 ( white wire ) on ECM harness connector ( F48 gray connector ) & connector F25 terminal #1and got good continuity.
5th i disconnected the F172 connector & F171 connector & checked for continuity between terminal #1 & 2= ok , between terminal #2 & 1= ok, terminal # 3 & 4=ok..
i had good continuity in the wiring harness from the crank sensor to main wiring harness connector male side...
6th i removed the plastic ECM connecotr retainer & reconnected the ECM connector to the ECM , i removed the crank position sensor fro mthe oil pan/bell housing and using my voltmeter i measured voltage at the #85 terminal back probe & engine ground , i used a flatblade screwdriver to attach to the magnet and had 5 volts when attached & 0 volts when removed.....so that circuit is ok
te funny thing is after i put everything back together , i tried to start it up and it started strong....i thought " WTF?"....
so i removed the CKP harness at the senso and applied dielectric grease to the connector and just for the hell of it i zip tied the conector tight to the sensor ( the connector had lost it's locking tab ) and i tried to start it several times to get it to " act up " and it still hasn't acted up.
It fired right up ever single time, for about 6 or 7 times....hhhhhmmmmm???
I wonder if the connector at the sensor is working itself loose ( because of the missing green lock tab ) and backing out causing the ECM to lose reference signal???
I haven't cleared the DTC yet, i will give it a few more hundred miles to see how it acts.....
so after all is said and done, i found out electrically all of my circuits are ok....mechanically i am hoping . I don't really want to drop the transmission to replace the flywheel , the clutch is semi-new ( previous owner replaced clutch when the old trans. took a dump ) ...
i got my fingers crossed
i removed and cleaned grounds # F40 & F42 on the engine next to oil filler cap
2nd i disconnected connector # F25 ( CKP harness on main harness side ) & got equal to battery voltage ( 12.4 volts ) so that was ok
3rd i checked continuity from harness connector F25 terminal 2 and engine ground ( F42 ) and that was ok ...
4th i removed the ECM connector & checked for continuity between terminal #85 ( white wire ) on ECM harness connector ( F48 gray connector ) & connector F25 terminal #1and got good continuity.
5th i disconnected the F172 connector & F171 connector & checked for continuity between terminal #1 & 2= ok , between terminal #2 & 1= ok, terminal # 3 & 4=ok..
i had good continuity in the wiring harness from the crank sensor to main wiring harness connector male side...
6th i removed the plastic ECM connecotr retainer & reconnected the ECM connector to the ECM , i removed the crank position sensor fro mthe oil pan/bell housing and using my voltmeter i measured voltage at the #85 terminal back probe & engine ground , i used a flatblade screwdriver to attach to the magnet and had 5 volts when attached & 0 volts when removed.....so that circuit is ok
te funny thing is after i put everything back together , i tried to start it up and it started strong....i thought " WTF?"....
so i removed the CKP harness at the senso and applied dielectric grease to the connector and just for the hell of it i zip tied the conector tight to the sensor ( the connector had lost it's locking tab ) and i tried to start it several times to get it to " act up " and it still hasn't acted up.
It fired right up ever single time, for about 6 or 7 times....hhhhhmmmmm???
I wonder if the connector at the sensor is working itself loose ( because of the missing green lock tab ) and backing out causing the ECM to lose reference signal???
I haven't cleared the DTC yet, i will give it a few more hundred miles to see how it acts.....
so after all is said and done, i found out electrically all of my circuits are ok....mechanically i am hoping . I don't really want to drop the transmission to replace the flywheel , the clutch is semi-new ( previous owner replaced clutch when the old trans. took a dump ) ...
i got my fingers crossed
07-12-2010, 02:37 PM
#8
I wonder if the connector at the sensor is working itself loose ( because of the missing green lock tab ) and backing out causing the ECM to lose reference signal???
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