Complete loss of throttle
07-20-2010, 08:35 AM
#1
Complete loss of throttle
This is an intermittent problem that I am/was having with my 2002 Maxima.
The very first occurrence was many years ago, probably within months of when I purchased the car new. I pulled out onto the interstate, went into the throttle about 80-100% and lost all throttle and throttle response. At that time I pulled over, turned off then restarted the car after 5-10 seconds and it has worked fine ever since. I had chalked that one up to the pedal stopper recall at the time, the only problem was that I already had the pedal stopper.
Fast forward to the present, no other throttle issues have ever taken place even after all this car has been through. Then one day it happens. The car has zero throttle one morning after I start it as I am trying to leave for work. I assume my throttle body's TPS has gone bad. A couple of hours later I have a $50 junkyard throttle body installed on the car and the car runs perfectly. Problem solved, or so I thought.
A few weeks, and out of state trips, later the car does it once again. I start the car to leave work and have no throttle. I have to jam a screwdriver into the throttle plate so that car has enough throttle to drive up the ramp into the office where I work. The car sits in the warehouse over the weekend with the battery disconnected and when i return to start it the same problem exists. I even borrow a known working throttle body from another .org member to test and I get the same results. I now have three TBs for the testing and the car had no throttle.
Some time later, I don't remember how long, I install the original TB, the one I had thought was broken, and start the car. Miraculously the car runs perfectly. Why? I don't know. My OBD-II scanner was in my laptop bag that was stolen a few weeks before so I had no way to read the signals. The car drives perfectly for a few more weeks, just as strange as it stopped working, it had begun working.
Then one day I am driving home I pull out into traffic and it happens. All throttle is gone and I have to immediately coast off to the side of the road so that I don't get hit by another vehicle. I try to "reboot" the ECU as I have in the past. Nothing works, except what I had forgotten to mention in the previous paragraphs is that I do have some minute amount of throttle control. I can get it to rev to 1500rpm. Fortunately for me I have a six speed manual gearbox, so i manage to use this tiny bit of throttle to hobble the car along for about a half mile to get it into a hotel parking lot. From there I try all the known throttle relearn procedures and nothing works. I don't really want to have the thing towed, even though I have AAA so I open the hood and unplug a few small vacuum lines. Now I have a little but more throttle, so I turn on the hazards and hobble along till I get about halfway home. People behind me aren't happy on the road but at least I can get the thing up to 50mph going down some hills. This gets annoying so I pull over again and this time a jam the end of a zip tie into the throttle plate. This gives me enough throttle to cruise at 50-60mph on flat ground so I cruise all the way home. That stunt is quite dangerous so I strongly recommend that no one else do that if you can avoid it.
Yesterday, after the car sat in my garage for a few more weeks while I was working on Deckdout2's project Maxima, I try again to get my car running. I had ordered a brand new Hitachi throttle body in hopes that it would solve the problems. I had also been looking for a new accelerator pedal sensor but apparently the A33B is the only car in existence to use this pedal and it is expensive. You can't just buy the APS, you have to buy the entire pedal assembly and most places want over $200 for them.
After some examination with the cipher (courtesy of Deckdout2), I notice that both APS voltages are reading perfectly. So it appears I do not need to replace the pedal. I install the brand new TB and it still does not work. The Cipher is however showing some odd TPS voltages. TPS1 is a constant 1.5x volts while TPS2 is a constant 0.69 volts. From what I gather, TPS2 is correct and the ECU shows a TPS code. I think it was P0221. Code P1122 was also present. That code could be reset but P0221 would immediately return. I wanted to follow the ESM diagnostic procedures but I could not seem to find my multimeter. I was just about to give up for the day then I decided to try a couple more things. I unplugged my eManage and started the car. That did not solve the problem. Even though the eManage (when conneced0 was tapped into the TPS1 signal, the Cipher still showed the odd 1.5 volt TPS signal. I reconnected the eManage and this time I disconnected the throttle body control. I started the car and the Cipher reported 4.7x volts for both TPS1 and TPS2. I suppose this seemed right since most Nissan circuits are ground switched. Perhaps this was just the supply voltage. And while the car was running I reconnected the throttle body plug. I checked the Cipher once more and this time both TPS 1&2 showed 0.69 volts. I cleared the codes, the CEL went off and no codes returned. The throttle worked perfectly as it should. I turned off the car, waited ten seconds and restarted it and all was still fine. Odd.
I am not certain this problem will not reoccur. I just hope it does not happen again while I am actually driving the car, or worse, out of state. I just wanted to bring this to the attention of Maxima.org to see if anyone else is having or has had similar throttle problems. As well as publish what may be a way to fix the problem on the spot. I do not know if it is being caused by the eManage or by something else.
I know there may be some details I left out so fire away with the questions and comments. I want to get this problem resolved for good and perhaps along the way help someone else who is dealing with it as well.
The very first occurrence was many years ago, probably within months of when I purchased the car new. I pulled out onto the interstate, went into the throttle about 80-100% and lost all throttle and throttle response. At that time I pulled over, turned off then restarted the car after 5-10 seconds and it has worked fine ever since. I had chalked that one up to the pedal stopper recall at the time, the only problem was that I already had the pedal stopper.
Fast forward to the present, no other throttle issues have ever taken place even after all this car has been through. Then one day it happens. The car has zero throttle one morning after I start it as I am trying to leave for work. I assume my throttle body's TPS has gone bad. A couple of hours later I have a $50 junkyard throttle body installed on the car and the car runs perfectly. Problem solved, or so I thought.
A few weeks, and out of state trips, later the car does it once again. I start the car to leave work and have no throttle. I have to jam a screwdriver into the throttle plate so that car has enough throttle to drive up the ramp into the office where I work. The car sits in the warehouse over the weekend with the battery disconnected and when i return to start it the same problem exists. I even borrow a known working throttle body from another .org member to test and I get the same results. I now have three TBs for the testing and the car had no throttle.
Some time later, I don't remember how long, I install the original TB, the one I had thought was broken, and start the car. Miraculously the car runs perfectly. Why? I don't know. My OBD-II scanner was in my laptop bag that was stolen a few weeks before so I had no way to read the signals. The car drives perfectly for a few more weeks, just as strange as it stopped working, it had begun working.
Then one day I am driving home I pull out into traffic and it happens. All throttle is gone and I have to immediately coast off to the side of the road so that I don't get hit by another vehicle. I try to "reboot" the ECU as I have in the past. Nothing works, except what I had forgotten to mention in the previous paragraphs is that I do have some minute amount of throttle control. I can get it to rev to 1500rpm. Fortunately for me I have a six speed manual gearbox, so i manage to use this tiny bit of throttle to hobble the car along for about a half mile to get it into a hotel parking lot. From there I try all the known throttle relearn procedures and nothing works. I don't really want to have the thing towed, even though I have AAA so I open the hood and unplug a few small vacuum lines. Now I have a little but more throttle, so I turn on the hazards and hobble along till I get about halfway home. People behind me aren't happy on the road but at least I can get the thing up to 50mph going down some hills. This gets annoying so I pull over again and this time a jam the end of a zip tie into the throttle plate. This gives me enough throttle to cruise at 50-60mph on flat ground so I cruise all the way home. That stunt is quite dangerous so I strongly recommend that no one else do that if you can avoid it.
Yesterday, after the car sat in my garage for a few more weeks while I was working on Deckdout2's project Maxima, I try again to get my car running. I had ordered a brand new Hitachi throttle body in hopes that it would solve the problems. I had also been looking for a new accelerator pedal sensor but apparently the A33B is the only car in existence to use this pedal and it is expensive. You can't just buy the APS, you have to buy the entire pedal assembly and most places want over $200 for them.
After some examination with the cipher (courtesy of Deckdout2), I notice that both APS voltages are reading perfectly. So it appears I do not need to replace the pedal. I install the brand new TB and it still does not work. The Cipher is however showing some odd TPS voltages. TPS1 is a constant 1.5x volts while TPS2 is a constant 0.69 volts. From what I gather, TPS2 is correct and the ECU shows a TPS code. I think it was P0221. Code P1122 was also present. That code could be reset but P0221 would immediately return. I wanted to follow the ESM diagnostic procedures but I could not seem to find my multimeter. I was just about to give up for the day then I decided to try a couple more things. I unplugged my eManage and started the car. That did not solve the problem. Even though the eManage (when conneced0 was tapped into the TPS1 signal, the Cipher still showed the odd 1.5 volt TPS signal. I reconnected the eManage and this time I disconnected the throttle body control. I started the car and the Cipher reported 4.7x volts for both TPS1 and TPS2. I suppose this seemed right since most Nissan circuits are ground switched. Perhaps this was just the supply voltage. And while the car was running I reconnected the throttle body plug. I checked the Cipher once more and this time both TPS 1&2 showed 0.69 volts. I cleared the codes, the CEL went off and no codes returned. The throttle worked perfectly as it should. I turned off the car, waited ten seconds and restarted it and all was still fine. Odd.
I am not certain this problem will not reoccur. I just hope it does not happen again while I am actually driving the car, or worse, out of state. I just wanted to bring this to the attention of Maxima.org to see if anyone else is having or has had similar throttle problems. As well as publish what may be a way to fix the problem on the spot. I do not know if it is being caused by the eManage or by something else.
I know there may be some details I left out so fire away with the questions and comments. I want to get this problem resolved for good and perhaps along the way help someone else who is dealing with it as well.
07-20-2010, 08:46 AM
#2
Im glad you figured this out. Did you by chance try one of the "old" TBs? I'm curious as to if this "reset" may be the answer to all these failing TBs arounf here.
Good job, as usual.
Good job, as usual.
07-20-2010, 08:50 AM
#3
I have not re-tested the old TBs. I am afraid to right now since I am taking this car on vacation next week. I need it to work, and work perfectly. Maybe I will test them when I get back. But I suspect they will.
07-20-2010, 08:55 AM
#4
I was about to call you and ask you if the eManage has something to do with this. Similar to getting off the wall readings when I didn't have the APS 1 & 2 and TPS 2 hooked up on the UTEC. Also is the connection between the Greddy and the ECU spliced in (I'm assuming), I'm wondering if connections are still secure in that area. Just a thought.
07-20-2010, 08:40 PM
#5
It happened again tonight when I was trying to leave the house for a bit. I got almost all the way out of the neighborhood before I realized the throttle wasn't working properly. I am thinking it does have something to do with either the eManage or the Zeitronix wideband. I tried to do a quick reset on it but it didn't work. I didn't have time to connect the Cipher so I had to try again when I got home and when I finally got back to it I noticed the TPS voltages looked fine. So I reset the codes with the cipher and restarted the car and it started working again. Another issue with this time is that I was previously trying to flatten out the fuel trims by making changes in the eManage. Either way, the car is running again and I have unplugged the TPS signal from the Zeitronix. Hopefully that solves the problem. We'll see.
07-20-2010, 08:58 PM
#6
it sounds like there is a problem within either the wire harness or the ECU. The voltages on the TPS sensors 1 and 2 should be opposite each other. TPS 1 should read 0V (near 0) when throttle is released and 5V when throttle depressed. TPS 2 should be 5V at no throttle and 0V at full throttle. you could have a problem with the TPS 1 signal from the ECU, I would find your multimeter or buy a new one and probe the signal at both the ECU connector and the TB for both sensors at both full and 0 throttle and see if they are the same.
07-21-2010, 06:34 AM
#7
I ran into this sort of problem kind of a lot when I was tapping TPS for both SAFC and my PLX WB signals. What I actually ended up doing was adding more chassis grounds to my ECU. Little green screws & wires from Lowe's. That helped, it actually hasn't done the same since, and it's been a couple of years.
I'd hear a sorta noise, like when you turn on a light bulb and it burns, and then wham, into FS mode. Usually after a 50% or greater throttle opening.
I'd hear a sorta noise, like when you turn on a light bulb and it burns, and then wham, into FS mode. Usually after a 50% or greater throttle opening.
07-21-2010, 01:33 PM
#8
I ran into this sort of problem kind of a lot when I was tapping TPS for both SAFC and my PLX WB signals. What I actually ended up doing was adding more chassis grounds to my ECU. Little green screws & wires from Lowe's. That helped, it actually hasn't done the same since, and it's been a couple of years.
I'd hear a sorta noise, like when you turn on a light bulb and it burns, and then wham, into FS mode. Usually after a 50% or greater throttle opening.
I'd hear a sorta noise, like when you turn on a light bulb and it burns, and then wham, into FS mode. Usually after a 50% or greater throttle opening.
07-21-2010, 02:00 PM
#9
I would log TPS/APS signals via Cipher when it (FS) would happen, and I noticed that the values were erratic from the sensor signal I had my accesory units wired to. After I threw in the new grounds, the jumpy/erratic voltages went away, after all, that deviation is what caused it. So yeah, smart idea re: grounding.
08-20-2010, 12:45 PM
#10
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15
I just had this problem about a month after I bought the car (used 85k miles). It's a manual 2002 SE.
I started it up, sat for a second messing with the radio or AC, then i went to blip the throttle and shift into reverse when I realized the RPM wasn't jumping up. Even at full throttle the rpm only went up 1k every 2 seconds or so when stopped.
I turned the car off.. waited about 5 seconds and restarted. It's been ok for the rest of the day today so far. Do we have an electronic TB or is it just a hard line and a sensor that determines the TB position?
Also, the car has no aftermarket performance 'bits'.
I started it up, sat for a second messing with the radio or AC, then i went to blip the throttle and shift into reverse when I realized the RPM wasn't jumping up. Even at full throttle the rpm only went up 1k every 2 seconds or so when stopped.
I turned the car off.. waited about 5 seconds and restarted. It's been ok for the rest of the day today so far. Do we have an electronic TB or is it just a hard line and a sensor that determines the TB position?
Also, the car has no aftermarket performance 'bits'.
08-20-2010, 12:58 PM
#11
I just had this problem about a month after I bought the car (used 85k miles). It's a manual 2002 SE.
I started it up, sat for a second messing with the radio or AC, then i went to blip the throttle and shift into reverse when I realized the RPM wasn't jumping up. Even at full throttle the rpm only went up 1k every 2 seconds or so when stopped.
I turned the car off.. waited about 5 seconds and restarted. It's been ok for the rest of the day today so far. Do we have an electronic TB or is it just a hard line and a sensor that determines the TB position?
Also, the car has no aftermarket performance 'bits'.
I started it up, sat for a second messing with the radio or AC, then i went to blip the throttle and shift into reverse when I realized the RPM wasn't jumping up. Even at full throttle the rpm only went up 1k every 2 seconds or so when stopped.
I turned the car off.. waited about 5 seconds and restarted. It's been ok for the rest of the day today so far. Do we have an electronic TB or is it just a hard line and a sensor that determines the TB position?
Also, the car has no aftermarket performance 'bits'.
08-20-2010, 08:35 PM
#13
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10
I also have a 02 6 speed and I am having sorta the same issues. I can be driving to work and all the sudden I lose throttle. Press the gas and still nothing. I do not lose rpm's but while pressing the throttle nothing happens. I can push in on the clutch and release it and it goes back to working as it should any ideas I really need to fix this problem? I assumed it was the tps but all help would be greatly appreciated.
08-20-2010, 10:31 PM
#16
sounds like this only happens to those with wired in modifications to the TB for the SAFC, E-manage, WB, etc...it's stuff like this that makes me second guess chopping, splicing into that perfectly good chassis harness.....I'm scary like that....
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