Front end vibration only at certain speed
07-23-2010, 05:57 AM
#1
Front end vibration only at certain speed
We just completed a 2.8K mile trip from FL to Niagara and back.
My 01 gle now has 195K - auto trans.
On the way we visited family in MD and I have to say I had to drive on some of the worst roads I have ever driven in my life!!
To make it short... since my return, I have noticed a vibration that can be felt as the car goes over 60 and then vanishes as you cross 70... its only in that zone.
What have I checked so far?
- Wheels/tires have been balanced twice on a regular balancer and a hunter GSP9700. The road force was slightly off on one of the tires but the tech said it wasnt high enough to not balance out for a good ride. The tires are Michelin MXV4 with about 20K miles on them. Excellent tread all around.
- Checked the front wheels for 9-3 and 12-6 play. I could really not find any play in either left or right wheels. The inner tie rods have about 30K on them and the out tie rods have about 60K on them.
- I keep my front pressures at 34psi.
- Have Illuminas all around on stock SE springs.
- LCA's have about 40K on them.
- New motor mounts all around with under 5K on them.
Any pointers where I should look?
My gut feeling is making me think:
- Probable outer tie rod issue.
- Wheel bearings. The car is still on original bearings. What do I say
FL roads have been really good for us.
- CV joints.
Input appreciated.
My 01 gle now has 195K - auto trans.
On the way we visited family in MD and I have to say I had to drive on some of the worst roads I have ever driven in my life!!
To make it short... since my return, I have noticed a vibration that can be felt as the car goes over 60 and then vanishes as you cross 70... its only in that zone.
What have I checked so far?
- Wheels/tires have been balanced twice on a regular balancer and a hunter GSP9700. The road force was slightly off on one of the tires but the tech said it wasnt high enough to not balance out for a good ride. The tires are Michelin MXV4 with about 20K miles on them. Excellent tread all around.
- Checked the front wheels for 9-3 and 12-6 play. I could really not find any play in either left or right wheels. The inner tie rods have about 30K on them and the out tie rods have about 60K on them.
- I keep my front pressures at 34psi.
- Have Illuminas all around on stock SE springs.
- LCA's have about 40K on them.
- New motor mounts all around with under 5K on them.
Any pointers where I should look?
My gut feeling is making me think:
- Probable outer tie rod issue.
- Wheel bearings. The car is still on original bearings. What do I say
FL roads have been really good for us.- CV joints.
Input appreciated.
07-23-2010, 06:21 AM
#2
We just completed a 2.8K mile trip from FL to Niagara and back.
My 01 gle now has 195K - auto trans.
On the way we visited family in MD and I have to say I had to drive on some of the worst roads I have ever driven in my life!!
To make it short... since my return, I have noticed a vibration that can be felt as the car goes over 60 and then vanishes as you cross 70... its only in that zone.
What have I checked so far?
- Wheels/tires have been balanced twice on a regular balancer and a hunter GSP9700. The road force was slightly off on one of the tires but the tech said it wasnt high enough to not balance out for a good ride. The tires are Michelin MXV4 with about 20K miles on them. Excellent tread all around.
- Checked the front wheels for 9-3 and 12-6 play. I could really not find any play in either left or right wheels. The inner tie rods have about 30K on them and the out tie rods have about 60K on them.
- I keep my front pressures at 34psi.
- Have Illuminas all around on stock SE springs.
- LCA's have about 40K on them.
- New motor mounts all around with under 5K on them.
Any pointers where I should look?
My gut feeling is making me think:
- Probable outer tie rod issue.
- Wheel bearings. The car is still on original bearings. What do I say FL roads have been really good for us.
- CV joints.
Input appreciated.
My 01 gle now has 195K - auto trans.
On the way we visited family in MD and I have to say I had to drive on some of the worst roads I have ever driven in my life!!
To make it short... since my return, I have noticed a vibration that can be felt as the car goes over 60 and then vanishes as you cross 70... its only in that zone.
What have I checked so far?
- Wheels/tires have been balanced twice on a regular balancer and a hunter GSP9700. The road force was slightly off on one of the tires but the tech said it wasnt high enough to not balance out for a good ride. The tires are Michelin MXV4 with about 20K miles on them. Excellent tread all around.
- Checked the front wheels for 9-3 and 12-6 play. I could really not find any play in either left or right wheels. The inner tie rods have about 30K on them and the out tie rods have about 60K on them.
- I keep my front pressures at 34psi.
- Have Illuminas all around on stock SE springs.
- LCA's have about 40K on them.
- New motor mounts all around with under 5K on them.
Any pointers where I should look?
My gut feeling is making me think:
- Probable outer tie rod issue.
- Wheel bearings. The car is still on original bearings. What do I say
FL roads have been really good for us.- CV joints.
Input appreciated.
any loud noises?
B
07-23-2010, 06:25 AM
#3
I dont hear any noise at all.
To be honest I have only been once in a car that had a bad rear bearing and mine is not sounding like that.
When I make turns i.e. left or right... there is a minor change in sound, but I am attributing that to the tire tread and not the moan/hum one hears from the bearing since it sounds the same on both sides.
To be on the safe side... I have started saving for new hubs and bearings anyways.
Could it be bearings but they are not gone completely yet?
I was also thinking inboard CV joint... any symptoms for those?
In addition, I read that bad bearings make this whooo... whooo... sound at lower speeds as you come to a stop. I dont have that either.
To be honest I have only been once in a car that had a bad rear bearing and mine is not sounding like that.
When I make turns i.e. left or right... there is a minor change in sound, but I am attributing that to the tire tread and not the moan/hum one hears from the bearing since it sounds the same on both sides.
To be on the safe side... I have started saving for new hubs and bearings anyways.
Could it be bearings but they are not gone completely yet?
I was also thinking inboard CV joint... any symptoms for those?
In addition, I read that bad bearings make this whooo... whooo... sound at lower speeds as you come to a stop. I dont have that either.
07-23-2010, 06:28 AM
#4
I dont hear any noise at all.
To be honest I have only been once in a car that had a bad rear bearing and mine is not sounding like that.
When I make turns i.e. left or right... there is a minor change in sound, but I am attributing that to the tire tread and not the moan/hum one hears from the bearing since it sounds the same on both sides.
To be on the safe side... I have started saving for new hubs and bearings anyways.
Could it be bearings but they are not gone completely yet?
I was also thinking inboard CV joint... any symptoms for those?
In addition, I read that bad bearings make this whooo... whooo... sound at lower speeds as you come to a stop. I dont have that either.
To be honest I have only been once in a car that had a bad rear bearing and mine is not sounding like that.
When I make turns i.e. left or right... there is a minor change in sound, but I am attributing that to the tire tread and not the moan/hum one hears from the bearing since it sounds the same on both sides.
To be on the safe side... I have started saving for new hubs and bearings anyways.
Could it be bearings but they are not gone completely yet?
I was also thinking inboard CV joint... any symptoms for those?
In addition, I read that bad bearings make this whooo... whooo... sound at lower speeds as you come to a stop. I dont have that either.
as for the CV joint...no clue. not a mechanic just have some history with wheel bearings. ive replace one on every car ive owned
B
07-23-2010, 06:33 AM
#5
I hear you.
I have read so many posts on here about wheel bearings that it amazes me that mine have lasted so long.
Also read that if miles are up there its better to swap out the hub too.
Rockauto has hubs for like $40 and the bearings are $35-$40. I guess I can get the bearings done for around $200 total including parts.
Thanks ... I think I'll try and find more ways to look for bad bearing symptoms other than the 12-6 shake since I have almost 0 play at that point.
Another point I was told was to measure the runout on the hub. I know I have had several studs cross threaded at the tire place and I have used the sledge hammer on it often so am wondering if that also contributes to this...
I have read so many posts on here about wheel bearings that it amazes me that mine have lasted so long.
Also read that if miles are up there its better to swap out the hub too.
Rockauto has hubs for like $40 and the bearings are $35-$40. I guess I can get the bearings done for around $200 total including parts.
Thanks ... I think I'll try and find more ways to look for bad bearing symptoms other than the 12-6 shake since I have almost 0 play at that point.
Another point I was told was to measure the runout on the hub. I know I have had several studs cross threaded at the tire place and I have used the sledge hammer on it often so am wondering if that also contributes to this...
07-23-2010, 06:48 AM
#6
I hear you.
I have read so many posts on here about wheel bearings that it amazes me that mine have lasted so long.
Also read that if miles are up there its better to swap out the hub too.
Rockauto has hubs for like $40 and the bearings are $35-$40. I guess I can get the bearings done for around $200 total including parts.
Thanks ... I think I'll try and find more ways to look for bad bearing symptoms other than the 12-6 shake since I have almost 0 play at that point.
Another point I was told was to measure the runout on the hub. I know I have had several studs cross threaded at the tire place and I have used the sledge hammer on it often so am wondering if that also contributes to this...
I have read so many posts on here about wheel bearings that it amazes me that mine have lasted so long.
Also read that if miles are up there its better to swap out the hub too.
Rockauto has hubs for like $40 and the bearings are $35-$40. I guess I can get the bearings done for around $200 total including parts.
Thanks ... I think I'll try and find more ways to look for bad bearing symptoms other than the 12-6 shake since I have almost 0 play at that point.
Another point I was told was to measure the runout on the hub. I know I have had several studs cross threaded at the tire place and I have used the sledge hammer on it often so am wondering if that also contributes to this...
the worst one i ever had was the one i just replaced on my 02. the bearing was so bad that the only thing holding it in place was the caliper bracket
B
07-23-2010, 07:10 AM
#8
I was under the impression that if your bearings were going, then they would go pretty fast and it would not be pleasant. But I'm out of my depth on that particular topic.
What I can say for sure is that a ball joint with a little bit of play to it could cause shaking at a particular resonance. I've got a minor issue with my driver-side ball joint, and a gentle vibration just over 65. It's so subtle as to not be an issue yet, and I'm replacing the ball joints next month anyway.
To check, my mechanic jammed a tire arm in there and applied leverage. The passenger side was solid as a rock. The driver side had a tiny bit of play. Maybe not enough for some to notice? IDK. But enough to cause this high-speed vibration? Probably.
What I can say for sure is that a ball joint with a little bit of play to it could cause shaking at a particular resonance. I've got a minor issue with my driver-side ball joint, and a gentle vibration just over 65. It's so subtle as to not be an issue yet, and I'm replacing the ball joints next month anyway.
To check, my mechanic jammed a tire arm in there and applied leverage. The passenger side was solid as a rock. The driver side had a tiny bit of play. Maybe not enough for some to notice? IDK. But enough to cause this high-speed vibration? Probably.
07-23-2010, 07:30 AM
#9
Thanks Rochester.
I'm suspecting my outer tie rods too.
I am leaning towards the same theory that minor play would resonate at a certain frequency.
I like to feel for where the vibration is coming from and for certain I know it doesnt seem to come from the wheels, it can be felt in the steering wheel but u get the feeling that the wheels are running just fine which makes be believe it might be the outer tie rod ball joints.
I had done those in 06 and a friend of mine had greased them. I have never greased them again and since i have a lifetime warranty on them and my alignment, I might as well go ahead and pop them out this weekend to further check them out.
I also tried to put a crowbar under the lca ball joints but found no play at all in them. I had bought the new LCA's from the dealer and am glad they are doing well after 60K.
I'm suspecting my outer tie rods too.
I am leaning towards the same theory that minor play would resonate at a certain frequency.
I like to feel for where the vibration is coming from and for certain I know it doesnt seem to come from the wheels, it can be felt in the steering wheel but u get the feeling that the wheels are running just fine which makes be believe it might be the outer tie rod ball joints.
I had done those in 06 and a friend of mine had greased them. I have never greased them again and since i have a lifetime warranty on them and my alignment, I might as well go ahead and pop them out this weekend to further check them out.
I also tried to put a crowbar under the lca ball joints but found no play at all in them. I had bought the new LCA's from the dealer and am glad they are doing well after 60K.
07-23-2010, 07:51 AM
#11
since this has turned out to be a kind of "whats this noise/vibration mean" thread....
ive noticed a small but audible "clunking" at normal speeds when i hit certain depressions in the road. as far as ive been told the suspension on my car is fine...old...but fine
thoughts?
B
ive noticed a small but audible "clunking" at normal speeds when i hit certain depressions in the road. as far as ive been told the suspension on my car is fine...old...but fine
thoughts?
B
07-23-2010, 08:16 AM
#14
If you have a bright enough light you should be able to see the surface cracks in the mount.
Use a crow bar to try and raise the engine near the mount to see if there are cracks in the rubber itself.
The mount is cheap and its 4/10 on the diy scale.
Use a crow bar to try and raise the engine near the mount to see if there are cracks in the rubber itself.
The mount is cheap and its 4/10 on the diy scale.
07-23-2010, 10:36 AM
#16
Woah.. Bad motor mounts make noise? I have a similar clunk that comes from the passenger side at extremely low speeds on equally extreme rough pavement in a parking lot. I know the motor mounts need to be replaced, but didn't realize they gave evidence for that short of examining them.
07-23-2010, 10:47 AM
#17
they do clunk... but so do the following:
1- strut mounts
2- lca ball joints
3- sway bar bushing
4- sway bar end links
5- outer tie rods.
u need to check each component to home in on where your issue lies.
1- strut mounts
2- lca ball joints
3- sway bar bushing
4- sway bar end links
5- outer tie rods.
u need to check each component to home in on where your issue lies.
07-23-2010, 06:14 PM
#18
vibration
i have the same problem from 55 to about 70 mph. check your tire for a small amount of cupping. i couldnt tell by just feeling over the tread i had some one put it on the balancing machine and i noticed it started jumping at one point.
i had my bearing changed less than 6k ago twice so i doubt its my bearing.
i had my bearing changed less than 6k ago twice so i doubt its my bearing.
08-13-2010, 07:35 AM
#22
For those interested, here is what i checked into:
- Rotors: brand new... no warping... no pulsing or vibration during braking.
- Tires: no uneven wear, i hv had cupping on older tires and feathering/heel-toe on my 3 series. This vibration is different, If it was a tire, the vibration comes and stays all the way even as u go over 70-75. This one starts little over 60 and goes away after 70.
- Stabilizer bar end links: replaced them just last year. In my experience, these will only cause sloppy handling, not vibration in a straight line.
- Bearings: No humming and no play at all in the wheel.
So, I thought of stuff I could have overlooked. Went back to my service history and noticed I had done outer tie rods back in 04/07.... and since then i have had about 60K miles... so this morning decided to jack up the right side and just undo the tie-rod to see how it felt.
I'm a little concerned. It's not loose the way my old ones had become but this one has spots where it siezes i.e. if you are moving the ball joint at some places it gets stuck.
Since it has a lifetime warranty(Love Moog parts) I'm going to put in both new tie rods to see if it makes a difference. Will update the thread again later.
- Rotors: brand new... no warping... no pulsing or vibration during braking.
- Tires: no uneven wear, i hv had cupping on older tires and feathering/heel-toe on my 3 series. This vibration is different, If it was a tire, the vibration comes and stays all the way even as u go over 70-75. This one starts little over 60 and goes away after 70.
- Stabilizer bar end links: replaced them just last year. In my experience, these will only cause sloppy handling, not vibration in a straight line.
- Bearings: No humming and no play at all in the wheel.
So, I thought of stuff I could have overlooked. Went back to my service history and noticed I had done outer tie rods back in 04/07.... and since then i have had about 60K miles... so this morning decided to jack up the right side and just undo the tie-rod to see how it felt.
I'm a little concerned. It's not loose the way my old ones had become but this one has spots where it siezes i.e. if you are moving the ball joint at some places it gets stuck.
Since it has a lifetime warranty(Love Moog parts) I'm going to put in both new tie rods to see if it makes a difference. Will update the thread again later.
08-13-2010, 09:42 AM
#24
Balance was done the day before I left for my roadtrip and it vibrated even as i drove home from the shop. They showed me each wheel as they balanced it on the hunter 9700 road force balancer and I even have the print out that each of tires has under 7lbs of RFV and that the rims are not bent.
I'm quite on top of things when it comes to this car. It's just that as the miles rack up... you have to start doing maintenance and narrowing down to which part is really causing you pain takes time.
I'm quite on top of things when it comes to this car. It's just that as the miles rack up... you have to start doing maintenance and narrowing down to which part is really causing you pain takes time.
08-13-2010, 09:44 AM
#25
I get the same vibration but at around 75mph. I dont know what it is exactly either. I just attributed it for me being so freakin low, but if it happens to others its obviously something else.
Last edited by essential1; 08-13-2010 at 09:48 AM.
09-02-2010, 11:26 AM
#26
Well... the end might finally be very near !!
I'm so glad I have actually reached this point.
I finally took the car back to discount tire and spoke with the mgr. He actually wanted to speak with me coz i dinged his techs pretty bad in the last review since the car vibrated worse once i drove off from there.
So this time, the mgr himself takes the wheels off, balanced each wheel on the Hunter GSP 9700. Made notes all the time.
1. For the passenger rear the Road force was like 4lbs. Big smile on his face, hes like this cannot be coz of vibration. I'm like ok.... we got 3 to go.
2. Next he puts on the passenger front. Road force shows up as 16lbs. Hes not too happy, puts the machine in diagnostic mode and had another tech shift the tire on the rim. Measures again, down to 6lbs of RF.
3. Puts the drivers front wheel on the machine, road force shows up to be 7lbs. All this time, all I am doing is watching the wheels spin to see any sign of a bent rim. So far all is good.
4. He puts the drivers rear wheel on the machine. Road force shows up to be 16lbs. I mention a comment I had read here that the maxima was sensitive to high RF and hes like well the machine says anything under 25 is good. I was like 16 is rather high compared to the other 3 that are under 7 lbs. He does the whole diagnostic again and shifts the tire. We find the RF goes down to 12 lbs. At this point when the wheel is spinning I noticed a little bit of a hop. I showed the mgr what I was talking about. He agrees there is a hop in the tire. The machine says the wheel tire combo balanced out and that the runout of the wheel and tire are under spec. But you can visibly see the tire is hopping.
So.... finally after talking to him "nicely" for about 30min he has now agreed to call Michelin and is going to see if they will replace the tire.
Driving back home, the front end felt so freaking awesome, I dont have words. With the new tie rods and cv axles I just put in last week and now a properly balanced set of tires the car drove well, except for the slight vibration I felt coming from the rear of the car due to that bad tire.
These are a set of Michelin MXV4's with about 10K on them. The tires are warrantied for 60K miles so I am hoping I get that new tire.
This finally closes this thread. I know I have had thoughts from the process of balancing and tires from day 1 but I actually suspected the car since I have 196K miles and thought it could be any worn out rubber part. I even mentioned this to the mgr and when we found out about that tire, we both had a good chat. He knew I was not BS'ing about everything I had done to the car and understood where I was coming from.
I have to say, I was impressed by his service! now only hoping Michelin does their part and my ride can be smooth again.
I'm so glad I have actually reached this point.
I finally took the car back to discount tire and spoke with the mgr. He actually wanted to speak with me coz i dinged his techs pretty bad in the last review since the car vibrated worse once i drove off from there.
So this time, the mgr himself takes the wheels off, balanced each wheel on the Hunter GSP 9700. Made notes all the time.
1. For the passenger rear the Road force was like 4lbs. Big smile on his face, hes like this cannot be coz of vibration. I'm like ok.... we got 3 to go.
2. Next he puts on the passenger front. Road force shows up as 16lbs. Hes not too happy, puts the machine in diagnostic mode and had another tech shift the tire on the rim. Measures again, down to 6lbs of RF.
3. Puts the drivers front wheel on the machine, road force shows up to be 7lbs. All this time, all I am doing is watching the wheels spin to see any sign of a bent rim. So far all is good.
4. He puts the drivers rear wheel on the machine. Road force shows up to be 16lbs. I mention a comment I had read here that the maxima was sensitive to high RF and hes like well the machine says anything under 25 is good. I was like 16 is rather high compared to the other 3 that are under 7 lbs. He does the whole diagnostic again and shifts the tire. We find the RF goes down to 12 lbs. At this point when the wheel is spinning I noticed a little bit of a hop. I showed the mgr what I was talking about. He agrees there is a hop in the tire. The machine says the wheel tire combo balanced out and that the runout of the wheel and tire are under spec. But you can visibly see the tire is hopping.
So.... finally after talking to him "nicely" for about 30min he has now agreed to call Michelin and is going to see if they will replace the tire.
Driving back home, the front end felt so freaking awesome, I dont have words. With the new tie rods and cv axles I just put in last week and now a properly balanced set of tires the car drove well, except for the slight vibration I felt coming from the rear of the car due to that bad tire.
These are a set of Michelin MXV4's with about 10K on them. The tires are warrantied for 60K miles so I am hoping I get that new tire.
This finally closes this thread. I know I have had thoughts from the process of balancing and tires from day 1 but I actually suspected the car since I have 196K miles and thought it could be any worn out rubber part. I even mentioned this to the mgr and when we found out about that tire, we both had a good chat. He knew I was not BS'ing about everything I had done to the car and understood where I was coming from.
I have to say, I was impressed by his service! now only hoping Michelin does their part and my ride can be smooth again.
11-13-2010, 08:26 AM
#27
I've been having this problem for so long i'll have a new front end after a while. i have the front wheel shake. took to midas to get my brakes done under warranty cuz the brake pedal travel was low as hell, and i heard rubbing. they showed me that the wheel was shaky up on the rack
and tried to get me to come out of $447 for everything. I told them hell no put it back together. I came home and just ordered a hub bearing off ebay for $40. i can go elsewhere to have it installed and problem solved. its kinda scary im gonna have to wait another week but oh well. got 2 jobs, gotta drive
and tried to get me to come out of $447 for everything. I told them hell no put it back together. I came home and just ordered a hub bearing off ebay for $40. i can go elsewhere to have it installed and problem solved. its kinda scary im gonna have to wait another week but oh well. got 2 jobs, gotta drive
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