jgilbs

Fixed my leaking oil pan and I found this:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Does this mean I spun a bearing? It's weird because the engine shows NO indication of damage. Sounds great at all RPMs, accelerates smooth, and no ticking. At idle, it IS a little rough, but I attributed that to me replacing the engine mounts and ditching the electric one on the front. It is likely the engine was run with low oil, as it had a serious leak, and last oil change, I ony ended up draining out about 2.5-3 qts

What are the consequences of me driving the car like this(if any)? How hard is it to replace bearings on our cars?

Unklejoe

iTrader: (6)

That's your micro-piston. It's used as a back up in case one of the 6 fail, so you can still drive home.

Sike.

I have no idea what that is, but I'd say, if the engine runs fine, keep driving it.


If it was a bearing, it's probably easier and cheaper to just replace the engine.

jgilbs

no serious replies makes me a sad panda

trooplewis

iTrader: (1)

Never seen anything like that before, you have a picture of it by itself?
Looks like someone opened up a canned ham and left eht seal in your crankcase.

maximase86

iTrader: (24)

That looks like bearing material to me...did you look at the connecting rods and crank for scoring or damage? The key here is you need to find where it came from. For a car that is running smooth for the most part, usually to be missing a connecting rod bearing or a main bearing will usually have some obvious symptoms to go with it (low oil pressure, rod knock, noisy top end because of low oil pressure or block passages from metal floating in the oil pan are examples).

S

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

looks like a chunk of bearing. can you get a picture of it not covered in oil?

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

If there is that much material gone, I would fathom one of two things: One, your are close to having a serious issue with your crank. If the crank gets scored, assuming it's not already given you report no anomalies with engine performance, then you will have to replace the crank (at minimal have it turned depending on extent of damage). It's already been mentioned it would probably be easier to just replace the engine (cost/labor wise). Unless you just enjoy pulling an engine and dissasembling the entire bottom end and timing...all that stuff.........? Not me.

Second, I wonder how possible it is that a previous owner did throw a bearing and had the bearings replaced but left old material in the oil pan?

Either way, you need to thoroughly inspect the bearings and find out where you stand!

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

It's gotta to be making some type of noise if that's a bearing....Pull some rod caps off and check the journals for galling, scores, or discoloration....Did you have any metal shavings in the oil pan?

jgilbs

I didnt see any other metal shavings in the pan. Either it was a clean sheer, or they got caught by the oil filter.

I did have a low oil light back in September(added 2 qts at that time), and when I changed oil in October it was 2 qts low, so there is possibility for bearing damage. I had a leak from the oil cooler, which is what initially caused the leak.

When it is VERY cold, there is some slight ticking, but nothing major...the lifter tick on my old Ford Explorer was MUCH more pronounced. There are no performance issues that I have noticed (mileage sucks, but that could be because of my tires, and the fact that it is winter)

I have heard(and am somewhat skeptical) that bearings can be replaced by pulling the upper oil pan, and keeping the engine in the car. Is this possible, or did I misread it? I really dont want to spend the $$ to put a new engine in this car, especially considering it seems to run fine at the moment.

spock

iTrader: (5)

Just drive it. If it starts making nasty noises, then decide to tear it down, replace the engine or replace the car.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Yes that's correct! The bearing can be changed in the car. Take a picture of that object by itself....If you were damaged the pan would be full of shavings....

jgilbs

What about the crankshaft? Can it be replaced with engine in the car? If not, what are the consequences of changing the bearing and not changing/turning the crank?

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

I believe Cmax is confirming you can change the bearings from underneath. I know of no reason you have to pull the engine. I've not done this type of work on a 5/5.5, but like other Maxima's, I'm certain you have to support the engine from up top and remove the crossmember to give you clearance to pull the pan off and access the crank.

You need to be careful about the crank. When a bearing is spun, it is always possible that any contact between the bare rod (without the bearing or peices of the bearing) can score and/or mishape the crank. I'd also say there is also the possibility of damage to the rod. Inspect both. If there is evidence of scoring/flattening/mishaping/whatever to the crank, then simply reinstalling bearings will only result in further damage and will prematurily wear the new bearings, resulting in being back where you are. Similar if there is damage to the rod and/or end cap and they are not replaced.

If the crank needs to be turned, you will have to pull the engine to remove it (well, you might be able to pull it from the bottom, but having the engine out makes it a lot easier, especially since you have to unbolt the transmission, flywheel/flexplate, and oil pump ).

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Any updates?

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

That's insane! Someone replacing a rod bearing is the only thing that makes any sense, assuming you're not partially deaf. I agree, check the rod caps for play, take them all apart & inspect if you have to.

3.5's have rod bolts not studs like the bulletproof 3.0's did, I'm pretty sure there TTY, actually I'm almost positive that they are.

You won't need to support the engine in order to take the upper pan off, only when the transmission is also out do you have to go that route. All in all shouldn't be to bad, just make sure to get new end pan seals (the 1/2 moon's) & oil pump pickup o-rings.

That's a bad idea, allthough that motor is probably hurting anyways, it sounds like right now the crank is still good but it won't be if he waits until he hears noises.

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

FWIW... I've spun a rod bearing(not a Maxima, though) without any discernible noises. I found small shavings in my oil pan during an oil change, dropped the pan, found something very similar to what you have there, and not a noise to be heard above the loud injectors and performance exhaust. I could only feel the odd vibration by placing my hand on the side of the block itself. Rotational mass is funny that way. I pulled the bolts on the connecting rods, found where the missing bearing came from, measured the mating clearance, got the part # for oversize bearings, and gave it all to the new owner for $600. If you're not mechanically inclined or know someone, I suggest selling it to someone with the means to fix it (with full disclosure of course) or buttoning the pan back up and driving until that engine seizes or throws a rod through the block (it will happen at the most inconvenient time an place - Murphy's Law). Personally, I would repair it.

jgilbs

I have no updates, as I haven't taken my pan off again.

I do plan on getting them repaired. Where can I get undersized bearings from? How precisely do I need to measure the crank? I have a digital caliper, would that be sufficient, or do I need a true micrometer?

Do I have to grind down the crank, or can I just measure and install new bearings? Anyone know the steps to get to the bearings, or have any pictures of what they look like in the engine? Can I reuse the bolts, or do I need to buy new bolts for the bearing?

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

There is clearly a problem here. Your further driving the car is ensuring that what ever damage has occured will worsen and subsequently significantly increase the intensity of repairs you have to do.

No one can really answer anymore of your questions about what it's going to take to fix your car when really you've not taken any incentive to take time necessary to either look yourself or take it to a shop who actually knows what they're looking at.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Get familiar with the fsm, that will answer your question on the bolts.

The crank can't be removed without removing the transmission/flywheel/timing cover & timing chain, a hell of a lot of work & you'd be better off doing a motor, unless money is tight & free time is not.

It's all going to come down to what that journal physically looks like, if it's galled up at all the new bearing won't last for more than a few hundred miles, but it might be perfect, only 1 way to find out..... Undersized bearings are only an option when getting the crank machined, if the crank is worn that much it will also be all galled up.

I had someone bring me an '02 celica gt for a brake job, I called them up & was like "wtf, you're car is knocking, it's down 4 qt's of oil (I think that's 90%!) and I added oil & it's still knocking" Long story short they had me replace the rod bearing even though I told them it was only going to last a few hundred miles, they kept the car & it only lasted a few hundred miles, then they traded it in with a motor knock & got nothing for it, some people lol.

jgilbs

What's up with the tone? Seriously man, I haven't updated this thread because I haven't had time to crack open my engine. I do have a job after all(and I need my car for said job). I was merely responding to someone asking for an update.

jgilbs

Also, I think the bearing may have spun back in August. I (very briefly) got a low oil light followed by an SES. It turned out to be due to low oil, so I added 2 qts at that time. Never had any weird sounds, or issues at startup. Only thing I have noticed is a slight ticking, which I've been told is due to the injectors.

At any rate, I plan on inspecting it and seeing how bad it is when I have a chance(I use my parents garage 30 miles away, and work needs to be done on the weekend as I have a job). This will probably happen in 2 weeks, and I will post an update with pics once I have more info. Anyone know if there are any special tools required? Do I really need to remove the crossmember to pull the upper pan?

And where can I buy new bearings? NAPA only has the whote kit with all new bearings and a new crank? Is this an item I need to get from the dealer?

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Dealer prices should be pretty competitive, for that celica I paid like $2 for one rod bearing overnighted. You will more than likely need to give nissan the part number, as you need to read the FSM & figure out which bearings your block has (a, b, c), I won't tell you where to look since you need to read the FSM anyways. Removing the crossmember is a must.

jgilbs

Removing the cross member is not hard - I will get to play with my new 18V 1/2" Cordless Impact, and the 12v Lion impact for the rest. Without the crossmember, will I have to support the engine from above? Do I need a hoist? Or can I just get one of those bars that goes across both fenders and supports the engine that way?

Something like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb...bar-96524.html

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

The 2 upper mounts will support it.

jgilbs

...except that I messed up the pass side mount when i changed them out. When I tightned it, the long bolt that goes down just started spinning, so I tried my best to weld it on, but didnt do a good job. So for day to day driving, I'm not too worried about it, but prob wouldnt be a great idea to rely on it to support my engine...

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

I think we all absolutely understand your need for transportation. Your delay is practically ensuring your loss of the car. I thought it was helpful to clarify the potential for mechanical engine failure, especially given what you describe as your circumstances.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

His car...his choice...who knows how long that piece has been there. He could have been driving it for quite some time in the current condition.

jgilbs

Update: So I pulled my lower pan again when I changed the oil. There were 2 tiny metal flakes in the pan, but nothing like there was last time. I looked, but it looks impossible to change out the bearings without pulling the engine. I could only see one rod bearing, and it was only the bottom, at that. The crank is still in the way to inspect the other side. If I need to pull the engine to replace the bearings, what are your thoughts on simply getting a crate motor (that has a warranty) and spending a few extra bucks on piece of mind...especially since this motor has 150k on it(body is in great shape, and tranny shows no sign of slowing down, so I think it would be a worthwhile investment, if I could accomplish it for around $2,000)

It's been about 5,000 miles since the "incident" where I got a low oil light and my engine threw a code. Currently(tap on wood), there is no noticeable knock coming from the engine, even if I listen to it with a screwdriver on the intake manifold.

It does seem to run a little rough, but that could be because of other issues(plugs, wires, etc that are of unknown vintage), or, more likely, my poly engine mounts (I really wish I would have never switched them)

If someone can confirm for a 100% fact that I can replace bearings(and crank if needed) without pulling the engine, I can accomplish that(new crank runs something like $300, bearings aren't too much more). If I need to pull the engine, I will need to take it to a pro, and at that point, I may as well just wait until I throw a rod, and put a new engine in there.

jgilbs

FYI - this is why you ALWAYS replace that oil filter o-ring at the first sign of leakage...it is what caused my low oil level in the first place, which in turn possibly damaged the bearings! A $1.50 part that can cause $3,000+ in damage!

Eirik

iTrader: (2)

I don't know why you keep calling the low oil pressure idiot lamp a "low oil light." There's a critical difference.

jgilbs

Sorry, I accidentally a word there. I meant "pressure", but it was caused by low oil level.

Another question, what is the wisdom in just replacing bearings/crank? Is there a possibility of metal flakes being elsewhere in the engine that might cause the engine to die anyway?

How do I check oil pressure? Can an OBD-II tool accomplish this?

jgilbs

Lastly, for those who think I am asking a million questions, but no plan to act, I have taken 3 days PTO March 4-7 to fix this (if practical, this gives me 5 full days if I need them)

FYI, The incident happened on 9/2, and it has been running fine since then, but I am worried that it is a ticking time bomb

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

I'm a little confused here. If you have the mechanical ability to replace a crankshaft why wouldn't you also be able to pull the engine? I'm not being sardonic when I ask that question. Of course, you have to keep track of all the items you disconnect/disassemble, but it shouldn't be that bad if you have a cherry picker and an engine stand. Might as well have it out and accessible. IMO, the amount of time you'll save yourself by working on the engine out of the vehicle instead of underneath the car will offset the extra time it takes to pull the engine. This will also allow you to clean it up well and perform other maintenance such as valve cover gaskets, seals, etc. The money you will save by doing it yourself will be more than enough to add all the necessary tools you'll need. It's your call, but I would pull the motor before I would consider swapping the crank on my back. No homo.

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

PTO? I'm assuming military then? Use the bays at the base, and you'll always find someone willing to help. Plus, air tools, lifts, and tons of tools. It's like $25/day right? Win.

jgilbs

PTO = Paid Time Off. No, I'm not military. I don't have a cherry picker, engine stand or expertise to pull the engine myself. I also have a 2-car garage(at my parents - I live in an apartment building in the city) that has somewhat limited space due to them storing all kinds of sundry items in there. I'm also afraid that if I pull it out, and can;t put it back in, I'm F-ed.

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

Gotcha. I wouldn't tackle the crank then even if you can remove it with the engine in. What part of the country are you in? You should try to find an org member local that can refer you to a good mechanic or maybe even do it themselves. GL!

jgilbs

I might have a buddy who can help with the swap. I found a stock motor with 60k in a junkyard near me. Do they generally pull the part for you? Anything I should look for before buying it?

jgilbs

FYI, here is a link to a video of my car at idle. This is what makes me question if I even spun a bearing:
http://www.youtube.com/v/7jCib1sEUyI?version=3

There is what sounds like a "slight" knock, but it is impossible to hear in person, even with a screwdriver on the block and against your ear

jgilbs

OK, resurrecting an old thread to give an update. So, 11 months and about 20,000 miles later, I think my engine is finally on its way out. On November 4th, immediately after starting my car I got VERY BAD rod knock(the entire car was shaking). Panicking, I IMMEDIATELY drove to a gas station (about 1 mile away) and checked the oil. It was about a quart low (I had added oil 1,500 miles ago), so I added a quart and started her back up. The knock was gone!

It is currently running a little rough, but that could be because my exhaust has a leak, and I need a new serpentine belt. I also need a new radiator(mine is spewing coolant all over the place, but slowly enough to still be able to drive it).

I guess my question is, is the engine toast? I plan on doing a full oil change next weekend, and at that time I will check the pan for metal flakes from the bearings to confirm my initial diagnosis. If (since it is still running) it is possible my car didn't suffer any major damage, then I will fix the exhaust, belt and radiator.

But, is it worth it to perform "minor" repairs at this point? I checked the price of crate motors and used they run $750-$1000. If my engine blows I'm looking at around $2,000-$2,500 to swap it out. What are your guys' thoughts? I do need a daily driver, and if this isn't worth it, I am strongly considering purchasing a cheap corolla or something to get me around. I would say that I could sell this while it still runs(or trade it in to be more ethical), but I did take a small loan on this car, so I don't have the title to sell it outright.

Thoughts?

T_Behr904

Since you borrowed money on your car, and you can't sell it, it would probably be best to replace the engine. Or you can keep driving it until it blows up, and then call whoever currently holds the title to your car for that loan and tell them to come and get it. Read the fine print of your loan agreement to see if you would still have to pay your loan back if you did that, and if it would affect your credit score.