Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Another ranking thread, this time for suspension parts on the 5th Gen that aren't so much "bars" per se, but bushings. You know, rubber and polyurethane inserts.

To get the ball rolling, I'm proposing the following sequence, with a 20:1 scale.Personally, I've never replaced the RCA bushing, the Pass/Tran mount inserts, nor the Steering Column bushings. But everything else... yup.

Feel free to rearrange, re-rank, or add on-topic parts to your own list. And they're just opinions, so keep it civil, please.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

Rochester what have you done?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Bought it new in Fall 2002. Modded it slowly over the years according to a fluid plans and a pretty strict budget. Then sold it to merovi in February of 2012. There were enough mods spaced out over time to give me a reasonable voice for opinion, but in the end I'm just a daily driver with a hobby and a trusted mechanic.

Now get out from behind that couch and contribute something on-topic.

As you can tell from my ranking, solid poly bushings (Energy Suspension) in the engine torque mounts is top mod. Hands down, the top mod. However, the inexpensive mods should get some praise, too, for their ridiculously high ROI. I'm thinking FSB bushings and the like.

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

20 - Engine Torque Mount Bushings
Severe reduction in drivetrain movement one of my first and best noticed mods
12 - Engine Pass/Tran Mount Bushings
Severe improvement in stability eliminates many noise issues
08 - FSB Bushings
Changed just because i was there did not notice an improvment in handling from this
03 - Subframe Bushings
Changed with motormounts. bushings may of had an effect but would have to remove them to find out
02 - LCA Bushings
Large improvement in handling i felt a noticable decrease in front end slop.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Then you'd rank the FSB bushings really low, I'm guessing.

For myself, after replacing the 8 year old, OEM front-sway bar bushings with new ones from Energy Suspension, my steering felt super crisp and tight. I was very happy with the results. A little surprised, too.

I guess it all depends on how worn the originals are... which goes for anything and everything, really.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

That's not what I meant... I meant it as in "what have you unleashed by creating another rankings thread" debate...that fstb thread is interesting enough, y'know

And I'm not much for on-topic since I've got a basically stock 4th gen.

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

well at the time i also did endlinks which were bad so i had alot of play so i could not judge the improvement on a singular basis just for the FSB replacement due to the current condition of the related parts.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Oops. uppet: Consider myself slapped.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

I replaced the FSB bushings with ES busings. At the same time, I installed Moog endlinks. Just to be accurate, I'll mention that I also installed my BC coilovers at the same time. I immediately noticed how much tighter my steering was. It's sensitivity to steering wheel movement is now almost surgical-grade sensitive - and my stocks weren't in bad shape at all.

As to the ranking, I'll reserve for now and edit my post within a week or so, in which time I will be installing my ES torque mount and subframe collar bushings.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

How exactly are you doing that with an Automatic Transmission? You're going to need MT mounts, or a customized collar inside the mount to take up the diameter slack.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

I picked up a set of MT mounts at the boneyard. It's a shame the rubber is in great shape but I already have my ES bushings waiting. BTW, my understanding is that the ES busings will fit in the A/T mounts as well, except you lose the electronic funtion (a plus in anyone's book). If you look at ES's online catalog, it even states so.

I picked up the M/T mounts just because I found them, and don't want the electric appendages anyway.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

The cylinders have a different diameter. AT mounts are larger. So unless ES started making bushings for the AT... that's news to me. Either way, you've got the right mounts from the junkyard, which is the smart way to go.

Your Max is going to feel very, very responsive with this mod. You're also going to get lots of NVH, but that's the trade-off. And if you like that sort of thing, it's a win-win.

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

^ You are correct, sir. After reading a few threads, the ES inserts WILL NOT FIT the A/T electronic mount housings. Glad I bought the M/T ones when I found them.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Don't forget the upper engine/tranny mounts from Knight_YYZ.
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...-protoype.html

EuroDriver

iTrader: (21)

That will probably be next - I just have to recover a bit from the enormous investment I have been making in the car. As a result, I have not kept up with his thread as to where the latest revision to his inserts are going along.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Driver side re-design is done, model sent to molder. My order's in, trying them w/electric mounts.

TSelanne

iTrader: (2)

Thx for the thread, great info. I was talking to a guy who's worked as a mechanic before.... I don't know him well so I can't speak on his experience level, but he mentioned he's put urethane bushings on other cars and over time they start to squeak. Have any of you guys had this experience? Or any other negatives associated w these types of upgrades?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

I haven't noticed it. I've read where the red bushings squeak more readily than the black; something about black having graphite in it. Right or wrong, I only bought solid poly bushings in black, in case there was more truth than urban myth to that idea.

nishfish871

iTrader: (5)

I can contest to saying my ES LCA bushing are squeaking, only noticeable sometimes.

Prophecy99

iTrader: (1)

yeah i have also heard the urethane ES bushings are commonly noisy

Luigi Martini

Believe it or not I was looking for something like this. Hopefully everyone is in agreement, or at least close to it. With all the different bushings that can be upgraded its nice to know where to start considering they will all need to be replaced eventually. The car is ten years old and I'm sure its time.

Does the Engine Torque Mount Bushings and Engine Pass/Trans Mount Bushings get rid of the excessive slop between load and unload especially with the trans? Or to put it differently, when you are on the gas or off the gas. My girlfriend is really tired of me jerking her head around.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

MaximusTi

iTrader: (1)

Since I can't be bothered too learn Rochester's ratio system I'll just throw my 2 pennies in on the shifter assembly bushings,

All the other ES suspension bushing parts I replaced had a slight increase in handling responsiveness and feel (Except my RCA bushings which I felt nothing from)

But the ES Shifter assembly bushings were one of the best mods I ever did on my car. Uber cheap, and constant gratification every time I shifted.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

That's a great point. I totally forgot about the ES banjo bushings on each end of the shifter cable, and the solid poly bushings underneath the shifter assembly.

Considering how inexpensive they are, and the 100% DIY nature of the installation, the shifter bushings rate really, really high.

How high? I don't know, I can't figure out my rating system either.

Luigi Martini

Jeez how did I know this would be taken the wrong way. I regretted it as soon as I hit reply.

Any clarification/answer to the question?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

I'm no engineer, but here's my understanding... right or wrong.

When the engine is comes under load, (which is typically at idle when you apply the accelerator hard), the resulting torque lifts the engine. There's a significant amount of energy applied to lifting a very heavy weight. And it does this because it can, what with the engine mounts giving it the play to do so. This is by design, to smooth out the NVH between the engine and the chassis. However, when the engine mount bushings get old and sloppy, there's more lift, more wasted energy, and your GF's head gets knocked around like a soccer ball in a laundry bag. (Nice image)

When you put stiff bushings in the engine mounts (like solid poly), you reduce the amount of lift in the engine. Energy is more readily transferred from the engine, through the transmission and to the drive wheel(s). You get a lot more NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness), but you also get a much quicker response from the throttle.

This is why NWP Engineering calls their engine brace a "Torque Link".

So, to sum up:

1. Sloppy bushings - GF's head gets knocked about
2. OEM bushings - GF falls asleep in your boring sedan
3. POLY bushings - GF's seat vibrates

My guess is she might like #3, but I don't know. The god's honest truth is that most people don't care for the NVH that comes with these mods.

Luigi Martini

Thank you very much for the info. I assumed this was the issue as I have seen it mentioned before but I wanted some clarification. They are definitely old and sloppy, and whether they are replaced with OEM or ES it will be a huge improvement. More than likely ES because they won't need replacing after that.

I could care less about NVH, mainly because my outer tie rod ends and sway bar end links were just replaced (with MOOG of course) and I'm a happy camper every time I drive the car. Good God nothing could be more noisy than that crap.

I shall ask her about #3. With the addition of vibration she may be interested.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

guys have any opinions on this?

http://www.nwpengineering.com/Phenol...tml#TorqueLink

Not really a collar or bushing, but....

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Love it. I had mine powdercoated, and matched with SS retainer nuts and titanium bolts.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

really? What does it actually do in terms of daily driving?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Like the solid poly torque mount bushings... a much more responsive throttle off the line, less (to none) lift on the engine, yadah yadah yadah.

It's all good. Plus, it's adjustable, and very easy to remove/re-install.

But if you think the NVH is harsh with poly torque mounts, this thing is brutal for some people. Personally, I liked it, and so does merovi. He keeps it on for daily driving just like I used to.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

NVH?

oh nevermind. duh.

I prefer to think of it as "feedback".