How bad is a cracked intake manifold collector?
How bad is a cracked intake manifold collector?
Question: Will this crack get larger or anything? Since it doesn't seem to have cracked all the way to the actual intake bits and is only on the supporting structure, can I just smear JB Weld on it and call it a day? Or are the forces involved great enough to demand replacing the entire UIM?
Long part:
Yeah... Pretty embarrassing. I installed my NWP Economy Phenolic spacers yesterday. With my brother helping me out halfway through, it was still a solid 9 (!) hour project to do all five spacers and change the spark plugs and PCV valve. Yeah.
I was somewhat lacking in sleep, was dehydrated, running low on calories, and quite sick of standing in the 90* sun. So 8 hours in, when I'm taking the (properly torqued) EGR nuts off the LIM's studs to put the correct nut+washer combo on there, I crack the manifold right at one of those studs because my fatigued brain thinks I'm turning the ratchet to the left, but, surprise!, I wasn't.
So, um, a new collector is only $145 from Courtesy, which is surprising to me, because I assumed it would have been more like $400, being cast aluminum and whatnot. But I'd really, really, REALLY prefer to never take the UIM off again. Ever. Whatever material the economy spacers are made out of, it appears to be harder than aluminum. I can't feel any break in its external structure.
The crack appears to be more-or-less hairline. I've poked it and nothing will chip off. I'm hoping that, since I was using a normal nut and no washers, the damage was mitigated?
Front view
Front view, no flash
Engine bay, you can see the EGR tube on the right of the UIM, beneath the EVAP stuff. Those nuts are the ones I used to remove and reinstall the LIM's studs and then foolishly installed them on those studs. The crack is visible at the far left, too.
From above
From above, showing extent of crack on rear of UIM. I'm proud of this shot, it took four or five attempts to get the camera to focus back there. Don't freak out about the RTV. I put a paper-thin layer on the gaskets around the intake ports, but didn't bother keeping the outside edge clean. When I cleaned the inside of the gaskets after applying RTV, most of it ended up on the outside edges.
Not that big a crack, maybe?
SIDE NOTE:
As for the haters who are going to say things like, "d00, if it takes you that long to do the spacers, you probably shouldn't have done them yourself, yo" I'll say three words: REAR EGR BRACKET. You don't have one. You can't imagine the pain and torture involved in reaching that lone UPSIDE DOWN bolt behind the UIM. We tried for ~30 minutes or so to get the bolt back on and gave up. I think I'm just going to zip-tie it.
Satan's bracket.
I'm now off to reset all the air volume things, listen for leaks, and keep an eye out for engine oddities. I never turned it on after finishing at 10 PM last night.
EDIT:
Patched with JB Weld. See below, post #7.
Long part:
Yeah... Pretty embarrassing. I installed my NWP Economy Phenolic spacers yesterday. With my brother helping me out halfway through, it was still a solid 9 (!) hour project to do all five spacers and change the spark plugs and PCV valve. Yeah.
I was somewhat lacking in sleep, was dehydrated, running low on calories, and quite sick of standing in the 90* sun. So 8 hours in, when I'm taking the (properly torqued) EGR nuts off the LIM's studs to put the correct nut+washer combo on there, I crack the manifold right at one of those studs because my fatigued brain thinks I'm turning the ratchet to the left, but, surprise!, I wasn't.
So, um, a new collector is only $145 from Courtesy, which is surprising to me, because I assumed it would have been more like $400, being cast aluminum and whatnot. But I'd really, really, REALLY prefer to never take the UIM off again. Ever. Whatever material the economy spacers are made out of, it appears to be harder than aluminum. I can't feel any break in its external structure.
The crack appears to be more-or-less hairline. I've poked it and nothing will chip off. I'm hoping that, since I was using a normal nut and no washers, the damage was mitigated?
Front view
Front view, no flash
Engine bay, you can see the EGR tube on the right of the UIM, beneath the EVAP stuff. Those nuts are the ones I used to remove and reinstall the LIM's studs and then foolishly installed them on those studs. The crack is visible at the far left, too.
From above
From above, showing extent of crack on rear of UIM. I'm proud of this shot, it took four or five attempts to get the camera to focus back there. Don't freak out about the RTV. I put a paper-thin layer on the gaskets around the intake ports, but didn't bother keeping the outside edge clean. When I cleaned the inside of the gaskets after applying RTV, most of it ended up on the outside edges.
Not that big a crack, maybe?
SIDE NOTE:
As for the haters who are going to say things like, "d00, if it takes you that long to do the spacers, you probably shouldn't have done them yourself, yo" I'll say three words: REAR EGR BRACKET. You don't have one. You can't imagine the pain and torture involved in reaching that lone UPSIDE DOWN bolt behind the UIM. We tried for ~30 minutes or so to get the bolt back on and gave up. I think I'm just going to zip-tie it.
Satan's bracket.
I'm now off to reset all the air volume things, listen for leaks, and keep an eye out for engine oddities. I never turned it on after finishing at 10 PM last night.
EDIT:
Patched with JB Weld. See below, post #7.
Last edited by Eirik; Jun 25, 2012 at 09:29 AM.
Question: Will this crack get larger or anything? Since it doesn't seem to have cracked all the way to the actual intake bits and is only on the supporting structure, can I just smear JB Weld on it and call it a day? Or are the forces involved great enough to demand replacing the entire UIM?
Long part:
Yeah... Pretty embarrassing. I installed my NWP Economy Phenolic spacers yesterday. With my brother helping me out halfway through, it was still a solid 9 (!) hour project to do all five spacers and change the spark plugs and PCV valve. Yeah.
I was somewhat lacking in sleep, was dehydrated, running low on calories, and quite sick of standing in the 90* sun. So 8 hours in, when I'm taking the (properly torqued) EGR nuts off the LIM's studs to put the correct nut+washer combo on there, I crack the manifold right at one of those studs because my fatigued brain thinks I'm turning the ratchet to the left, but, surprise!, I wasn't.
So, um, a new collector is only $145 from Courtesy, which is surprising to me, because I assumed it would have been more like $400, being cast aluminum and whatnot. But I'd really, really, REALLY prefer to never take the UIM off again. Ever. Whatever material the economy spacers are made out of, it appears to be harder than aluminum. I can't feel any break in its external structure.
The crack appears to be more-or-less hairline. I've poked it and nothing will chip off. I'm hoping that, since I was using a normal nut and no washers, the damage was mitigated?
Front view
Front view, no flash
Engine bay, you can see the EGR tube on the right of the UIM, beneath the EVAP stuff. Those nuts are the ones I used to remove and reinstall the LIM's studs and then foolishly installed them on those studs. The crack is visible at the far left, too.
From above
From above, showing extent of crack on rear of UIM. I'm proud of this shot, it took four or five attempts to get the camera to focus back there. Don't freak out about the RTV. I put a paper-thin layer on the gaskets around the intake ports, but didn't bother keeping the outside edge clean. When I cleaned the inside of the gaskets after applying RTV, most of it ended up on the outside edges.
Not that big a crack, maybe?
SIDE NOTE:
As for the haters who are going to say things like, "d00, if it takes you that long to do the spacers, you probably shouldn't have done them yourself, yo" I'll say three words: REAR EGR BRACKET. You don't have one. You can't imagine the pain and torture involved in reaching that lone UPSIDE DOWN bolt behind the UIM. We tried for ~30 minutes or so to get the bolt back on and gave up. I think I'm just going to zip-tie it.
Satan's bracket.
I'm now off to reset all the air volume things, listen for leaks, and keep an eye out for engine oddities. I never turned it on after finishing at 10 PM last night.
Long part:
Yeah... Pretty embarrassing. I installed my NWP Economy Phenolic spacers yesterday. With my brother helping me out halfway through, it was still a solid 9 (!) hour project to do all five spacers and change the spark plugs and PCV valve. Yeah.
I was somewhat lacking in sleep, was dehydrated, running low on calories, and quite sick of standing in the 90* sun. So 8 hours in, when I'm taking the (properly torqued) EGR nuts off the LIM's studs to put the correct nut+washer combo on there, I crack the manifold right at one of those studs because my fatigued brain thinks I'm turning the ratchet to the left, but, surprise!, I wasn't.
So, um, a new collector is only $145 from Courtesy, which is surprising to me, because I assumed it would have been more like $400, being cast aluminum and whatnot. But I'd really, really, REALLY prefer to never take the UIM off again. Ever. Whatever material the economy spacers are made out of, it appears to be harder than aluminum. I can't feel any break in its external structure.
The crack appears to be more-or-less hairline. I've poked it and nothing will chip off. I'm hoping that, since I was using a normal nut and no washers, the damage was mitigated?
Front view
Front view, no flash
Engine bay, you can see the EGR tube on the right of the UIM, beneath the EVAP stuff. Those nuts are the ones I used to remove and reinstall the LIM's studs and then foolishly installed them on those studs. The crack is visible at the far left, too.
From above
From above, showing extent of crack on rear of UIM. I'm proud of this shot, it took four or five attempts to get the camera to focus back there. Don't freak out about the RTV. I put a paper-thin layer on the gaskets around the intake ports, but didn't bother keeping the outside edge clean. When I cleaned the inside of the gaskets after applying RTV, most of it ended up on the outside edges.
Not that big a crack, maybe?
SIDE NOTE:
As for the haters who are going to say things like, "d00, if it takes you that long to do the spacers, you probably shouldn't have done them yourself, yo" I'll say three words: REAR EGR BRACKET. You don't have one. You can't imagine the pain and torture involved in reaching that lone UPSIDE DOWN bolt behind the UIM. We tried for ~30 minutes or so to get the bolt back on and gave up. I think I'm just going to zip-tie it.
Satan's bracket.
I'm now off to reset all the air volume things, listen for leaks, and keep an eye out for engine oddities. I never turned it on after finishing at 10 PM last night.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/14013m-...957_1958_1969&
Mine cracked in the same spot. 150 later and a trip to the junk yard I was back up and running. Trust me when I tell you-'IT WILL LEAK".
GL
X
BTW thsi cat is selling a manifold.
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...dom-parts.html
GL
X
BTW thsi cat is selling a manifold.
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...dom-parts.html
Last edited by Xpcgamer; Jun 24, 2012 at 10:14 AM.
XPC: Did you try running with the cracked manifold at all, or just immediately replace it? Google seems to suggest that JB Weld is fine for repairing cracked aluminum manifolds. Apparently Ford has a penchant for making UIMs that crack, so there are loads of threads about fixing cracked Mustang and F150 V8s.
So you guys are thinking the crack will continue to spread deeper into the manifold, eventually resulting in a leak? JB Weld is pretty tough stuff, I've used it on some body repairs and it's basically good as new. I went ahead and smeared it into the crack and plan on letting it set for ~8 hours before firing up the engine to make sure everything's groovy.
PS: Thanks for the link to NismoAce's thread. He's made some very worthwhile contributions to the forum, so I'm more than happy to trade cash for parts he doesn't need.
So you guys are thinking the crack will continue to spread deeper into the manifold, eventually resulting in a leak? JB Weld is pretty tough stuff, I've used it on some body repairs and it's basically good as new. I went ahead and smeared it into the crack and plan on letting it set for ~8 hours before firing up the engine to make sure everything's groovy.
PS: Thanks for the link to NismoAce's thread. He's made some very worthwhile contributions to the forum, so I'm more than happy to trade cash for parts he doesn't need.
Last edited by Eirik; Jun 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM.
My crack was way worse. Put it this way. After 500 miles you will have to re torque the manifold bolts The economy spacers tend to get "squished". When you go to torque them that JB weld is not going to hold. You will end up with a leak that will cause intermittent low idle. I just re torqued my Economy spacers this morning. Its been 500 mile since I had to remove my lower intake manifold. The Upper Intake Manifold bolts needed to be re torqued as they where loose. I will recheck in another 500 miles to see if they are loose. If they are I will call Aaron. I hope the economy spacers don't keep flattening out and bulging.
Yeah, I'd already read about how the economy spacers tend to warp and flex a little during shipping, but Aaron was confident that adequately torqued bolts will hold them absolutely flush.
Of the three economy pieces, the throttle body and elbow spacers were as flat as the two phenolic LIM spacers. When I laid the UIM spacer on top of the LIM, you could tell that it was bulging in the middle a little. I'm not concerned.
I started it up and let it run for a minute or two, trying my best to hear intake leaks. No codes, so I'm relieved that the spark plug and PCV valve installs went fine.
Unfortunately, I do hear a slight hissing noise when I put my head near the cracked manifold, but I have no idea if I'm hearing an air leak, or if it's noise from the timing chain, or the valves, or any of the other noisy parts in the immediate area. Pressing my ear against the UIM proved useless--the valves drown out any other noises that might be present.
The idle is a little high and it would drop every ten seconds or so before coming back up. Naturally, I need to do the pedal dance before making the determination that an air leak could be the culprit.
I'll give it a few more hours of curing before spraying the crack with something to see if it changes the idle.
Update a few hours later:
Did the pedal dance, reset went fine. Idles at 650 and dips to just beneath 500 every 15 seconds or so. When it's idling that low, the engine vibrates the cabin for 5 seconds before pulling the idle back up to 650. I'm fairly sure it did that before the install.
Drove it a mile and it didn't act up at any stop signs. Filled it up and it didn't do anything funny on a warm start... So it looks like the JB Weld is working perfectly.
My only question goes back to longevity: Does anyone have experience using JB Weld to fix an intake component? If so, how long did you rock out the epoxy before it failed or you replaced the part in question? Shouldn't the forces applied to the upper intake manifold be light, so there shouldn't be a danger of the crack worsening, right?
Of the three economy pieces, the throttle body and elbow spacers were as flat as the two phenolic LIM spacers. When I laid the UIM spacer on top of the LIM, you could tell that it was bulging in the middle a little. I'm not concerned.
I started it up and let it run for a minute or two, trying my best to hear intake leaks. No codes, so I'm relieved that the spark plug and PCV valve installs went fine.
Unfortunately, I do hear a slight hissing noise when I put my head near the cracked manifold, but I have no idea if I'm hearing an air leak, or if it's noise from the timing chain, or the valves, or any of the other noisy parts in the immediate area. Pressing my ear against the UIM proved useless--the valves drown out any other noises that might be present.
The idle is a little high and it would drop every ten seconds or so before coming back up. Naturally, I need to do the pedal dance before making the determination that an air leak could be the culprit.
I'll give it a few more hours of curing before spraying the crack with something to see if it changes the idle.
Update a few hours later:
Did the pedal dance, reset went fine. Idles at 650 and dips to just beneath 500 every 15 seconds or so. When it's idling that low, the engine vibrates the cabin for 5 seconds before pulling the idle back up to 650. I'm fairly sure it did that before the install.
Drove it a mile and it didn't act up at any stop signs. Filled it up and it didn't do anything funny on a warm start... So it looks like the JB Weld is working perfectly.
My only question goes back to longevity: Does anyone have experience using JB Weld to fix an intake component? If so, how long did you rock out the epoxy before it failed or you replaced the part in question? Shouldn't the forces applied to the upper intake manifold be light, so there shouldn't be a danger of the crack worsening, right?
Last edited by Eirik; Jun 24, 2012 at 07:11 PM.
Check back with us when you go to re torgue in 500 miles. With the spacer flattens after a while you will have to tighten again. When yopu tighten it it will crack again in the same spot. That member wants 80 bucks for the UIM. I'd say pick that up and use the JB weld to hold you over till the other UIM comes in.
I did the same thing man, cracked it over-torquing it after doing the spacers. it was causing a P0300 misfire from being to lean and everything. I just smeared RTV all over the crack and surrounding areas and its been fine for about a year now. Good Luck
Yea, it was on the far left bolt and ran a couple inches up the runner, i never took it off to see how bad it was, just coated the whole area in RTV black, not the prettiest, but it instantly started running right.
I have an 03 max too, not sure if the 05 IM is different... or if that even matters
I have an 03 max too, not sure if the 05 IM is different... or if that even matters
Last edited by TheIntrepidMontti; Jun 25, 2012 at 10:11 AM.
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