Questions about Cattman Y-Pipe
12-30-2012, 10:23 AM
#1
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Questions about Cattman Y-Pipe
OK so my attempt at replacing my front pre-cat is not going well, probably should have bought OEM, but I didn't realize the aftermarkets were so shoddy. This now leaves me looking at buying the OEM @ $700 which considering I have already spent $250 on the aftermarket and I am out of the return period, will bring this job to over a $1000 (with all gaskets and shipping and all).
I have heard people suggest that a Y-pipe is a better solution because it eliminates both pre-cats, and also because looking at Cattman's page, it only costs half of what I would pay for the OEM pre-cat.
So I wanted to ask some questions to see what I would be getting into here.
1. Is the Cattman one the best option for a Y-pipe?
2. With the elimination of the pre-cats, what happens to the O2 sensors that go inside them? (I know I've heard mention of O2 sims, but have no idea what those are or what it entails)
3. Is it going to hurt my fuel economy?
4. Any other thoughts or comments you might have?
Mainly my concerns are, that my economy not be hurt, and that I'm not going to constantly have a check engine light because of the O2 sensors. I'm in Franklin County, Virginia so no emissions inspection, so that is not a concern as to whether or not I would pass one.
I have heard people suggest that a Y-pipe is a better solution because it eliminates both pre-cats, and also because looking at Cattman's page, it only costs half of what I would pay for the OEM pre-cat.
So I wanted to ask some questions to see what I would be getting into here.
1. Is the Cattman one the best option for a Y-pipe?
2. With the elimination of the pre-cats, what happens to the O2 sensors that go inside them? (I know I've heard mention of O2 sims, but have no idea what those are or what it entails)
3. Is it going to hurt my fuel economy?
4. Any other thoughts or comments you might have?
Mainly my concerns are, that my economy not be hurt, and that I'm not going to constantly have a check engine light because of the O2 sensors. I'm in Franklin County, Virginia so no emissions inspection, so that is not a concern as to whether or not I would pass one.
Last edited by ffcbairn; 12-30-2012 at 10:25 AM.
12-30-2012, 10:34 AM
#2
1) Yes unless you make a custom Y
2) o2 sims are just what they say. o2 simulators that trick the ECU into thinking you have o2 sensors and thus keeping a check engine light from coming on. I was not aware 5th gen pre-cats had o2 sensors though....
3) Likely because you will drive it with a heavier foot but a lot of power mods can increase MPG but these cars are not great on mileage anyways
4) There are about a million threads on this. Research and find a veteran member who has a 5th gen who can guide you
Other thoughts are do not start modding if a CEL bothers you. I have to do emissions where I live and I still mod but I can reset my ECU right before the test. CEL's are part of modding so get used to it
2) o2 sims are just what they say. o2 simulators that trick the ECU into thinking you have o2 sensors and thus keeping a check engine light from coming on. I was not aware 5th gen pre-cats had o2 sensors though....
3) Likely because you will drive it with a heavier foot but a lot of power mods can increase MPG but these cars are not great on mileage anyways
4) There are about a million threads on this. Research and find a veteran member who has a 5th gen who can guide you
Other thoughts are do not start modding if a CEL bothers you. I have to do emissions where I live and I still mod but I can reset my ECU right before the test. CEL's are part of modding so get used to it
12-30-2012, 11:04 AM
#3
It won't help you.
You clearly have a "cali-spec" car. This means that replacing the Y pipe will only delete the REAR catalytic converter, NOT the front one.
So doing a y pipe to eliminate your current problem would be useless.
What about just punching out the old OEM Pre-Cat and reinstalling it? Is that an option?
You clearly have a "cali-spec" car. This means that replacing the Y pipe will only delete the REAR catalytic converter, NOT the front one.
So doing a y pipe to eliminate your current problem would be useless.
What about just punching out the old OEM Pre-Cat and reinstalling it? Is that an option?
12-30-2012, 11:11 AM
#4
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Argh this is killing me. I am now looking at it, and apparently I have a Cali spec (4 O2 sensors) whereas before I thought I had federal (car was bought in Nevada and originated in Arizona). This is now making me question whether I bought the right pre-cat; however, from what I have read in the Fed spec, the O2 that is eliminated is the one that goes into the precat I am changing so then if the new precat has the O2 sensor hole then perhaps it is Cali.
Besides that point, the CEL thing. If O2 sims will turn off the CEL relating to O2s, should I be expecting other CEL codes to start popping up as a result of a y-pipe.
Edit: haha apparently you beat me to the realization of my Cali-specness by a matter of minutes while I was writing this reply
That was going to be my next question was how does it eliminate the front precat when looking at Cattman's picture it shows a three hole connector, but it should be 5 holes. I was mainly going off what it says on the Cattman page, "1995-2001 Y-pipes eliminate factory-installed “pre-cats” and are not intended for use on public roads or highways." It uses pre-cats in the plural so I assumed both would go away.
As far as punching out the old pre-cat, I'm not sure what this would accomplish? Will that get rid of the CEL or would I still have to deal with it?
Besides that point, the CEL thing. If O2 sims will turn off the CEL relating to O2s, should I be expecting other CEL codes to start popping up as a result of a y-pipe.
Edit: haha apparently you beat me to the realization of my Cali-specness by a matter of minutes while I was writing this reply
That was going to be my next question was how does it eliminate the front precat when looking at Cattman's picture it shows a three hole connector, but it should be 5 holes. I was mainly going off what it says on the Cattman page, "1995-2001 Y-pipes eliminate factory-installed “pre-cats” and are not intended for use on public roads or highways." It uses pre-cats in the plural so I assumed both would go away.
As far as punching out the old pre-cat, I'm not sure what this would accomplish? Will that get rid of the CEL or would I still have to deal with it?
Last edited by ffcbairn; 12-30-2012 at 11:15 AM.
12-30-2012, 11:47 AM
#7
Why did you replace the old one in the first place?
Punching out the old one will give you a way to reassemble the car. But you will need to do some messing around to keep cels off if you do it. We can help you with that if you choose that route
Punching out the old one will give you a way to reassemble the car. But you will need to do some messing around to keep cels off if you do it. We can help you with that if you choose that route
12-30-2012, 11:59 AM
#9
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This is all to fix code P0430.
Are you sure the fed spec 2000 front isn't separate? This is what I bought, and it says 49 state, but is not part of the y-pipe. The confusing thing to me is that it is the same shape, and has the O2 port, so I don't see in what way it is different from a Cali spec.
Regarding headers, not sure where that would get me, I would still have the code I am trying to eliminate.
Edit: Apparently the fed spec only had a built on precat up to June of 2000 at which point it went to a separate front precat in the same manner as the Cali spec. As my car has a DOM of 03/00 I can be certain it is Cali spec. This still leaves the question of whether the pre-cat I have will work as it seems like it should bolt up excluding the problem with the flange.
On the few parts sites I've checked they all list the same part number for the separate pre-cat for Cali spec 4/99-6/01 and Fed 06/00-06/01
Are you sure the fed spec 2000 front isn't separate? This is what I bought, and it says 49 state, but is not part of the y-pipe. The confusing thing to me is that it is the same shape, and has the O2 port, so I don't see in what way it is different from a Cali spec.
Regarding headers, not sure where that would get me, I would still have the code I am trying to eliminate.
Edit: Apparently the fed spec only had a built on precat up to June of 2000 at which point it went to a separate front precat in the same manner as the Cali spec. As my car has a DOM of 03/00 I can be certain it is Cali spec. This still leaves the question of whether the pre-cat I have will work as it seems like it should bolt up excluding the problem with the flange.
On the few parts sites I've checked they all list the same part number for the separate pre-cat for Cali spec 4/99-6/01 and Fed 06/00-06/01
Last edited by ffcbairn; 12-30-2012 at 12:16 PM.
12-30-2012, 05:10 PM
#11
This is all to fix code P0430.
Are you sure the fed spec 2000 front isn't separate? This is what I bought, and it says 49 state, but is not part of the y-pipe. The confusing thing to me is that it is the same shape, and has the O2 port, so I don't see in what way it is different from a Cali spec.
Regarding headers, not sure where that would get me, I would still have the code I am trying to eliminate.
Edit: Apparently the fed spec only had a built on precat up to June of 2000 at which point it went to a separate front precat in the same manner as the Cali spec. As my car has a DOM of 03/00 I can be certain it is Cali spec. This still leaves the question of whether the pre-cat I have will work as it seems like it should bolt up excluding the problem with the flange.
On the few parts sites I've checked they all list the same part number for the separate pre-cat for Cali spec 4/99-6/01 and Fed 06/00-06/01
Are you sure the fed spec 2000 front isn't separate? This is what I bought, and it says 49 state, but is not part of the y-pipe. The confusing thing to me is that it is the same shape, and has the O2 port, so I don't see in what way it is different from a Cali spec.
Regarding headers, not sure where that would get me, I would still have the code I am trying to eliminate.
Edit: Apparently the fed spec only had a built on precat up to June of 2000 at which point it went to a separate front precat in the same manner as the Cali spec. As my car has a DOM of 03/00 I can be certain it is Cali spec. This still leaves the question of whether the pre-cat I have will work as it seems like it should bolt up excluding the problem with the flange.
On the few parts sites I've checked they all list the same part number for the separate pre-cat for Cali spec 4/99-6/01 and Fed 06/00-06/01
1. 49 state just means that the cat you purchased is EMISSIONS LEGAL IN 49 STATES. Everyone except California.
It has nothing to do with the car itself being Fed or Cali spec.
2. If your car has a separate front Precat, it's Cali Spec. That's it, period, end of discussion.
3. I'll post a picture of the FED spec Y pipe, the Cali Spec Y pipe, and the 2002/2003 Y pipe a bit later in the night when I get a shot to put pictures to the words for you.
12-30-2012, 05:14 PM
#12
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...00-2003-a.html
^^ I don't think that ever got added to stickies, but I put it together a while ago. Should help you out if you haven't read it. Pretty much all your questions are answered in the OP regarding the differences.
^^ I don't think that ever got added to stickies, but I put it together a while ago. Should help you out if you haven't read it. Pretty much all your questions are answered in the OP regarding the differences.
01-03-2013, 11:10 AM
#13
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49 state just means that the cat you purchased is EMISSIONS LEGAL IN 49 STATES. Everyone except California.
It has nothing to do with the car itself being Fed or Cali spec.
It has nothing to do with the car itself being Fed or Cali spec.
Appreciate the thread on the y-pipe/headers. That at least clarified for me as to why CMax suggested I get headers and how that would skate me around the issue here.
I am getting a grinder today so I can reduce the flange on the stock y-pipe and hopefully finish putting in the new pre-cat, assuming it is what I need. Otherwise I am left with putting the old one back in for now and rolling with that because school starts back up on Monday, so I need to have it wrapped up one way or another by then.
01-03-2013, 12:02 PM
#15
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Same thing as what is keeping me from putting the old one back in. The flange on the stock y-pipe. Essentially I managed to wiggle the old one out, but the way it catches there is no way to put the new or old one back in, hence the grinder to take it down enough to hopefully do so.
It went like this.
1. I got the old one out
2. I tried to put new one back in, but caught it on flange
3. I decided there might be issues with the fitment of the new one anyway, due to some slight differences/low quality manufacturing issues
4. I was under the impression the y-pipe eliminated both precats so I inquired about that in an attempt to circumvent the whole issue.
5. I am now back to step two as I now know that 4 is not true.
Part 3 is shown in pictures
Old one on left, new one on right. The gasket holder sits on top of the old one so they pair up quite nicely. The new one did not come with any sort of gasket, so essentially I have to reuse the old gasket holder which would sit in that rim around the inside of the new one. The rim itself is too narrow in parts to hold the gasket holder in flush. That's not the bigger of the two issues, I can pry that rim a little bit to allow it to fit.
This is the big problem. New one on left, old on right. As you can see, on the old one the flange simply slides inside of the pre-cat. One the new one, this does not appear to be the case, again there is a little rim like design which theoretically couples with the flange. The problem is that if I try to pair up the flange/y-pipe with the new pre-cat it won't go in all the way. Again the rim appears to be too tight in places, and also you can see a little in the pic, the soldering is impeding it doing so.
As my options seem to be to drop the entire y-pipe to get the pre-cat to fit past the flange, or to grind the flange itself, and because it seems like to fit the new one I am going to have to grind the flange anyway, I have chosen to go that route.
It went like this.
1. I got the old one out
2. I tried to put new one back in, but caught it on flange
3. I decided there might be issues with the fitment of the new one anyway, due to some slight differences/low quality manufacturing issues
4. I was under the impression the y-pipe eliminated both precats so I inquired about that in an attempt to circumvent the whole issue.
5. I am now back to step two as I now know that 4 is not true.
Part 3 is shown in pictures
Old one on left, new one on right. The gasket holder sits on top of the old one so they pair up quite nicely. The new one did not come with any sort of gasket, so essentially I have to reuse the old gasket holder which would sit in that rim around the inside of the new one. The rim itself is too narrow in parts to hold the gasket holder in flush. That's not the bigger of the two issues, I can pry that rim a little bit to allow it to fit.
This is the big problem. New one on left, old on right. As you can see, on the old one the flange simply slides inside of the pre-cat. One the new one, this does not appear to be the case, again there is a little rim like design which theoretically couples with the flange. The problem is that if I try to pair up the flange/y-pipe with the new pre-cat it won't go in all the way. Again the rim appears to be too tight in places, and also you can see a little in the pic, the soldering is impeding it doing so.
As my options seem to be to drop the entire y-pipe to get the pre-cat to fit past the flange, or to grind the flange itself, and because it seems like to fit the new one I am going to have to grind the flange anyway, I have chosen to go that route.
01-04-2013, 01:31 PM
#16
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Last question Tuner, I am now certain I am not gonna be able to use that new one. At this point I just want to get the old one back in. As I cannot clear the flange, my plan is to drop the y-pipe, at least partially, to give myself a little play to do so. The problem is I can't get to the third bolt on the rear pre-cat due to its location near the crossmember. I have looked at a couple y-pipe install writeups, but they are all for 2002-3 so I'm not sure if it's the same. Am I supposed to remove the crossmember to get at that third bolt or am I missing something here?
01-04-2013, 01:34 PM
#17
Sorta off topic question...but which SPECIFIC Y pipe did you get from Cattman? YG-4?
And what are you planning on doing with the Cattman Y pipe, since it's Fed spec and you're cali spec (and that Y is not interchangable)?
And what are you planning on doing with the Cattman Y pipe, since it's Fed spec and you're cali spec (and that Y is not interchangable)?
01-04-2013, 02:17 PM
#18
sorry dude been busy and forgot this thread!
Bolded should be all you need to do to get the aftermarket one in and get back to it. No need to overcomplicate the whole thing. You just need to get the y pipe loose enough to wiggle the front cat in, that's it.
I can't help with the logistics of access to the rear mount, but I'm sure some universal socket joints and long extensions are in order for those. And a lot of penetrating fluid.
Last question Tuner, I am now certain I am not gonna be able to use that new one. At this point I just want to get the old one back in. As I cannot clear the flange,
my plan is to drop the y-pipe, at least partially, to give myself a little play to do so.
The problem is I can't get to the third bolt on the rear pre-cat due to its location near the crossmember. I have looked at a couple y-pipe install writeups, but they are all for 2002-3 so I'm not sure if it's the same. Am I supposed to remove the crossmember to get at that third bolt or am I missing something here?
my plan is to drop the y-pipe, at least partially, to give myself a little play to do so.
The problem is I can't get to the third bolt on the rear pre-cat due to its location near the crossmember. I have looked at a couple y-pipe install writeups, but they are all for 2002-3 so I'm not sure if it's the same. Am I supposed to remove the crossmember to get at that third bolt or am I missing something here?
Bolded should be all you need to do to get the aftermarket one in and get back to it. No need to overcomplicate the whole thing. You just need to get the y pipe loose enough to wiggle the front cat in, that's it.
I can't help with the logistics of access to the rear mount, but I'm sure some universal socket joints and long extensions are in order for those. And a lot of penetrating fluid.
Last edited by TunerMaxima3000; 01-04-2013 at 02:23 PM.
01-04-2013, 05:32 PM
#22
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I have not bought a Y-pipe at all. I was inquiring about it because I was under the false impression that it would allow me to eliminate the front precat, which I now know to be wrong.
I'm gonna get into it tomorrow to see if I can loosen up the rear mount. No matter what though, I am gonna end up putting the old one back in. There is no way the flange will fit inside the bottom of the aftermarket one.
I think I do plan on getting a y-pipe now, along with headers and O2 sims; however, until I have all that gathered up I am just gonna have to deal with the bad precat, and hopefully sell the aftermarket one to recoup some of the money on it.
As the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20
I'm gonna get into it tomorrow to see if I can loosen up the rear mount. No matter what though, I am gonna end up putting the old one back in. There is no way the flange will fit inside the bottom of the aftermarket one.
I think I do plan on getting a y-pipe now, along with headers and O2 sims; however, until I have all that gathered up I am just gonna have to deal with the bad precat, and hopefully sell the aftermarket one to recoup some of the money on it.
As the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20
01-04-2013, 07:12 PM
#23
Fed/Canadian
Cali spec
01-05-2013, 07:28 PM
#29
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The gasket is not the problem. It's the existing flange on the OEM y-pipe. See the picture below. The circled flange does not fit inside the bottom of the aftermarket precat as it does on the OEM one.
01-05-2013, 09:03 PM
#30
Interesting.
Ok. You have 2 options then:
1. Grind that lip on the Y pipe off with an Angle grinder until it fits
2. Gut the old precat and reinstall it with a new gasket. Then get the same AWG (Gauge) Wire that the O2 sensors use and extend the Secondary Sensor behind the rear Precat (In the Y pipe).
THAT or just buy the 'O2 Extenders' that are Plug and play.
Both will require drilling into the Y pipe and welding a "bung" in there for the O2 to go in.
This will make the computer read the POST-CAT exhaust readings that the rear Precat is putting out, and you will have no codes.
This WILL NOT work if your rear cat is removed or missing.
Ok. You have 2 options then:
1. Grind that lip on the Y pipe off with an Angle grinder until it fits
2. Gut the old precat and reinstall it with a new gasket. Then get the same AWG (Gauge) Wire that the O2 sensors use and extend the Secondary Sensor behind the rear Precat (In the Y pipe).
THAT or just buy the 'O2 Extenders' that are Plug and play.
Both will require drilling into the Y pipe and welding a "bung" in there for the O2 to go in.
This will make the computer read the POST-CAT exhaust readings that the rear Precat is putting out, and you will have no codes.
This WILL NOT work if your rear cat is removed or missing.
01-07-2013, 03:39 PM
#32
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Tuner just want to say thanks for all your advice and help on this. I did get a grinder to try and take that flange down. Unfortunately even with it ground to where I stopped at I still at a 1/4 in or so gap, I think to get it to fit I would have had to grind it all the way down to the crush gasket, or pretty close to it anyway. I was not comfortable grinding it that far down. The good part is I was able to get the OEM y-pipe loosened enough to where they could mate up, just prevented from doing so by the stupid design of the replacement. In the end I just put the old one back on for the time being.
My plan of attack from here out is as follows:
1. Order O2 sims for both precat sensors.
2. Install those.
3. Once those are installed, punch out front precat
That should accomplish clearing my SES and prepare me for the next step which due to cost, and availability will take me some time.
4. Order and install headers and y-pipe.
I am helped by having gone through that whole mess, at least I know what is involved in removing and installing the precat, I am sure I can do it pretty quickly the second time around
Once again thanks for all your help, sorry I couldn't report back with some greater success than the status quo, but at least now I have a solid plan for addressing it, and also the knowledge required to do so.
My plan of attack from here out is as follows:
1. Order O2 sims for both precat sensors.
2. Install those.
3. Once those are installed, punch out front precat
That should accomplish clearing my SES and prepare me for the next step which due to cost, and availability will take me some time.
4. Order and install headers and y-pipe.
I am helped by having gone through that whole mess, at least I know what is involved in removing and installing the precat, I am sure I can do it pretty quickly the second time around
Once again thanks for all your help, sorry I couldn't report back with some greater success than the status quo, but at least now I have a solid plan for addressing it, and also the knowledge required to do so.
01-07-2013, 04:40 PM
#33
Hope you punched it before installing, but probably didnt as you need to get it running.
Non-foulers work really good if you get good ones, that'd be the route I'd try first. Im' running them and I haven't had a single issue what-so-ever, granted, that is on the G35, not the maxima. Principle is the same either way though.
Sims have a fairly bad reputation from everything I've researched, especially for the cost. Just something to think about! Glad I and everyone else could help, shytty that you couldn't get the aftermarket one on there without effing around much more
Non-foulers work really good if you get good ones, that'd be the route I'd try first. Im' running them and I haven't had a single issue what-so-ever, granted, that is on the G35, not the maxima. Principle is the same either way though.
Sims have a fairly bad reputation from everything I've researched, especially for the cost. Just something to think about! Glad I and everyone else could help, shytty that you couldn't get the aftermarket one on there without effing around much more
01-07-2013, 06:31 PM
#34
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Hope you punched it before installing, but probably didnt as you need to get it running.
Non-foulers work really good if you get good ones, that'd be the route I'd try first. Im' running them and I haven't had a single issue what-so-ever, granted, that is on the G35, not the maxima. Principle is the same either way though.
Sims have a fairly bad reputation from everything I've researched, especially for the cost. Just something to think about! Glad I and everyone else could help, shytty that you couldn't get the aftermarket one on there without effing around much more
Non-foulers work really good if you get good ones, that'd be the route I'd try first. Im' running them and I haven't had a single issue what-so-ever, granted, that is on the G35, not the maxima. Principle is the same either way though.
Sims have a fairly bad reputation from everything I've researched, especially for the cost. Just something to think about! Glad I and everyone else could help, shytty that you couldn't get the aftermarket one on there without effing around much more
I like the idea of the non-foulers, it wins on price and ease of doing that is for sure. Only problem I have with it is that it requires the O2 to stay in place, which becomes unworkable if I do get the y-pipe, and then I have to do the sim anyway.
01-13-2013, 08:23 AM
#35
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Well took it all apart again yesterday, punched out the cat, reinstalled, and installed non-foulers. So much easier taking it all apart the second time around 
Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advice, it is greatly appreciated.
Seeing as how I have done the front one, I am now considering doing the rear one just to make things even. If I were to do so, is getting a y-pipe after that still worthwhile?
Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advice, it is greatly appreciated.Seeing as how I have done the front one, I am now considering doing the rear one just to make things even. If I were to do so, is getting a y-pipe after that still worthwhile?
01-13-2013, 04:19 PM
#38
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Only issue now is that when I went to get my SES reset, it also pulled a P0158. I am speculating that this is because I drove it for the week with the old crush gasket, it wasn't sealed and therefore set the O2 sensor off because I was losing exhaust out of the thing. I didn't want to use the new one when I was just gonna have to take it off again this weekend, but it is on there now.
If it's not that then I would guess I damaged the sensor during the removal, reinstallation, reremoval, and rereinstallation. Will just see how it goes with that and hope I don't have to replace it.
If not either of the two then perhaps I did something wrong with the non-foulers, but it seems like they should be pretty hard to screw up.
If it's not that then I would guess I damaged the sensor during the removal, reinstallation, reremoval, and rereinstallation. Will just see how it goes with that and hope I don't have to replace it.
If not either of the two then perhaps I did something wrong with the non-foulers, but it seems like they should be pretty hard to screw up.
01-13-2013, 07:36 PM
#39
Please list what a "p0158" is.
A pet peeve on here is when people list a code and expect US to go looking up what the code means, we won't. Not an attack at you personally of course, just a pet peeve, that's all. The normal "p0420" and the like that are so brutally common everyone knows them are fine, but anything other than that or the P0505 should be listed with a description when posting, my personal opinion.
A pet peeve on here is when people list a code and expect US to go looking up what the code means, we won't. Not an attack at you personally of course, just a pet peeve, that's all. The normal "p0420" and the like that are so brutally common everyone knows them are fine, but anything other than that or the P0505 should be listed with a description when posting, my personal opinion.