DjHackStyle

Yesterday my battery died in the mall parking lot i left the lights and radio on for about 1 hour while i was cleaning the interior. So I tried to roll through the parking lot and I got a lil speed and I had the ignition to the On position and I popped the clutch in 1st gear and it didn't start. I had to get a boost.

Anyways I've searched and everybody talks about a push button start for our cars.

But I want to know if a 5.5 Gen manual can be push started? I've tried several times in 1st 2nd and 3rd gears and it just won't start. My old Jetta used to start immediately in 1St gear. I don't get it maybe it's the electronic throttle body?

tosheto

iTrader: (5)

You should start it on 2nd gear always. Unless you push it down a hill and gain speed. Then you can start it on 3rd.

rullywowr

More often than not, if your battery is completely dead you won't be able to push start it as the car needs juice to run the ECU engine management and subsequently open the injectors...if the battery was charged but your starter was boned you could pop start it.

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

I have not had any luck with this. I have a few times tried it on a hill, shut down going 60 and then just turn key on and let clutch out in 6th. Any time I have tried this the engine will obvious spin up since it has to, but I get no throttle and end up having to clutch and start the engine by key. Not sure if this is a problem everyone has, if its an anti-theft feature, or if its just my car

DjHackStyle

So u guys have successfully push started a 5.5 gen maxima? I need a confirmation this has been done.

I did try it with a charged battery still wouldn't start in 2nd gear I kept trying just to test it out.

DjHackStyle

If u tried this on the highway and it didn't start then that might mean a 5.5 Gen cannot be push started for some reason

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

yes, this was on the highway. There is no question that there was plenty of opportunity for the engine to start, I just dont know if this is representative for all 5.5 gens or not, this car has not been close to stock for a long while

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Looks like drive-by-wire kills the roll start for manual tranny cars. Bummer

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

need more than one account to be sure.

i doubt its drive by wire that kills it. IF that is something on 5.5 gens, im sure its the ECU doing it as part of an anti-theft function and all the anti-theft features that I know of cause a no spark condition, which would have the same result whether DBW or cable throttle

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Started many of a maximas w/ the push start method in 1st gear, DBW or not, 3.0L, 3.5L....

Only works if the ECU is powered though.... If your battery is completely dead the push start method will NOT work.

BTW, why is DBW even mentioned in this thread? Seriously guys?

This is how A LOT of misinformation starts on the org, but just muttering a few words that make sense to anyone who doesn't know what they're talking about and then boom, like wildfire misinformation spreads...

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, you right. My bad

Although I did say LOOKS LIKE, though. Not" IT IS DEFINITIVE FACTO MUNDO" by the way

See? My last post is un-edited by me.

DjHackStyle

Drive by wire is mentioned because the battery needs to provide the power to operate it so if ur battery is dead then it would make sense that you cannot push start the car it would sputter and never start cause the throttle is not opening up

But on cars without the electronic operated throttle body it would operate just fine cause its on a steel cable so it would start.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Yeah! What Hackstyle said!!

On a more philosophical level, this shows that as cars get more and more electronic, the more likely a dead battery means dead everything, and nothing will save you until you charge.

So say these modern cars still had manual trannies. 1st the fan became electric, now the throttle body, electric power steering is coming along, I'm sure air conditioning will be next. With all those devices being driven electrically the battery state becomes more and more critical. Of course many of these devices, like steering and ac, won't be running in a push start scenario, but still.

This is all moot because the manual tranny seems to be well on its way to becoming a dinosaur, if it hasn't already. Wasn't the last manual tranny maxima available in like 2005? Even BMW with their killer M5 stopped offering a straight manual. Sheesh.

So now we live in a world with a gazillion types of automatic trannies, CVT, DSG, paddle shifting etc. All of them trying to act like a manual. Yes, they all outperform manual trannies now, but they will never, ever, be as much fun.

I don't know. Maybe I should have played more video games when I was younger

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Guys.... I put it in bold and red so you can understand easier...

If the car sputters then dies you have other problems.... see continued response below...

Bro, that was a long cool post but only one thing matters, it has mattered since oh about the 80s?

(completely) Dead battery = Dead ECU, so you're not going to be push starting anything that requires an ECU and the ECU isn't getting enough juice to run. Simple as that.

No need for the epic monologues chap. It's a relatively simple matter

DjHackStyle

I've push started many other cars why not a maxima?

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

This is probably the cause.

Also a V6 with decent compression is going to take a lot more 'gusto' to get going than a little 4 banger will. Expect 2nd or 3rd gear and more speed if you want to get it cranked over.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

OK I was long winded but I was kind of agreeing with you. What I was trying to come across with is that the more electronic a car becomes the more dependant on the battery's condition it is when it's off.

I honestly don't think an ECU needs alot of juice. Everything the ECU controls, however, like injectors, fuel pump etc, may hold back the starting of the car. Perhaps also the direct ignition system heighten's the battery low level threshold. The electronic throttle body may have been a tipping point, the straw that broke the camel's back.

You know what I just thought maybe it's the failsafe. The switch that refuses to start the car unless the clutch is pressed down. I think its normally supposed to kill the starter only but perhaps in the newer cars the Nissan engineers went further, like do not run fuel pump or fire off injectors sort of thing. Who knows

FYI this is supposition, suggestion, thinking out loud etc. Not a statement of fact.......just to be clear

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Maximas pop start EASY. If you can't do it with juice in the battery (only way...), then you're doing something wrong. I can have someone push me 20 ft and start it every time.
I did this for a long time before the starter solenoid completely failed and I was forced to replace it lol. Roll starting on the road is a no brainer. It works every single time just like the sun comes up haha.
3rd gear is your friend for push starts.

Obviously, a dead battery means you're hoofing it home.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

iirc any voltage under 11v is not enough to run the engine (ECU). It can only correct down to 8 volts or somewhere there abouts but i think it will cut out if it sees 11v or less for any amount of time. unsure about the specifics of voltages it needs, etc.

it's not a matter of 'juice', or 'amperage' it only has to do with voltage. the ECM can only correctly monitor sensors and compensate injectors duty cycle, and sensor imputs across a certain range of voltages. Past those voltages it cannot safely operate the injectors, etc.

Injector Duty Cycle is the 'ON time' of each injector firing. There's a 'Trim/Latency' for each injector. that's the 'delay' from the time the ECU sends the signal to the time where the injector actually fires. In a properly working fuel system with stock injectors, this is effected mostly by voltage.
different voltages change the 'latency', and there's a safe operating range for latency.

mist max2000

iTrader: (16)

Didn't rear the rest of this post but I have pop started mine (02 6spd) once. It was with decent speed with 2 ppl pushing behind the car maybe over 20 yards of pushing. When it was piped the gas was feathered and then the clutch was immediately pushed back in after it turned over.

TL;DR: it works
Source: me

DjHackStyle

What gear were u using?

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Did the speedo light up correctly and bright when you turned it into the on position?

If the warning lights all looked extremely dim, chances are you do not have enough power to get it going.

@DWp

No, not at all.... Everything you're talking about comes on after the engine is running.... And most of that stuff you mentioned aren't in Manual cars

The only cars that I really worry about being push started is any vehicle with nissans 3.7L motor in it, or any type of continuously VVEL system that relies heavily on valve lift to keep idle, specifically the 370z/G37 which uses two kinds of ecu's, one to run the motor and one to run the VVEL system and of course the VVEL solenoids which are responsible for keeping idle... Maybe that car will sputter and die on push starts?

^BUT THAT LAST PARAGRAPH IS ALLLLLLLL PURE SPECULATION, THUS WHY ITS ITALICIZED. If you read in your manual, Nissan recommends to never push start any timing chain driven vehicle, yet i've done it for years successfully with no ill effects of the pushstart.... I just realized I posted more than one sentence in a push start thread ugh maxima.org....

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

huh, wonder why it never worked on my car going 60

DjHackStyle

i tried it with a charged battery just for arguments sake. still didnt work. im thinking about putting a small battery mounted next to my car battery in the engine compartment just for this case.

maxwannabenow

iTrader: (3)

Tried it today on my 03.. didnt start.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Hold key on start, pop clutch, immediately push in clutch when engine fires.

pimpin02max

iTrader: (6)

I've pop started mine a few times with no problems...

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Oh you have to turn the key

TravisCadello

Wow a litter of these guys don't have a clue WTF they are talking about wow. Anyways it's easiest to push start 1st gear no other gear should be used. I have push started a car with no battery in it. As u realease clutch engine spins n alternator provides everything with power n will fire right up as long as you got a good alternator. The only reason push start won't work is if u got bad alternator or weak.

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

have to hold key to start WTF? I dont doubt youre right but that doesnt make any sense, turned to on works for every other vehicle ive seen

DjHackStyle

the ignition switch has to be open thats all. no holding nothing. just turn the ignition on and leave it alone. no cranking, like if u were driving.

tcb_02_max

iTrader: (5)

Yes, but that is a little bit of a misnomer, as the Altima took over the volume midsize vehicle category for Nissan and still offers a manual in the coupe (in the sedan through 2008).
Not true. A 6 speed manual is a $0 option for the American market. Added because enthusiasts demanded it.
Not all try to act like a traditional manual, and not even half of them outperform their three-pedal counterparts. As an example, a Nissan Versa Hatchback comes to mind.

But, yes, for most of us, rowing our own gears will always be more fun

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I know the Altima coupe. That's the G37 coupe's ugly cousin lol. The Altima SER is night and day way better looking than that thing.

OK so BMW tried to kill that manual. Ironic, seeing as BMW markets its products as the ultimate driving machine.

Yup.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

What happens if you don't push the clutch in as the engine fires?

And someone mentioned how it's bad to jump start a timing chained motor, so perhaps Nissan engineers may have been doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen.

Why would it be bad anyhow? Maybe dangerous but damaging to the motor?

tcb_02_max

iTrader: (5)

I believe push starting has the greatest potential to damage the catalytic converter due to non-"lambda = 1" conditions (i.e. extremely rich or lean). I unfortunately could not find a source.

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

Oh boy this thread got stupid for no reason

1 hold clutch in
2 put car in 1st gear
3 push car
4 turn key to start while releasing clutch
5 push clutch down and put in neutral when starts
6 vroom vroom happens
Does not damage engine!

Brought to you by the kind people of the Ghustle Crew

Sent from T_Bittys Melon Farm

L_U_D_I_AMaxima

iTrader: (3)

my point exactly... those are people who buy a manual just to brag about and "look cool" to their friends... but in reality those do not understand anything about manual transmissions or how it operates...

"I popped the clutch in 1st gear and it didn't start"

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I know how to roll start a car...done it many times. My point is that on older cars step 5 is not necessary. Once the car comes to life you can just go. You dont have to push the clutch in and shift to neutral.

So why do you have to do step 5 on a 5.5 gen Maxima?

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

You don't have to. Most people stop the car after its running for a bunch of reasons. To pick up the people that were pushing, to thank them, to turn around or go to a shop, to switch from 2nd gear if applicable, to run the car at higher rpm which puts more current out from the alternator, and so on. All reasons why you would push the clutch in after the car starts.

If the alternator isn't working or the battery is really bad the car will not pop start.