Really bad pull and torque steer
04-22-2019, 10:57 AM
#1
Really bad pull and torque steer
Hi, So I've been having problems with my car pulling to one side or the other for quite a while now. Last summer I had some pretty bad Michelin tires that were scalloped and causing a hard pull to the left. So I got 2 new Yokohama YK 740's for the front and it helped a lot, but didn't get rid of the pull completely. This past winter I got 4 Bridgestone Blizzak's and my car drove nice and straight. Anyways a few months into winter I hit a rock with my front right tire about the size of my head while driving through a canyon. It sliced the sidewall and started pulling more and more to the right as air leaked out completely within 1 mile. I got a new replacement and it still pulls to the right. I inspected the suspension for anything out of the ordinary and didn't find any bends or cracked seals. I went to get an alignment done, they showed me on paper that it really wasn't much out of spec and they adjusted a little better than it was. Drove away and it still continued to pull to the right. Drove 6 weeks like this and got 2 more Yokohama YK 740's to complete a new set of 4. Now the car pulls to the LEFT... wtf?? Oh and when I hit the gas it pulls even harder. Alignment is good and with no visible suspension problems. I don't get how it pulls to the right with one set of tires and then pulls to the left with the other set. It's gotta be something is the suspension right? Axle, tie rod, ball joint.. Any suggestions would be great. This is making my driving experience horrid.
04-22-2019, 11:26 AM
#2
If you hit something really hard, then it's time to replace the control arm and tie rods.
Tq steer is normal with open diff and of course will be made worse by an alignment problem. If there's any slop, then it's going to compress when moving and alignment won't fix that.
Bushings are shot unless you've already replaced the arms before, anyway. I would replace them with inner/outer tie rods.
The pulling behavior does sound odd, though.
Tq steer is normal with open diff and of course will be made worse by an alignment problem. If there's any slop, then it's going to compress when moving and alignment won't fix that.
Bushings are shot unless you've already replaced the arms before, anyway. I would replace them with inner/outer tie rods.
The pulling behavior does sound odd, though.
Last edited by Child_uv_KoRn; 04-22-2019 at 11:31 AM.
04-22-2019, 11:46 AM
#3
Update: I just got all tires re-balanced and rotated and the problem is much more controlled now, but now it pulls to the right under acceleration, where it before the balance and rotate it pulled to the left.. It's so weird.
Anyways, I replaced the LCA's about 5 years ago. Moog parts. The bushings are in great shape still, but who knows, maybe hitting that big rock caused some kind of bend? Would you start with the control arms or tie rods first? I guess I could just do both. Looks like I'll need another alignment after these replacements. It's a good thing I have unlimited alignments at Firestone.
Anyways, I replaced the LCA's about 5 years ago. Moog parts. The bushings are in great shape still, but who knows, maybe hitting that big rock caused some kind of bend? Would you start with the control arms or tie rods first? I guess I could just do both. Looks like I'll need another alignment after these replacements. It's a good thing I have unlimited alignments at Firestone.
Last edited by MaxinO2; 04-22-2019 at 02:16 PM.
04-22-2019, 04:36 PM
#4
Update: I just got all tires re-balanced and rotated and the problem is much more controlled now, but now it pulls to the right under acceleration, where it before the balance and rotate it pulled to the left.. It's so weird.
Anyways, I replaced the LCA's about 5 years ago. Moog parts. The bushings are in great shape still, but who knows, maybe hitting that big rock caused some kind of bend? Would you start with the control arms or tie rods first? I guess I could just do both. Looks like I'll need another alignment after these replacements. It's a good thing I have unlimited alignments at Firestone.
Anyways, I replaced the LCA's about 5 years ago. Moog parts. The bushings are in great shape still, but who knows, maybe hitting that big rock caused some kind of bend? Would you start with the control arms or tie rods first? I guess I could just do both. Looks like I'll need another alignment after these replacements. It's a good thing I have unlimited alignments at Firestone.
CA can bend, but I'm curious what the other measurements besides toe were. If caster/camber is the same as other side, then I guess it wasn't bent. It's just very odd that you've done everything right and it's still ****y.
Last edited by Child_uv_KoRn; 04-22-2019 at 04:43 PM.
07-03-2019, 11:18 PM
#5
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
Pulling to one side or the other depending on traction is normal. Right side was the most common when I had an open diff and sticky tires. Do you mean it pulls even when cruising on a flat road?
CA can bend, but I'm curious what the other measurements besides toe were. If caster/camber is the same as other side, then I guess it wasn't bent. It's just very odd that you've done everything right and it's still ****y.
CA can bend, but I'm curious what the other measurements besides toe were. If caster/camber is the same as other side, then I guess it wasn't bent. It's just very odd that you've done everything right and it's still ****y.
But I to have this issue (right pull, sometimes at normal acceleration, always during hard acceleration) but after reading through these replies I come to the conclusion that it is got to be mostly road traction and I say that from reading your replies and my experience of new roads that were just done in my city some where more even than others and I noticed my pull when accelerating is always on the uneven streets, and on the more level Streets the car doesn't pull as hard and I consider it to be torque steer at that point.
But still is there a way to combat the pull. I have an alignment scheduled for friday 6/5/19 and hope it is solved then.
*I am looking into new tires as i got esr rims now with Yokohama 740's too stretched to fit, i swapped them from my stock tires. Not the comfy ride i was use to lol
07-04-2019, 01:19 PM
#6
If the lca rear bushing is rotting out, you will have torque steer. It is rather common for the power steering hose to leak and drip on the passenger lca and rots the bushing. Tell the alignment people to check the bushing very closely.
07-04-2019, 02:43 PM
#7
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
I have new lca's from recent recall less than 3 months old. And new inner and outer tie rods and truhart coils. Wheel alignment and meaty tires.
10-08-2019, 07:31 PM
#10
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 116
Lower control ball joint is easier to detect when bad, you just need to jack car up so wheel is not touching the ground and grab the wheel at 12 and 6 oclock and shake and look for play. If your bushing is just starting to go bad on the LEFT side lower control arm you will really need to shake the wheel left to right and if they are just starting to break apart, it is not easy to detect with shaking the wheel because it will take alot to make the control arm shift a couple of degrees. The easiest way to detect a bad lower control arm bushing is during a road test. You will feel the most torque steer when going around a right bend on the parkway and flooring the accelerator pedal. With all the weight on the left side of the car while driving around a right bend at 50-60mph, the worn/torn/dry rotted bushing will give. The feeling will almost be like someone jerked the steering wheel on you so be prepare to react and correct so you don't end up crashing or changing lane into another car.
10-09-2019, 04:52 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: maryland
Posts: 732
Lower control ball joint is easier to detect when bad, you just need to jack car up so wheel is not touching the ground and grab the wheel at 12 and 6 oclock and shake and look for play. If your bushing is just starting to go bad on the LEFT side lower control arm you will really need to shake the wheel left to right and if they are just starting to break apart, it is not easy to detect with shaking the wheel because it will take alot to make the control arm shift a couple of degrees. The easiest way to detect a bad lower control arm bushing is during a road test. You will feel the most torque steer when going around a right bend on the parkway and flooring the accelerator pedal. With all the weight on the left side of the car while driving around a right bend at 50-60mph, the worn/torn/dry rotted bushing will give. The feeling will almost be like someone jerked the steering wheel on you so be prepare to react and correct so you don't end up crashing or changing lane into another car.
10-09-2019, 05:55 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,215
my car would pull to the right for like a year couldn't figure it out so it came time to re-grease the sway bar links, control arms, tie rods.
BOOM it went away and steered straight again. After getting aligned everything was good. still pulled to the right.
for me it turned out i needed to put in some grease in those moog re-greasable things.
The ball joints just spin on a plastic cup so you probably most likely fked up one of the joints when u get the rock.
also it would get better after rotating front tires because i believe after unloading the suspension would sorta reset the position of something and
go back to how it was after a while.
maybe just disconnect the sway bar at the control arms see if that's not your problem first.
maybe it binds to one side idk just throwing stuff out there.
BOOM it went away and steered straight again. After getting aligned everything was good. still pulled to the right.
for me it turned out i needed to put in some grease in those moog re-greasable things.
The ball joints just spin on a plastic cup so you probably most likely fked up one of the joints when u get the rock.
also it would get better after rotating front tires because i believe after unloading the suspension would sorta reset the position of something and
go back to how it was after a while.
maybe just disconnect the sway bar at the control arms see if that's not your problem first.
maybe it binds to one side idk just throwing stuff out there.
10-12-2019, 09:16 AM
#15
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 116
Since it's a DIY........just make sure you've tighten down all the front and rear control arm bushings with the control arm fully loaded. What I mean by fully loaded is that all the weight of the car need to be on the front wheels or the ball joint end of the control arm. You don't want to tighten down the rubber bushing ends of the control arm while the car is jacked up and wheels are hanging down, that is not the natural position of the car when the car is on the ground. If you tighten everything down with the wheels hanging down there will be tremendous amount of twist on those rubber bushings when the car is back down on the ground. That will throw off your alignment a bit and those bushings will tear again in a few months.
10-12-2019, 10:44 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,449
Since it's a DIY........just make sure you've tighten down all the front and rear control arm bushings with the control arm fully loaded. What I mean by fully loaded is that all the weight of the car need to be on the front wheels or the ball joint end of the control arm. You don't want to tighten down the rubber bushing ends of the control arm while the car is jacked up and wheels are hanging down, that is not the natural position of the car when the car is on the ground. If you tighten everything down with the wheels hanging down there will be tremendous amount of twist on those rubber bushings when the car is back down on the ground. That will throw off your alignment a bit and those bushings will tear again in a few months.
10-13-2019, 04:48 PM
#17
hint: it doesn't matter. The position of the rear bushing does not change whether it's hanging or compressed, b/c it's pressed into the arm AND DOES NOT SWIVEL (aka fixed position) like a regular CA (like on RWD nissans or most other cars).
Good luck fully tightening the front one with any weight on it, b/c you're not going to get a big wrench under the car (without ramps which are useless due to failure). Obviously, I just crank em as is in the air and have replaced CAs multiple times. Surprise, they didn't wear out.
I also grease up the front pin and bushing sides. I can't explicitly remember, but I'm pretty sure it just rotates under the weight of the car when lowering.
Good luck fully tightening the front one with any weight on it, b/c you're not going to get a big wrench under the car (without ramps which are useless due to failure). Obviously, I just crank em as is in the air and have replaced CAs multiple times. Surprise, they didn't wear out.
I also grease up the front pin and bushing sides. I can't explicitly remember, but I'm pretty sure it just rotates under the weight of the car when lowering.
Last edited by Child_uv_KoRn; 10-13-2019 at 04:59 PM.
10-13-2019, 06:35 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,449
hint: it doesn't matter. The position of the rear bushing does not change whether it's hanging or compressed, b/c it's pressed into the arm AND DOES NOT SWIVEL (aka fixed position) like a regular CA (like on RWD nissans or most other cars).
Good luck fully tightening the front one with any weight on it, b/c you're not going to get a big wrench under the car (without ramps which are useless due to failure). Obviously, I just crank em as is in the air and have replaced CAs multiple times. Surprise, they didn't wear out.
I also grease up the front pin and bushing sides. I can't explicitly remember, but I'm pretty sure it just rotates under the weight of the car when lowering.
Good luck fully tightening the front one with any weight on it, b/c you're not going to get a big wrench under the car (without ramps which are useless due to failure). Obviously, I just crank em as is in the air and have replaced CAs multiple times. Surprise, they didn't wear out.
I also grease up the front pin and bushing sides. I can't explicitly remember, but I'm pretty sure it just rotates under the weight of the car when lowering.
The rear bushing with the wings on it is fixed, nothing you can do about it.
But for the front, the metal bushing inside the rubber bushing is welded to the rubber. So increasing the angle of the transverse member before torquing down the nut on the bush link pin allows the metal bushing to rotate before being compressed/fixed in place by the nut. There is no free-play on the bush link pin once tightened.
But I torqued all my crap down while it was up in the air and hanging. Who cares.
It does state in the FSM however, to torque the transverse member fasteners with a load on them. SU, Pg. 12 Step 9: "During installation, final tightening must be carried out at curb
weight with tires on the ground."
10-13-2019, 06:54 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: maryland
Posts: 732
Since it's a DIY........just make sure you've tighten down all the front and rear control arm bushings with the control arm fully loaded. What I mean by fully loaded is that all the weight of the car need to be on the front wheels or the ball joint end of the control arm. You don't want to tighten down the rubber bushing ends of the control arm while the car is jacked up and wheels are hanging down, that is not the natural position of the car when the car is on the ground. If you tighten everything down with the wheels hanging down there will be tremendous amount of twist on those rubber bushings when the car is back down on the ground. That will throw off your alignment a bit and those bushings will tear again in a few months.
am considering how I can tighten on load without the wheel being off. Even if I drive up on a ramp reaching the upper nut will be a problem.
this will be my 3rd LCA in 18 months...
10-13-2019, 06:56 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: maryland
Posts: 732
hint: it doesn't matter. The position of the rear bushing does not change whether it's hanging or compressed, b/c it's pressed into the arm AND DOES NOT SWIVEL (aka fixed position) like a regular CA (like on RWD nissans or most other cars).
Good luck fully tightening the front one with any weight on it, b/c you're not going to get a big wrench under the car (without ramps which are useless due to failure). Obviously, I just crank em as is in the air and have replaced CAs multiple times. Surprise, they didn't wear out.
I also grease up the front pin and bushing sides. I can't explicitly remember, but I'm pretty sure it just rotates under the weight of the car when lowering.
Good luck fully tightening the front one with any weight on it, b/c you're not going to get a big wrench under the car (without ramps which are useless due to failure). Obviously, I just crank em as is in the air and have replaced CAs multiple times. Surprise, they didn't wear out.
I also grease up the front pin and bushing sides. I can't explicitly remember, but I'm pretty sure it just rotates under the weight of the car when lowering.
10-14-2019, 06:17 AM
#21
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 116
1....jack the car up, support the car on jack stands on the frame rail or pinch welds.
2....place a jack under the ball joint end of the lower control arm and jack up until car is slightly lifted off the jack stands, that would be where the control arm sits when car is on the ground.
10-14-2019, 06:51 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: maryland
Posts: 732
if doing it with the wheel off.....
1....jack the car up, support the car on jack stands on the frame rail or pinch welds.
2....place a jack under the ball joint end of the lower control arm and jack up until car is slightly lifted off the jack stands, that would be where the control arm sits when car is on the ground.
1....jack the car up, support the car on jack stands on the frame rail or pinch welds.
2....place a jack under the ball joint end of the lower control arm and jack up until car is slightly lifted off the jack stands, that would be where the control arm sits when car is on the ground.
thats good info. Just visualized the work. Doesn’t sound hard.
10-14-2019, 06:13 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,449
if doing it with the wheel off.....
1....jack the car up, support the car on jack stands on the frame rail or pinch welds.
2....place a jack under the ball joint end of the lower control arm and jack up until car is slightly lifted off the jack stands, that would be where the control arm sits when car is on the ground.
1....jack the car up, support the car on jack stands on the frame rail or pinch welds.
2....place a jack under the ball joint end of the lower control arm and jack up until car is slightly lifted off the jack stands, that would be where the control arm sits when car is on the ground.
11-17-2020, 07:56 PM
#25
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Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4
I let firestone put the driver's side LCA on and apparently the tech was going to tighten up that bolt after he put it on the alignment rack but forgot to do it. The front and rear bushings and ball joint were completed destroyed in about 6,000 miles. I'd imagine tightening up that bolt in the wrong position (even if just slightly wrong position) will cause the bushing to fail prematurely by forcing it to twist too far in one direction while not far enough in the other.
I think that bolt also has to be torqued to spec as well, like100 ft lbs or so which will also effect the durability of the bushing, and can cause premature wear to the upper strut mount. If not installed correctly it will add stress and tension to all the other rubber bushings and joints in front suspension (including engine mounts) resulting in undesirable handling characteristics, particularly in wet conditions.
11-18-2020, 10:01 AM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Kissimmee FL
Posts: 994
I highly recommend energy suspension bushings for the lower control arms and rear trail arm bushings.
when my car was pulling to one side a lower ball joint I had pressed in came loose, the alignment shop had pointed it out to me.
how old are your struts? have you checked your rear trail arm bushings?
when my car was pulling to one side a lower ball joint I had pressed in came loose, the alignment shop had pointed it out to me.
how old are your struts? have you checked your rear trail arm bushings?
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