Mharvey500

I have a 2000 infiniti i30 with 200k km. It is probably the original control arm bushings. I don't see any cracks and no evidence of weakness I am wondering if I should replace them to get better more predictable handling and control. If so what is the procedure to replace the bushings on the existing control arms?

Theslaking

Bushing get worn from use regardless of visual failure.

Mharvey500

I'm curious in what way the bushing would be worn if it is not visible. I've always thought bushings had to crack first before replacing and I have probably suffered consequences. Perhaps it depends on the type of material used in the bushing and the manufacturer.

slvr2KSE5

I guarantee you need the right front lower at a minimum.

Mharvey500

That makes sense since my right strut wore out before the left. The right side seems to hit a lot more pot holes.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Front-low...kAAOSwxCxT9fOs

rodent_infested_03

I need passenger right because ps fluid ate up the front bushing. The wheel actually moves and a horrible rattle over bumps. Cheap part.

Going to replace the arm in spring.

slvr2KSE5

That's why I said right front. I've yet to see one without a wasted rf bushing thanks to oil contamination.

Mharvey500

On close examination I can see cracks in the bushing that gap open when I pry. This is the left but the right is similar. I have ordered two new Moog control arms.

Mharvey500

So to answer my question to this thread "do I need lower control arm bushings?", the answer is probably no. They helped a bit but I asked the question because something is bothering me in the handling of the car. Since replacing the control arms I also replaced the steering rack mounting bushing and one of the rear bearings. I can vouch for the goodness of the following parts: tie rods (inner and outer), front struts, ball joints (in new control arms). In the rear: rear struts, trailing arm bushings and lateral link (rear). I checked wheel bearing axial play and it was ok. Funny the rear right bearing was good on the end play but needed replacement.
The symptom I am complaining about is wandering steering even at lower speeds. I keep having to correct the steering. The steering rack is tight, no play in the steering wheel.
So I am coming around now to the front wheel bearings. They don't make any noise and there is no perceptible play, but the question is: can wheel bearings seem to be good when checking but be failing under load?

rodent_infested_03

Sure wheel bearings can fail all kinds of ways including getting tight under a load or taking a corner. I had one pulling problem that ended up being a dragging caliper. I found that with my infrared heat gun. I also had a situation where the core radiator support was failing. So the engine drops down which messes up the transmission. The drive wheels would lurch awkwardly during acceleration

Mharvey500

So that means after trying everything else and still having problem, one would be justified in replacing a seemingly good wheel bearing that doesn't show any classic symptoms of wheel bearing wear.

rodent_infested_03

Have you checked brake wear? Does it wander in a specific direction?

Mharvey500

Break wear is ok and wandering is in both directions. It feels like going over the crest of a road and following the other side except the road is flat. The feeling is not too strong but it is there nonetheless. I'm going to take a closer look at the inner tie rods. Maybe it won't take too much play to cause that slight wandering.

Mharvey500

I was reading somewhere the steering rack can wear out even before it starts to leak and it might be a good idea to rebuild it.

slvr2KSE5

I wouldn't replace the bearings.

No play between the steering wheel and the rack? Recent tire replacement? Sometimes tires can follow grooves in the road. Any tire feathering? May be a toe issue.

Mharvey500

I have winter and summer sets of tires. They are all from 2014 and are worn to their wear marks but wear is normal and even. I had same trouble with winter tires and was hoping summer tires would be different, but no. So I would prefer to fix this issue before buying the new tires, if possible. Also the toe is ok for four wheel alignment. The front toe is slightly negative and the rear toe is extra positive. They compensate for each other. Camber and caster seem ok too. I should take it in for a professional alignment, but I do it in my garage roughly with string rectangle and then finely with test drive.

slvr2KSE5

Rear toe being extra positive will definitely make the car unstable. Get a real alignment.

I got fired once because we had an old Isuzu pickup in with a severe pull to the right. I said send it out for an alignment (my boss insisted on selling alignments then doing them with a string and camber gauge.) Toe checked out so he asked me why it was pulling. I answered I don't know... Get me an alignment printout and I'll be able to answer that for you.

That made his blood boil (I had already been vocal about his methods being less than honest) so I get fired. Interview comes up with unemployment board, questions get asked, he loses his fight. Truck was fixed with a real alignment.

Mharvey500

According to FSM, rear toe maximum is 0.43 degrees, front toe minimum is 0 degrees.
My readings (using string) are rear +0.67 degrees, front -0.33 degrees. So with this even though it is out of spec I am not getting abnormal tire wear, but it is difficult I guess for the car to sustain stability.
The big problem with rear toe is it is not adjustable.
I could adjust front to 0 degrees and try it out. But likely that will introduce abnormal tire wear but if it improves the ride it may be worth it.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Put that extra large pry bar to work and see if if there is any play in the LCA bushings...

scotty64

if you have an oil leak from the cam sensor, it will drop oil onto the bush and eventually it will start to wear out. also the sleeve insert over time may elongate the the hole for the bolts. you might not see cracks or bits missing at the ends , there could be damage where you cant see it. rubber does not last forever, its has a finite life span

EDIT:....late reply to this thread as i have not been on for some time

Mharvey500

I took it for the first alignment ever during the 3 years I've had this car.

So the question is what school of thought is correct. Can you correct a rear misalignment by compensating with the front toe or must the front toe be limited by the manufacturer's spec?

Before explaining what happened I would like to share what happened years ago when I owned a BMW. I took it to a respected BMW mechanic for an alignment. I noticed on the printout he had put the front toe as an extra positive degrees. I asked him why, he said it is because the rear toe is out of alignment with negative toe and cannot be changed. He said the front compensated for the rear and I would get not get abnormal tire wear. Mind you I didn't like the way the car drove so I had another mechanic forcefully bend the rear wheel back. He overshot the target by twice so I had extra positive rear alignment and consequently the front toe was made negative to compensate, and the ride was superior to the prior case.
Now that I have this Infiniti I inherited the same misalignment on my previous car, so knowing the trick I undo the rear misalignment by purposely misaligning the front in the opposite direction.
Now here's the thing, the alignment I got yesterday, I told them not to change it but just give me the readings because they wanted to bring the front toe into the manufacturer's narrow spec without regard for the rear toe in. When I told the guy I was not getting tire wear he was surprised.
I'm glad I got the reading because it corrected an error in my rear toe measurements. Rear toe is +0.33 degrees, not +0.67 degrees as I misread the tape measure. Rear toe is actually within spec.

uptownsamcv

get cheap control arms from Rockauto.com so you have fresh ball joints and go with Energy Suspension control arm bushings and sway bar bushings, your steering will feel so much stable. I would also recommend the rear trail arm bushings. when the rear trail arm bushings leak out the oil the rear of the car gets really unstable, dangerous when doing a hard stop on the highway....

Mharvey500

I have done all that and more except for the energy suspension brand and the sway bar bushings. The car feels great now that the bushings have settled in. The front toe is negative to compensate for extra positive rear toe. That is really key to getting a good ride but can be difficult to arrange at your average alignment shop. As I found out it is better to do it myself.