FYI = CL-S 6spd dyno results in, compare to 2k2 Max...
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,816
[kungfu]Your Horsepower is strong grasshoppa but my torque is stronger yet![/kungfu]
Seriously though. Looking at the initial overlay of the two charts, yes the CL-S does PEAK it's horsepower and torque over the maxima. However, for most of the power curve, the maxima is at least 15 hp and 20 more tq than the CLS until about 5500 rpm where the roles are reversed. You take the area between the curves, and I think the maxima has the advantage here. The CLS only makes more power for about 2000 rpms in the upper rev range.
Of course this is all inconsequential in real life it will come down to a driver's race. Regardless, I don't understand what all this talk is about the 2k2 losing power after 5000 rpm. I think mine keeps going strong, or maybe I just have one of them "high end breathers"
Check out my dyno at:
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...page_id=211190
Seriously though. Looking at the initial overlay of the two charts, yes the CL-S does PEAK it's horsepower and torque over the maxima. However, for most of the power curve, the maxima is at least 15 hp and 20 more tq than the CLS until about 5500 rpm where the roles are reversed. You take the area between the curves, and I think the maxima has the advantage here. The CLS only makes more power for about 2000 rpms in the upper rev range.
Of course this is all inconsequential in real life it will come down to a driver's race. Regardless, I don't understand what all this talk is about the 2k2 losing power after 5000 rpm. I think mine keeps going strong, or maybe I just have one of them "high end breathers"
Check out my dyno at:
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...page_id=211190
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Posts: n/a
Everyone seems to forget when your floored the car will never seen under 4k of rpms again after shifting, that is why the CL-S will have the advantage because it will always be in its most powerful band, unlike the Maxima its only down low. Also the CL-S tops out at 7100rpm, not 6500.
Originally posted by Mike S.
I don't kid. I don't get it. No, I'm not a kid, but I don't get it.
Why the big fuss.
From Idle to 5500 the Maxima is making around 15ft-lbs more than the cl-s. From 5500-6500 the Cl-s is making 15ft-lbs more. Now, I totally understand that when racing(except for 1st) you spend time only from say 3500-4000 to redline. But why such a big fuss. The max will dip into so big torque, but the honda will pull harder at redline. BUT the max 150lbs less. Doesn't that 150lbs cancel out the 15ft/lbs.
Now how bout every day driving? Won't the max feel better with all this power on tap? I don't think the gear ratios are much different, there both 6sp for christ sakes, and the redlines are close too, but I do see that the cl-s goes to 7 grand.
Its also COMEPLETLY rediculus for two very fast cars to "kill" each other. On the street, with differnt launches, street races of simmilar cars come out as kills, but drive both, and they are probably equally as fast!
I don't kid. I don't get it. No, I'm not a kid, but I don't get it.
Why the big fuss.
From Idle to 5500 the Maxima is making around 15ft-lbs more than the cl-s. From 5500-6500 the Cl-s is making 15ft-lbs more. Now, I totally understand that when racing(except for 1st) you spend time only from say 3500-4000 to redline. But why such a big fuss. The max will dip into so big torque, but the honda will pull harder at redline. BUT the max 150lbs less. Doesn't that 150lbs cancel out the 15ft/lbs.
Now how bout every day driving? Won't the max feel better with all this power on tap? I don't think the gear ratios are much different, there both 6sp for christ sakes, and the redlines are close too, but I do see that the cl-s goes to 7 grand.
Its also COMEPLETLY rediculus for two very fast cars to "kill" each other. On the street, with differnt launches, street races of simmilar cars come out as kills, but drive both, and they are probably equally as fast!
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He is right on what he said!! Also glad my auto weighs less than a 6spd! :P
3440 at the track.
3440 at the track.
Originally posted by SteVTEC
The VQ35DE already has both VIAS and VTC's. The difference between what the VQ35DE has and what the Acura's J32A2 has is that the Honda has the traditional VTEC system that uses multiple cam lobes to alter both timing and lift/duration. After 4800rpm it hits the fat cam with more lift and duration whereas the VQ35DE is still on the same cam lobes that it is at idle, only in a different state of advancement (timing, not lift or duration).
So that could explain the J32A2 engine's better top-end.
Power to Weight Ratio: 2k2 Maxima 6spd vs. CL-S 6spd
Acura CL-S 6spd: 217 fwhp / (3446/2000) = 125.9 wHP/ton
Maxima SE 6spd: 205 fwhp / (3224/2000) = 127.2 wHP/ton <== SLIGHT Advantage
Weight data from www.autosite.com (Russ is BS'ing on the "only 100lb difference" crap. I'll go with factory data to ensure the playing field remains level... )
So the Max 6spd still has a slight lead in power-to-weight, but seriously, the difference is not significant and it really is a driver's race, IMHO.
But yes, the extra torque of the VQ should make the car feel peppier and more responsive around town than the CL-S. But as just stated, when you're racing you're all at the top end except for the first couple of seconds.
Happy CL-S 6spd hunting guys. May the force be with you!
The VQ35DE already has both VIAS and VTC's. The difference between what the VQ35DE has and what the Acura's J32A2 has is that the Honda has the traditional VTEC system that uses multiple cam lobes to alter both timing and lift/duration. After 4800rpm it hits the fat cam with more lift and duration whereas the VQ35DE is still on the same cam lobes that it is at idle, only in a different state of advancement (timing, not lift or duration).
So that could explain the J32A2 engine's better top-end.
Power to Weight Ratio: 2k2 Maxima 6spd vs. CL-S 6spd
Acura CL-S 6spd: 217 fwhp / (3446/2000) = 125.9 wHP/ton
Maxima SE 6spd: 205 fwhp / (3224/2000) = 127.2 wHP/ton <== SLIGHT Advantage
Weight data from www.autosite.com (Russ is BS'ing on the "only 100lb difference" crap. I'll go with factory data to ensure the playing field remains level...
)So the Max 6spd still has a slight lead in power-to-weight, but seriously, the difference is not significant and it really is a driver's race, IMHO.
But yes, the extra torque of the VQ should make the car feel peppier and more responsive around town than the CL-S. But as just stated, when you're racing you're all at the top end except for the first couple of seconds.
Happy CL-S 6spd hunting guys. May the force be with you!
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Posts: n/a
Remeber the CL-S has the advatage due to the fact that you don't race below 4k of rpms, every shift you make is above 4k when topping out each gear. 1st gear for a few seconds is all you have.
Originally posted by Chinkzilla
[kungfu]Your Horsepower is strong grasshoppa but my torque is stronger yet![/kungfu]
Seriously though. Looking at the initial overlay of the two charts, yes the CL-S does PEAK it's horsepower and torque over the maxima. However, for most of the power curve, the maxima is at least 15 hp and 20 more tq than the CLS until about 5500 rpm where the roles are reversed. You take the area between the curves, and I think the maxima has the advantage here. The CLS only makes more power for about 2000 rpms in the upper rev range.
Of course this is all inconsequential in real life it will come down to a driver's race. Regardless, I don't understand what all this talk is about the 2k2 losing power after 5000 rpm. I think mine keeps going strong, or maybe I just have one of them "high end breathers"
Check out my dyno at:
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...page_id=211190
[kungfu]Your Horsepower is strong grasshoppa but my torque is stronger yet![/kungfu]
Seriously though. Looking at the initial overlay of the two charts, yes the CL-S does PEAK it's horsepower and torque over the maxima. However, for most of the power curve, the maxima is at least 15 hp and 20 more tq than the CLS until about 5500 rpm where the roles are reversed. You take the area between the curves, and I think the maxima has the advantage here. The CLS only makes more power for about 2000 rpms in the upper rev range.
Of course this is all inconsequential in real life it will come down to a driver's race. Regardless, I don't understand what all this talk is about the 2k2 losing power after 5000 rpm. I think mine keeps going strong, or maybe I just have one of them "high end breathers"
Check out my dyno at:
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...page_id=211190
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
Originally posted by RussMaxManiac
Remeber the CL-S has the advatage due to the fact that you don't race below 4k of rpms, every shift you make is above 4k when topping out each gear. 1st gear for a few seconds is all you have.
Remeber the CL-S has the advatage due to the fact that you don't race below 4k of rpms, every shift you make is above 4k when topping out each gear. 1st gear for a few seconds is all you have.
I didn't even look at wTQ/weight, but the Max would have a huge advantage there and help you get off the line better from stoplight races. But again, very very close.
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by SteVTEC
But Russ, inspite of the Acura's better top-end, the Maxima is still winning the wHP/weight ratio race because of much less weight. The advantage still goes to the Max up top, not the Acura. But again, it's so close that it's seriously a driver's race.
I didn't even look at wTQ/weight, but the Max would have a huge advantage there and help you get off the line better from stoplight races. But again, very very close.
But Russ, inspite of the Acura's better top-end, the Maxima is still winning the wHP/weight ratio race because of much less weight. The advantage still goes to the Max up top, not the Acura. But again, it's so close that it's seriously a driver's race.
I didn't even look at wTQ/weight, but the Max would have a huge advantage there and help you get off the line better from stoplight races. But again, very very close.
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
Originally posted by RussMaxManiac
Yea its very close, but the weight isn't enough to make that huge of a difference. 3440 my car weighs, a 2k2 auto maxima loaded weighs 3320. You figure the math. Yes a guy locally weighed his at the same track that weighed mine.
Yea its very close, but the weight isn't enough to make that huge of a difference. 3440 my car weighs, a 2k2 auto maxima loaded weighs 3320. You figure the math. Yes a guy locally weighed his at the same track that weighed mine.
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Originally posted by SteVTEC
Manufacturers rate the vehicle curb weight with a FULL LOAD OF FUEL (and spare, and fluids on board) if I'm not mistaken. To keep the playing field level lets stick with manufacturer curb weights, okay
Manufacturers rate the vehicle curb weight with a FULL LOAD OF FUEL (and spare, and fluids on board) if I'm not mistaken. To keep the playing field level lets stick with manufacturer curb weights, okay
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,968
Why must this go on and on???
For the 1000th time, good...a CL-S might have more power...might have better top end..., short end of the story is that it is a coupe, the Max is a sedan. Different sizes, different roles.
If we give a rat's *** about comparing the Max to everything out there which is not in its segment, why the hell don't we dwell on how the dyno's/performance of a Max compete against an NS-X??????
I mean this is not that far out, since obviously alot of this discussion totally dismisses the inherent price differences...if so, let's throw cost completely out the window and worry about F50 dyno's.
If we give a rat's *** about comparing the Max to everything out there which is not in its segment, why the hell don't we dwell on how the dyno's/performance of a Max compete against an NS-X??????
I mean this is not that far out, since obviously alot of this discussion totally dismisses the inherent price differences...if so, let's throw cost completely out the window and worry about F50 dyno's.
If we all just say that Russ is right and the rest of us are wrong, Honda is God's gift to the automotive world, and the J32A2 just simply
ROCKS!
then maybe relevant posts will receive more attention by all of us.
Please close this now useless thread.
ROCKS!
then maybe relevant posts will receive more attention by all of us.
Please close this now useless thread.
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