And a Nissan is??


Quickest 02-03 automagic stock: 14.6 - blubyu2k2
Quickest 04 automagic stock: 14.6 - ga2000



I don't think the people that buy GTPs really care.

GTP $25k, average reliability, decent service, high depreciation, high-14's stock
Max $30k, better reliability, sh1tty service, average depreciation, high-14's stock
TL $34k, best reliability, awesome service, low depreciation, high-14's stock

So there's nearly a $10k spread in prices. At least when you have a problem with the Pontiac, they'll actually fix it, even if you have mods, and won't make you jump through hoops like Nissan does. You get what you pay for.

Just playing devil's advocate.

 

A nissan is... Japanese

stick to stick 5th gen is quicker than 6th.

I think a lot of people care that they have gtps (because its super duper charged) and I have had encounter with man of these people who try to show me off and i end up beating them.

well, as far as the tl, you get what you pay for...34k is alot. I think if you are paying 30k for a maxima, then you should deserve better service... GTP, GM is the largets automaker in the world, sad that they cant do some R&D to developea really really good cars... but they are more interested in profits i guess... and end up paying for recalls. If you look at the japanese competetors, their cars are overall higher quality and they have less recalls (correct me if im wrong). I dont hate american cars, i just dont trust them... I am not a rich person, if i pay 25k for a car, i want it to last.. and thats where i dont look at american cars.

 

man my 5th gen has had too many problems for a japanese car..

i have to schedule an appt (thanks for reminding me)

my SES light is dim (many people have had it), my left speaker doesnt work on my "Bose" system (again another big thing), my drivers seat doesn't move back and forth (what the hell!?), accelerator hesitation...

wow if this japanese car has these many problems, I feel bad for the "american" cars

also Stevtec did some owning!

 

what if you aren't looking for quality but for performance (that is what the GTP advertises anyway)

why care about a camry? everyone has it...it's boring too

you are basically paying for performance and space in the GTP, they don't give a crap about interior...only us Maxima/TL people seem to care about that

 

lol, thats a lot of ****. I got the hesitation taken care of, but everything is Aokay. Are you the only driver of your car, and how much do you weigh? How loud do you usually play the music? I just havent had problems with my jap cars, i had an 87 accord that gave me less problems than my 95 ford. At the time, the accord had 180k miles, and the ford had 80k. My parents had buicks and chevys that didnt go to well, and my uncle basically hated his chevy sonoman and corsica. We now still have the ford, and the 03 maxima, but im about to get a toyota.

 

i swear I have all those problems, and I get 17mpg (well I did that ECU reset and I think I fixed my lag and they said the gas mileage goes up so let's hope)

yeah my 94 Toyota Corolla gave me no problems at all! Well 1, and that was the alternator--it had to be replaced. Besides that, I think this car is going to outlast the Maxima and it had a 135k mile headstart! it has about ~148k miles on it now.

My parents had 3 oldsmobiles, they were nice roomy torquey cars but 1 car gave a lot of trouble, 1 died, 1 was stolen.

My uncle had a 91 Ford Taurus...worst car EVER. Another uncle back in the day had a '88 Skyhawk...2nd worst car EVER.

I can't even think of any relatives with an American car

I kinda think like you but now that many "japanese" cars are made in America, I stopped thinking that way for some reason. Like the Last gen Camrys and current gen Camrys...they have all been built here and I see no problems with them. They are even more reliable than us! Well that can be because we beat our cars more than they do Same with Accords, this gen and previous gen--they are also built in the USA

Damn that was a long post

 

I really don't know how you can conclude that when the automatic times are equal and when nobody with an 04 6spd has made it to the track enough to really practice and get their 60's down. The very first 02 6spd time was a 14.8 by Paul2kGXE / Paul6speed. The few 04 6spd guys here have already managed 14.6-14.7 with equally lousy 60' times. When they get their launches down (and they will) they will be in the low-14's just like the 02-03's.

Higher quality and reliability all have a pricetag associated with them. If you want the ultimate in reliability, quality, and service, you go buy a Lexus and you'll pay for it. But the reality is, not everybody really cares about all of that. If high reliability was at the top of everybody's list then a lot of domestic automakers would have either been out of business long ago, or they would be just as reliable as Japanese cars because of market demands. But there is still demand for lower cost sedans that perform and make tradeoffs on reliability to get there.

2002 Sales

Nissan Maxima: 98,502
Pontiac Grand Prix: 130,141

Source: www.autosite.com

It's not that GM "can't" build high quality cars. It's just that their market does not really demand it. They want lower cost above higher reliability. The lower cost, lower reliability, non-lux market is alive and well in the USA.

 

Well, the Grand Prix is a strange car to compare to the Max b/c the Grand Prix has 3 different engines, with only the S/C'ed one as a real threat to the standard Maxima engine. They are supposed to be targeted to the same overall consumer audience, but the GP covers a wider range of what the consumer wants power wise (yes, some people just want to go point a to b with a slow a$$ 3.1L V6)...

 

blubyu2k2 isnt the only 02/03 auto that has cracked the 14.6* 1/4 mile I have and a few others stock has as well.

 

Yeah I know, but I just used him as an example because he posts a lot.

 

what is the fastest 02 or 03 auto stock anyway?

 

I've had 14.66...but usually run 14.71-14.75~ish at 92.5-93 MPH

 

Well, they are only made in american to cut costs, i think the 5th gen, most of it was made in japan (because the I35 is the global maxima or was the global). Its not where its made, but who makes it. I am not mad at american prodcuts, i think they need to "upgrade" the materials.... and im starting to hate the designs of the new japanese cars aka Camry.....

 

I agree with you a 100 percent. I usually dont came to the 6th gen area, but 5th gens established they are quicker... also magazine times was something i looked at. Higher quality and reliablity dont always come with a high price tag, and the corrolla, camry, civic, and accord have proven that... also, sure reliablity is not on everyones mind, but the people who cant afford constant repairs need that confidence when they buy a car. Also, driving a maxima, i like the vq even though i complain, and when i drive a ford taurus, it feels terrible... the inside is soo cheap, and there is no design to it. The outside isnt that sexy like the max either. Ford taurus is a good car, but compare it to an equally equipped accord and what would you get? The maxima is also like this, a great car. In the end, for and GM have to revert to 0 percent interest because thats the only way they can sell... japanese cars dont because they sell regaurdless... And you hear about ford and gm closing factories.. people.. american people loose jobs over it. Look at toyota and how it exploded in the last 10 years, now its huge, and i have read that it might sell more than ford this year (but I think the new f150 will change that). Also, camry is so butt ugly, but people get it because they know it will last.... If ford and GM wanted business, they would make Toyota build cars to match american standards, and not for us to match japanese standars in quality and reliablity... GTP is in the middle of this, its a good car.. but not as good as competetors.. I think GM makes very good cars, but they need to stop making the same car, and rebading it, with the same crappy materials... When most people go japanese they may never go back... I didnt know what i was missing until I got my max... I used to hate the maxima, I thought the whole car was ugly... but I fell in love when i drove it... I drove a taurus, GTP, Alero, Cougar, nothing gave me that feeling I got with the max.

That was a long post, sorry... I just would for once like to see ford not screwing up with suv flip overs, or bad transmissions, and etc...

 

I think someone hit a 14.4 with a stock manual... 5th gen.

 

My opinion why American cars have in the past been less reliable than imported cars is all about economics. Do American companies really want to produce an automobile so reliable that no one needs to purchase a new one in less than ten years? We need to keep our economy going and people employed thus we produce automobiles not as reliable as say Japanese cars.

And why are Japanese cars more reliable for the most part? Because if they made a less reliable car then they would constantly have to cover additional costs just to repair/maintain vehicles thousands of miles overseas.

That's my opinion, hopefully the future holds better things for American cars.

 

Whoa whoa whoa guys. Hold on. My first reply wasn't a bash. Re-read. 2nd, the L36/L67 (Grand Prix/GTP Engine) is on the 10 best engine list of all time, according to JD Powers and Associates. I think the VQ is on there too.

I'm not here to bash. I'm here to gain some knowledge on your guys cars. I just suggested you guys do the same. for ours before you bash GTP's. Facts are facts. That's all I'm stating. We are equals on performance and handling. Beyond that is pure emotion and opinions.

-GTPguy/Ultra Magnus on Clubgp.com

 

Guess I never really thought of it that way... ok, lets say the engine sucks in reliablity.... what about the quality of the materials inside and out?

 

I apologize if I said some words to make it seem like GTP + all american cars are not worth buying... Basically, i was aiming more towards the "cheaper" parts they use for the cars... I know you guys probably had a choice between the GTP and other cars, maybe even a maxima, but got the GTP instead because you liked it.... And In the end that is what is important, that you got the car you like... I know I did.

Dont worry man, I dont think it started from your post.

 

This thread has been a great read I can envision a round-table television show where auto enthusiast square off on weekly topics.

The GTP has been on my short list the last two purchases. I know this has been mentioned throughout, and it really is true....we all have different decision rules that lead us to our purchases...and they can and do change from time to time. I've had two GP's and now on my 2nd Max. After I started driving German and Japanese cars, I really started to appreciate the materials and fit n finish that I don't see offered by Ford and GM (in cars I can afford). My bro-in-law has a GTP and although he respects my Max he would never buy one....interior quality doesn't matter that much to him and he's certainly not willing to pay for it......its all good baby

 

I had to choose between these two cars...I liked the potential in the GTP [more boost etc] but chose the MAX because of the fantastik engine/looks/build quality....Which is faster who cares...They are probably stock dead nuts, which comes down to driver...I wanted a quiet affordable daily driver, quality, and some decent HP and i have it in the MAX And if i want to get crazy, i have the Z

 

Heh heh, this is a Nissan board. Z usually means something else here.

 

You got that right I as I was thinking Z its no that much faster than the Max I have both, then I saw his sig. Z06 (modded)!

 

I tried to make all this one post, but apparently I have too many quotes in one post.

As far as American vehicles are concerned, I believe that the Maxima is more of an American car (not counting it's Japanese origin) because it's built in Smyrna (which puts food on American tables). The Grand Prix is built in Ontario (thus, feeding Canadians--I'm not hatin' Canada, either!). The US-sourced parts content on the Maxima isn't much lower than that of the Grand Prix.

BTW--I'm proud of Nissan plant in Canton, MS... At least one automaker has an interest in MS...anyway...

LOL

Matt
1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme convertible
(1 of 8,638 for 1994MY)
3.4L DOHC V6
triple white
Only mod: Head-Up Display

 

I'm not correcting anyone to be self-righteous, but there are a few posts that have some misinformation in them.

GM did not do the testing. According to the 2004 GP sales brochure, the testing was performed by Pro Formance Driving Events and sanctioned by the SCCA. If I can find my dealer education (oxymoron!) book I can give you more detailed information about the testing. I'll be looking for it.

Matt

 

The 3.1L got dropped with the 2003 model (it was about time). 2004 GPs are only available with the NA 3800 Series II V6 or S/C 3800 Series III V6.

 

As far as GM vehicles being unreliable... The majority of the GM cars we have purchased (we were the 2nd owner of most of them) have lasted over 200,000 miles with sometimes unregular service (some with no service at all...just oil changes!). Albeit the interior quality of GM products has been lacking since... well, since the beginning We've been through:
1981 Oldsmobile Cutlass Brougham 350 (life ended for it at 184,XXX with bad tranny)
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 305 -- ended up with 193,XXXmi--wrecked
1985 Buick Park Avenue 350-- ended with 213,XXXmi--general engine failure
1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera 3.3L--traded at 205,XXXmi
1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme convertible (3.4L DOHC V6)-- bought it at 57k in July'01. It has 121,527(just checked) and is running strong.
1994 Chevrolet Silverado (5.7L) 215,XXX--still running strong
1995 Chevrolet W/T (4.3L) traded at 235,XXX (still going, Dad hates he got rid of it now...)
My friend's mom has a 1998 Buick LeSabre (NA 3800 Series II) with 133,XXX trouble free miles.

Although we've hardly ever had trouble with the engines on these cars, the interiors are, well, junky. I just replaced a lower door panel on my convertible ( http://www.geocities.com/authorboy/pictures ) for the second time, the interior quality isn't as crappy as it is made out to be. The new Grand Prix interior is light years beyond the 1997-2003 (and previous generations as well)

What can I say about GM using a pushrod in it's cars? It's a good engine, and really reliable (except for a head gasket problem on the Series I) and have lots of low-end torque. Besides, in the good ole' days when my convertible was produced, GM put the 3.4L DOHC V6 in GTPs. They weren't as quick as they are now, but had great high end for 10 years ago...

BTW, I love Maximas (and Nissan in general) and this board is exceptional! I never considered Nissan products until I was involved in a terrible traffic accident while riding in one...I honestly believed it saved my life...no BS. Add to that the fact that Nissan has visited the brink of death and has come back in a fantastic way. That is something GM could not do with Oldsmobile.

I'm sorry if my post is jumpy, and that I had to post 15 times. Great board, folks...lots of intelligent conversation. Most other boards would be in a flame war right now

One more topic, and I'll be through for tonight... I believe that both the 2004 Grand Prix and Maxima are great cars. Here are my likes and dislikes of both:

Pros: Grand Prix
--Exceedingly versitile Head-Up Display (Why did Nissan abandon this technology in the '90s Maximas?)
--Great rear seat headroom
--Excellent multifunction Driver Info center
--paddle shifting
--rear doors that open up 82°
--fold flat front passenger seat
--OnStar
--improved quality for '04
--excellent low-end torque

Cons: Grand Prix
--instrument console tilted too much toward driver
--built in Canada
--not enough headroom
--"spoiler-type" sunroof, sometimes blocks XM reception
--rear seats better off used as park bench
--rear seat cushion too low.
--no auto climate control
--no 5 (or 6-speed auto)
--no manual tranny (if I so desire)
--not enough high end for my taste
--lack of exterior and interior color choices

Pros: Maxima
--Built in US!
--great instrument console, and cluster
--wheels fill up wheel well better than GP.
--available 18" wheels.
--navigation system
--available rear buckets!! WooHoo! (just like my convertible)
--top-end, top-end, top-end
--HID headlights (high- and low-beam, right?)
--flush mounted spoiler
--choice of SkyView or regular sunroof
--classy (IMHO) fabric on door panels and dash
--lots of interior color choice

Cons: Maxima
--not enough rear headroom (comfortable cushion, though)
--dash seems too low
--front seat doesn't adjust far enough down for me
--cheese grater grille (could be worse...)
--solid center part of grille (where Nissan emblem is mounted)
--lack of color choices
--wish there were more stand alone options

If you've made it this far, you've accomplished something!
Thanks for reading (even if you want to kill me now).

Matt
1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme convertible
1 of 8,638 for 1994 MY
3.4L DOHC V6
triple white
Only one mod: Head-Up Display

 

First off, DAMN!!!! good post... I remember back in the day when those cadillacs where big as hell... and i saw a wreck once where it was a cadi and a honda accord (80s model) and it just look like the cadillac had a fender bender, and the accord rolled over and fell off of the grand canyon... those where the good old gas guzzlin days....

Sad that oldmobile was terminated, i really liked their new cars.... except the Alero....

What do you think about the new Cadillac designs?

 

In response to the Heads Up display Nissan offered it in the 89 and 90 Maxima GXE only with the Luxury and Leather package, it didnt go over to well with Maxima crowd at that time. The 89 and 90 with those packages were the most electronic/digital Maximas ever and was very expensive to repair especially that Sonar suspension they had in 89 and 90. 91 Nissan went more conservative and didnt offer all of that "gadgtry" anymore learning it wasnt very popular those 2 years.

 

i think the GTP is a very decent car that applies to a certain crowd. if you are looking for a nice interior, its the wrong car for you. i really wanted to get a used 99, but i couldn't find any with low miles/well maintained in my area, so i ended up with the max, which i've been very happy with.

everyone thinks "if you put a supercharger on the maxima it'll be much faster"
well then, why are there gtp's in the 10's and 11's while our supercharged maxima's are struggling with 13's let alone 12's???
mardi gras just barely made it into the 11's and no one else has been able to.

i've seen gtp's with just a pulley and 9" cone filter break into the 13's.

people bash the gtp supercharger for making so little power, but it has potential to create a lot of additional power with minor mods.

lastly, you guys are insulting the way the gtp looks. i admit the new 04's aren't an aesthetic marvel, however the 97-03 look damn good. better than any maxima has ever looked, and thats coming from a maxima owner.
the 3rd gens look like a box, 4th gens look like camry's, 5th gens were just a mistake that nissan is now making up for taking the altima platform. the 6th gen is decent looking minus the grille. the back looks very nice now, with the dual exhaust.

 

looks like someone bought the wrong car

 

that post makes no sense. why would you purchase a car if you thought it was ugly? thanks for the opinion anyways

 

I love them. As with most GM interiors, the CTS could be better. Take a look at the new SRX (crossover/sportwagon/whatever) and see what a few extra dollars worth of wood and chrome can get...if wood & chrome are your thing. I hope that GM softens the look of the Art&Science theme (they've done so with the SRX, a little) but then again the CTS was such a jolt when it came to market. BTW, I think that's the Cadillac Cien concept on this site's autoaccessorystore.com ad

I'm impressed! I usually never get an answer that quick. Thanks for thorough explanation. Didn't Nissan offer it on other models too (240SX?) Maybe I'm dreaming...

Matt

EDITED for spelling and grammar.

 

With style being so subjective is hard to comment. What I believe is true in most cases is that some designs are timeless and some are trendy.

Caddy = Trendy, look at me I'm different, because the designers couldn't pull off a stream lined look so I will make a bunch of sharp angles ..

As far as speed ... , I always throw up the 90 - 91 Dodge Spirit RT 0-60 5.8 and less 14.0~ on the 1/4 with stock tires. With a few mods you are looking at 12's or less. And now the Neon srt4. My point, so what if a car is fast, there is a lot more to it.

So when people brag about speed ONLY, they should be carefull to realize that they are putting them selves in the class of these type of cars and they are very very very fast.

A neon at the track when I raced got a 13.2~@104. I guess the neon is the greatest car ever.

Now reliablity is interesting, if companies employ the same weak designs for years the reliablity shouldn't be that bad (they fix them over time and parts are less stressed with low output engines, simple sloppy suspensions, and bland/cheap interiors). But, if they push the envelope, the inferior products show up. Also, it is a measure of how well a product maintains it's level of fit & finish over time and this where true POS shine like the noon sun.

 

I hear ya why but a car that you dont like the looks of, Maxima have always looked and thats why GM and lots of other MFGs's targeted the Max when looking to improve. 3rd gen Boxy not I would say the 1st and 2nd gen are, but the 3rd gen with its timeless style is the one that really put the Maxima on the map and won tons of comparisons/awards along the way. It set the pace for all subsequent Maximas. Maxima have always looked good with out looking gimmicky and cheap lick the GP with that horrible cladding. The 97-03 base GP looks horrible without the siding stuff its looks even cheaper and the 04 well looks worse.

 

Yes the 240 had it available from 89-90 as well as a part of the XE coupe "power convenience package".

 

Wasn't there an issue too with the amount Nissan had to pay GM, a licensing fee for use of the head up display patent?

 

Whats up the the 04 rims? I hate all pontiac rims.. they need to offer sports rims....

 

well...some people don't have the money to get the car they want
as i explained i couldn't find a gtp in good condition for the price

maybe if you learn to read more carefully, you'd notice that i said i am "HAPPY" with my car.

its not always about looks buddy...its not like maxima owners think the maxima is the best looking car on earth.......? there are other reasons to purchase a car

i posted this because some people are bashing the gtp for no reason.
i dont think the max looks that great...so what? now i can't buy the car?
if i wasn't a student busting my a$$....i would have probably got something different...but for my situation its fine

i think you took my post the wrong way

 

Same here, when I first say the 5th gen, I thought it was ugly as hell.. then when i saw the 2004, i was like hell no, and bought an 03, and after owning it and driving it, i was totally for the maxima....