upgrade flywheel?
08-17-2005, 10:21 AM
#41
I don't care where you grew up. I have been wrenching on cars since I was a kid also. Plus I've actually installed/driven/experienced both stock/stock lightened and performance lightened units. Have you any more experience than mere speculation and websites that don't offer any more information that I've already stated??
Why do you insist on believing some other websites but not this one?? Odd.
The reason why most makers use heavier (NOT heavy) flywheels is to make the driving experience smoother and make driving a manual tranny easier. It also makes the shifting easier and smoother. Now THIS is ALSO a trade off. You trade off performance for easier driving. Now ask ANYONE who actually has installed a Findanza or similar if their driving is any more difficult than before. Most if not all experience a miniscule difference. After about 10 minutes, they don't even notice the difference. But the performance differences greatly outweigh the "trade off" that's required. But again, I've said this more than once already.
Why do you insist on believing some other websites but not this one?? Odd.
The reason why most makers use heavier (NOT heavy) flywheels is to make the driving experience smoother and make driving a manual tranny easier. It also makes the shifting easier and smoother. Now THIS is ALSO a trade off. You trade off performance for easier driving. Now ask ANYONE who actually has installed a Findanza or similar if their driving is any more difficult than before. Most if not all experience a miniscule difference. After about 10 minutes, they don't even notice the difference. But the performance differences greatly outweigh the "trade off" that's required. But again, I've said this more than once already.
Originally Posted by darrinps
Boy do I ever agree with that.
Let's just agree to disagree!
FWIW, I'm not against a lightened flywheel. I just wanted to point out some (possible) negatives so the person who asked wouldn't be lead down a rosey path thinking all was great. There are always trade offs.
BTW, to the crack (not from you) about insinuating that I didn't know what a flywheel was for, you are correct as to the purpose in that ride quality is a large part of it for sure. Oh, and yes I knew that. Look, I'm 39. I grew up on cars. Spent a good part of my youth hanging around the race shop my dad did the welding at (on the shop's race car). I've bought and read as many books from Smokey Unich to Bob Bondurant and read as many Hot Rod Magazine articles as anyone. I've done darn near everything from changing oil to porting (and I'm not talking a basic "street port") cylinder heads. So, don't go acting like I'm some young snot nose kid who doesn't know anything. I'm no Yates, but I'm not a complete idiot either.
Let's just agree to disagree!
FWIW, I'm not against a lightened flywheel. I just wanted to point out some (possible) negatives so the person who asked wouldn't be lead down a rosey path thinking all was great. There are always trade offs.
BTW, to the crack (not from you) about insinuating that I didn't know what a flywheel was for, you are correct as to the purpose in that ride quality is a large part of it for sure. Oh, and yes I knew that. Look, I'm 39. I grew up on cars. Spent a good part of my youth hanging around the race shop my dad did the welding at (on the shop's race car). I've bought and read as many books from Smokey Unich to Bob Bondurant and read as many Hot Rod Magazine articles as anyone. I've done darn near everything from changing oil to porting (and I'm not talking a basic "street port") cylinder heads. So, don't go acting like I'm some young snot nose kid who doesn't know anything. I'm no Yates, but I'm not a complete idiot either.
08-17-2005, 10:27 AM
#42
http://www.ramclutches.com/Products/flywheels.htm
If your engine and gearing combination requires more power or inertia to make the car launch without bogging the motor, you will want a heavier flywheel. Keep in mind, though, that a heavier flywheel will be slower to accelerate through the gears. A lighter flywheel creates less inertia at launch, but will accelerate quicker through the gears. In order to effectively use a lighter flywheel, you must consider the car weight, operating RPM of the engine, and most importantly, the gearing. Too little gear will cause the engine to nose over or ‘bog’ on launch.
http://www.mazdatrix.com/f-writng.htm
The above reasons are why there are basically three types of flywheels offered. The stock units are fine for most "normal" driving, as done by the vast majority of drivers. The light steel ones are great for "spirited" street driving, middle range autocross classes, some drag racing (heavier is sometimes better), and just general high-performance applications that will still be driven on the street sometimes. The lighter aluminum flywheels we continue to not recommend for street driving, but there are MANY of our customers doing it. We just do not want complaints, or returns, from anyone who purchased an aluminum flywheel, and then didn't like the way it felt when driven on the street.
Selective googling =
Also you above link is referenced for VW 4 cylinder engines with alot less hp. If one chooses flywheel that's too light, driveability might suffer too much. But we have V6s with much more hp and torque. Also most units that are used are NOT ultra light units. 11-12lb units are PLENTY heavy for smooth takeoffs and smooth shifting. Only the most minor changes are required to get used to this. ie.. about 10 min of driving if that.
I run a 11 lb unit with a ACT street clutch kit. This is probably one of the "worst case" situations from your standpoint of drivability. But ANYONE can get into my car and get used to it within 10 min. Even if they never driven my car before. Coupled with an easier clutch, they probably wouldn't even know I had a 11 lb unit in there. (unless they punched it
)
If your engine and gearing combination requires more power or inertia to make the car launch without bogging the motor, you will want a heavier flywheel. Keep in mind, though, that a heavier flywheel will be slower to accelerate through the gears. A lighter flywheel creates less inertia at launch, but will accelerate quicker through the gears. In order to effectively use a lighter flywheel, you must consider the car weight, operating RPM of the engine, and most importantly, the gearing. Too little gear will cause the engine to nose over or ‘bog’ on launch.
http://www.mazdatrix.com/f-writng.htm
The above reasons are why there are basically three types of flywheels offered. The stock units are fine for most "normal" driving, as done by the vast majority of drivers. The light steel ones are great for "spirited" street driving, middle range autocross classes, some drag racing (heavier is sometimes better), and just general high-performance applications that will still be driven on the street sometimes. The lighter aluminum flywheels we continue to not recommend for street driving, but there are MANY of our customers doing it. We just do not want complaints, or returns, from anyone who purchased an aluminum flywheel, and then didn't like the way it felt when driven on the street.
Selective googling =
Also you above link is referenced for VW 4 cylinder engines with alot less hp. If one chooses flywheel that's too light, driveability might suffer too much. But we have V6s with much more hp and torque. Also most units that are used are NOT ultra light units. 11-12lb units are PLENTY heavy for smooth takeoffs and smooth shifting. Only the most minor changes are required to get used to this. ie.. about 10 min of driving if that.
I run a 11 lb unit with a ACT street clutch kit. This is probably one of the "worst case" situations from your standpoint of drivability. But ANYONE can get into my car and get used to it within 10 min. Even if they never driven my car before. Coupled with an easier clutch, they probably wouldn't even know I had a 11 lb unit in there. (unless they punched it
)
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