HELP! 300zx pads are smaller than Maxima pads
04-23-2006, 10:31 PM
#1
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HELP! 300zx pads are smaller than Maxima pads
I notice that the 300zx pads are smaller than the Maxima pads!! This cant be good. Look at these links which show pad dimensions:
300ZX pads:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts...d+Parts+%3E%3E
Maxima pads:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts...d+Parts+%3E%3E
What do I do now??
300ZX pads:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts...d+Parts+%3E%3E
Maxima pads:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts...d+Parts+%3E%3E
What do I do now??
04-24-2006, 05:34 AM
#2
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,269
I knew this car had pretty beefy brakes stock...I dont know much about brakes, but if the sizes of the front and rears are way off...I would imagine the calipers wouldnt fit on the rotor either.
If I were you Id see if you could get disks that fit those pads, that fit onto the car...if thats even possible. The calipers fit, right?
If you had the caliper on the front assuming it fit....and put the Z's pads on which are smaller than OEM, they would fit the rotor...but since the Z's rear pads are wider and longer by a lot it probobly wouldnt work. This is all my speculation of course, just ideas.
If I were you Id see if you could get disks that fit those pads, that fit onto the car...if thats even possible. The calipers fit, right?
If you had the caliper on the front assuming it fit....and put the Z's pads on which are smaller than OEM, they would fit the rotor...but since the Z's rear pads are wider and longer by a lot it probobly wouldnt work. This is all my speculation of course, just ideas.
04-24-2006, 07:12 AM
#3
Originally Posted by 04BlackMaxx
I knew this car had pretty beefy brakes stock...I dont know much about brakes, but if the sizes of the front and rears are way off...I would imagine the calipers wouldnt fit on the rotor either.
If I were you Id see if you could get disks that fit those pads, that fit onto the car...if thats even possible. The calipers fit, right?
If you had the caliper on the front assuming it fit....and put the Z's pads on which are smaller than OEM, they would fit the rotor...but since the Z's rear pads are wider and longer by a lot it probobly wouldnt work. This is all my speculation of course, just ideas.
If I were you Id see if you could get disks that fit those pads, that fit onto the car...if thats even possible. The calipers fit, right?
If you had the caliper on the front assuming it fit....and put the Z's pads on which are smaller than OEM, they would fit the rotor...but since the Z's rear pads are wider and longer by a lot it probobly wouldnt work. This is all my speculation of course, just ideas.
I've never been so confused after reading a post before.the Z pads are Smaller. the rears a little thicker, but otherwise still smaller. why would he want even smaller rotors? my head hurts
04-24-2006, 07:42 AM
#5
The stock 6g brakes offer enough stopping ability. Why change it?
Most of the 4g/5g guys do the 300zx caliper upgrade. They would feel the benefit more. Are you not satified w/ the 6g stopping power?
Most of the 4g/5g guys do the 300zx caliper upgrade. They would feel the benefit more. Are you not satified w/ the 6g stopping power?
04-24-2006, 08:40 AM
#6
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Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by NismoMax80
I've never been so confused after reading a post before.the Z pads are Smaller. the rears a little thicker, but otherwise still smaller. why would he want even smaller rotors? my head hurts
04-24-2006, 08:45 AM
#7
DEUS, in only 25 years old but do me a favour.
Place your left hand on the edge of a table palm down, now with your right hands edge (blade part) smack the top of your left hand.
Place your left hand on the edge of a table palm down, now with your right hand, place the palm on the top of the left hand. Now jump up in the air so that all the pressure from your right hands palm is transfered to the top of your left hand.
Which one felt like more pressure. The edge (blade part of hand) or palm? Imagine same effect on your pads against your rotors.
In the bigger pad you have less direct pressure and more places for gases to build up, in the smaller pad you have more direct pressure and less likeley to have gas build up.
Look at the pads for a Willwood Superlite 6 pot kit. The size is almost the same as the maxima, actually a little thinner and narrow. The point is the pad friction is applied to an even area with equal pressure 3 pistons per side. This in effect generates more braking force bacause the pad does not taper on one end as it would under a single piston design.
DEUS, its like totaly ok DUDE!!
Pad size doesnt matter much, applied equal force to pad and pad tapering maters more. If you have a huge pad and the pressure is only applied to one part of it, (TOP of directional rotation), the pad will taper and the trailing edge of it will not have as much contact as the leading edge. This will cause the leading edge of the pad to heat up way faster and generate brake fade.
Now if you have equal pressure across the pad and equal force across it, you will have better stoping distance due to lack of pad tapering and less heat stress on one part of the pad.......
Do you concur Doctor?
Kam
Place your left hand on the edge of a table palm down, now with your right hands edge (blade part) smack the top of your left hand.
Place your left hand on the edge of a table palm down, now with your right hand, place the palm on the top of the left hand. Now jump up in the air so that all the pressure from your right hands palm is transfered to the top of your left hand.
Which one felt like more pressure. The edge (blade part of hand) or palm? Imagine same effect on your pads against your rotors.
In the bigger pad you have less direct pressure and more places for gases to build up, in the smaller pad you have more direct pressure and less likeley to have gas build up.
Look at the pads for a Willwood Superlite 6 pot kit. The size is almost the same as the maxima, actually a little thinner and narrow. The point is the pad friction is applied to an even area with equal pressure 3 pistons per side. This in effect generates more braking force bacause the pad does not taper on one end as it would under a single piston design.
DEUS, its like totaly ok DUDE!!
Pad size doesnt matter much, applied equal force to pad and pad tapering maters more. If you have a huge pad and the pressure is only applied to one part of it, (TOP of directional rotation), the pad will taper and the trailing edge of it will not have as much contact as the leading edge. This will cause the leading edge of the pad to heat up way faster and generate brake fade.
Now if you have equal pressure across the pad and equal force across it, you will have better stoping distance due to lack of pad tapering and less heat stress on one part of the pad.......
Do you concur Doctor?
Kam
04-24-2006, 08:56 AM
#8
Might be a blessing in disguise.
Even If the pad is smaller you might still have greater stopping force.
The way I look at it, the smaller pad will help eliminate break pad taper (as long as it sits flush) against the rotor.
Even If the pad is smaller you might still have greater stopping force.
The way I look at it, the smaller pad will help eliminate break pad taper (as long as it sits flush) against the rotor.
04-24-2006, 09:00 AM
#9
Originally Posted by kamilkluczewski
DEUS, in only 25 years old but do me a favour.
Place your left hand on the edge of a table palm down, now with your right hands edge (blade part) smack the top of your left hand.
Place your left hand on the edge of a table palm down, now with your right hand, place the palm on the top of the left hand. Now jump up in the air so that all the pressure from your right hands palm is transfered to the top of your left hand.
Which one felt like more pressure. The edge (blade part of hand) or palm? Imagine same effect on your pads against your rotors.
In the bigger pad you have less direct pressure and more places for gases to build up, in the smaller pad you have more direct pressure and less likeley to have gas build up.
Look at the pads for a Willwood Superlite 6 pot kit. The size is almost the same as the maxima, actually a little thinner and narrow. The point is the pad friction is applied to an even area with equal pressure 3 pistons per side. This in effect generates more braking force bacause the pad does not taper on one end as it would under a single piston design.
DEUS, its like totaly ok DUDE!!
Pad size doesnt matter much, applied equal force to pad and pad tapering maters more. If you have a huge pad and the pressure is only applied to one part of it, (TOP of directional rotation), the pad will taper and the trailing edge of it will not have as much contact as the leading edge. This will cause the leading edge of the pad to heat up way faster and generate brake fade.
Now if you have equal pressure across the pad and equal force across it, you will have better stoping distance due to lack of pad tapering and less heat stress on one part of the pad.......
Do you concur Doctor?
Kam
Place your left hand on the edge of a table palm down, now with your right hands edge (blade part) smack the top of your left hand.
Place your left hand on the edge of a table palm down, now with your right hand, place the palm on the top of the left hand. Now jump up in the air so that all the pressure from your right hands palm is transfered to the top of your left hand.
Which one felt like more pressure. The edge (blade part of hand) or palm? Imagine same effect on your pads against your rotors.
In the bigger pad you have less direct pressure and more places for gases to build up, in the smaller pad you have more direct pressure and less likeley to have gas build up.
Look at the pads for a Willwood Superlite 6 pot kit. The size is almost the same as the maxima, actually a little thinner and narrow. The point is the pad friction is applied to an even area with equal pressure 3 pistons per side. This in effect generates more braking force bacause the pad does not taper on one end as it would under a single piston design.
DEUS, its like totaly ok DUDE!!
Pad size doesnt matter much, applied equal force to pad and pad tapering maters more. If you have a huge pad and the pressure is only applied to one part of it, (TOP of directional rotation), the pad will taper and the trailing edge of it will not have as much contact as the leading edge. This will cause the leading edge of the pad to heat up way faster and generate brake fade.
Now if you have equal pressure across the pad and equal force across it, you will have better stoping distance due to lack of pad tapering and less heat stress on one part of the pad.......
Do you concur Doctor?
Kam
04-24-2006, 06:19 PM
#10
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I concur that pad area is not the only factor. Four pistons are better than one. Would be nice if I could get pads that were a bit bigger. When I get my adaptor kit, Ill keep u all posted.
04-25-2006, 06:36 AM
#11
Originally Posted by DeusExMaxima
I concur that pad area is not the only factor. Four pistons are better than one. Would be nice if I could get pads that were a bit bigger. When I get my adaptor kit, Ill keep u all posted.
04-25-2006, 08:06 AM
#14
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This was some info I pulled from the June 2006 Sport Compact Car issue on Tuning Myths. A Nissan 350Z was used in the study.
Myth #8 Bigger Brakes Make Your Car Stop Better.
The Truth: Although brakes with larger diameter rotors and more piston area will increase braking torque - the ability to stop a wheel from spinning -this doesn't mean that your car will stop quicker. In truth, it is the tires that provide the friction interface between the road and the car. Consequently, they also determine how quickly a car can scrub speed. Imagine putting rock hard commuter tires on a race car with race brakes. All the braking torque in the world does no good if the wheels lockup and the tires skid.
There are some situations in which a big brake upgrade can help significantly reduce braking distances over stock, however. Generally speaking, larger brakes increase thermal capacity, due to increased rotor size and pad area. Increasing thermal capacity allows the brakes to store more heat, which reduces brake fluid boiling (a major cause of brake fade). Larger diameter and thicker rotors also circulate more air and dissipate the heat stored in the rotor quicker. There are caveats to these larger brakes however. Certain pads and rotors work best at the elevated temperatures only seen in racing conditions. Put a racing brake system on your street car, and it may never perform at it's best.
The Fix. If you wat to stop faster, get softer, stickier tires. For better brake feel, change your lines and pads. Get big brakes if you're into circuit racing or drive wildly enough on the street to induce brake fade. - J/C
Just putting what I read out there...
Myth #8 Bigger Brakes Make Your Car Stop Better.
The Truth: Although brakes with larger diameter rotors and more piston area will increase braking torque - the ability to stop a wheel from spinning -this doesn't mean that your car will stop quicker. In truth, it is the tires that provide the friction interface between the road and the car. Consequently, they also determine how quickly a car can scrub speed. Imagine putting rock hard commuter tires on a race car with race brakes. All the braking torque in the world does no good if the wheels lockup and the tires skid.
There are some situations in which a big brake upgrade can help significantly reduce braking distances over stock, however. Generally speaking, larger brakes increase thermal capacity, due to increased rotor size and pad area. Increasing thermal capacity allows the brakes to store more heat, which reduces brake fluid boiling (a major cause of brake fade). Larger diameter and thicker rotors also circulate more air and dissipate the heat stored in the rotor quicker. There are caveats to these larger brakes however. Certain pads and rotors work best at the elevated temperatures only seen in racing conditions. Put a racing brake system on your street car, and it may never perform at it's best.
The Fix. If you wat to stop faster, get softer, stickier tires. For better brake feel, change your lines and pads. Get big brakes if you're into circuit racing or drive wildly enough on the street to induce brake fade. - J/C
Just putting what I read out there...
04-25-2006, 08:20 AM
#15
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Well, I guess the best benefit to this swap is the look and maybe some brake feel improvement due to the 4 piston configuration? It didnt cost much, so no loss there.
04-25-2006, 08:25 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by DeusExMaxima
Well, I guess the best benefit to this swap is the look and maybe some brake feel improvement due to the 4 piston configuration? It didnt cost much, so no loss there.
04-25-2006, 09:27 AM
#18
Ya
Fast car - check
Traffic stop and go - check
Traffic picks up - check
Your breaks are hot - check
Traffic comes to a halt - check
You eat the kisser of a SEMI - priceless!!!!
I had tested our stock breaks!! Totaly "stock"brakes at Mosport Speedway north of Bowmanville. I had the chance to go to Hanson Advanced Driving School. Our Brakes are not all that great by any means. If you pash that car to 70mph then back to 20mph then back to 70mph then back to 20mph..... on the second set of slow downs YOU WILL GET STUPID FADE!!! and i mean stupid amount of fade, I almost ate the grass on one occasion. My wheels never locked up once and the RSA tires held on pretty tight but I was stopping in dry conditions so mot much chance for ABS to kick in.
My brakes are as stock as they get, excluding the caliper paint, but I realized I drive in traffic at almost the same speed intervals.
120kph (70mph) to 40kph (2xmph) and the size and weight of this car is astronomical for such a break design. Now mind you, when a car is designed its for average use and your breaks have plenty of time to cool down, you should be ok. But i would rather be safe then sorry.
Now SS lines are a great feature, but if you re-use that regular DOT3 brake fluid.... well your asking for trouble.
Why??? HAHA!! Because SS is Stainless Steel, now stainless steel transfers heat much more efficiently then regular ruber pressure hose. So what happens to all that heat. Well it travels up from your caliper and heats up the rest of the the fluid in the line as opposed to just the beginning of it. So now all your fluid in the line is hot and not just at the caliper. If you are using SS lines, the German Blue brake fluid (cant recall the name) is all you should have in there as it has a much higher boiling point and will not cause brake fade as much under heat.
Anywhoo, I already had this whole talk with my uncle, Im still waiting for my wilwood 13.6 rotor and 4 pot caliper kit. I will be at the track again next month so once I have the kit installed I will report the difference. NOTE I WILL BE RUNNING MY STOCK RSAs at the TRACK again for closest comparison to OEM brakes.
PeAcE oUt.
kam
Traffic stop and go - check
Traffic picks up - check
Your breaks are hot - check
Traffic comes to a halt - check
You eat the kisser of a SEMI - priceless!!!!
I had tested our stock breaks!! Totaly "stock"brakes at Mosport Speedway north of Bowmanville. I had the chance to go to Hanson Advanced Driving School. Our Brakes are not all that great by any means. If you pash that car to 70mph then back to 20mph then back to 70mph then back to 20mph..... on the second set of slow downs YOU WILL GET STUPID FADE!!! and i mean stupid amount of fade, I almost ate the grass on one occasion. My wheels never locked up once and the RSA tires held on pretty tight but I was stopping in dry conditions so mot much chance for ABS to kick in.
My brakes are as stock as they get, excluding the caliper paint, but I realized I drive in traffic at almost the same speed intervals.
120kph (70mph) to 40kph (2xmph) and the size and weight of this car is astronomical for such a break design. Now mind you, when a car is designed its for average use and your breaks have plenty of time to cool down, you should be ok. But i would rather be safe then sorry.
Now SS lines are a great feature, but if you re-use that regular DOT3 brake fluid.... well your asking for trouble.
Why??? HAHA!! Because SS is Stainless Steel, now stainless steel transfers heat much more efficiently then regular ruber pressure hose. So what happens to all that heat. Well it travels up from your caliper and heats up the rest of the the fluid in the line as opposed to just the beginning of it. So now all your fluid in the line is hot and not just at the caliper. If you are using SS lines, the German Blue brake fluid (cant recall the name) is all you should have in there as it has a much higher boiling point and will not cause brake fade as much under heat.
Anywhoo, I already had this whole talk with my uncle, Im still waiting for my wilwood 13.6 rotor and 4 pot caliper kit. I will be at the track again next month so once I have the kit installed I will report the difference. NOTE I WILL BE RUNNING MY STOCK RSAs at the TRACK again for closest comparison to OEM brakes.
PeAcE oUt.
kam
04-25-2006, 10:44 AM
#19
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Kam: How big are your Wilwood brake pads? DO you know the dimensions? There are a lot of reasons for the fade. Like you indicated, SS lines help out, better fluid helps out, but better pads and better tires will go a loooooooong way to helping out. Also, if u have stiffer front springs, you have less weight shift and thus the braking is spread out more to the rear instead of 90% to the front.
04-25-2006, 11:24 AM
#20
Cattman Springs, everything else is stock. Tires will not give or create more brake fade. Good Tires will just stop you better becuase of their road tension and grip.
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts/index.php?year=2005&make=NISSAN
Select the willwood Superlite 4 for size and dimensions vs the Stock Maxima Size.
Kam
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts/index.php?year=2005&make=NISSAN
Select the willwood Superlite 4 for size and dimensions vs the Stock Maxima Size.
Kam
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