Take a look at this NHTSA recall on '06 Altima/Maxima

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...callsearch.cfm


NHTSA Campaign Number: 06V046000

As previously stated, when following a 6G Max or 3G Altima from behind on the hwy. You often see the cars wander/sway back and forth, you'd think the driver was drunk or on a cell phone.

I have spent a considerable amount of time researching this "shimmy" issue. It is my opinion that the root cause is the rear sub-frame is often misaligned resulting in an out of spec thrust angle. In addition, the un-secured plastic shrouds flanking the engine magnify the problem. All this makes these cars abnormally sensitive to tire selection/pressure/balancing/rotors/struts/alignment etc

You may disagree with my analysis.

Discuss:

 

That makes sense to me.

 

And the fix is what? That sounds JUST like my car, swaying back and forth.. I was starting to think my axles were going or something.

 

Link just takes me to a search page on the nhsta.dot page and the number you supplied was not a number verified by the website. Could you redo the link and or case number. I searched under Nissan 2006 but neither the Altima or Max was listed. Thanks.

 

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...callsearch.cfm


NHTSA Campaign ID#: 06V046000

 

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...intVersion=YES

 

As it states on their website the potential units affected are 759 and thats only for the 2006 model year. There cant be to many people on her who fit the bill for that recall.

 

Why is this only supporting the 06 model what about us 04 05 07 models
that have this issue

 

It should be a reasonable assumption (but of course, not guaranteed) that production after the recall date (02/06) which should include all '07 & '08, would have "the fix".

As far as whether this effects a larger number of pre-2/06 vehicles, that really depends on whether this was either an original design defect or just a production defect that truly effects just those 759 cars. Since it says "manufactured incorrectly" in the recall notice and such a limited range of production is claimed to be affected, it's likely its just the latter case.

While I could imagine that a car with a cracked rear subframe might be a handful to drive, I doubt this would ever have any bearing on the classic "shimmy" issue.

 

can someone catch this swaying on video, I think that would be your best option, might even be worth a try to have several drivers on the same stretch.

I've only ever drove 2 6th Gens, I test drove an 05 SE that seemed to have no noticeable problem, drove fine and smooth, several months later I leased my 06 SE that was swapped from another dealer and it had 150miles on it, never drove it until I signed the paper work and left the dealer, car has been great since.

My only complaints about the car where the tires mostly due to the slight anxiety of the sidewall cracking in the back of my head every time I drove somewhere, the brakes or rotors, they where horrible and really diminish the smooth luxury ride of such a vehicle, after having them replaced I can't believe how smooth this car is, no more shudder/slight vibration from driving or tapping the brakes, and lastly the paint, I convinced myself it was fine but someone asked me if my car was side swiped cause of all the orange peel and I was honestly crying on the inside

Nissan's Brake rotors may lead to the shudder especially at highway speeds, I never experienced the actual shudder except for when I hit the brakes, but with my car, if you looked at the rotors they looked fine, but take the wheels off and look at the inside of the front rotors and they where destroyed, if you have ever seen what a rotor looks like when it's metal to metal wear, visualize that.

I wish I kept the rotors or at least took pictures but I was so happy to have a smooth ride I completely forgot, since some cars have it and some don't it's probably as easy as replacing the rotors, everything that spins needs to be balanced and Im willing to bet OEM rotors are not 100% even in weight which could be the leading cause to the shudder. Tires all look even but when you balance them you see they have light spots or heavy spots same with rotors.

A poll of OEM compared to after market rotors, I don't think anyone with non OEM rotors and different tires or wheels has a shudder

 

Have you seen what an OEM Nissan front brake pad looks like? They are not flat like a traditional pad. The have an angeled shape to them. When new about 50% of the pad does not touch the rotor. As the pads wear down, more surface area of the rotor makes contact. Net result maybe uneven wear of the rotor surface, with the outer diameter wearing less and inner more. When I asked about this pad design, I was told the benefit is to keep the rotor running cooler. I also understand Toyota may use the same type of angeled OEM pads, but not certain.

*When I say angled that is exactly the description, from top to bottom width wise. Different than a common beveled pad at the edges length wise.

 

I've done many brake jobs on 4th and 5th Gen Max's, but the pads were all pretty worn so the shape you mention may not have been evident at that point (if it was there at all on those). I have not looked at the pads in my '07.

Every time I had serviced the brakes on the 4th and 5th gens I just bought new rotors even if I wasn't having any issues. I have had Nissan resurface the oem rotors under warranty (including the '07 at 18k miles), but never had to get the replacements (typically Raybestos PG Plus premium rotors) resurfaced.

 

Please tell me how to post a pic here. i'll snap a shot ......

and upload from hard drive

 

never really looked at my oem pads or the hawk pads that replaced them, but I like the pads that completely touch the rotor

the 30% touching the rotor probably explains why the braking got better as the mileage increased

 

i just took two nice pics.

and its more like 50%-60% doesn't touch the rotor surface but the OEM pads are very thick at the bottom

 

This is the single most annoying issue with this car by a longshot. Im glad this was brought up again because now that its summer I have my summer rims on and notice the shimmy is more pronounced with these wheels on...but last year when they first went on they seemed to make this issue a little better, go figure. Seems unless I am driving on a smooth as glass road, it is perfect...but if there is some waves in the pavement it just turns into a wheel vibration at certain speeds. I havent went for a rebalance of the wheels but they have only about 10,000 mi on them and under normal circumstances there should be no problem. It is definately the car. My GF's beetle has a wheel that I banged back with a hammer on the inner rim to seal a leak and there is no shimmy at any speed! This car is way to sensitive, but if a recall is ever issued I wont have the car anymore.

 

Follow these steps:
1. Go to www.photobucket.com
2. Open an account, if you do not already have one
3. Upload the pictures from your hard drive to your photobucket account
4. Then paste the url of each photo between [img] and [/img] in your post. This thing is also available as the "IMG code" in photobucket.

 

[/IMG][/IMG]

 

Wow... looks like some extra-terrestrial spaceship

 

If you have a higher-rez monitor, you should be able to see the angled pads. But you sure can see the rotors only have polished wear on the most inner diameter.


Which leads me to wonder if this plays into the multitude of reported rotor warping issues. The surface of the rotors have to wind up being a mirror image of the angled brake pads. This would mandate turning the rotors when putting on new pads. The thinking today however is to only turn rotors if you have any warpage/pulsating when old pads are due. If not, its not advised to turn rotors. Many mechanics even routinely change rotors with new pads.

Personally, I have never seen a brake pad that was angled like these Nissan OEM pads.

 

I see what you are referring to in the pics and have never seen anything like that. I can't believe that they could be operating very well with that little swept area.

I haven't looked at mine yet, but I looked at the '07 service manual and they don't look like that there:
They look pretty conventional in the drawing, anyway.

 

The above pads you show are center sloted and beveled at the edges length wise. A conventional design.


I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I first set eyes on these "odd" angeled/swept OEM Nissan pads. I still can't...............

 

Those pics are right from the '07 Nissan Factory Service Manual (couldn't locate an '08 FSM for comparison). I hope your pics represent either an '08 design change or something unique about your car, lol. I'm afraid to look at mine now.

 

You're talking about the bevel in the edges of the pads? If so, at least half of the pads (and ALL of the ceramic pads) we sell at PepBoys are like that, not so 'unconventional' .. not sure if that's what you're talking about though.

 

I always assumed that "sway" was because of the pencil thin sway-bar. Even my '02 has that problem. I've heard people upgrading the sway-bar and either reducing that problem or completely fixing it.

 

No... Reb is saying (and showing in pics) that his pads are beveled in the other direction. The pics I posted from the '07 manual look very conventional.

 

The issue Reb has been having appears to be something else. Although common, "sway" bar is actually not a particularly good or proper name for the piece of hardware you are referring to. They are technically anti-roll bars. They provide additional spring rate at a wheel when there is a cross-axle differential in suspension travel, thereby resisting body roll around the longitudinal axis during turns, but have virtually no effect while running straight and true. Going with bigger (stiffer) bars, front and/or rear, can reduce body roll, but the more important factor in selecting bars is the relative stiffness between front and rear bars - increasing rear roll stiffness relative to the front can reduce understeer (or provoke oversteer!).

What Reb describes is a true sway condition (lack of directional stability) which the anti-roll bar(s) should have little effect on. That said, in cars with poor lateral body-to-axle location and/or a high roll center, stiffer anti-roll bars can actually increase "sway" by forcing the body to "waddle" side-to-side instead of leaning - '70s and '80s GM cars with "sport" suspensions (e.g. Chevy's famous F41 suspension packages - essentially a big fat rear anti-roll bar) were notorious for this effect.

There is little doubt that the 6G suspension is not one that Nissan should be particularly proud of, but Reb's issues are beyond what is normal, even for a 6G. What I complain about in my SE, I would have expected to be completely normal in an SL or any car with a "standard" suspension - I feel virtually the same way driving most American branded cars and certainly (maybe worst of all) in Toyotas and Hyundai's. Its not dangerous... just not as "buttoned down" as previous SE suspensions. Reb appears to have some issue or issues that may be beyond that.

I was just looking at the Canadian Nissan site. There are quite a few differences in the packaging of Canadian Maximas versus U.S. models. Most interesting was the fact that the Canadian SE's call out "firmer front springs and revised front strut/rear shock tuning", which is not mentioned anywhere on the U.S. site (several folks have verified in the past that U.S. SL and SE springs and struts carry same part numbers). So maybe only Canadians get "real" SE's and we SE afficianados in the states are stuck with SL's masquerading as SE's. I would love to drive a Canadian SE... then again, maybe not... I'd be pissed if it really was better.

 

Guess what. Nissan is not going to fix this as I went through all of this before...new steering rack after tightening and all before, road force balancing, and most important, making sure your rotors sit flush against the hub as that can give a shimming not under braking. I bought used springs (Progress), bought new shocks and stuts (GR2s) and spent ~$280 total, problem fixed. I know you think you shouldnt have to spend any money and it is the principle, but Nissan doesn't care and life is too short.

 

I've been contemplating throwing on a pair of rear GR-2s only because the (total lack of) rear rebound dampening is driving me crazy. Even though its a lease, it'd be worth ~$125 to settle down the car's wayward butt for the next two years.

 

I've already bumped this up to consumer affairs. Nissan admits that this issue exists, and it is a "normal characteristic" of this vehicle. Currently there is no known "repair" for this issue. Although,I should check back in 3 months time to see if a "kit" will be furnished to dealers. I found this statement kinda strange. When I pressed for more info, I got the feeling that something maybe in the works. In the meantime, Nissan does not consider this a safefty issue. They have not recieved enough complaints to warrant any "Nhtsa-recall". I was told that I'm free to persue the issue with another dealer. Other than that, I'm on my own. Tough luck, sorry charlie.........

 

So, lets get this straight...at the end of the day, a real fix for the shimmy we all know of does not exist? My car has experienced varying degrees of it throughout its 83,000 miles on the road, and the problem has recently reared its ugly head with the (reinstallation) of my summer tires/rims...only difference is now they are rotated...makes me think balance? But seriously....ANd I have newfront pads and rotors, which shortly after the install had no effect on shimmy so its the wheels and/or tires...why who knows? At this point I really just dont want to pay anything because chances are it will just come back. It is only an issue at highway speeds on certain surfaces.

 

http://m3studiosinc.com/files/SHIMMY.pdf

 

reb
which brake rotor is that, my passenger side looked like that (that looks like driver side) most don't realize that the inside of the rotors nearest the hub does not wear, it has a slight bevel, you would think it should have even wear across but it does not.

my 06 has similar wear patterns so I doubt Nissan changed anything

 

The view is drivers side front looking at the rotor.

 

Anyone click the link I posted?

 

I believe what I'm showing in the pictures is the opposite of what your saying. The brake pad is only making contact with the rotor nearest to the hub. Rotor is wearing nearest to the hub only.


Are you saying the OEM Nissan pads as a set have one angled pad and one flat pad??

 

Yes, but in this thread we are not really discussing the classic "04 shimmy vibration that has been "eliminated" in later models.

What we are discussing is the tendency for 6G's to sway (tramline) on roads that are not perfectly flat. As a poster above noted:

(It is only an issue at highway speeds on certain surfaces.) and more pronounced when crosswinds are prevailing.