m_turner_02

iTrader: (3)

In shocker's case, if I recall correctly, he has a main cat and is still having trouble. I am hoping that it is just from a faulty wiring extension, but it seems like the altima guys are having a few more issues than the maxima guys. oh well....still a quality product, and I can't wait to install them

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Hey guys for what it's worth, one thing my tech said about extending the wires is: solder them, not splice. He said Nissan uses the minimum voltage the have to and each time you splice wires you could affect the milliamps.

BTW I am not going to be going the simulator route, http://forums.maxima.org/6th-generat...rade-time.html I am added a Cattman fastcat to the Cattman Y pipe and extending the wires/02 sensors back behind the cat in the Y-pipe.

theshocker3.5

well sadly all the o2 sensor extension wiring was indeed soldered and I do have a main CAT where the secondary o2 sensors are positioned behind...somehow I'm still receiving primary o2 sensor codes in the obd2 scanner

not sure what else to do....all o2 sensors are functioning properly..

my mechanics said it was because of the increased air flow volume....

oh well, i may or may not decide to try sims depending on how well ampli's setup works

will keep you posted

m_turner_02

iTrader: (3)

for what it's worth, ampli from nissanclub installed the o2 sims with success, but eventually threw 2 codes dealing with his voltage on the sensors. he tested it out, and has since grounded the sims to the chassis instead of using the grounding wire in the wiring harness, and his voltage is back where it needs to be. as of now his cel has gone away......he will probably keep us posted, just wanted to give a heads up

theshocker3.5

Anyone have any issues with their o2 sensors? Will these headers cause them to prematurely fail?

Cattman

iTrader: (77)

Cattman headers will NOT cause your O2 sensors to prematurely fail, but if everything isn't buttoned up tight, exhaust leaks (that draw in extra oxygen) can cause the O2 sensors to fail.

When installing, 1) tighten everything up very well the first time, 2) run the car for a while (drive around for at least 30 minutes, but preferably a couple days) and 3) tighten everything up again. This is standard protocol for installing any exhaust part on any car.

Brian

theshocker3.5

For some of the Altima guys that are still having SES issues with o2 sensors do you see it being plausible that adding an additional or larger CAT in front of the secondaries would cause the SES to go away?

Considering or speculating of course that the SES is caused by an increase in flow over stock. Perhaps a larger CAT would help trick the o2 sensors into thinking it is roughly the same or basically the same as the stock setup?

Thoughts?

theshocker3.5

Second question. Is there anyone on the boards with an 05+ Maxima or Altima that has successfully installed these headers without an SES?

I have failed to find one.

I know deus has had success but he has an 04 Maxima correct? Thus he does not have the new wideband o2 sensors in the 05+ models.

It perhaps seems as though these headers may not have been properly tested on the 05+ versions.

If someone can proove me wrong that would be great but I fail to find the information that prooves such is the case.

To bad really.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

I'll found out soon enough but I think you are closer to the truth in regards to a more powerful cat vs something wrong with the header design. Headers are supposed to improve exhuast flow, thus increasing power etc... I believe they do that, the problem lies more with having to deal with the Wideband 02 sensors. I don't see how designing and manufacturing the headers differently would keep the 02sensors from having issues.
They have to go behind a cat right?

One muffler shop recommended a different cat to me, waaay heavier than the fast cat. Said it was a "brick" type vs the "spun" type fast cat. He said that is what I needed to pass emissions and keep away from CEL. Time will tell, but I am fully prepared to explore different kinds of cats if the need arises.

theshocker3.5

That sounds great Apollos. I definitely am not knocking the header design/product quality because it is excellent, I just think not enough research went into properly analyzing the reasons for triggering the wideband o2 sensor SES light that is problematic for the 05+ models.

I too am thinking of putting in a heavier duty CAT, perhaps a 400 cell or something to that nature.

Keep us posted with your findings!

m_turner_02

iTrader: (3)

I think you should go the route that ampli did before you throw away 400 on another cat.....he seems to have had a little success by grounding out the o2 sim to the chassis instead of using the grounding circuit in the wiring harness

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

I have an 05 Maxima and had no CEL with respect to the headers. I get an occasional CEL because of the TS ECU tune. But no CEL from headers. I have the WB O2 sensors of course. I think people are failing to realize one simple fact - the O2 sensors merely check to see if the cat is working by sensing exhaust gas before and after the cat and comparing the two values. By installing O2 sensors before and after the cat, there should be no CEL if your cat is working and your wires are connected properly

theshocker3.5

Hmmm so you do have an 05....interesting....thanks for clarifying...

All my wiring is fine, no leaks, CAT obviously works fine, it's brand new from the Cattman Y-Pipe..

will get the shop to check the wiring again and the voltage....

the tables have turned again.....

Ampli

Your solution will depends on what is about the codes you car is throwing... primary or secondary sensors?? if you have a cat in the line, why use o2 sim?? normaly the cat would do the job... i'm using sim b/c i'm catless... in that way, sim provide pulses on the 2 sec sensors between 0.3v & 0.6v and that's what the ecu need to see!

theshocker3.5

I'm throwing codes for the primary o2 sensors.....but the wiring checked out fine. Should I do another check and check the voltage as well of each primary o2?

Each wire extension was soldered individually so I doubt that is the problem.

The tech said the primary o2 and secondary o2 sensors work in unison and a misreading by the secondaries can cause a primary code to be thrown.

I wish Cattman had a better write up/explanation of some troubleshooting tips available that we could send out to our mechanics to review and analyze.

Cattman

iTrader: (77)

We research this sort of thing pretty thoroughly. Please credit us with having at least enough sense to test the prototype on an 05+ Maxima. Choosing Deus's car was not an accident. It had the new A/F sensors (to assess any engine code issues) and a manual transmission (which facilitates dyno testing).

Please consider your logic... Claiming that there is no one on these threads without a header that has thrown an SES is like walking through a hospital and surmising everyone in town is sick.

Brian

Cattman

iTrader: (77)

You talk about checking and rechecking the wiring, but how have you determined there are no exhaust leaks? This is the most common issue associated with the primary A/F codes, and all it takes is a small leak. Just because you don't hear "psst, psst, psst" or see black soot it doesn't mean everything's tight.

Was your entire installation re-tightened after running the car for some period? When doing the follow-up torque-down, was there any looseness at a flange-to-gasket-to-flange connection and, if so, was the connection seperated and the gasket checked for burn-through (which often occurs when hot exhaust gasses cross the face of a gasket)?

If the primary sensors are exposed to enough free oxygen (from the leak) they will fail, and the CEL will persist even though the leak is fixed. If you do the research there are no simple reasons or fixes for most emissions-related engine codes. Expecting us to offer a cookbook solution to the variety (take note that these are not consistent issues from car-to-car) of CELs that can spring from exhaust leaks, wiring issues, or simply not understanding the basics of what is required to "trick" the ECU is not reasonable - I mean, if Nissan can't pin these things down in their TSBs (all of these codes appear regularly in stock vehicles too), how can Cattman Performance be expected to?

Brian

theshocker3.5

Thanks Brian for the insight, it is quite helpful. I will go to the shop tomorrow and double check the wiring and voltage as well as make sure all exhaust parts are tight and there are no leaks.

I'm hoping one of these is the answer I'm looking for.

Once that is done I will report back with the findings.

theshocker3.5

Quick question regarding the CAT. We have sniffer tests here only. With the 3-way 300 cell CAT that comes on the Cattman Y-Pipe be sufficient enough to pass?

Or do I need a bigger 400 Cell Cat or something?

theshocker3.5

Another quick question. I know deus has a manual transmission. Mine is automatic so one of the secondary o2 sensors is on the top of the y-pipe itself.

So my mechanic simply plugged that hole and extended both secondary o2 sensors to behind the CAT. Is this logic correct or should the secondary o2 sensor be left in it's original location and have only the one o2 sensor reading the gases behind the cat?

Juiced SE-R

Both secondary O2 sensors need to be behind the cat that way they are both doing their job reading that cat. Your logic is correct sir.. And the 3way 300cell cat that Brian provides should be sufficient enough to pass emissions. Thank god we dont have that in Oklahoma!!

theshocker3.5

Just got back from the garage with another failed attempt at isolating this issue. No leaks, no wiring issues.

Looks like the "common solutions" Brian is proposing to use are simply that of an non researched answer or non available answer with no solution. Sadly this appears to be a standard issue thus far affecting all Altima installations of these headers.

For some reason even the 05+ Maxima is having no issue with this setup but the Altima's are. Coincidence all of the Altima's are having SES issues and the Maxima's are not, I don't think so.

Great product but sadly not enough available knowledge to support the Altima and it's SES issues. Damn you Nissan!

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Kidding, right? Brian researched/test fit these headers for a long time. Many of us were chomping at the bit for him to just release them. These were not rushed out the door at all.

theshocker3.5

No doubt they were researched properly for the Maxima but the Altima crowd is unfortunately having issues that cannot be addressed it seems. 1 Altima owner is having success using o2 sims but the proven method for Maxima's does not seem to apply to the Altima sadly.

IMO it is no coincidence all of the Altima owners are throwing the same codes.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Well... these headers were tested on a Maxima... so...

theshocker3.5

does anyone else hear a small spooling/super charger whine to their car when they accelerate after installing headers...i just noticed this now since i put on 2 more resonators to tone the sound down

thanks!

theshocker3.5

Is it just me or does the exhaust smell more now with headers on....I mean, I know we are losing 2 pre-cats but I figured the new high flow cat on the y-pipe should be good enough to not make that big of a difference....but the car's exhaust definitely smells more now....

theshocker3.5

no fix yet, no possible solution, awaiting details from other altima owners and their trial and errors

theshocker3.5

and a video clip of my exhaust setup SES and all...


http://videos.streetfire.net/video/s...ust_647587.htm

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Has to burn off the residue left over from the fabrication process.

Juiced SE-R

^ True Dat because mine still stinks as well..

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

I was personally involved with the research Brian did and was in daily contact with him to discuss our respective findings. In fact, Brian consulted with the Altima forums and 350Z forums to determine the cause of the CEL. If Altimas are throwing a code, it has NOTHING to do with Brian's research. I cannot imagine why Altimas are throwing a code if the O2 sensors are properly placed - ie two before the cat, and two directly after the cat. I would check to see what codes are being thrown. I would also HIGHLY recommend dyno tuning the car at Technosquare.

Caveat: I had my car tuned this way and it runs great except for cracking the throttle. I sometimes get a misfire code, which of course I clear as soon as I get it.

theshocker3.5

well, it's the primary o2 sensor codes that are being thrown, and all of the Altima guys are throwing the same ones, so who knows...

Juiced SE-R

Brian knows what he is doing and knew what he was getting into when he took this project head on. Thats why us as a community had to wait soooo long because Brian was doing the proper research needed before letting these things loose which alot of people still to this very day are bashing on him which isnt fair to him or the people that helped make this possible. No one else in the world even wanted to mess with taking on a task like this, not even the high and mighty Stillen but Cattman did so lets cut the guy a break he worked very hard and did us a favor so he deserves alot of praise!

I'm still waiting on my new y-pipe but I highly doubt its just an Altima thing because there are Altima owners out there with these headers tghat are doing just fine. I will let you know when I get my new y-pipe and when I am ses free

theshocker3.5

well if you know of any 05+ Altima's that have successfully completed this setup with no SES please provide their info or contact information, maybe they know something we don't!

The best thing to do in this situation is to try and share as much information as possible. I just don't want to go the o2 sim route.

Juiced SE-R

Well if there were individuals that didnt bash the research process of these headers I'm sure Brian would be more than happy to provide that info but I'm not to sure if thast will happen or not. He sells these things remember so he knows who has had success and who hasnt. I talk to Brian on a pretty regular basis so I know whats going on. Call him and ask him and he could give you some more insight on this, alot more than I can.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

What are the codes?

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Okay finally have got my headers installed. Question for you all, did anyone have any issues with the AFR sensors? My tech said that once the headers went in, the wires were about 3inches short, so he put in some 350z AFR sensors (AIR FUEL Ratio) since the wires were longer. He said he was pretty sure they were the same.

I'm schedule for a dyno tune Wed. I am still getting codes but my tech said they were lean codes.

Gas mileage went into the tank initially and finally seemed like it's starting to come around by the time I put about 40miles on them. Last week I avg 25.5mpg highway on the way to work, today 21.5mpg highway but it started out at 13mpg and started to climb.

Cattman

iTrader: (77)

There has been no apparent pattern of drastically reduced gas mileage, so I would have some concerns about those being the correct primary O2 sensors. The ports can only be positioned where they are, at the base of the 3-1 collectors. As I've told others, the sensors have to move to the ports, we can't move the ports to the sensors.

Brian

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Yeah me too. I've only heard of the gas mileage getting better. So are you saying it expected to have to extend the A/F (Air FUEL sensor) wires? I'm not talking about the O/2 sensor we moved back behind the cat in the Y-pipe.

Correction: From the pic, I see the EGR port on the top of one of the headers. The Air FUEL Sensor ports are in the 3 to 1 collector.

So how did everyone get around this? Did you just splice and solder some wires in or were the stock wires long enough. I am going to start re-reading this thread, perhaps I missed something.