shoult

iTrader: (1)

You keep harping on about the economics of the manual not leading to a profit for Nissan for the last 10 years. And the problem with that is that Nissan itself turned away from enthusiasts in the 90's. They (well actually US OBDII requirements) killed the 300Z and then Nissan killed the 4DSC replacing it with a conventional 4 door sedan called the Maxima. Is it any wonder that people looking for a sporty family car with a manual stopped looking at Nissan vehicles? A Nissan that embraced family member enthusiasts COULD have continued profitable manual equipped family sedans sales.

You can't expect to SELL sporty vehicles with a manual unless they are actually capable of being sporty and marketed that way! Nissan STOPPED treating the Max as a sporty sedan, instead pushing it upstream.

This is all fruitless. You say it was unprofitable. I say it was Nissan's fault that they pushed the Maxima into a position where manual sales were unsustainable unnecessarily.

BTW, Nissan entered the most financially troubled period of the existence at the same time they turned their back on enthusiasts. Enter Renualt and Ghosen to lead them back to the path of enlightenment.

lightonthehill

shoult - There is considerable truth in what you say, especially about the Maxima gradually becoming somewhat 'softer' during the mid-'90s. For years, I have been disappointed that NISMO has not been more involved in producing aftermarket parts for the Maxima.

I agree with you that Ghosen may be turning things around. When he spoke about the Maxima around a year ago, he expressed his opinion that it had sort of 'lost its way', and needed to get back to its roots. That is why I still hold out hope for a manual Maxima at some point.

The '09 seems like a more suitable vehicle for a manual than the 6th gen Maxima was. The widening of the stance, lowering of the engine which will have six mounts in '09, the shortening of the wheelbase, the addition of 35 HP, the many enhancements to the chassi; all these lead me to believe Goshen is serious about returning the Maxima to a more sports-minded vehicle, and that movement would be punctuatued by the addition of a manual tranny.

But we will just have to wait and see . . .

chuckie311

iTrader: (1)

stick all the way..that what turned me off on the new maxima i was going to buy it but after i found out its only auto no way.. i drove the cvt transmission i dont like it

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

Believe me, Nissan can afford to put a 6MT option in the gen7. It won't hurt them at all.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

A six or seven speed manual would be great but i can live with the CVT with paddle shift wich is quite fun to drive as well. As fun as it is to drive a manual, the CVT with paddle shift can shift way much faster than any human with a stick, but for the fun it give you a stick is nice. A CVT with paddle shift may mean faster time for the track guy, so who know what the 2k9 will be able to achieve on a track, I mean with all the technology evolution this car is getting, I can only think it will be faster than any of the predecessor.

niceguy

I wonder if the CVT will havethe soft top end characteristics of some of the other CVT equipped Nissans...hopefully not...

doublea

iTrader: (7)

What do you mean by the " Soft top end characteristics "

jcalabria

The acceleration curve mapped into the 6.5G Max CVT noticeably flattens out around 80 MPH. There are some "workarounds" for this, but those of us who otherwise appreciate the Max CVT are interested to see what "refinements" come about in the 7G CVT - not just in the number of "modes" but in the basic ratio mapping as well.

Xservice0183

I think Manual Transmissions should stay to smaller cars, but It's obvious this car is more luxurious sports sedan than anything else. CVT with Paddle Shifters is fun and I agree with Nissan on this decision, I don't really think they had a choice because all the competition will be going this way and the Maxima line was the obvious choice in Nissan's list. Like many others have said here, if you liked past maxima for the 5spds - the Altima may be your best bet. As far as i'm concerned, this is a new car line since 6th gen;

gold4dsc

i'm not really pressed to have the manual option but i do think it would be nice and i don't think they are making a good choice by not adding the manual. most of the luxury sport sedan offer a manual option the G35, TL, 3 series, 5 series, is350, c-class, has a manual option. So they did have a choice, but nissan is trying to get away from manuals in the persuit of better gas milages. but they are also trying to compensate for the lose of the manual with the CVT by trying to give you constants updates and better programing. now we got the 4 mode give it a chance. even with the GT-R they got rid of the manual but its dominating its class. so maybe since these two cars were tested on the same track the transmission folks talked and program the maxima's transmission to operate like the GT-R transmission then birthed the 4 mode CVT. GT-R has a 3 mode auto. just my thoughts

AllBlackMax

I'll take a DSG or EVO X dual clutch.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

^^^ DSG........

gold4dsc

i'll take the GT-R transmission shifts in 0.2 sec and plus sport car tranny for a 4 door sports car

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

a 7 speed automatic

vicpal25

Wow, I just started researching the new 09 Maxima this week and at first I was impressed with the body molds and interior. I was on a hook until I found out that Manual transmission was out! Wow I was truly disappointed!! I have a 5.5 6spd Maxi and I can't ever picture driving no auto. I will be in the market for a new car this upcoming year and I hate to say and leave the Nissan legacy that my family has carried on but I am switching to Honda if Nissan cannot build their legendary sedan to meet us the true drivers needs. I am worried about fuel efficiency and aware of the pros and cons of a CVT transmission but make it optional to us the true drivers. I live in Los Angeles and deal with bumper to bumper traffic on my 6spd and I love it! Ugh, I hate to say it but that Acura TL is looking better and better. Get it right Nissan!

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

G...

lightonthehill

vicpal25 - I agreed with all your statements except the one that says manual drivers are the 'true drivers'. That is an incorrect statement. Almost anyone who wants to can easily learn to drive a traditional manual. I drove them for 35 years. It will require more skill to properly select and handle the FOUR methods of using the CVT that Nissan is giving us on the '09 Maxima.

My daughter has driven nothing but manuals from day one (she began driving 35 years ago), handles shifting like a pro, and will only drive manuals. But she is (and always has been) a lousy driver. My son, conversely, lives and breathes cars, is always working on them, is an excellent driver, and drives TL Type 'S' Acuras with auto trannies because he says shifting every few seconds in horrible Atlanta traffic is nothing but an ego trip. I feel he is right.

In my opinion, the only places a manual tranny would be truly justified are:

1 - Places where there are either mountainous roads, widely varying elevations, or moderate traffic.

2 - For those who are using a vehicle for personal gratification rather than practical transportation.

Having said that, I still hope Nissan adds a manual to the '09 at some point, because a big part of why I and many others drive Maximas is the great personal gratification we feel every time we get behind the wheel.

vicpal25

Well, I say 'true driver' because no other person besides those who enjoy the complete control of a car would enjoy driving a manual transmission in bumper to bumper traffic such as LA or in your case Atlanta. Manual transmission drivers are a dying breed and it does pinch my nerves that Nissan can just SPLAT the crap of all the fans they made with earlier versions of the Maxima. I am a tech junky and I do admire the accomplishments of the CVT transmission. I mean common 19mpg for a car doing 290hp? It mean I am confused on Nissan's goal here. They have the new 09 G35 that is priced similar to the Maxima and has more HP, more features but targets the same market that the Maxima will and best of all it comes in six speed. Sorry to say but my choices are narrowing down to the new 09 Gg35 or an 09 Acura TL-S.

jcalabria

And Nissan is quite pleased that you consider the G35 as an alternate that meets your needs. That is EXACTLY their strategy.

jkayca

OK, someone who enjoys driving a stick in bumper-to-bumper traffic is a sadist, not a "true driver"

Have to agree that Nissan is alienating a lot of their customers by not offering a manual. I would probably buy another auto but then how else would I juggle 2 kids in the back seat, my cellphone and my cup of starbucks?

vicpal25

Yeah, I don't know why I feel like I am cheating on my girlfriend Maxima by looking to a g35 lol. The name MAXIMA meant a lot to me but if Nissan wants me to change to a G35 then ey, lets do it!

ptviperz

Err, push button, mash tall pedal, done.

I'll take the 6 speed any day.

lightonthehill

The thing we have to remember here is that Nissan made the decision back in 2002 or so to gradually take the Maxima 'upstream' to near-luxury, and move the Altima upscale with a 3.5 version that would replace the Maxima as Nissan's '4DSC' (i.e., with manual tranny available).

In view of that previously announced plan, it is obvious that Nissan has decided to do sort of an 'about face' on the '09, with the shortening and widening of the wheelbase, giving the Maxima a more athletic look, adding 35 HP, and mentioning '4DSC' again.

Unfortunately, this has sort of confused us, because we have become accustomed to feeling that a vehicle should have an available manual tranny before it can truly be classified as a '4DSC'. In many ways, I can't argue with that.

I am one who would like to see the '09 available with a manual. But when considering that less than 5% of Maximas buyers between '98 and '06 opted for manuals, and that dealers hated to even bring in manuals because they usually had to let them go below cost just to get them off the lot, I certainly see Nissan's side of things.

The reason Nissan can afford to have a manual in the Altima is that a quarter million or more Altimas are sold each year, big dealers heep dozens, even hundreds, on their lots, and quantity brings down costs. Conversely, the Maxima is a limited production, almost 'niche' vehicle, with sales aimed at only 80K, and many dealers keep only a limited number on their lot. That makes getting certification for, and handling a manual tranny option much more problematic.

Yes, we can complain, but, at the same time, we have to see both sides. If we must have a manual, the Altima has one, and is, after all, Consumer Report's TOP RATED affordable four door sedan.

shoult

iTrader: (1)

Because it's another $5K on top of Maxima money.

ptviperz

I buy lightly used 1-2 year old cars so the price isn't that different. I've seen a 07 G35 w/8K miles for 27. Haven't looked at the Max

lightonthehill

ptviperz - My nearest dealer (Nissan South) has four BRAND NEW '08 Maximas for $19,990 each. Yes, these are base SEs. But the Infinity dealer across the street from my Nissan dealer cannot meet Maxima prices for the G35, new or used.

I did look very hard at the G35 before buying my current Maxima. But the inside of the G35 was not as roomy, I much prefer the more practical FWD, and the price difference was significant.

If I had not needed the room (especially in the rear seat), and preferred RWD, I would have gotten the G35 despite the cost differential. It is an attractive and well-built vehicle.

ptviperz

Wow, that's very inexpensive.

I've got one of each (03G35 and 03 Max) and I like both of them but in different ways. The G35 feels very connected to the road and yet rides better. The steering is also very precise and it will turn on a dime. Quiet and very classy.

I like the interior of the Max much better, less busy layout IMO and a bit more spacious. You do have more road noise with the Max.

I love both of my cars, the G35 is our Auto w/Navi long trip car and the Max is my throw it around powershifting fun car. Whenever I replace the Max (56,000 miles) it'll be with another 6 speed and that will probably be in a G35. I have no interest in CVT.

STARR

iTrader: (1)

I don't care anymore, way to many replies over the lack of not having a manual, I'm sure Nissan is crying over the 50 lost customers

What I really wanna see with this CVT and the 4 different settings, of those 4 give me a fun/fast/hard driving setup and then for those days where I just want to cruise let me switch it to the relaxed mode where I can average 30mpg in the city is that asking for to much, and the other 2 whatever

lightonthehill

Starr - Like you, I am looking forward to trying the new SPORT setting on the '09 CVT. I also want to become more proficient with the tiptronic option, and then try to become a smooth 'paddle pusher'. To really optimize use of four ways of controlling the CVT is going to take some time. So many options, and (at my age) so little time.

ptviperz - Interesting that you noticed more wind noise in the Maxima than the G35. I had forgotten, but your post reminded me I noticed that same thing when I was test-driving both. Had I been single, and not had my wife and three lovely granddaughters often riding with me, I could have easily opted for the G35. After all, its still a Nissan Corp product.

riqyd

I HAVE ADMIRED THE MAXIMA SINCE THE LATE 80s. I NOW HAVE A 5th GEN MAX WITH MANUAL DRIVE. I WOULD LOVE TO TURN IN MY MAX FOR THE 09 MAX IF IT COMES IN A 6 SPEED MANUAL. I'VE LOOKED AROUND FOR VEHICLE THAT I THINK ARE COMPARABLE SUCH AS THE BMW 5 SERIES, AUDI A6 OR S6, MERCEDES E CLASS, TOYOTA, HONDA AND GM BUT THEY EITHER COST MORE THAN THEY'RE WORTH OR JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH. AS I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED NISSAN, THEY HAVE BROUGHT ME DISTASTE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ALTIMA. I BELIEVE THE 08 ALTIMA IS MUCH BETTER THAN THE 04-08 MAXIMA 'THE FLAGSHIP'. AT LEAST IT COMES WITH A 6 SPEED MANUAL V6.

DCUnited10

ok

MaxShadowCT

Every car I've owned has been a Nissan and everyone of them had a manual transmission.
I just can't understand driving any car with an automatic transmission. Then again I don't eat in my car, I don't drink in my car...I DRIVE my car.

Every Nissan has always had the option of auto or manual transmission...why not anymore? The Maxima has been my favorite car for years, I've owned and currently own one (04)...will this be my last Maxima or Nissan for that matter? Maybe so. How can they not offer that option?

I'm not understanding the whole "paddle" thing going on with the steering wheel...you can't paddle gears that don't exist but you can't paddle while turning either...so what's the point? You throw the gear selector into gear...you don't tap it...WTF?

Nissan must think all Americans have a lackluster approach to driving.
I actually like picking the gears I want the car to be driving in.
I feel more in control changing gears and yet doing it all this time, all my driving life, I don't even think about it. I'm actually part of the car, not just sitting there mindlessly aiming it down the road.

What happened to the old Nissan when DRIVEN was its motto?

I would love the 09 "four door sports car" to be a 6 speed manual but if Nissan wont even offer it then they are not the company I once respected.

lightonthehill

MaxShadowCT - Where have you been, friend? The ORG has had at least 46,678,345,582,684 posts regarding the dropping of the Manual at the end of the '06 run.

The are approximately as many reasons for dropping the manual as there have been posts (46,678,345,582,684, give or take a few). No point in listing them yet again. But very briefly:

Yes, many hard-core drivers still prefer a manual. But the percentage of drivers actually buying a manual Maxima dropped to 5% in the late 90s, then to around 2% by 2006. Dealers hated them, as they took up valuable space, and sat there for months. Manual buyers complained there wasn't a good selection of manuals, but that was because there were so few buyers. Sort of a 'catch 22'.

Producing a manual version is expensive for Nissan. Not in developing the manual or adapting it to the Maxima, but in meeting all the federal red tape associated with getting the manual version of the Maxima approved. A different tranny means a whole new validation (emissions, etc). On a 250,000 per annum Altima, that is practical. On a 70,000 copy a year Maxima where 2% buy the manual, it definitely is not.

Increasing federal fleet MPG requirements means manufacturers are going to have to squeeze every MPG possible out of their vehicles. I don't know how closely you keep up with progress, but the '07/'08 Maxima CVT caught the manual tranny in MPG, and the redesigned and improved '09 CVT has passed it. The '09 CVT gets one more MPG than the '08 CVT, even though adding 35 HP. And the margin will only grow as the CVT is improved even more.

The Maxima is now sold as a combination '4DSC' and near-luxury family cruiser. Current variations (S, SV, SV-Sport, SV-Premium, not counting the various tech packages) make it very difficult for dealers to keep all variations on hand. Adding a manual option would double the number of variations.

It would take far too long to get into the paddles here, but your post makes it clear you have not familiarized yourself with the three or four different methods of operating the '09 Maxima CVT, or the advantages/disadantages of each. That would take some time to explain, and might be too much for us old manual folks to grasp. The reality is that the CVT is doing what the old manual did, but without the time and accelleration lost at the exact point the shift takes place.

We folks that grew up on a manual know no other tranny brings back the memories and thrills of days gone by like a manual. But once you reach my (very old) age, you finally realize that to cling to the past in this evolving technological age is to be left behind. I may not like it, but I try to go with the flow, as I don't want to be the trailing zebra that gets eaten by the lions.

MaxShadowCT

So with this mentality, Nissan will keep cutting back models until there is only one version of a car...hell for that matter why not make only one car? That would surely cut costs.

I still don't understand, everyone knows if you try to grab as many of the "nitches" of car line-ups and driver preferences you gain that as a potential buyer. I would have bought an 09 Maxima with a manual transmission but with no option that leaves me no option but to look at another auto maker. One that offers what I want.

A nitch customer is where you either gain that customer or lose one.
If Nissan doesn't want 2% of 70,000 of a $30, 000+ car then Nissan is just ignorant. That is a lot of money potentially not made for Nissan.

But whatever...I guess they don't want that business but other car makers do so that's who'll get my money.

tmas74

my '08 is the first automatic I've ever owned. And I'll never go back to manual. Too much traffic where I live. Now I just ride out.

STARR

iTrader: (1)

If I really wanted a 6speed Maxima I would look into an Altima, but even with Nissan dropping the 6speed Maxima they still have you covered with the Altima and Altima coupe and 350Z, and Nissan's Luxury division has you covered with the G35 sedan and G37 Coupe, for 09 the G37 sedan will debut, you still have options, the 7th Gen Maxima is rumored to eventually get a manual trans, we'll have to wait and see

lightonthehill

MaxShadow - It isn't the 2% of 70,000 copies they lose by not having a manual '09; it is the thousands of dealer lot spaces nationwide that will be occupied by unsold manual Maximas that give the dealer less room for '09s with colors and combinations of non-manual Maximas that WILL sell. A decade ago, that wasn't so critical, but with 13 (or more?) different Nissan vehicle names that now have to be squeezed onto lots, space has become very tight for most dealers, and adding land in most urban areas is prohibitively expensive, if even possible.

Add to that the slight drop the manual now puts in the fleet MPG, as well as the many thousands of dollars to cover the federal certification and emmissions testing the manual Maxima would require. Please understand Nissan would love to have a manual Maxima that would sort of 'seal the deal' as a '4DSC'. They have looked at this very closely. If having a manual would only set them back a small amount financially, they would eat the difference. But the economics just aren't there, no matter how they cut it.

Yes, that is indeed a tough deal for those of us who may prefer manuals. But sadly, as traffic becomes total gridlock over ever increasing areas, and as fleet MPG requirements continue to rise, the time will probably come within the next decade or two when the only manual tranny vehicles by most manufacturer will be very specialized ones such as Corvettes, 350Zs, etc. We don't like that, but then nothing ever stays the same.

bb700092

Nissan is offering the FWD MT in the Altima V6 which can be comparably equipped like the 09 Maxima (baring a few not-so-important options like the dual moonroof but it might get them from its midcycle refresh in 2010) for a much lesser price. Nissan also offers the RWD/AWD MT in the G35/G37 sedan which can be comparably equipped like the 09 Maxima for a slightly higher price. IMO, it was a smart move on the part of Nissan to drop the MT from the Maxima if cost cutting is important.

Having said that, I partially agree with MaxShadowCT that if cost cutting is one of the most important goals of Nissan, they should drop the Maxima altogether. What do we get in a Maxima that we can't get in an Altima V6 or G35/G37 sedan, except a slightly different body style? During the 6th gen, the Maxima was big enough to be a poor man's M but that is not true any more from 09.

lightonthehill

I wasn't aware the Altima had such things as an air conditioned driver's seat and a heated steering wheel. I do know I have spent time sitting in Altimas, and did not get the feeling of luxury I do in the Maxima. The history and reputation of the Maxima is also superior to the Altima. And I have not liked the rear taillights on the Altima since the redesign of around 2002.

As far as space, the shortening of the '09 Maxima by just over ONE INCH was handled by indenting the lower two-thirds of the back of the front seats two inches so the floor in front of the rear seats could be shortened without losing knee room. I have sat in all four seats of the '09 for the primary purpose of comparing the room/space with my 6th gen. I really can't tell any difference.

Of course, with a shorter wheelbase (by an inch or so), wider track (stance), and strengthened chassi with parts from the 'M', the '09 Maxima is a better handling car than the 6th gen or the Altima.

Lastly, not to say appearances are important, but I love the fresh new 'Coke bottle' shape and athletic look of the Maxima, which bears no resemblance to any Altima ever built. Carrying vanity slightly further, a base Altima sells for around $17K, and looks much like a $30K Altima that would be equivalent in price and equipment to the '09 Maxima. Certainly not a vehicle I would have any interest in.

Maxxed03

Man if that car came in manual, I'd do a trade!