bb700092

No, they don't but wait for the midcycle refresh in 2010. Don't forget that in 2007, the Altima got the upgraded chassis, push button start and rearview monitor before the Maxima, while maintaining its price lower than the Maxima. Something similar might happen in 2010 because the Altima is the bread and butter car of Nissan and has to compete with the industry best sellers like Camry and Accord.


When I bought my 07 Maxima, I test drove a 07 Altima V6 and like you, did not feel the luxury. But you will feel more luxury when you sit in a G35/G37. The more money you spend, the more luxury you will get. If luxury is so important, one should opt for the G35/G37, not a Maxima for just a couple of thousand dollars less. In 2007, I did not opt for the G35 because it was priced $5,000+ more than the 07 Maxima while after incentives, the price difference between the 07 Altima and Maxima was barely $1,000.

I am not sure what you mean by the "history and reputation of the Maxima". The Infiniti name has more prestige to it than the Nissan name, so the G35/G37 beats the Maxima on that ground. The 07 Altima was Consumer Reports' best sedan in its category, so the Altima has beaten the Maxima on that ground. Lets see what the 09 Maxima can achieve in terms of "reputation".


Thats your personal preference. Incidentally, I happen to love the current Altima taillights and so do many other people. It is the most unique taillight on any sedan in the US market. Unlike the 09 Maxima's taillights, no one could comment "it looks like a Camry, Accord, etc. etc. etc." after seeing it.


Human judgement is blurred by many factors, especially desire. When you want to like a car (desire), your brain will not let you feel the difference that might make you dislike the car. However, numbers don't lie. The interior dimensions have been posted on this forum numerous times and it is known to everybody that the 09 Maxima is of similar size as the 08 G35 sedan and smaller than the 08 Altima.


Of course the 09 is a better handling car than the 08 Maxima. No doubt. But when a car is made smaller, its handling is bound to improve. The 08 Sentra also handles better than the 08 Maxima, simply because it is a much smaller car, and not because there is some engineering marvel in its suspension, steering, etc. The 09 Maxima's suspension might have been improved from the 08 Maxima (which is again bound to happen for a new model) but its better handling is not only due to that improvement; its smaller size plays an extremely vital role. IMHO, it would have been an achievement for Nissan if they could keep the size of the 08 Maxima and get the handling of the 09 Maxima out of it.

I test drove a 08 Altima just after a 09 Maxima, and I am not ready to believe the 09 Maxima's handling is any better than the 08 Altima. If you can show me numbers, I will believe it, otherwise not.


Again, looks are your personal preference. However, many orgers might not know that the coefficient of drag for the 09 Maxima is 0.33 while that for the 6th gen Maxima was 0.28 with rear spoiler and 0.30 without the spoiler. With rising gas prices, while auto manufacturers should be leaning towards more aerodynamic designs, Nissan seems to have opted otherwise.


While many people share your view regarding this and try to be unique by trying to buy less purchased vehicles, one has to remember that a vehicle might be less purchased due to several reasons, such as high price, bad quality, usability, fuel efficiency, reliability, and so on. Similarly, a vehicle is purcahsed very often because of several good reasons. What you are trying to get -- a lot of car for the money that is also somewhat unique -- is what everybody wants. The only difference is, while you are ready to shell out $35k for a car, someone else's budget might be $15k or $75k. The $15k budget gets a Toyota Yaris and is happy to own the most fuel efficient non-hybrid 4-door sedan. The $75k budget gets a Lexus LS and is happy to own the world car of the year. Similarly the $35k budget owns a car (e.g. 09 Maxima) and is happy about something regarding it. No big deal there.

While the 09 Maxima has some good points, it is certainly not a good car for the money, given its current price. It will certainly be a good car for the money if Nissan starts incentives worth $2000-$3000. IMHO.

lightonthehill

bb700092 - At first, I thought your series of responses were contradicting my statements, but after reading them, it seems we are looking at the same things, and just viewing them from different positions.

I would never deny the Altima is an excellent car, and a better value for the money. I think most folks would say that. For someone on a budget, or someone that just wants the most car for the money, I would suggest they check out the Altima.

Of course you are correct that, just a few years back, the Altima leaped up to the Maxima in many ways - some even say leaped past the Maxima in some ways. And the next Altima will doubtless bring it nearer the Maxima again. That is the nature of generation redesigns.

I agree with you that the G35 and G37 are luxurious, but 35 years of driving RWD vehicles was about 34 years too much for me. I have owned nothing but FWD vehicles since buying two 1985 Maximas, and I will never go back. I have found FWD does better in rain, snow, ice, mud, slippery slopes, unpaved roads, and several other situations. My wife, who also drives the Maxima, agrees. Having the rear wheels not driving the car means they are less likely to slip to the side in curves on wet roads. For my style of driving, FWD is clearly safer. I also like the smaller tunnel (no driveshaft) running through FWD cars.

I agree with you that some people will like the Altima looks better than the '09 Maxima. Every person's taste is slightly different. It just happens that I very strongly prefer the Maxima looks. Of course that is partly a product of the fact I have owned nothing but Maximas for 24 years.

We do seem to disagree on image and reputation between the Maxima and Altima. The Maxima has been virtually an icon for many fans for around 25 years, while, until around 2002, the Altima was considered by most folks to be just another car. Even to this very minute, the Maxima is considered by most automotive fans to be somewhat special, while the Altima is considered (even by Nissan) to be the 'car for the masses'.

I somewhat agree with you on pricing. My dealer currently has a $1,500 'Appearance' fee AND a $3,500 'Market Adjustment' tacked onto every '09 Maxima. That puts their price into the $35K to $42K range. But nobody in their right mind will pay that. I plan to have my '09 with Premium package before the end of this year, and I will not be paying more than $32K to $33K for it. As to quality of finish, those who have already purchased the '09 say everything is put together very nicely, with excellent finish quality. They also say the new CVT is much better than the one on the Altima or the '08 Maxima.

As to comparing the 7th gen Maxima with the next gen Altima, that is sort of like the hundreds here who compared the '07 Altima to the '07 Maxima. The latest gen of cars that are somewhat similar will always have the advantage, but that dosen't make one car better than the other over the long haul; just at that instant.

We must also slightly disagree on pricing and purchasing, in that folks do not always buy in what might be described as their 'price range'. I have paid straight cash for every Maxima I have bought since the 1980s, and could buy a $70K Lexus or Benz and pay cash if I wanted. But I feel the Maxima is a much better and more practical car for my purposes, and costs half the price. I also know folks (two are neighbors) that buy $70K cars on 7 year terms that stretch their budget. People can't always be 'pigenoholed' when it comes to cars.

As I said at the beginning, we are seeing much of the same things, just fitting them into different mindsets. That makes us humans.

bb700092

Light, here is my point. I do not find anything in the Maxima that the Altima cannot inherit in its next midcycle refresh or new generation. So, if you want a Maxima today, get it for $35k. But if you can wait, wait for a year or two and get the same car (but in a different name and body style) for $30k.

Note that this is not the case with all cars. For e.g., you can't say the same between the Altima and Sentra or between the Avalon and Camry. Toyota has kept the Avalon different from the Camry by size, if not anything else. Honda did not find that necessary and made the Accord almost as large as the Avalon. Nissan seems to be confused. Infiniti has maintained its difference between the G and M by size, if not anything else. Why can't Nissan do the same with Altima and Maxima?

Since waiting for a year or two will get me same car as the Maxima (but in a different name and body style) for $5k less, I cannot justify buying a 09 Maxima unless it is priced very close to the Altima.

lightonthehill

[QUOTE=bb700092;6568239] Nissan seems to be confused. Infiniti has maintained its difference between the G and M by size, if not anything else. Why can't Nissan do the same with Altima and Maxima?[QUOTE]



I think that Nissan was indeed confused about the Altima-Maxima relationship when it brought out the '04 Maxima and then virtually matched it with the improved (and same size) Altima a few years later. This caused confusion amongst buyers, and effectively 'painted the Maxima into a corner.' I became concerned for the future of the Maxima.

But I feel Nissan finally thought through this, realized making the Maxima even bigger was not the way to go, and came up with the best solution: The Maxima will be more upscale than ever before - a true flagship to be produced in limited numbers - around 70K, while the Altima will continue its steady improvement as 'everyman's car', be an excellent performer that is very nicely equipped, sell 250K copies, and make Nissan rich.

I think Nissan has its act straight now, and will be very careful from here on out to keep the Altima separate from the Maxima in purpose, image, appointments, HP, handling, available options, and styling. Not by much, but definitely by a little. I would think Maxima will stay wider than the Altima, shorter than the Altima, possibly not quite as roomy as the more family-oriented Altima, more edgy, aggressive and spirited than the Altima, while the Altima will be more tasteful and conservative, and have more models availably with more tranny and engine options, hybrids, etc.

I also think that a top-of-the-line Altima will continue to be priced very near the Maxima SV (maybe $2K or $3K difference).

I could easily do just fine with an Altima, a G35, an M, a Lexus, or a BMW. But I have felt for over twenty years that the 'personality' of the Maxima best fits my (probably deluded) image of myself.

There will never be any question that the Altima would be the solid choice economically. But despite the rhetoric we often hear, most folks look at more than practically when buying a new vehicle. For many (and even I fall in this category), their vehicle becomes a 'public portion of themselves.' Yes, there is a lot of vanity in vehicles for many of us less-mature souls (such as me). Some might even say I sort of live through my Maxima. I can't deny that.

bk2k3max

It's obvious everyone would vie for the 6spd Manual but I think because my wife will want to drive it then it should've been outfitted with a 7 speed CVT.

jcalabria

bk2k3max

I'm not sure what you find that is so hilarious. Obviously i know a 7spd CVT doesn't exist but this post is about what trans we would've liked to have in the Max and since this is a dream post I thought I'd say something that I feel Nissan should make and offer.

BMW have a 7spd Auto offering in their flagship car, so why not???

After all, this is all just a wishlist.

It's guys like you who kill this forum always trying to one-up someone with your so called knowledge of automobiles.

It's obvious you think you can pick on me because I'm labeled as a newbie here but don't let that title fool you because I've been a member here every since I first bought my 2k Max and then later a 2k3 Max in the 90's.

Somehow or another my membership was placed on hold and now that I just bought an 09 I feel it is time for me to comeback and see what's up.

Good to know that we have a few wise-asses here and that things obviously hasn't changed that much.

MAXIMAK99

The reason they laugh is because a CVT (Continuous Variable Trans) cannot be a CVT if it is limited to 7 gears. And yes BMW may have a 7 speed tranny, it's not like it can not be offered, but limiting a specific # of gears to a CVT just can not happen in order for it to be a CVT. And don't take this as an insult or arrogance on my part because I'm sure there are many other things that you may know about cars that I do not. Oh and how could you have bought a 2k and 2K3 Max in the 90's? Congrats on the 09 though, I am envious of you, but enjoy.

Neptune97

Speaking of the CVT, does anyone know if the Maxima CVT is toroidal or hydraulic? Or other? All I know is that during the two test drives I've done, the CVT has been awesome, and I've always driven manual transmissions...

jcalabria

I had been a life-long, die-hard manual transmission driver and have always been critical of automatic trannies - not of the concept, but of the execution. The few times I have found a truly good automatic I have enjoyed them - but that has been a very rare occurrance. The Nissan CVT has been one of those rare enjoyable automatics - especially for someone accustomed to a manual. The always locked TC (any speed above 13mph) gives the drivetrain a solid feel, not unlike a manual driveline, and those that scream about "having control" of their manual gearbox would be quite surprised to learn just how much control your right foot can exercise on the CVT's operation.

As to its technology... it's a belt/pulley system, maybe more appropriately called a belt/"push"ey system, as the steel belt is actually a collection of small steel plates with a flexible "backbone" to hold the plates together. The primary pulley pushes the belt elements together so that it essentially becomes a rigid rod which transfers the torque to the secondary pulley in compression, rather then in tension as in the typical belt/pulley system.

The belt...



The Belt & Pulleys:


The complete Nissan/Jatco CVT:

jcalabria

That just about covers it...

...plus the fact that the Nissan CVT is already a "210-speed" CVT. The stepper motor that controls the pulley positions has 210 discreet positions that can be selected by the TCM. 210 "speeds" should make a BMW 7-speed or Lexus 8-speed seem "inadequate".

I wasn't being critical or feeling "superior" or anything like that... it was just seeing the term "7spd CVT" that made me laugh. No offense intended.

bk2k3max

Cool, I realized I made a mistake when i said I been a member since I bought my 03 in the 90's, a simple typo, I was trying to do 2 "0"s but I hit the 9 key instead. I'm aware of the CVTs actuation without gears, I know it is not like an auto but as I said this was a wishlist and while we're at it Nissan should go ahead and drop a turbo or 2 in this Biatch and call it a "SUPERMAX" and make it AWD with a 6spd or 7spd like BMW.

Wouldn't that be something??

STARR

iTrader: (1)

I wonder if anyone will come out with a tuner for the CVT, all the time I read about these tuners for pickups with 10 different settings for more power for towing, for track use, economy shifting, Nissan should offer a program like this for the Maxima, with a push of a button you go from economy cruising to performance track use

jcalabria

I've been saying now for two years that the CVT Max may be the ultimate chippable car... but its probably a major undertaking for a fairly small market.

lightonthehill

bk2k3max - jcalabria laughed at your post for the same reason I did: it struck a 'funnybone'. Of course we both knew you weren't saying the CVT had gears. We knew you just came up with a really neato way to say you wish the '09 had a normal tranny with 7 gears. I can vouch that jcalabria has never bashed anyone here, even newbies (which you are not) or seniles (which I am).

Of course you have since said everything was cool, which is cool, but I wanted to be sure you knew jcalabria is that rare poster who never bashes anyone.

jcalabria

Well, maybe once or twice I did... but I felt bad afterwards (even though they deserved it, lol). I certainly wasn't here... as I noted, it was just seeing the term 7spd CVT that set me off laughing.

Thanks!

bk2k3max

Cool, I'm not mad at him at all, after I went back and re-looked it I gave a chuckle or 2 myself.