I would never consider a Nissan, that is until I learned about the new Maxima. I think its stunning and very elegant. As for using premium gas, if it costs $1 more to get to work and back (I use two gallons), it will be well worth it. Seems like one will be able to pick one up for around 31-32K with out checking too many options. I for one think its great deal, I recently drove the Avalon that they referenced in the comparison and it seems like some really cheap materials were used, it just doesn't have that upscale feel, hopefully the new Maxima will. I know most of you have had Nissan's before, unitl my wife picked up her new Nissan Rogue I would never have given Nissan a look. We have been very impressed by the quaility of that car, and love the CVT. Most reviews coming in have been very positve.

 

AubreySteve - Welcome to the Org.

The Rogue is a nice option for those who need the utility of an SUV, and can do with a fairly compact one. The Rogue got one MPG better than the Maxima in Consumer Reports testing. CU said some nice things about the Rogue.

As for the '09 Maxima, many dealers are stubborn about coming very far off the MSRP the first few months a new generation is out. But after three or four months, one can begin negotiating near invoice.

BUT:

Despite the naysaying of our administration, and the quibbling over technicalities, there is a recession underway across Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi, and I suspect other areas as well. Homes we have been looking at for several years (homes just aren't selling in most areas of the deep south) are dropping drastically in price. One home we really like in Demopolis AL has gone from $589,000 (assessed value at the time) at Thanksgiving 2006 to $427,000 this spring. That is over a $160,000 drop in price for a large and very beautiful brick home on an exquisitrly landscaped ten acres at the end of a culdesac on a high bluff overlooking the Tombigbee River. I know the seller must be heartbroken.

In view of the really tough economic times, I have a suspicion Nissan dealers will be dropping down from MSRP on vehicles faster than ever before by August. This could be a very good year to get a very good deal on a new generation Maxima. I know I will be hanging out at my dealers.

 

The only thing holding me back from looking at the 09 Maxima at the end of my M35x lease this March, is that damned CVT. In that Edmunds.com video where he accelerated at WOT, it seemed odd to have the engine slowly rev up, then Max out at redline, holding it until the tester let off on the gas.

To me, that sort of kills the thrill of accelerating at WOT if you can't hear the engine and tranny performing in a sporty manner.

 

Youtube copy of the maxima presentation
to media I believe


Intro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSFToNPbVck

Presentation Long 28mins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3coqWYFr_M

Question & Answers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiohYXTSWK0

Delete this if it is a repost

 

Dont bother watching the first intro vid. Boring stuff I should not of posted it.

 

Long, but interesting presentation.

I was not aware stock M45 parts are used on the front suspension of the '09 Maxima.

I was sort of aware the 'sport' version of the '09 uses thicker stabiilizer bars.

Those here still delusional about the Alti having 'almost the same engine' should be aware the intake manifold, combustion chambers and exhaust system have been completely redesigned for the '09 Maxima, and bear no resemblance to those on the 6th gen Maxima or the Alti.

In this presentation, it was brought out that the previous statement that there would be a 15% reduction in power resulting from using regular fuel in the '09 was an exaggeration; a more accurate estimation would be between 5% and 10%. I may have to check this out myself when I get my '09.

It was also interesting that testing shows that experienced drivers shifting with a manual tranny cannot accellerate as well as a driver using Nissan's new CVT. This new CVT is Nissan's sixth redesign, and easily their best yet. It is my opinion that, based on the options available with the new CVT, those refusing to consider the Maxima because of no manual are either basing that decision on emotion or misinformation. I can understand the emotional attachment of shifting for oneself, old-style. But the CVT is actually the better performer. Having said that, I still wish a six speed manual option was available just to accomodate those not interested in maximum accelleration and/or not ready to move to the CVT.

Another item I had not heard before: All versions of the '09 Maxima come with all-weather tires. But those opting for the 'Sport' version can order their Maxima with summer performance tires if they wish. The Nissan rep said the summer tires will make a very noticable difference, giving clearly better handling, quicker stopping, etc; much more sporty.

Thanks for the references, maxger.

 

Lightonthehill: Nissan always boasts about their CVT. But the end result is always poor. It's terrible in the Murano, and it's awful in the Altima 3.5. Look at acceleration videos of an Altima 3.5 with a 6spd, and an Altima 3.5 with a CVT and it'll take you back to the hay-day when slushboxes were much slower than their manual counterparts.

CVT lose all momentum after 70MPH, and I never understood why. The Alti 3.5 CVT barely crosses the quarter in 15-seconds. The 6spd is capable of very low 14s. Like I said, the acceleration videos are proof enough -- the 0-60 difference between both cars is enormous. With that said, I simply don't buy Nissan's CVT hyperbole anymore -- it's still a bullsh*t transmission.

 

And you believe that???

Let me make it short and sweet. Someone in the presentation asked, "How fast from 0-60?" and the guy studders and says, "We don't do that kind of testing."

That should tell you something.

 

And a couple more BS comments the presenter made:

"They worked hard to squeeze out another 35hp". BULLCRAP, the G35 has 306. Furthermore the G35 runs the 1/4 in 13.8. So you tellin me the G35 is about 7 tenths quicker with only 16 more HP???

And that talk about the CVT being able to shift quicker than a person with a manual is misleading to imply the car is in fact quicker and it's not

 

Interesting that you say that light. I just read Edmunds' test of the Hyundai Genesis, and they state that the V8 is good for 375HP on premium vs 368HP on regular, and 333/324 lb-ft of torque on premium/regular.

 

gizzsdad - Interesting that the Genesis only loses around 2% power (from 375HP to 368) when switched from premium to regular, but the Maxima loses from 5% to 10% (that would be from 290HP to somewhere between 260 and 275HP) if the presenter is to be believed.

I'm not sure I believe the presenter. We know the MPG doesn't change between premium and regular, and we know that the premium will offer an edge in an all-out accelleration, and will probably keep the engine a little cleaner, but I have a hard time believing the Maxima would have a drop of more than around 10HP by switching to regular.

----------------

As to those CVT doubters, yes, the CVT began life as a primitive parody of a transmission. And yes, the ones in the Murano and Altima are well below perfect. Compared to the reasonably perfected manual, the CVT is still in an advanced developmental stage. I personally feel it has strides left to make at speeds above 70MPH.

BUT

The laws of physics make it abundantly clear that, once it is reasonably perfected, a tranny that never has to shift will be more effective and more efficient than one that has to shift.

Nobody is suggesting that a CVT is 'more fun to drive' or 'more macho' or 'more in keeping with the age-old image of a sports car' than a manual. The CVT will prevail only because, once perfected in both hardware and software, it will give better accelleration and better fuel efficiency than any tranny that shifts. Like it or not, fuel economy IS going to drive tranny decisions in the forseeable future.

It may well be that Nissan is trying too hard to make the CVT universal before its time. I won't argue that point. I am one who is disappointed that a manual option is not offered on the '09. But I see both sides of the issue, understand the expenses involved to Nissan (certification, stocking, etc), and also understand the desires of manual fans. It is a tough situation.

But I have to consider the reports we are getting from those testing the '09, and it is fairly clear most testers are finding Nissan's newest CVT is better than the one in the '08 (and in the Alti and Murano). I personally look forward to playing with this latest CVT and comparing it with the manuals and autos I have driven for the past fifty-nine years.

I try to se this from a positive point of view: we are the 'early Christians' of the tranny of the future, and although sometimes it isn't any fun, and some of us are unhappy with the journey, Nissan is thrusting us onto the cutting edge of 'progress'.

 

I find it strange that nissan offers a 6speed in the lower priced altima line and higher priced G35 sedan line but not in the maxima which is in the middle. G35 is heavier and more luxury oriented and still comes with a proper manual, cvt is not offered on any of the infiniti sedans, to add insult nissan just developed a 7-speed auto tranny, obviously they felt cvt is not the wave of the future.

Also, lets see how many altimas sold with manny and how many G35 sedans, see if it makes more sense to offer manuals in those cars?

 

My advice to you guys is Drive the new maxima. I have only own manual transmission cars in the past 7 years and I was impressed by the CVT in the new maxima. Its not perfect but its pretty darn good. In ds modes it snaps off some really quick "shifts" from the preset ratios.

 

Motor trend has posted part 2 of it's G8 Vs. Maxima comparison and it didn't go to well for the Max, as we know from the article.

http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtes...t_2/index.html

 

drakutis - That Motor Trend test was undoubtedly one of the most slanted, predetermined jokes of a test I have seen in fifty-nine years of driving. The tester is a total idiot.

The only think these two cars really have in common is price. The G8 is BIG V8 engined, rough-edged powerhouse with an austere interior that, in spite of the tester's bias, sucks more gas than the Maxima.

The Maxima he tested was NOT THE 2009 MAXIMA SPORTS SEDAN. It was the plain version that should be tested against the Avalon. The test car had NEITHER the sports OR premium packages. Although it would still have been meaningless, the only possible way these two particular cars can be fairly compared in slalom, handling, braking, etc, is with the SPORTS version of the Maxima, with the 19" wheels and tires, thicker stabilizer bars, and optional summer performance tires.

This was such a rigged and meaningless test I am ASHAMED of the dishonesty of Motor Trend. This was an article I would expect to see in a supermarket scandal rag.

Shame, shame shame to Motor Trend. After this sick excuse for a 'test', I have lost all respect for that most biased rag.

 

They could have used the V6 version of the G8, that'd be more fitting.

 

Price vs. Price it was a fair comparison. The sport package wouldn't have helped the accelleration or the braking. And big brawny V8+RWD doesn't always beat out V6s. Most people get the point that the G8 is more of a driving enthusiats' car and the Maxima is a "cult following" car.

I do like the looks of the Max over the G8 however.

I just realize from past experience that the newness of the 09 Max will wear off and you're stuck with an average performing sedan with very little options in terms of aftermarket parts.

 

AllBlackMax - Yes, price-for-price is the ONLY thing these two cars have in common. FWD vs RWD. V8 vs V6. Polished and refined passenger car vs rough and austere power car. Even if the Maxima did not exist, I certainly would have absolutely ZERO interest in ANY Pontiac, especially this rough hog that gets less miles per gallon than the Maxima, and has absolutely NONE of the refinements (heated steering wheel, air conditioned driver's seat, etc, etc.).

I must disagree vehemently that the sports package (thicker stabilizer bars, larger wheels, tires, etc) with the optional lower profile summer performance tires would not have made a measurable difference in the slalom as well as the braking (wider tire with summer performance tread tread means more grip on the road). Even then, as 'made in china' said, the fair comparison would have been with the V6 version of the Pontiac.

As to the 'newness wearing off' with Maximas, I have owned nothing but Maximas since Oct 1984, and I never had a Maxima that was not an eye-catcher right up to the day I let it go. I am still getting really nice comments about my '04. I sometimes see my first (1985) Maxima around town, and it still looks sharp. By contrast, this G8 styling is not at all eye-catching for me. It reminds me of something out of Detroit. Something very forgettable. Something designed to be passe quickly, so you will be back to buy something newer very soon.

I am having great difficulty understanding any connection between these two cars other than price. Why not test the Maxima against the Mini-Cooper Clubman? They each have four seats and are about same price.

 

Here is another one:

http://searchchicago.suntimes.com/au...maxima.article

 

I think, at least from a marketing perspective (which we know, that's what they're doing), it makes sense.

The G35 should be out of the equation as it's marketed as a luxury brand. That leaves us with comparing the Altima and the Maxima... for now.

The Altima offers a 6-spd because it's Nissan's bread and butter. They sell the same unit on both 4 and 6 cylinder variant. From a cost/expense perspective, this makes perfect sense as they can offer numerous options to cater buyers who fall into the category of those looking for a "people's car", without spending too much on recertification, testing, fabrication and what not.

The Maxima, on the other hand, is meant to serve a very specific (and rather narrow) market--which was narrowed further by the lack of a manual offering. Production figures between the two models should tell you just that.

They are also marketing the Maxima to compete more with the flagship sedans of other makes, specifically those of their two competitors - Honda and Toyota (moreso with Toyota, the Avalon, as Honda doesn't really have a flagship ATM).

Now, if we factor the G35 back in. To the eyes of the mass population, an Infiniti is a luxury brand. Not a "for the masses" Nissan. So once they consider the G35, they're not going to look at Nissan.

Infiniti, does not offer a CVT for a variety of reasons. Several of which are:
- Infiniti has always gone after BMW in terms of market/enthusiast share, a CVT would just kill that goal. (This was actually Nissan's original claim before the Infiniti line was introduced, and before Nissan eventually eroded their original goals for the Nissan line-up).
- The CVT transmission was not developed for a RWD layout, which is what the Infiniti line-up is composed of.
- Other luxury car makers are touting 6, 7 and even 8 speed automatics. Infiniti felt the pressure of that and had to get out of the 5-spd auto offerings, if not merely to compete and justify charging a premium for it.

To sum it all up, Nissan/Infiniti is merely addressing what the mass population is asking for. Although we all think that the Maxima enthusiast base is huge, it really isn't. The lack of good, solid, reliable aftermarket tuners and parts suppliers is a good indication of that. Nobody wants to cater to our niche, at least not from a long-term business perspective.

Then again, that might all change. Nissan's spreadsheets are mostly black these days, so they might still do something that'll please those that kept the Maxima heritage alive in the first place.

 

Interesting...

 

That comparo is total B.S. I mean if you are going to compare cars for just price you could have another 15 cars in the line up. Now it seems to me like they compared 2 cars in the same price range but them only talked about the engine, braking, tires. There was no talk about the interior, looks, quality of build. Im sorry but like I always say I need a car that when I get out of bed I dont mind looking at and driving. I dont think I would be very happy driving that gas guzzler pontiac. Everyone is going to have their opinions and if you are looking for the most hp for your money and that is all you care about then the G8 is for you. I want a car that has all the toys inside, all the confort, and the exterior looks for me the Maxima seems to be it.

 

If anything, it could also have stemmed from the idea that in the past, Maxima's and Grand Prix's were compared to each other. The G8 replaces the Grand Prix.

 

Guys complaining about the the G8 vs. Maxima comparo aren't thinking like a customer would. Customers don't say to themselves "oh, I can't cross shop for a G8, it's a V8 and RWD, that's just wrong of me to do."

They're going to say to themselves "Oh, wow...the G8 costs the same, but performs better. On the other hand the Maxima has a better interior and options. Decisions, decisions."

 

LOL. You guys crack me up. The Maxima is not the best performance sedan on the road anymore. Sure it looks pretty, and has a ton of available options, but being a drivers car, it's not. That's the reason I sold my 05.

The G8 puts out 361hp and 385lb-ft of torque for 2mpg less and is called a gas hog?

 

I know when I read the review of the G8 GT, Motor trend was saying how the center console looked like something from an 80's video game display screen and it had a very bad glare on it. the liked the outside styling, except for the tail and the hood scoops(are they functional?). Where is the NAV system. IF I'm spending 30g or more I should have a NAV system.

Now on the video, dude mentions that it has a very handsome interior.

Which is it Motor Trend?

 

Wow! To compare what the very impressed testers for the Chicago Sun-Times wrote with what the POS mess the Road & Track clown turned out would make one wonder if they were testing the same car.

In reality, they weren't. The Chicago testers had a Maxima with 19" wheels and tires, while the R & T clown (who made his RWD bias crystal clear from the first second) did not. And all the R & T guy tested was accelleration and handling (and using the Maxima without the sports package). There are a thousand other considerations in buying a car, and the Maxima bests the G8 in most of them.

------------

NYPD-Arnold - Yes, there may be a few younger folks - or folks whose primary concern is pure power/elapsed time - comparing the Maxima and the G8. But the average car buyer would not be comparing a Maxima to a Pontiac. If I were cross-shopping the Maxima, I can easily think of a dozen cars I might compare it with, and I can assure you I would never be thinking of the V8 G8, which is the opposite of the Maxima in almost every way. Believe me, these two cars are TRULY 'apples and oranges'.

 

I like the G8 a lot. I actually would not mind owning one. But seriously, I would have to be in the "gotta have RWD big torquey V8" mindset if I was buying a car. And in that case, I would not look at ANY FWD car against the G8. Heck, the G8 is leaps and bounds ahead of the Chrysler sedans too, they don't even make it into the radar. But for an all-around luxo car with some sportiness too it, the Max would be compared against other fine FWD cars, if I cross-shopped the Max and G8 GT, I would have to consider myself too confused and I don't KNOW what I REALLY want.

 

LOL, at those thinking this is a fair comparo. Yes the price comparison is a good debate. But if I am cross shopping a vehicle I am going to shop cars in the same price range with the same features & options. If you just want to compare 30K cars then you will need a phone book worth of data and comparisons. The reason most of us are saying its not a fair comparison is because you take 2 cars in the same price range and compare power. When 1 car is a piece of plastic with a very powerful engine, the Maxima is a complete car.

Why dont we then take a 30K maxima and start comparing it to a 30K G8 but only talk about leather quality? Who is going to win? Its very easy to take 2 cars and compare them and make 1 come out ahead. Im sorry but I dont not think that most people looking to spend 30K on a car are only looking for HP. If you are looking for that then great but trust me if you were in that boat you would not even consider the Maxima in your equation.

All I am saying is that anyone looking to purchase the Maxima will not cross shop the G8 and vise versa.

 

i see nothing offered with the G8 that I would ever want in a vehicle

 

Everyone wants value for the money. But "value" is very subjective. There is nothing wrong in comparing a $30K Maxima with an equally priced G8 or any other sedan (or even CUV/SUV/minivan). Customers who define value by the hp/torque/handling will go with the G8 while customers who define value by a complete package of quality and luxury and willing to lose some hp/torque/handling will go with the Maxima. It seems to me that the MotorTrend tester had defined value in terms of hp/torque/handling in his testing.

 

some of you guys make G8 sound like a 68 ford torino, its not that bad.

 

BluFlame - Depending on what one is looking for, the V8 G8 could be exactly the answer. If I am interested in pure RWD V8 power and accelleration, elapsed time, etc, I choose the G8 over the Maxima. Fairly easy call.

But if I am interested in a refined and polished FWD sporty passenger car with good performance PLUS all the amenities, I choose between the Maxima and about a dozen other cars, and the G8 will not be even remotely close to being included in that dozen contenders, as it is exactly the opposite of the Maxima in so many ways.

It all depends on what one is looking for.

 

i'm not that blown away by the new maxima. sure its got a new face lift and what not but i don't think it comes that close to the 4DSC area. first, it has a CVT. i dont see how the paddle shifting would work with the CVT. never driven one, but it would be just weird imagining paddle shifting a CVT.... and, its a fatarse, it weighs 3641 lb compared to my 3001 lb gxe.

i'd rather keep investing in my 4rth gen....

 

light-- a sporty sedan is defined by the sporting character, meaning driving dynamics like handling, acceleration and braking, G8 is better in all of those categories. So whats maxima good at? luxury feel, quality, comfort, style, well I would buy an acura or lexus if I was looking for those qualities. and i'd never buy the G8 either.

To me, a perfect car would be a combination of G8 and maxima, built by lexus.

 

If I were to get the new Max I definitely wouldn't be modding it like I'm doing my 04. It would serve it's exact purpose and that's looking good while hauling the family.

 

BluFlame - Not only are the Acuras and Lexuses, when comparably equipped, generally more expensive than the Maxima, but I'm not enamoured with the styling or image of either.

Can you be sure the G8 is a better handling car than the version of the '09 Maxima Nissan is calling the return of the 4DSC? That is the 'Sports' version of the '09 Maxima equipped with standard larger stabilizer bars, 19" wheels with optional summer performance tires? That remains to be seen. The only comparison I have seen was with the base Maxima with base stabilizer bars, smaller wheels and all-season tires. That was as meaningless as a test can be. I'm not even sure the G8 will be a better braking vehicle when the Maxima is equipped with the tires I specified above.

MUCH more inportant than absolute stats is comparing LIKE vehicles. The V8 is a REAR DRIVE, LARGE ENGINE, V8, HIGH HORSEPOWER vehicle designed to excel in accelleration and handling and little else. By VERY SHARP CONTRAST, the '09 Maxima is a FRONT DRIVE MEDIUM SIZE V6 with a more moderate power output designed to be a POLISHED, NEAR-LUXURY, SPORTY sedan with LOTS OF AMENITIES. These two vehicles are simply NOT in the same class, NOT aimed at the same target audience, and would be cross-shopped by only a VERY SMALL percentage of buyers.

Put another way, I have owned nothing but Maximas for almost 24 years, know lots of Maxima drivers around where I live (I live very near a large Nissan dealer), and I can't think of a one of them that would even set foot on a Pontiac lot. Ever. Totally different image.

 

I seem to be saying this often but I agree with Light. The Maxima G8 comparison is pointless. Why not compare the Ford Econoline Wagan it is in the 30K range...wow what a winner look at all the sh** you can carry. Or a Buick...or the Hummer H3 or... you get the point. MT do a apples to apples comparison please.

 

I think bb700092 summed it up quite nicely. There are way too many variations on how vehicles should be compared (or can be compared by the Joe and Jane looking for one). It just so happens that Motor Trend wanted to specifically compare these two vehicles.

Not to mention, i'm sure they knew the backlash they'd be getting from it. When you're in the publishing business, feedback is always a good thing. It drives up traffic and revenue. They definitely made their money's worth on this article/test.

 

Not exactly the same, but the G35 is close. RWD w/ AWD as an option, manual trans available, less weight, more power and not much more money than a maxima.