nalc

iTrader: (11)

But, Light, we've heard several conflicting reports about the 3.0 diesel, but the majority of them agree that the CVT behind the current VQ35DE would be unable to withstand the 350-400 ft-lbs of torque produced by the Renault oilburner.

Some reports stated that a six-speed auto would be the only transmission choice, others a six-speed conventional manual.

Manuals seem to be more popular in diesels, to compensate for turbo lag and decreased horsepower. Will we see one in the Maxima dCi? I don't know.

lightonthehill

nalc - With the length of this thread, and the fact this subject is discussed in several threads here, this is all getting rather confused. I will try to simplify my position:

1 - I have been convinced for years that the CVT is the tranny of the future, and will prove to be more efficient than any shifting tranny.

2 - I feel this redesigned CVT is the best tranny for the '09 based on every logical factor I can see.

3 - This '09 Maxima is a near-luxury low-volume car that cannot economically be produced with both CVT and manual options.

4 - A diesel version of the 7th gen Maxima will be produced. It was scheduled for this spring until the auto market crashed. It will still come to market either later this year or next year.

5 - I have no idea what tranny this diesel Maxima may have. If Nissan has the slightest question about whether the redesigned CVT can handle the diesel torque, then the diesel should have a 6 speed auto. The low volume of this diesel Maxima would mean only one tranny would be available, and a manual would restrict the target audience to a very small number. There will be no manual.

But these are only my views. Every poster here will have a slightly different view.

Mick7

Nissan needed a "hook" to promote the new Maxima to the public and attempted to use the 4DSC approach. The negative points made by professional car critics revolve around the Maxima being not quite a sports car as it was advertised.

Most were offended by the CVT because it didn't belong in a 4DSC and they are correct. There is very little fault found outside of the unrealistic expectations Nissan established with the sports car tag. When taken for what it is, a fast, comfortable, good handling, near luxury automobile...the Maxima is very good.

Want a sports car..go buy one, this is not ... and blame the company for misleading the public.

lightonthehill

Mick7. You are correct.

Although there are some very fine sports cars without a manual (the GT-R for instance), the public is not yet attuned to a sports car without a play-thing called a manual. If only Nissan had said the '4DSC' on this '09 stands for 'four door sporty car'.

dkmura

I think the label '4DSC' is an attempt to depict the new Maxima moving back towards its "sporty car" (as Light has depicted it) roots. Like the recently introduced 370Z, the new A36 is shorter, more manuverable and with significantly improved power. I'd rather not get too hung up on the the term "sports car" because that term has changed so radically over the years. Compared with what we used to consider a "sports car" in years past, there are plenty of sedans (Maxima included) that would blow their doors off today!

And while I'm comfortable with driving at 10/10ths, heel-and-toeing a four/five/six or seven speed tranny, this CVT works well in the current Maxima! Nissan has done a good job in exploring ALL available technology in available transmissions-from the CVT to the Syncro Rev match in the new Z to the dual clutch setup in the GT-R supercar. They've clearly thought long and hard about matching the right drivetrain to the audience and marketplace.

CT Maxima

I think the problem is that some people literally buy into the the name "4DSC." It's only a marketing ploy to make the buyer believe that the Maxima is a sporty 4 door sedan. It delivers on this promise quite well.

However, given its size and its broad range of driving situations, it cannot be as sporty as a 911 or a GTR.

Even the mighty G37 has some compromises.

lightonthehill

Well, another day in my new '09 Maxima! I could list dozens of thoughts, but the only one of consequence:

I do not plan on ever owning another vehicle with a shifting tranny. I don't care if a gold-plated eight speed automatic is available, I prefer the CVT. This CVT is firm, smooth, jerkfree, slipfree, and, when matched with this new 290 HP piston pusher, can take the '09 anywhere and everywhere briskly without breaking 2500 rpms. I find it usually cruises around 1500 rpms. I'm happy. Very happy.


p.s. - I did a slow figure eight on a cul-de-sac today with no backing up. That requires a small turning radius.

mr305

2010 Nissan Maxima diesel engine to based on new Renault V-6

Posted Sep 11th 2007 at 1:29PM by Sam Abuelsamid
Filed under: Biodiesel, Diesel, Nissan, Renault

mls277

I love the CVT as well.

NCSUpilot

I was just on a flight with an engineer at Nissan that works on engine design. He said the diesel will be postponed.

lightonthehill

North Carolina State University pilot - Thanks a lot for this info. We have sort of been 'up in the air' (no pun intended) on this board about whether the diesel would be postponed. In view of the current auto depression, I certainly understand Nissan's decision to hold off.

Maybe things will recover enough that the diesel can be part of the 'half gen' intro in about 15 to 18 months. This will have the added advantage of giving Nissan more time to make sure this diesel Maxima release is smooth and problem-free.

Thanks again for the info.

TBA

Has anyone heard about changes to the 2010 Maxima? Like options, packages, prices? I'm not expecting anything major.

I'm considering placing an order so I can get the apparently rare color / configuration I want. The dealer advised me that an order placed now would be delivered as a 2010 model, so I'm wondering about changes.

nalc

iTrader: (11)

Most likeily nothing major... judging from past Maxima generations, they don't do much the first year.

richmusch

When are the 2010's slated for production and to start hitting showrooms? I am on the fence until at least July since I am purchasing a house, but deals on 09's will maybe get a little better when the 2010's start hitting the pavement.

-Rich

TBA

Not sure on the exact date, but 2010 models should start production soon. My dealer said that orders are placed on the 5th of the month, and are delivered 3 months later. He also said if I place an order now, it would arrive as a 2010 model. So, that means the change over is about to happen.

boone

iTrader: (1)

I'm betting on mid-August for the 2010 models.

lightonthehill

Chances are, you will have to look at the window sticker to identify a Maxima as a 2010, because Nissan seldom makes any significant changes the second year of a new generation. Production of the 2010 will probably begin in mid-to-late July, and the cars will probably not begin reaching dealers until August.

Nightshifter

I heard there will be Maxima Type-R Edition
It will have the GT-R Twin Turbo Engine + 6 speed Manual, RWD

Mreim769

What really??? Where did you hear that?

Bunkei

I would only expect minor updates; additional features, shuffling of the trims, stuff like that.

The styling of the new Max has grown on me, but I think it's a step back from the 6th gen styling. If it was my money, and I was in the market for a new near-luxury car, I'd give the Genesis a long look.

Before you call me crazy, it's no secret that Hyundai has made great strides in the last few years. I'm also a member on the Genesis forums, and the majority of people are very happy with their cars. There are bugs here and there, but no mention of engines are transmissions failing, at least not yet.

Even with the afterthought grill, I'd prefer its style and value over the current Maxima.

lightonthehill

I agree Hyundai has made tremendous strides since my son threatened to take his '87 Excel piece of junk and stuff it up the Hyundai CEO's fanny. Hyundai (along with its fellow South Korean compatriot Kia) are now rather reliable, and cost-effective.

But I have read several reviews where the tester was not totally pleased with the Genesis, being especially unhappy with its 'nervous' ride, which made longer trips unpleasant. Although many folks say the '09 Maxima is not a true 'sports car', it is definitely more of a 'sports car' than the Genesis, which does not handle as well as the Maxima. Even bland old Consumer Reports says 'this isn't a sports sedan.' The Genesis is a rather plain-looking car; not something that would ever catch my eye. More importantly, the Genesis is not really a competitor of the Maxima, as it is available only with an automatic tranny (I much prefer the great new '09 Maxima CVT), and is RWD (I will never again own a RWD vehicle).


As for the 2010 Maxima, I don't think we will even see the trim shuffled. I don't think we will be able to tell the 2010 from the 2009 just by looking. But the 2011, that will be where we see some differences, including shuffling the trim. No diesel, but a certain shy poster here was talking to a Nissan manager who hinted an AWD Maxima might be arriving around that time. We will see.

lightonthehill

Nightshifter was kidding (note the winkie). He has a great sense of humor, although I'm sure he wouldn't complain if a miracle happened, and his statement came true.

Nightshifter

Yes, that would be my wish list car! Submit a signed statement from Maxima.org and maybe they'll make a few ? Imagine that car It would be the future version of the GNX (remember that Buick?).

Bunkei

Yes, there have been some complaints over the ride, which is supposedly addressed on the 2010 models. I really don't consider either the Genesis or a Maxima a 'sports' sedan. I think they're both competent, but not terribly involving.

As for the styling, I'm from the 'less is more' crowd. The Genesis and Maxima show the extreme opposites, but with near-luxury, I'd prefer 'bland' to err .. 'unique' as the Maxima's styling is. Just my preference. I don't need the car to make a fashion statement, just as long as it doesn't offend the senses (read: Acura TL).

There's also something else to consider: price. Last night, I went back on the Genesis forums, and see what people were paying for their cars. They are getting 4.6 V8 models w/premium & tech packages, brand new for under $40,000. That's a helluva a deal! You can't argue with 370+ hp, right?

By the way, the automatic the V8's use is not just any automatic--it's ZF. Yep, the same automatic that is raved about in the BMW, Jaguar, and Audi luxury sedans.

lightonthehill

[QUOTE=Bunkei;7054933]
I went back on the Genesis forums, and see what people were paying for their cars. They are getting 4.6 V8 models w/premium & tech packages, brand new for under $40,000. That's a helluva a deal! You can't argue with 370+ hp, right?



Yes, it seems almost ALL manufacturers are letting their larger, gas-gulping high HP vehicles (especially the 8 cylinder ones) go at way below MSRP. The reason for that is simple: folks aren't buying larger, gas-gulping high HP vehicles, especially the 8 cylinder ones.

But I have zero need for 370 HP. I would rather drive a Mini-Cooper or Beetle than go back to an 8 cylinder engine that would get BELOW 20 MPG in city driving, and do well to reach 25 MPG in highway driving. And don't be misled by the 26 MPG federal highway rating on the '09 Maxima; that is a lab test, and does not take the CVT into consideration. I am measuring 28 to 30 MPG on busy freeways, and expect to reach 32 (as several posters here are doing) on open level freeways.

But then a RWD 8 cylinder 370 HP vehicle has little connection to the definition of what the Maxima has always been about, anyway. And top-of-the-line loaded Maximas are now selling for $5K to $6K UNDER that great deal on the 8 cylinder Genesis. For my needs, the '09 Maxima is a FAR better buy for the money.

Like you, I have always avoided gimmick-type or strange styling on cars. I feel they are almost a desperate plea for folks to 'look at me.' But I love the styling of this '09 Maxima, and, other than maybe the tick at the bottom rear of the headlight assembly, find the styling conservative. The sides and rear are rather plain. The overall styling might even be described as 'bland', were it not for the headlights and the aggressive coke-bottle shape.

nalc

iTrader: (11)

Dude I heard the same thing. The Maxima type-R is going to have a VQ37VHR just like the G37, and it's going to be RWD with a 6 speed manual, and it's going to be a light two seater like 3100 lbs or so. It's gonna kick so much *** it's not even funny.

NiteCrawler

iTrader: (1)

All i got too say is if they put CVT into they supercar R35 then there wont be NOMORE 6sp maxima if it works in the R35 then its going to work for the 09 maxima4DSC+ nissan dont plan on going backwards...just my 0.2 cents..........big brother=little brother R35&Maxima

Bunkei

I only mentioned the V8 models because of the great deals I've seen on them. You are right, not everyone needs 370+ hp. However, the Genesis 3.8 version is a nice alternative to the Maxima. Fuel economy is a wash between the two (Maxima: 19/26 Genesis: 18/27). The Genesis and Maxima are about equal in terms of luxury options.

However, there are some here that DO like that extra dose of power, and willing to sacrifice fuel efficiency to get it. If that's the case, it's hard to argue against the Genesis 4.6 V8 considering the deals I've seen. Just make sure you wait for the '10 MY for the revised suspension.

lightonthehill

I still see these two cars as 'apples and oranges.'

I readily give you that the vehicle size and options are reasonably similar. But the size and options of the Maxima are similar to many upscale mid-size vehicles, most of which are quite different in several major ways from the Maxima.

The Genesis is a conservatively styled RWD vehicle available only with an automatic tranny, while the Maxima is a more aggressively styled FWD vehicle, available only with a CVT. For most drivers, those are major differences that put these cars in different groupings.

I realize there will be some drivers who are totally open to all possibilities and vehicle set-ups who might consider purchasing either of these vehicles, but I would guess most drivers of either of those two vehicles would be like me, and have little inclination to purchase the other; just too different in too many ways.

Worded another way, I am on record here on the ORG as one who swore 26 years ago to NEVER own another RWD vehicle, and who swore just a few months ago to NEVER own another shifting tranny.

Likewise, there are many drivers who have posted here that they will never consider a FWD vehicle, and/or never consider a CVT.

If we are looking at vehicles as more than just spirited transportation, then I feel the Genesis and Maxima, although both are excellent vehicles, are comparatively 'apples and oranges.'

Others here will, of course, see things differently.

BLACKNESS MONSTA

They already have that...its called a 370Z

Tippy Toes

iTrader: (6)

Diesel is the short term future, magnetic technology will be 2020-2030. Technology will flood the car market its whether or not a company has money to do it. The auto makers pretty much crunched aftermarket suppliers by taking their ideas and products and placed them stock in the car. Now its time for solar and magnetic technology to move the cars. (Video game like if you will) With all these people concerned with global warming any kind of exhaust will be obslete sooner then later. It's who wants to venture out and spend the big dough.

Tesla is a company going the right direction and TBH. I'm buying an AWD model S in 2011 for 50k over a 43k loaded maxima.

Bunkei

Not to the average buyer. I think the whole FWD vs RWD/CVT vs automatic thing is overblown. It's something that enthusiasts pay attention to more than the targeted demographics.

They may be mechanically different, but more often that not, it's the price and features that matters most to prospective buyers than which wheels are powering the vehicle or what kind of transmission it uses.

As to the first, I can certainly understand your point of view. RWD cars used to be a real challenge to drive in the winter, but I think it matters not so much now. Better traction/stability systems and tires have made it a lot more manageable.

They're not really apples to oranges for the targeted demographics. They both focus on near-luxury at a good price. Neither nameplate resonates 'luxury' or has the cache/reputation of such like Infiniti/BMW/Lexus/MB, but obviously the targeted demographics wouldn't care much about the badge, just value/features/price.

Your point of view IS apples to oranges ... but that's because it's coming from a car enthusiast (you), after all, the average buyer is not a member of an enthusiast forum. I think that it's highly probable that both cars will often be cross-shopped.

lightonthehill

In retrospect, I cannot deny that I am fairly **** about my car shopping, and probably cannot properly present the views of that huge morass of folks that 'would like a red car', or 'want a convertible' and aren't too concerned with the make, much less any technical data.

nalc

iTrader: (11)

Solar?

Let's do some math. Direct sunlight is about 1kW/m^2. An average car probably has about 10m^2 of top surface area once you add up the hood, roof, and trunk. That means a car covered in 100% efficient solar panels can have a total power output of 10kW. That's like 14 horsepower. That's before taking into consideration that current mass produced solar panels are under 30% efficient, 1kW/m^2 is the number on a sunny summer day, in clouds or rain or the winter it is much lower, and at night it's zero.

Solar power has potential, but only for building huge solar arrays in uninhabited areas. As a personal transportation energy source, it's completely useless.

And, I'm curious, exactly what sort of 'magnetic' power do you have in mind?

Bunkei

I just watched a CNET review of the Genesis. I did NOT know that you cannot rip music to the available HDD. That would be a dealbreaker for me. A REAL big oversight by Hyundai that would make me rethink of it being a nice alternative to the Maxima.

Nightshifter

And, I'm curious, exactly what sort of 'magnetic' power do you have in mind?[/quote]


How about Magnetic Confinement Fusion It converts mass to energy very efficiently, has no air pollution or contribution to global warming and the fuel supply is virtually limitless! Just strap a Tokamak to the back!
Oh watch out for the eletromagnetic plasma fluctuations producing flow eddies out of the magnetic bottle periphery Then again, we could just reinstate the Cold Fusion project, oh but that would be too easy and inexpensive...

nalc

iTrader: (11)

oh yeah dude I totally forgot. We just need some subatomic anti-neutrinos to undergo cryo-rotation with a flux array matrix! that reaction produces 1.21 jigawatts of electricity, plus kittens and rainbows.

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Interesting detailed article on Nissan's Hybrid Technology and the rumor that the 370Z might be one of the first launch vehicles.

http://www.370z.com/MagazineArticles...Z-in-2011.aspx

Why would one think the Maxima wouldn't be targeted for Hybrid duty?

Mreim769

I don't even understand why the Genesis vs Maxima argument has been brought up. a) It is a Hyundai, the worst car you can possibly buy (next to a kia) for reliability. Honestly, who has ever replied to "I own a Hyundai" with "Oh wow, thats cool" b) like light said it is apples and oranges. I could have bought a Dodge Ram 4X4 turbo diesel for pretty close to the same price as my Max. Does that mean I should be comparing the two as well?

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Well Hyundai is no longer a reliability nightmare it once was they have made huge strides in the last 3-4 years with NVH, quality, initial quality, reliability, etc. It's going to take several more years before the stereotyping dies down just exactly what the Japanese makes dealt with for many years. I can remember back in the day all of the Jap car insults, jokes, etc and now they have been the benchmark to obtain for several decades.

Here is an except from a 2006 JD Power Study:

Based on both design quality and production quality considerations, the study finds that automakers can vary widely in their performance on these two components. Brands with the fewest defects and malfunctions include BMW, Chrysler, Hyundai, Lexus, Porsche and Toyota. Brands with the fewest design problems include GMC, Hyundai, Jaguar, Lexus, Nissan and Porsche.

They haven't dropped since 2006 they are only getting better. Maybe you should stop by a showroom and look around it's no fluke and might I add they are practically the only manufacturer today selling more cars when compared a year ago as a whole than anyone in this market.