Nissan hopes to sell around 250,000 Altimas in a normal year, while it slots the flagship near-luxury Maxima to sell only around 70,000.

The problem with the 3.5 Altima for most folks is that, unless the viewer gets close behind the car and determines whether the little chrome thingie says '2.5' or '3.5', they generally won't be able to distinguish an optioned-out very capable and reliable $30K Altima from the base Altima your neighbor paid $17K for. That is a huge turnoff for many folks, who prefer their shiny new car at least be distinguishable to the average viewer from the hundreds of thousands of Altimas already on the road.

 

That observation was posted here many times when the '04 Maxima (6th gen) arrived. Other comments such as 'bloated whale', 'grocery cart', 'Sunday-go-to-church car', 'old folks car', 'no longer a Maxima', etc, etc, were posted here every day. But over 131,000 '04 Maximas were sold.

The '09 (7th gen) Maxima is generally attracting much better styling and performance reviews than the '04. Despite the recession, folks are buying this 7th gen. As long as Nissan keeps to lean, athletic styling and maintains good performance and reliability with the Maxima, it will have no problem whatsoever selling. The Maxima is the flagship. It is here to stay.

 

It's not that bad, it took about a day to get used to. After a day or so I was driving the car as smooth as an auto when I would just cruise around. When you wanna rip it, that light switch clutch engagement was great.

 

How good an auto manufacturer or any of its product is doing has very little to do with absolute sales figures. It has everything to do with the % of the investment that the product returns as take-home profit -- a number that only the auto manufacturer knows. For e.g., Nissan probably makes five times the profit by selling a $50k M as compared to a $20k Altima. So if the take-home profit by selling a $20k Altima is $500, i.e. 2.5% while that for $50k M is $2500, i.e. 5%, Nissan is better off continuing the M as compared to the Altima. [Note this was a mere example and not real figures.]

However, relative sales figures for the same vehicle during the same time (modulo certain factors) is much more meaningful as it reveals the progress or decline of the product over time and reflects on the auto manufacturer's business. That is why we always see statements like -- "Nissan sold 2% more Altimas during the month of March 2010 as compared to March 2009. This number has been modified to take into account the increasing value of US dollar and that there were two less selling days in March this year."


Regarding the Maxima, I do not know what Nissan is trying with it. They market it as a family and sports-sedan but it is neither. We Americans are mostly large people and like our own space. A family sedan is expected to haul four adults comfortably. The current Maxima is smaller than the Altima in terms of interior passenger volume and rear legroom space. Many people refuse to buy the Altima and go for the Accord or Sonata for that particular reason. Clearly, they will never consider the Maxima. With regards to sports-sedan, a G37 fits the bill much better than a Maxima. Why can't Nissan build a sportier FWD alternative to the Avalon (and shun all that 4DSC marketing gimmick)? That is where the Accord seems to be heading.

Maximas will continue to sell well as long as consumers get $6-7k off MSRP. A $39k+ Maxima is selling for about $33k which is very close to the MSRP of a fully loaded V6 Altima, Accord, Camry. But the Maxima provides more features and is more upscale than any of them, so it is selling well at that price. However, if Nissan stops discounting so heavily, Maxima sales will fall drastically because it is simply not a car worth its MSRP unlike the G37. That is why the G37 is not discounted so heavily.


Regarding the Maxima vs. G37 debate, many of you seem to harbor myths. It might help to check the numbers in the Nissan/Infiniti websites before posting comments like

The Maxima has some optional features which the G37 doesn't (e.g. power rear sunshade) and vice versa (e.g. Intelligent Cruise Control with Preview Braking). No biggie there.

 

I'm not harboring any myths, and I did say the G37 dhad some features that the Maxima didn't but the fact is the Maxima comes with more available features then the G37 has over the Maxima! I did check the information before posting, so instead of trying to criticize someone because you don't like what they say, just accept that fact that the Maxima has advantages over the G in several areas and vice versa! The Maxima is longer and much wider than the G37 so even though in actual interior volume the G might be slightly bigger, the Maxima is greater in hip and shoulder room over the G which gives the car a much bigger feeling inside then the crampy feeling the narrow width of the G provides. The only dimension the G has a slight advantage over the Maxima is in headroom both front and rear, and unless your over 6 feet that is not going to matter in either car. The G and Maxima had almost identical legrooms both front and rear, with the G having 0.1 inch more than the Maxima. Is anybody really going to notice the 0.1 difference, absolutely not!

I've said on numerous occasions that I really like both vehicles and would not have any problems getting a G37, but they cater to two different crowds/driving styles and I just preferred the Maxima over the G37. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the G.

 

So after knowing all this, you came to the conclusion

Cool!

Also, I have no clue where you (and your supporters) came to the following conclusion from.

 

It came from the conclusion that my last three fill-ups in my Maxima yielded between 26-27mpg avgs with consistent 31-34 mpg on open highway/interstate! Also, it came from the fact that others on here have reported to me getting similar mpg!

There is no way in hell a G37 is getting that kind of fuel economy even at its best!

 

Your figures would be a bad choice given that the numbers indicated the altima sold 24K cars and the M sold 1440. Making less profit on a much higher sales number will win out any day over making more profit on far, far fewer cars. Even using your figures, that'd be $12M dealer profit compared to $3.6M on the M, again, using your numbers. That a case of where the 2.5% > 5%.

If you need further proof for volume value sales leadership, Walmart would be a prime example. How many higher price, lower volume stores disappear right after the lower price, higher volume store like Walmart appears?

 

You are again counting absolute numbers as opposed to % of investment. Yes, Nissan would make $12M profit from the Altima and only $3.6M on the M. But do you know how much Nissan invested on the Altima and how much on the M? To produce 24k Altimas, Nissan will have to run and maintain many more plants (this includes the employees working there) than the number of plants they need to run to produce 1440 Ms. There are many more costs over and above running plants, such as, subsidies to dealerships, warranty costs, etc. So Nissan's investment on the Altima is much much more than that on the M. One needs to calculate what % of those investments are $12M and $3.6M and then compare them. No doubt, Nissan (and every auto manufacturer) has a threshold of that % and if some vehicle does not reap profits above that threshold, the manufacturer might discontinue the vehicle, just like Nissan discontined the manual Maxima, Hyundai discontinued the V6 Sonata, etc.

WalMart is not a good example because it does not manufacture most of the products it sells, it is merely a retailer -- more comparable to the car dealerships, not to auto manufacturers. I will give you a more relevant example. Toyota sold 68,595 Camry/Solara YTD 2010 while Nissan sold only 59,483 Altimas during the same period even after Toyota's massive recalls. Very sad, isn't it? No, it is not because Nissan's Altima sales during YTD 2010 increased by 19.8% from YTD 2009 while Toyota's Camry/Solara sales increased by only 2.1% during the same time. If you calculate absolute profit, probably Toyota made more than Nissan since they sold about 9k units more but if you calculate the profits as % of investment, probably Nissan did better. The data for the above example is here: http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/pag...autosales.html

It is like comparing the absolute investment returns of Warren Buffett with that of a random guy. WB has billions to invest, of course he will make more. The random guy maybe is investing a few thousands, how can you compare his absolute returns with that of WB's? But you can compare their % returns and if the random guy can get better % returns, he is a better investor than WB. That is all I am trying to say.

 

Why

 

For someone who has a Maxima, you seem to have a real interest in defending the G37. Are you sure you didn't get the wrong car for yourself?

What do you mean why? Did you not just read the numbers I posted or are you being a smart ***? The G37 does not have a CVT and has a much higher output engine then the Maxima, not to mention the EPA numbers on the window sticker are higher on the Maxima then they are on the G37, at least here in NJ with AWD, and the G37 owners on edmunds do not report the numbers that myself and other Maxima owners have on here!

 

I like to judge any (including my) car honestly. If that makes my car a "wrong car" for me, so be it. If G37 (or any other car) is a better car, I am not feeling shy to admit that.

But you never answered why

 

I did

 

EPA numbers:
Maxima: 19/26 mpg
G37 RWD: 19/27 mpg
G37 AWD: 18/25 mpg
G37 Sport 6MT: 17/25 mpg

I do not see how one can say from these numbers that

I don't find any reason why the EPA should prefer the G37 over the Maxima, so I would trust their numbers over anybody else's.

 

No, I'm only going by what myself and actual owners of each cars are telling us that they are getting, so I can't make any educated statements, give me a break . I could give a rat butt what the epa says since most people are typically exceeding EPA ratings now a days, I know I have on my cars in the last 10 years.

Fuel economy has been proven with the CVT so there should be no reason to question that it gets better fuel economy over a conventional automatic transmission. The numbers people quote that they are getting are proof of what ACTUAL people are getting on the road!

 

Unlike the EPA, ACTUAL people do not drive two cars under exactly the same conditions, so what they are saying is by no means a scientific comparison. Period.

If you want to bank on what ACTUAL people are saying as opposed to EPA, my best wishes to you!

 

You live in a la la land buddy. If you go simply by EPA numbers then I feel very sorry for you. This is a Maxima forum, not a Infiniti love fest, I really think you got yourself the wrong car and you seem not to be alone. What was the problem, you couldn't afford the G37 ? Give it a rest. People have no reason to lie and I'm beginning to think you are person who sees conspiracy every where and are paranoid person at the core and just try to argue to argue, this wouldn't be the first time, and I've had enough. Do us all a favor and stop coming on to harass and make stinks over semantics and try to lock people in a circle of logic. I know what numbers I get on my car and what G37 people have reported and the Maxima gets better gas mileage, pure in simple.

If you don't think so, why don't you turn in your Maxima for a G37 and let us know how better the gas mileage is then the Maxima ! Enjoy the hunting and pecking 7spd automatic!

 

I do not live in la la land, I live in FL. But if you like to call FL the "la la land" and your Maxima the "right car", I have absolutely no problem. Do whatever makes you feel good about yourself and your purchase.

Just know that this a public forum and anyone is free to express his/her opinion respectfully whether you like it or not.

 

Exactly, this is the third time you've come on here and questioned a statement or information I put up implying that I'm being either deceptive or lying about it, just like the Maxima being in the Infiniti showroom. There is a big difference between criticizing someone because you disagree with them, which no one else has mind you, and implying they are a liar about the information they posted. You question me like a police interrogator and I don't deserve it. You don't seem to understand the difference.

The Maxima, and the majority of the Nissan line are getting incredible mpg with this CVT compared to their regular automatic competition, hence why the Altima's mpg was raised last year on the window, and I suspect the Maxima's will be in the next year or two as well, especially if they pair this sucker with a diesel!

If your not getting the kind of mpg I'm getting then I suggest you take your foot off the gas pedal a little bit more often because it is possible. If I can get this kind of mpg up here in NJ where the weather is always warmer then in Florida, wink wink, , you should be able to do even better!

The way you talk and defend the G37 seems to indicate that is the "right car" for you yet your in a Maxima. Seems you might have some regret about being in a Maxima and not a G37. Enjoy your Maxima, if you can its a wonderful ride, with great fuel economy when driven right!

 

I get around 12mpg in the city because idle more than I drive and I really could care less. I purchased this car based on looks and style. I unlike most people on this forum don't use it much because I got it as a toy. I have a 04 accord that gets 30-32mpg on the highway and it has 170k miles. The MPG's will always be based on actual user variables so for anyone to get exactly what I get in MPG's, I will have to be doing the driving.

 

:metalmax:...I see the maxima vs G37 bickering is still in full force.

 

You betcha! If I were you, I'd go back into ! lol

 

It has been a while since I have look at this thread and I took a peak at it since nothing else has seemed to be updated lately and what do I find..... You two at it again...

I don't like taking sides and I will make it a point not to since both of you are friends of mine on this forum. I really do respect both of you and pay close attention when either one has somthing to post. That being said just forget about the other member. Try not not comment or disclaime what the other one has said. You both obviously think on two different sides and that is somthing that makes this forum better, that everyone doesn't think the same. Just try not to dis-credit or call the other member a liar or get insulted when another questions what you have to say.

I hope maybe this helps and hope both of you keep reading and posting...

 

For all practical purposes maxima mpg= g37 mpg

As for cancelling some cars based on sales figures is not correct, certain cars hold a place in the lineup like the 370z is the only sports car, and M is the only flagship in the infiniti and G is the sales leader for the whole infiniti line, so they will never go away.

Look what happened to infiniti's Q flagship, M line came from behind and took its place.
I always said this, biggest threat to maxima is the altima not G37.

 

By the way...I don't think people that buy the G37 coupe worry about their gas mileage as much as you guys think they do.....I think if they were that worried about gas mileage...they would have gotten a Prius.

 

Thanks Flip for playing police officer and maintaining the peace!! Your the best!

 

Exactly, I did not get my FX35 because I thought it was going to be fuel efficient, and even with premium gas, it's been far from it, I got it for other reasons. When one thinks of fuel efficiency, one doesn't think Infiniti but that might change with the M hybrid next year. If I am thinking of fuel efficiency, the Maxima and Altima come to mind compared to the G. Now I live in a rural area so the Maxima for me is fuel efficient. If I was living in NYC for instance, I would not have the Maxima on my radar because I know a car like that, would not get good fuel economy being in the city all the time, and probably would look at a Altima I4 or something else with a I4.

 

I think where smartie is getting his 'Maxima edges the G37 in fuel economy' position is based on the experiences posters here (me included) are having with this 7th gen. I have owned nothing but Maximas for 26 years, and never before consistently reached/passed 30 MPG on long trips (which the 7th gen can do).

I can easily see how this controversy arose:

The government runs tests and has formulas that they use to set city and highway MPGs for vehicles. These tests and formulas include gear ratios used in manual and automatic trannies, BUT THE CVT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. The government system has not yet been adjsted to properly handle the CVT for highway driving.

As a result, folks are actually getting better MPG results with the Maxima than with the G37. This is not only posters here on the ORG, but also testing services such as Consumer Reports, which uses essentially the same tests on all cars, and actually keeps track of every mile driven and every drop of gas used. CU shows the Maxima with a higher overall MPG than the G37.

And that is where smartie is coming from.


Going back to square one, it blows my mind that anyone bothers to compare the G37 and the Maxima; in many ways, those two vehicles go in totally different directions, and are intended for two totally different type drivers. In my mind, the Maxima is clearly the best car for the audience it is aimed at, while the G37 may well be the best for the audience it is aimed at. But MOST drivers will belong to one or the other of those audiences; not both.

Any argument between these two vehicles is not an argument based on fact; it is an argument based on driver needs, wants and preferences. Which means it is a fantasy argument.

 

seeeeeveeeeeteeeeeeeeeeeee

 

Exactly, I was only going by what you, others, and myself have reported on here for fuel economy after having the Maxima for as long as we have. I also belong to the edmunds forum where there is a G37 mpg discussion and the best I've seen people with the G37 get on with majority of highway travel is 22-23mpg avgs with mid to high 20's on open highway/interstate travels.

Now, don't get me wrong, those numbers are impressive for a vehicle that has 328hp and 269 lbs-ft of torque but I have yet to read on there or any Infiniti forum, the numbers that us 7th Gen Maxima owners have been getting on open-road travel with the FWD/CVT set-up. But I would expect the Maxima to get better gas mileage then a G37 because of the inherent nature a CVT and FWD set-up gives you over a regular automatic and RWD set-up.

But light is right that these two vehicles really should not be compared since they are entirely different from each other, cater to two different purposes and driving crowds. Just remember though, this whole G37 vs Maxima debate was started by the original OP comments on the article from MT stated basically that they like the Maxima but for PRICE reasons, the Maxima is basically useless and people should just be in a semi-loaded G37 for the same price! That whole statement by MT is just a big bunch of because they fail to understand that the Maxima and G37 are very different animals and the Maxima has many advantages to it that they failed to mention!

 

and they hated the CVT.

No. Actually they should be compared.

They are being compared because they are so damn close in price(even overlapping depends on the features you get), # of doors, and one is a luxury vehicle while the other is just a sedan both in reality from the same automaker(withaatramissionthatishighlydislikedbyma nyreviewers).

It doesn't matter that it may be 'just as good' as an Infiniti but it's still no luxury car. period. it never will be no matter what you keep telling yourself. it will depreciate faster and still never have the title of driving a luxury vehicle just a sedan commuter car.

i'd just like to point out a few things people were using to argue the maxima was better which were wrong:
interior cabin space g37 wins
mpg g37 wins
price per HP g37 wins

 

...... and if you bend over there is a G37 tattoo on your left butt cheek! We know you have a secret love for the Infiniti, now move on!

 

We are just going to have to have a gentleman's disagrement on this.

To say vehicles should be compared because they are comparable in price overlooks MANY FAR MORE IMPORTANT facts which make these OPPOSITE type vehicles appealing to DIFFERENT type drivers.

I will say once more that comparing a FWD CVT driven, agressively-styled near-luxury family sedan that has a sporty bent with a RWD auto/manual driven, conservatively-styled sports sedan is apples-to-oranges, persimmons-to-peanuts and any other mis-application of vehicle comparison we can name.

Each of the major differences between the G37 and Maxima happen to be one of several specific reasons why the G37 would NEVER appear on MY shopping list. Just as the CVT and FWD are reasons many hard-core drivers, especially those still living in the RWD/manual era, would NEVER favor the Maxima. In other words, for MOST folks, this is a TOTALLY MEANINGLESS COMPARISON.


As for interior space, I did sit in a G37, and, for whatever reason, it was more cramped side-to-side than the Maxima. I remember the same feeling when comparing the earlier G35 with my '04 Maxima.

As for MPG, government testing, not updated for the CVT, shows an edge to the G37, while field testing services like CU (and drivers) are finding the Maxima does better, especially on the freeway. This is REALITY, not arguable 'maybes.'

MT/AT RWD fans will, of course, rightfully feel the G37 is the better car, and for those drivers, the G37 IS the better car. BUT, as shown by sales totals, drivers (especially family-oriented ones) who have moved into the third millenium, and who look at ALL aspects of a vehicle, are preferring the Maxima. And that is where the 'rubber meets the road', and gives credible evidence that, for MOST drivers, THE MAXIMA IS THE BETTER CAR.

Although I still insist these are two totally different vehicles aimed at different drivers, and comparing them is a fantasy comparison.

 

I never once said that the Maxima was a luxury sedan so there is a great example of you putting words in my mouth.

Second of all, the interior cabin space in the G37 wins because of the greater headroom that it has over the Maxima and like I said, unless your over 6 ft tall, your not going to notice a difference in headroom between the two cars; both have almost identical legrooms both front and rear, with the G being 0.1 inches more, which means absolutely nothing since no one will notice it, but the more important feature the Maxima has it is greater in hip and shoulder room over the G37 which makes the car feel bigger and roomier because it has over 3 inches more in width then the G!

Bull **** the G37 mpg is better than the Maxima. You give me a credible source or link of G37 drivers, ACTUAL REAL LIFE OWNERS, who are getting 26-28mpg avgs and 31-34 mpg on open highway/interstate and I'll retract me statement!

I really have absolutely no idea why you even got a Maxima! It really boggles the mind. If your going to keep coming on talking about how lousy the car is why don't you get off the forum and go trade it in on a Infiniti so you can appease your insecurities!

 

Consider that:

The shape of the interior volume can allow a smaller number of cubic feet to be more usefully arranged than a slightly larger volume of less useable shape. This is subject to individual preference, with some drivers preferring to give up a little measured headroom in exchange for a couple inches more hip- and shoulder room. For others, the opposite is true. Bottom line and for essentially similar volumes, this ends up being a compromise one way or another, as it isn't something that has a universally true solution.

MPG by EPA measurements is a wash. Arguing about 1 mpg either way is an utter waste of time. Nobody drives exactly like the EPA drive cycles anyway.

If price per HP was anywhere near the top of anybody's priority list, they probably wouldn't buy either of these cars. As far as any sane driving is concerned, $/ft-lb of mean useable torque would be a far more useful criterion. Just for grins, how would you expect a quickie comparison of 261 ft-lbs @4400 rpm against 270 ft-lbs @ 5200 to shape up?



(I see about 2.5% more peak torque at a higher, slightly harder-to-use rpm favoring the Infiniti . . . . . pushing about 2.8% more weight . . .)


Guess I'm typing really slow today.

Norm

 

All this bickering over 2 Nissan products that are good in there own rights crazy..... No matter how much you try to stuff your opinion down peoples throats nothing going to change, its an opinion........Both are good products. Now as far as gas mileage goes I am getting just as good of mileage in my 7 spd auto Z as you guys are getting in your CVT Maxima's so I can sorta vouge for the mileage the 3.7 gets if you dont beat on it. Best was about 30, avg mid to low 20's as I do not go around flooring it at every light!

 

That is some pretty nice mpg your getting on your Z there Monte! I'm glad you like it. That is one sweet little sports car!

 

fwiw if a cvt tranny really gave a good margin over the clutch based 'normal' type of auto tranny automakers would be flocking to it in droves. being able to say your car has 3+ mpg because of a simple tranny would make a HUGE difference in marketing and sales.

For some reason all the 7th genners rave about how great it is and their mpg are a result of it.

compare:
EPA numbers:
Maxima: 19/26 mpg
G37 RWD: 19/27 mpg
G37 AWD: 18/25 mpg
G37 Sport 6MT: 17/25 mpg

you have 1mpg over an awd heavier sedan with a 'normal' auto tranny. that 1mpg is from the awd nothing else. please stop using cvt and mileage in the same sentence. the only reason to mention it is in terms of performance and longevity. Currently a clutch based auto tranny still gives better performance then a CVT any day of the week.



By putting in a CVT tranny nissan basically ended any and ALL performance mods for this gen, which of course they don't care about as only 1% of maxima buyers mod their cars. However if you are on these forums it's generally to mod your car which the largest part is making it go faster. cosmetic mods are alot closer to the ricer world which most maxima owners try and get away from. I'd love to know how the CVT tranny handles 400whp almost a 2x leap from stock.

oh and for some reason people keep talking to me about i shouldn't own a maxima i should own a g37. i'm argueing facts get over it you guys sound more like fanboys then anything. I drive a 5.5 6mt the last 'good' maxima imo.

My next car will be a g37 6mt. For the money it's a better investment, if you look at it solely as an investment. Better resale value best 'bang for your buck' and gives me what I want: control of the car. Try and argue how the maxima will be a better investment using $ figures alone. please.

anyone with a 7th gen who says they drive a 4DSC should be ashamed. I own a 4DSC it's called a 3rd gen 5mt LSD with 190hp.

 

:metalmax: