lightonthehill

The CVT for the new Altima is completely redesigned, is targeted at engines with around 3.5 litre displacement, and is clearly better off the line than the CVT in the previous Altima and the current Maxima. Nissan intends that, with minor programming tweaks, this will be the tranny for the 8th gen Maxima.

But, because there have been a few unexpected problems with this newest CVT, Nissan has delayed the release of the 8th gen Maxima.

There was a time when manual trannys were more fun to drive, and, in less-populated parts of the country, they still are. But the growing traffic gridlock in many parts of the country, combined with the fact CVTs are faster in accelleration and better in fuel economy than manuals and automatics, means we will be seeing more and more CVTs.

We will eventually reach a point where manuals on passenger sedans will be very difficult to find. Rapidly rising federal fuel efficiency requirements are making that happen even faster than some expected.

I still remember the fun of manuals. But that fun evaportated when traffic around me reached the point I was shifting over 800 times just to go 25 miles to get to work each morning, seldom exceeding 25 MPH, and with few opportunities to do more than very gently nudge the gas pedal.

Now if I lived in Montana or Wyoming or Western Texas or the Great Plains . . .

ainawi

i Raced with New Altima, & he left me behind like a V12 racing with Me really i was so annoyed. i have maxima 2012

lightonthehill

That is exactly what I would expect. The CVT we have had on the 7th gen Maxima for six years is slow off the line. Many here feel like that was Nissan's way of protecting their new (at the time) CVT until they could determine its reliability.

But the CVT in the latest Altima is a total redesign that eliminates that initial lag off the line that has annoyed many of us 7th gen Maxima owners. This new Altima CVT (with a tad of tweaking) is the one Nissan intends to use in the 8th gen Maxima. But several CVT failures in the new Altima have caused Nissan to hold off on the 8th gen Maxima until those Altima CVT issues are resolved.

From around 30 MPH upward, the 7th gen Maxima CVT will beat all Altimas older than this lastest release, and stay with the latest Altima. But by 30 MPH, the new Altima CVT has the Maxima with the old CVT left so far behind there is no catching up.

This is essentially a newly designed CVT (Altima) running against a CVT (Maxima) that was designed in 2007 and that has been on the road since June of 2008. The upcoming 8th gen Maxima will have a CVT that is at least equivalent to the Altima, plus a little more engine power than the Altima, and should immediately rectify the situation in which you found yourself.

The 7th gen Maxima, with six model years, has already tied the 3rd gen for longest run, and with the 2015 edition next year will become the longest-running Maxima generation ever. That was not what Nissan had in mind. Initially, the 8th gen was slipped because of the recession. Then the Altima CVT problems cropped up.

The 8th gen Maxima almost surely would have been released as the 2015 model this coming spring, had not the Altima CVT problems come up around a year ago. But every delay in releasing the 8th gen Maxima means there will be even more up-to-date goodies and styling included.

Blackmax12

Not that I dispute your information regarding the different versions of the CVT but let's not forget that the Altima is a lighter vehicle than the Maxima which would help it off the line.

Import Roller

The new cvt in the Altima are still very problematic. I have a list going on nissanclub and we have a lot that are getting replaced at low mileage. It is mostly 2.5s, not too many 3.5s. My manual though still kicks the cvt in the *** when it comes to performance.

Foghorn

My wife owns a 2013 Altima 2.5S and that transmission was replaced the first month of owning it. I've test drove it and it was making a plastic grinding sound under the dash and assumed that the speedometer gears were just grinding under the dash, as the speed increased on the car, the noise got progressively louder. Took it to the dealer to have it looked at and they told me it was a bad CVT transmission
The dealer replaced the CVT with a new one and that car has been flwless.

So, having going through that, I wanted to perform do a CVT transmission flush on my 2010 Maxima with 41,000 miles. I've read in the older CVT Fluid Drain/fill thread that recommended doing a drain and refill only on the CVT transmission. http://forums.maxima.org/7th-generat...rain-fill.html

In light of this, I have also discovered on Altima thread a guy had drained the CVT fluid in the radiator cooling portion on his Altima 3.5SE, in addition to the standard CVT transmission drain/refill. http://www.nissanclub.com/forums/f-q...id-change.html

The 7th Gen maxima FSM (Full Service Manual) just indicates to do the CVT transmission drain/refill and to do a similar CVT cooler cleaning using the air gun only if the transmission was repaired,overhauled, or replaced.

If I took my Maxima to have them perform the CVT drain/refill, would they also perform this cooler cleaning or just the CVT drain/refill? Does anyone have any experience with this during the dealer service visits?

I'll most likely do the CVT drain/refill myself... and lastly, how would I protect my 100,000 CVT warranty on my 2010 Model, would this void the CVT warranty if I didn't use the Nissan dealer?

Boslax6123

Good question, chances are this wouldn't void your warranty and I wouldn't get swayed by dealership threats. Worst case just call a random dealer to get some reassurance beforehand.

The only thing that would make me want to get the cooler cleaned is if they did not replace that part when switching out your CVT.

Foghorn

Sorry I didn't mean to hijack the CVT Vs Manual thread... The reason I posted the previous message was that, drain/refill on the transmission will be 4.5 qt. and cooling portion is additional 5 qt. of NS-2 to the 4.5 qt. on the CVT transmission portion. So, if you only do the CVT transmission you are essentially replacing half the CVT fluid. I know the there's additional fluid to the torque converter, but the impact will be minimal compared to the fluid replacing on both transmission and the fluid in the cooling system.

jontyrees

Interesting thread, although I think maybe a more useful topic would be CVT vs Conventional AT. I'm always mulling my next car purchase, and tend to be in the "near luxury, kinda sporty" market, so the deals available on 2013/2014 Maximas warrant a look. I observe conventional ATs going from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8 to 9 speeds, which clearly is a trend toward the ultimate number of speeds - the "infinite" speed CVT. Theoretically, it has to be the most efficient solution - assuming that the computer controlling the ratio is smart enough to do it correctly. It's the same as assuming the brain behind a 6sp AT downshifts, upshifts at the right time. I think what people find disconceerting is that they are used to the speed of the car having a direct relationship with the engine speed, for each gear. With a CVT the "gear" is constantly changing, so you don't have that direct relationship. The "sluggish off the line" phenomenon isn't a CVT issue, it's just the way the software has been mapped for this particular execution of a CVT. I'm sure Nissan could make it step off the line like a scalded cat if they so wished.

My fears with a 7th gen Maxima are the slow-off-the-line ratio mapping, longevity concerns, and potentially low resale value. I haven't test driven one btw - just hearsay.

Norm Peterson

You have to realize that when the CVT first appeared the 6MT was dropped. IOW, the conventional AT was replaced by the CVT and the MT went into the history books with no comparable replacement whatsoever. Some MT Maxima owners probably felt abandoned, I know I did.

Making the transition from conventional AT to CVT is a much smaller step than going from a conventional MT to CVT, and that is what precipitated a number of related threads comparing the CVT specifically against the MT (that have since all been merged into this one).

As a die-hard MT enthusiast, I like my primary car controls kept independent of one another, and I suspect that's the way other MT enthusiasts feel. Having shifts occur at times not of the driver's choosing - or not occurring at all as is the case with a CVT in full auto mode - can be a low-level irritation that can't be fixed. Only adapted to, like it or not.


"Motorboating", which seems to be a common description of the disconnect between a CVT car's engine rpm and road speed, is much more noticeable from a MT driver's experience than from an AT-only background. One of the reasons here is that the torque converter in a conventional AT allows for a limited amount of engine revs being out of step with mph, most typically during acceleration in the lower gears or when the lockup torque converter is otherwise unlocked.


Norm

zoemayne

iTrader: (4)

People just don't like change. Even if it's 10X's more efficient.

lightonthehill

Very true. And the change between a manual and a CVT is rather drastic. But there are other factors at play, such a traffic density in some areas.

The CVT has clearly been an effort on the part of auto manufacturers to try to meet the ever-increasing fuel efficiency requirements. I have no doubt the CVT will eventually be a more efficient tranny than a manual, especially for inexperienced drivers, although the difference at the present time is not very pronounced.

If I lived somewhere traffic was halfway decent, I would miss the feeling of control that only a manual can give. I drove manuals for years, and know how Norm Feels.

But, as I sit so often in gridlock wherever I go in the Atlanta metro area (and even in the smaller growing towns within fifty miles of Atlanta), I realize a manual would no longer be fun here.

I think many performance cars, as well as some high-volume and European cars, will continue to offer a manual option in the near future, but a lower volume near-luxury family sedan such as the Maxima (aim is 70K copies, and I don't think Nissan even sells that many now) is not an ideal situation for a manual option.

But, whereas in recent years I suspected we had seen the last manual Maxima, the first look at the prototype of the 8th gen Maxima looks like a design that would sell well with a manual option. Maybe a six or seven speed manual? But I shouldn't say anything to get anyone's hopes up, as it probably won't happen.

04BlackMaxx

Ill believe CVT is a step towards the future when I see it on the S550 and 750i, which we wont.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Me and you are thinking the samething! The Day Nissan/Infiniti stuffed one in a G37, M37, M56, or their newer Q50, Q60 models.... Then I know it's a damn good transmission or better yet!!!! When Formula 1 switches to CVT then I'm sold on the design until then I'll take a Manualmatic/paddle shifters!!!!

Red4drSE

they did put it in a f1 car back in the 90s but it was banned...go look it up on utube

silberma

Keep in mind that Honda just made all their 2014 Accords with 4 cylinders have CVT's. To me it is an endorsement of the technology.

Norm Peterson

A CVT is also standard equipment on the 4 cylinder Subaru Legacy trims.

Endorsement of the technology? Perhaps.

But there's likely some recognition that most drivers not only don't care how their car goes about its business of running - they don't even want to be aware of what's going on and would much rather be insulated from it all.


Norm

erazz

What i'm noticing with my 2010 Maxima is the pickup. Its seems slow/sluggish unless i jam on it, which is fine at times, but I dont want to have to do that just to get some acceleration. When I start to go and switch to the peddle shifters, its at 4th gear at less then 20mph. Not sure if thats normal for CVT's, but that's what I seem to notice. Im still someone indifferent on it, so more driving will help

lightonthehill

CVTs tend to be programmed to use the lowest RPMs practical. That is not always where we need to be.

The 7th gen Maxima CVTs are not indicative of pickup that will soon be available with a CVT. Nissan intentionally damped down the off-the-line acceleration on the 7th gen Maximas from the time of their intro because they were concerned with the reliability of the redesigned CVT. Fortunately, their new 7th gen CVT was reliable.

Unfortunately, Nissans latest CVT redesigned for the new Altima and 8th gen Maxima has had major problems. That has delayed the intro of the 8th gen Maxima.

Although CVTs offer the possibility of better fuel efficiency and better acceleration at some point in the future, the reality is that improvements are incremental at this point. If the truth be known, I suspect manufacturers have found that CVTs will soon be cheaper to build, and engineers looking for places to cut weight have found CVTs are lighter and ergonomists looking for more space have found CVTs are smaller, so we will see more and more CVTs, whether we want them or not.

At some point, the advantages of the CVT will become more apparent. Although I have adjusted to the CVT, and enjoy driving it in urban traffic conditions, 'driving fun' will never be listed among the advantages of the CVT.

silberma

Great fuel efficiency can also achieved with a multi-speed traditional transmission. My BMW 535i which weighs 700 lbs. more than the Maxima but has a 8 speed automatic transmission gets consistently better gas mileage than the Maxima for the same driving conditions. Highway driving (at posted speed limits) it gets in the mid 30's MPG

Norm Peterson

Better fuel efficiency can actually be had with a conventional manual transmission than with any automatic, whether multi-speed or CVT, as long as the driver operates it with optimum fuel usage in mind. Reason - there are no fluid pumps or slippages at hydraulic couplings under non-lockup conditions to bleed off efficiency, and even automatics need to churn up the tranny fluid for gear and bearing lubrication purposes. This does imply transmissions with gearing selected with efficiency in mind.

It's the carbon-based control unit sitting behind the steering wheel being unwilling to do his part or unable to do it well that gets in the way.


Norm

lightonthehill

Norm - Do we have a Nissan part number for that carbon-based control unit? If possible, I would like the hard-to-find special version that comes without a cell phone attached.

Norm Peterson

Dunno, light. My parts guy is almost certainly going to tell me that the AT part# has been discontinued and U.S. stock fully depleted with no plans to replenish it. I am pretty sure that the MT part# is still available, though it may not fully interchange without significant modification that would necessarily void any warranty.


Norm

erazz

After 4 months of driving, I have to say i'm not a fan of the CVT engine. There's times when you really feel the 290hp, and then there's times when it seems the acceleration seems to fight you and feels like a 150hp 4 cylinder.

I read a comment about someone believing that the engine actually learns your driving style, however is quick to forget it. If that's true, and by the way its been driving im actually inclined to believe it, its the last thing i want! I want the engine to perform the same, day in and day out. Not to mention options like turning on/off engine breaking, I just want an engine with moving parts, not with computers trying to figure things out lol. I use 91 or 93 octane, but have seen it perform this way on both.

From everything i've been reading it sounds like CVT's are here to stay, but just frustrated by the inconsistency.

lightonthehill

There may be something not operating correctly with your car. My CVT has been absolutely perfect. Always finds the sweet spot, RPM-wise. Granted, the first year or so, I did not feel all that comfortable with this CVT. Nissan sort of 'soft-pedaled' these CVT equiped cars off the line a tad, probably because they were not totally sure they could handle 290HP. But once this 7th gen is rolling, it can jump from 40 MPH to 80 MPH qicker than any car I have owned (I have owned six different Maxima generations and dozens of other cars).

Like most, I was not convinced I would like the CVT early on. But after learning to drive eying the tach instead of the speedometer, and learning how to feather the accelerator, It has become a much more natural driving experience, and I will be specifically looking for a CVT in my cars henceforth.

I also love the engine braking, but that is probably because I am sort of a spirited driver. Not Mario Andretti, but neither am I Mrs. Daisy. I still have not adjusted to the car learning my driving habits. When I am stuck in traffic, I want very measured response from my car. But when I am on the open road, I want aggressive action from my car. I don't want the car trying to apply some 'norm' in either situation.

Yes, the manual trannies were more fun to drive when there were less than umpteen million folks jammed in around me, and I would still prefer a manual if I lived where there was open country closeby. But there is less open country every day, and traffic around the Atlanta area is absolutely horrible. A manual here is disaster. I know, because I drove a five speed manual here from 1978 to 1984. Almost ruined my left knee and my right arm.

I suppose I was helped in my conversion to the CVT by having been driving since the 1940s. I have had to adjust to a lot over the years. I remember when drivers had to crank start their cars from in front of the car by sticking a crank through the bottom of the grille. I remember when drivers complained that tires without tubes were not dependable. I also remember when drivers were not happy with the feel of those newfangled radial tires.

But we either adjust to change or get left behind. This octogenarian is determined to not be left behind.

erazz

It seems fine once it gets up to the 40's, but the soft pedaling is what I hate.

lightonthehill

The 7th gen Maxima moves from zero to 60 in around six seconds, which is very decent. But you are absolutely correct about the tad of slushiness in the 7th gen Maxima below 35 MPH during acceleration from standstill.

That slushiness at startup is what Nissan is trying to fix with the new CVT they put in the new 2013 Altima. But the new Altimas with 3.5 engines had trouble with the new CVT right from the start, and it is my opinion that this is a major reason the 8th gen Maxima introduction has been delayed.

In fact, I would not be surprised to find out that Nissan originally intended that the 8th gen would begin with the 2014 model year, but this new CVT problem cropped up as soon as the new 2013 Altimas were introduced, putting Nissan in a bind.

I am hearing rumors that Nissan has a fix for the new CVT problem, but it came far too late to release the 8th gen Maxima as the 2014 model year, and is actually delaying the release as the 2015 model year.

If these rumors are true, then I am glad Nissan decided to hold off on the 8th gen Maxima until the tranny was right. We don't need Nissan trying to be General Motors II.

erazz

I just wish it could be fixed on the 7th gen, thanks for the info

TX_MAXICAN

It's ok I guess, can say I hate it in the maxima. I hate it in my Sentra. But also can't say I love it. I feel like the top gear guys (the real one not crap US show) where they hate paddle shifters or CVT's

I love manuals but got stuck into buying cvt cars. Being a mechanic I undestand all the nerdy stuff such as fuel economy and all that, and have driven my fair share of all sorts of vehicles. The maxima is quick but at same time I feel is lacking a little. We traded an 06 Altima 3.5 SE for the maxima, I felt like Altima was more responsive and quicker over all, that's why I feel like the maxima is lacking. I don't know maybe I'm talking out my a$$ but just feel that the "4-door sports sedan" should feel better, faster and live up to it being the best sedan they have. Or maybe it's because I haven't driven a newer maxima to feel the difference in their cvt's

I knowing probably going to gets lot of crap but just like some other folks on here I like moving parts not electronics, i can feel the car. I don't care if in traffic, on highway, cruising or just feel like romping on it if rather have a manual any day, except after hard leg days at gym. But like I said that's me and my experience

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

This is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison because you are also comparing a turbocharged 3.0 liter engine to an normally aspirated 3.5. Smaller displacement will always have the advantage when it comes to fuel economy.

Norm Peterson

↑↑↑

It may not be quite that simple. NA engines can typically run a higher compression ratio, and FI engines run a richer mixture at least when boost is being developed.


Norm

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

That's true, but if you're driving economically, boost would not be developing, or developing minimally.

JRod28

While the Maxima is a very sporty car, it's not the 4-door sports car that Nissan wants us to think it is. You want a sports car-- then buy a Z. I've had both (a 2003 350Z) and a couple of of Maximas before my current 2014.
Sports cars are nice, but for an every day driver--- give me the Maxima. A manual transmission is fun, but again, for a daily driver-- give me an automatic. Yeah, the CVT isn't perfect, but that's if you're looking for it to perform like a stick... If you want a manual transmission car, buy one that offers it...

Norm Peterson

The whole point of a true "4-door sports car" is to retain as much of the sports car driving experience as possible while adding enough utility to still be entirely usable as a family sedan.


That's easy to say until you try to actually do it. I've been jumping ship from one car mfr to another since the late 1970's specifically over this one single item. And it looks like I'll have to jump yet again the next time I buy a car that will reasonably seat four or five, as it appears that Subaru has dropped the GT and gone automatic-only (and mostly CVT). Obviously, the BRZ doesn't count.




Norm

lightonthehill

Norm - My daughter had a manual RX-7 rotary engine Mazda for her first car back in the 1970s, and has refused to own anything but manual trannies ever since. She just bought a manual tranny 2015 Mazda 6, and loves it. It isn't quite as big as the Maxima inside, but is close. Doesn't have the Maxima's power either. But at least it is a real manual, and the car drives with a sporty edge. Mazdas also have been rated as both 'reliable' and 'good buy' by Consumer reports.

P.S. - I just rechecked the latest (December 2014) Consumer Reports, and it rates the Mazda 6 as the second most reliable midsize sedan of 15 tested, even more reliable than both 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder Camrys and Accords.

Norm Peterson

Thanks, light.

The 6 and the Accord are both at least on the radar, with the size being something we'd have to consider carefully and power/torque already having yellow flag status by being noticeably under 200 each. Something like our '01 SE/20AE would still fill the bill nicely even though its performance is a bit off what the LGT Subaru can deliver.

I'm really dreading the next episode in car shopping, as it seems that all the focus these days is on infotainment, connectivity, high-tech solutions to tasks that don't need and shouldn't have to get that kind of approach, and an out-of-control obsession with ever more (and more intrusive) nannies. [/rant]


Norm

MaXiMaLiBra

Lots of interesting comments on this thread! I have to agree with Norm and lightonthehill overall. I definitely give the CVT a thumbs up. It's not perfect but I'm very happy with it.

I have always had manual transmission vehicles until my Maximaii. I share a C7 Stingray with my father and we opted for the 7 speed over the paddle shift auto. Comparing the CVT to my 5th Gen, I think it's a huge improvement. Sometimes I get nostalgic for a manual and use the paddles, but primarily I use the Ds mode unless I'm stuck in city traffic where I use the standard D mode. It does seem to lag and have a droning sound at mid range speeds but overall she's very responsive. Almost 70k miles and runs like new.

ML

Norm Peterson

In cleaning out some old issues of the Subaru magazine I get I ran across this chart. What you can get from it is how the shift schedule for the discrete ratios can be of variable sensitivity to what you're doing with your right foot.


In this particular plot - the sportiest mode available - the CVT's "shifting" map isn't very aggressive for the first 1/8 throttle - it's entirely willing to keep seeking numerically lower ratios. But it gets much more enthusiastic over about the next 3/8 throttle before slowing down a bit in the last 1/2 throttle.

Other programming schedules could exaggerate different regions and slow down the middle, or slow everywhere but the last 1/4 down. Nissan and Subaru may have different ideas in detail about this, but overall I don't see there being significant differences in end result.

Thought it'd be interesting to sort of see what you might be feeling.




Norm

techguy89

That's good for your daughter but a 7th gen maxima is still twice the car most new cars are today. My maxima has 108000 km and still drives like new, is as sporty as I need and is even fuel efficient compared to the amount of power it has and the size of the engine. It is even almost as fast as most base sports car like the camero or mustang. The cvt, although I was septical at first provides fast shifting when in manual mode compatible to that of a dual clutch and is definatey faster and more fuel efficient then a manual. I definatey think the days on a manual transmission are limited especially since the new generation of car drivers do not know how to pproperly drive them.

lightonthehill

For my driving (never-ending congestion, need of room and comfort, love of decent power, etc), of course the Maxima is by far the best. That is why I have owned nothing but Maximas since October 1984, and will be buying the 8th gen as soon as it arrives.

But there are those folks like my daughter who don't need lots of interior room, and aren't interested in elapsed times, but simply love to drive a car that has a manual tranny that shifts smoothly, that steers crisply, that has plenty of pep, that gets well over 30 MPG, and brings back memories of days when manuals were the 'only' real driver's tranny.

I can see why some Subaru and Mazda models are selling very well. Even my wife has been eyeing Subarus and Mazdas.

I do have one quirk that I think Norm may also have - I don't even bother to use some of those new techno-gadgets, especially the phone options. I feel I need to keep my eyes AND MY ONE-TRACK BRAIN on my driving.