The Official CVT vs Manual Transmission Thread
04-28-2010, 11:50 AM
#281
AWD would have added a chunk of money to the price of the Maxima. It would also have lowered the fuel efficiency slightly, added to overall repair costs, added to existing dealer lot crowding in order to have both FWD and AWD Maximas on the lot, and eventually got a lot of drivers stuck who thought AWD was a cure-all panacea.
Maxima's switching to AWD would'nt be a bad move at all.
04-28-2010, 11:51 AM
#282
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Is an auto-only Maxima still a Maxima? 
I finally sold my Maxima a few weeks ago. It was my second and I loved it. I replaced it with a Prius. I decided that since Maximas were dead to me now I may as well just throw in the damn towel and so that's what I got.
Actually, I've not driven one but the new Sonata has 198 horsepower and comes with a standard. Gets good mileage and is cheap. I wonder if it is similar to a 4th gen (which I also had and loved).
--
This question never occurred to me until now. I read how CVTs work on howstuffworks (). How can a car with a CVT idle when stopped and in gear; what is slipping to keep it going and not stalling out?
I finally sold my Maxima a few weeks ago. It was my second and I loved it. I replaced it with a Prius. I decided that since Maximas were dead to me now I may as well just throw in the damn towel and so that's what I got.
Actually, I've not driven one but the new Sonata has 198 horsepower and comes with a standard. Gets good mileage and is cheap. I wonder if it is similar to a 4th gen (which I also had and loved).
--
This question never occurred to me until now. I read how CVTs work on howstuffworks (
). How can a car with a CVT idle when stopped and in gear; what is slipping to keep it going and not stalling out?
04-28-2010, 12:05 PM
#283
now Nissans are becoming so down to earth and like everything else, that people are saying, "what's the differnce between a Prius and a Maxima?"
04-28-2010, 01:33 PM
#284
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i dont agree with that for the simple fact that Suburu has affordable vehicles that all have AWD. yea its costly to fix but so are Automagic's and Manuals when they go out. hell my Max needs a clutch in a few months and it's gonna run me $1300 parts and labor. AWD clutches and servicing run roughly the same price and AWD is definetly more effcient than a FWD car any day of the week.
Maxima's switching to AWD would'nt be a bad move at all.
Maxima's switching to AWD would'nt be a bad move at all.
I do remember seeing a report dealing with a study of driven vs nondriven wheels, where the driven wheel offered less resistance. Whether that's enough to cover for the extra friction associated with all those extra gears and U-joints is a separate question. I doubt that it is for driving on paved roads.
PS to 5 ltr – your anticipated clutch expense reminded me of why I have learned to do most mechanical repairs myself. My 2nd Gen cost me $1600 or so 20 years ago for a MT repair (input shaft bearing disintegrated). Plus 3 weeks in the shop waiting for parts. Less than 50,000 miles later I did mostly the same job myself for a quarter of that, and after 60,000 miles again did a bigger repair that still came in at less than the shop's charge. Never did figure out what the root cause was for sure, though I have a suspicion.
PS in general - I might as well put it here – push came to shove in the household vehicle situation and we actually got a Subaru for my wife as her daily driver and us for trips. 2.5GT (turbo, 265BHP, 6-speed manual, 3450 lbs). It's not quite as refined as the Maxima (the sound of the doors closing being perhaps the most noticeable "shortcoming" noted so far), but it's roomy, powerful and responsive, and the driver's seat somehow manages to fully accommodate both of our widely differing anatomies and seating preferences. Closer to the topic of this thread, my wife was more adamant about having a MT than I was (yes, I had specifically mentioned the paddle-shift CVT arrangement as a possible choice; no go, no can do). I'm not kidding about this.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 04-28-2010 at 01:42 PM.
04-28-2010, 01:57 PM
#285
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
people like you are the reason i hate what Nissan has done and the direction it is heading. its pushing away all the customers like you and me that grew up with cool fast cars with lots of potential.
now Nissans are becoming so down to earth and like everything else, that people are saying, "what's the differnce between a Prius and a Maxima?"
now Nissans are becoming so down to earth and like everything else, that people are saying, "what's the differnce between a Prius and a Maxima?"
04-28-2010, 02:26 PM
#286
I think you have to consider Subaru to be a singularity within the automotive biz. They aren't a full-line manufacturer, and AWD is available on at least one version of every model. That makes it easier to amortize the costs associated with basic development and production. Even so, I don't see how you could add a couple of expensive differentials, a transfer case, and several more U-joints and come out even on the cost side.
? every company has to start somewhere. Nissan wasnt a full line manufacturer for awhile and look at where they are now.and AWD is STANDARD on ALL suburu models. it's not optional.
i agree that its easier to amortize the cost with just one drivetrain, but im stating that moving the Maxima to an all-wheel drive platform would'nt be a bad idea.
your anticipated clutch expense reminded me of why I have learned to do most mechanical repairs myself. My 2nd Gen cost me $1600 or so 20 years ago for a MT repair (input shaft bearing disintegrated). Plus 3 weeks in the shop waiting for parts. Less than 50,000 miles later I did mostly the same job myself for a quarter of that, and after 60,000 miles again did a bigger repair that still came in at less than the shop's charge. Never did figure out what the root cause was for sure, though I have a suspicion.
04-28-2010, 04:47 PM
#287
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Location: state of confusion
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and AWD is STANDARD on ALL suburu models. it's not optional.
agreed on the above. i would'nt mind tearing the tranny out myself, but lack of a rack i used to have access to, and no tools makes me dependent on a shop again.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 04-28-2010 at 04:51 PM.
04-28-2010, 06:21 PM
#288
04-29-2010, 01:17 AM
#289
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i dont agree with that for the simple fact that Suburu has affordable vehicles that all have AWD. yea its costly to fix but so are Automagic's and Manuals when they go out. hell my Max needs a clutch in a few months and it's gonna run me $1300 parts and labor. AWD clutches and servicing run roughly the same price and AWD is definetly more effcient than a FWD car any day of the week.
Maxima's switching to AWD would'nt be a bad move at all.
Maxima's switching to AWD would'nt be a bad move at all.
I must disagree with you on all counts.
The fact Subaru has AWD on its vehicles has absolutely ZILCH to do with the fact AWD versions of vehicles have a higher purchase price tag clearly posted on their window stickers than the FWD or RWD versions of the same vehicle. Simple fact.
It has been common knowledge for many years that having the AWD version of a vehicle adds more parts and functions that can go wrong, hence, ON AVERAGE, higher repair bills over the life of the car. Simple fact.
AWD is definitely LESS EFFICIENT than FWD or RWD. So much so that the EPA MPG readings for the AWD version of almost any vehicle are LOWER than the FWD or RWD version. Simple fact.
Maxima switching to AWD could not be justified for these reasons:
To have an AWD option on a FWD or RWD vehicle with a limited profit margin (Maxima) and limited production run (Maxima production goals were lowered to 70K when the 7th gen was introduced) is not as economically practical as adding it to a higher profit margin vehicle like the G37 or a higher production run vehicle.
To have an AWD version means the dealer must make room for both FWD and AWD Maximas. Nissan has what? with the Leaf and that new crossover announced a few days ago, I believe around SIXTEEN different vehicles. Many Nissan dealers are terribly cramped for lot space, and an AWD version of the Maxima reduces that space even further. This may not sound like a problem, but it is a VERY DEFINITE problem. For instance, to find a Maxima equipped as I wanted, my dealer's internet manager and I spent almost a month checking dealer inventory of dealers in five states, and my car had to be trucked in from another city.
Infiniti is Nissan's RWD/AWD sedan nameplate. Adding an AWD version to the near-luxury flagship Maxima would be firing a shot over the bow of the AWD version of the G37. Why would Nissan shoot themselves in the foot like that?
The Maxima has been FWD since October, 1984. To suggest an AWD Maxima at this point is to show a lack of understanding of the position of the Maxima in Nissan's hierarchy.
04-29-2010, 09:53 AM
#290
I must disagree with you on all counts.
The fact Subaru has AWD on its vehicles has absolutely ZILCH to do with the fact AWD versions of vehicles have a higher purchase price tag clearly posted on their window stickers than the FWD or RWD versions of the same vehicle. Simple fact. .
The fact Subaru has AWD on its vehicles has absolutely ZILCH to do with the fact AWD versions of vehicles have a higher purchase price tag clearly posted on their window stickers than the FWD or RWD versions of the same vehicle. Simple fact. .
Maxima msrp (fully loaded) $36,640 , Suburu Legacy 2.5 GT (fully loaded) $30,690.
http://www.nissanusa.com/maxima/
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/legacy/index.html
Maxima EPA 26/19. Suburu Legacy GT 25/18. wow
...a 1 MPG diffrence....ill take AWD and sacrifice that 1 mile Maxima switching to AWD could not be justified for these reasons:
To have an AWD option on a FWD or RWD vehicle with a limited profit margin (Maxima) and limited production run (Maxima production goals were lowered to 70K when the 7th gen was introduced) is not as economically practical as adding it to a higher profit margin vehicle like the G37 or a higher production run vehicle.
To have an AWD version means the dealer must make room for both FWD and AWD Maximas. Nissan has what? with the Leaf and that new crossover announced a few days ago, I believe around SIXTEEN different vehicles. Many Nissan dealers are terribly cramped for lot space, and an AWD version of the Maxima reduces that space even further. This may not sound like a problem, but it is a VERY DEFINITE problem. For instance, to find a Maxima equipped as I wanted, my dealer's internet manager and I spent almost a month checking dealer inventory of dealers in five states, and my car had to be trucked in from another city.
To have an AWD option on a FWD or RWD vehicle with a limited profit margin (Maxima) and limited production run (Maxima production goals were lowered to 70K when the 7th gen was introduced) is not as economically practical as adding it to a higher profit margin vehicle like the G37 or a higher production run vehicle.
To have an AWD version means the dealer must make room for both FWD and AWD Maximas. Nissan has what? with the Leaf and that new crossover announced a few days ago, I believe around SIXTEEN different vehicles. Many Nissan dealers are terribly cramped for lot space, and an AWD version of the Maxima reduces that space even further. This may not sound like a problem, but it is a VERY DEFINITE problem. For instance, to find a Maxima equipped as I wanted, my dealer's internet manager and I spent almost a month checking dealer inventory of dealers in five states, and my car had to be trucked in from another city.
do you think todays youth gives a dam about Nissan's hierarchy? all they care about is IPOD hookups, navigation and HID's. Nissan is evolving and needs to keep up, and they are doing an excellent job.
but switching the Max to an AWD platform is not a bad idea, and as i struck down all the points that you desparately made saying that it's NOT beneficial, it would not affect the current reliability of the car whatsoever.
Last edited by 5 ltr. beater; 04-29-2010 at 11:38 AM.
04-29-2010, 10:27 AM
#292
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
I could see Max going AWD I suppose, it would help differentiate it from the Altima further but it would be in too great competition from the 37x and I do feel it very unlikely.
The arguments about AWD decreasing reliability are fair; it's simply more parts, regardless of how Subaru does. And it does lower mileage. Not much, though. You can compare AWD and non-AWD of cars like the G to see how much.
The arguments about AWD decreasing reliability are fair; it's simply more parts, regardless of how Subaru does. And it does lower mileage. Not much, though. You can compare AWD and non-AWD of cars like the G to see how much.
04-29-2010, 10:33 AM
#293
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 910
I concur. He doesn't seem to get that they make the G37 with the AWD/RWD to fill the void that the Maxima doesn't fit into. Why would you overlap designs and rebadge it? That right there would be considered shooting themselves in the foot and ultimate destroy Infiniti as a name. The Maxima always has and always will have FWD. Thats just the way it is going to be no matter how many of these people yell and scream (and make very incoherent arguements). If anything, and this is a very long long stretch, Nissan would give the Altima an AWD setup to fill the void that Subaru now fills with mid size entry level sedans with AWD.
Sidenote: In the real world the Infiniti's AWD doesn't even drive that well anyways. If I wanted a great AWD I would jump ship to Audi again.
Sidenote: In the real world the Infiniti's AWD doesn't even drive that well anyways. If I wanted a great AWD I would jump ship to Audi again.
Last edited by Mreim769; 04-29-2010 at 10:38 AM.
04-29-2010, 10:39 AM
#294
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and it's also a simple fact that many Suburu's will hit the 200k mile mark alot more often than a maxima will. simple fact. hell, im a Nissan lover at heart, but in no way is my "4DSC" gonna outlast the durability of a RALLY CAR.
Don't get me wrong, I have family members that swear by Subaru just like Nissan so I'm not trying to say Subaru is a bad company. I personally like the new Legacy myself.
04-29-2010, 11:25 AM
#295
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04-29-2010, 11:33 AM
#296
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Location: New Jersey
Posts: 738
Have you even had an Infiniti with AWD to make as statement like that? I'd really like to know! I have had a AWD FX35 for several years and that statement you just made couldn't be further from the truth. I've used it many many times in some lousy NJ winter's and its kept me from ever being in an accident. As soon as the AWD engages you can feel the difference and the tires plant firmly into the pavement.
I've never had an Audi so I can't comment on their AWD and compare it but there is nothing wrong with Infiniti's AWD. I wouldn't trade an Infiniti for Audi's reliability record, especially in the long-term arena. I bet your likely to have to repair the Audi AWD long before the Infiniti's on average!
I've never had an Audi so I can't comment on their AWD and compare it but there is nothing wrong with Infiniti's AWD. I wouldn't trade an Infiniti for Audi's reliability record, especially in the long-term arena. I bet your likely to have to repair the Audi AWD long before the Infiniti's on average
!
04-29-2010, 11:49 AM
#297
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
Have you even had an Infiniti with AWD to make as statement like that? I'd really like to know! I have had a AWD FX35 for several years and that statement you just made couldn't be further from the truth. I've used it many many times in some lousy NJ winter's and its kept me from ever being in an accident. As soon as the AWD engages you can feel the difference and the tires plant firmly into the pavement.
I've never had an Audi so I can't comment on their AWD and compare it but there is nothing wrong with Infiniti's AWD. I wouldn't trade an Infiniti for Audi's reliability record, especially in the long-term arena. I bet your likely to have to repair the Audi AWD long before the Infiniti's on average!
I've never had an Audi so I can't comment on their AWD and compare it but there is nothing wrong with Infiniti's AWD. I wouldn't trade an Infiniti for Audi's reliability record, especially in the long-term arena. I bet your likely to have to repair the Audi AWD long before the Infiniti's on average
! I know they are known for AWD but the VW/AUDI are basically disposable cars now, their quality went to pot years ago.
04-29-2010, 11:58 AM
#298
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 86
Please stop - you're killing me
Maxima's have never had AWD. Maximas will never have AWD. Maximas have CVT. It is likely Maximas will never have conventional transmissions again. New Maximas do not have manual transmissions. It is likely Maximas will never have manual transmissions again. If you can't deal with any of the above, please buy another car. Thank you.
04-29-2010, 12:47 PM
#300
and usually an "incoherent argument" defense is generally used by people with lower IQ's. so i would'nt use that term.
ill take ATTESA any day of the week!
(p.s. that was a biased comment)
Last edited by 5 ltr. beater; 04-29-2010 at 01:09 PM.
04-29-2010, 01:02 PM
#301
Maxima's have never had AWD. Maximas will never have AWD. Maximas have CVT. It is likely Maximas will never have conventional transmissions again. New Maximas do not have manual transmissions. It is likely Maximas will never have manual transmissions again. If you can't deal with any of the above, please buy another car. Thank you.
The maxima having AWD was just a comment i made and now taken out of context by our fellow .org members (such as yourself) .
just for the record, the Maxima will NEVER have AWD and probably NEVER have a manual ever again.
can one dream about it? sure! and this is the place to post it.
thank you and please drive through.
04-29-2010, 02:28 PM
#302
even worse. thank you for helping me prove his statement that AWD vehicles cost more than the FWD competitors is wrong.
I'm sorry you fell into Nissan's 4DSC marketing sticker they slapped on the rear window. Its been discussed on here time and time again, this Maxima is not a true 4DSC. I would love to see proof of this statement because I have family and friends I know personally who have reached 200k miles on their Nissan's a lot more then their Subaru's. I'm not saying you can't reach that miles on a Subaru but I don't think the statement is accurate. Since Nissan outsells Subaru by a huge margin, more Nissan's are going to reach 200k then the amount of Subaru's on the road, simply by the amount of product sold by each company.
eh. i dont think it's a matter of falling for nissan's 4DSC (even though i boast about it sometimes) ....i still think the older gen's 3rd , 4th, and 5th are better, but im just biased in that area though. my facts are just based on what i read in the Suby forums. with the abuse that WRX's and Legacy's go through and what the Max's go through, i see alot more problems with Nissan then i do Suburu (and they tend to put out more power mod for mod thanks to that little turbo).
but im not trying to change your mind on what lasts longer. i respect your comment.
Last edited by 5 ltr. beater; 04-29-2010 at 04:20 PM.
04-29-2010, 02:48 PM
#303
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 738
even worse. thank you for helping me prove him wrong that AWD vehicles cost more than the FWD competitors.
eh. i dont think it's a matter of falling for nissan's 4DSC (even though i boast about it sometimes) ....i still think the older gen's 3rd , 4th, and 5th are better, but im just biased in that area though. my facts are just based on what i read in the Suby forums. with the abuse that WRX's and Legacy's go through and what the Max's go through, i see alot more problems with Nissan then i do Suburu (and they tend to put out more power mod for mod thanks to that little turbo).
but im not trying to change your mind on what lasts longer. i respect your comment.
agreed.
eh. i dont think it's a matter of falling for nissan's 4DSC (even though i boast about it sometimes) ....i still think the older gen's 3rd , 4th, and 5th are better, but im just biased in that area though. my facts are just based on what i read in the Suby forums. with the abuse that WRX's and Legacy's go through and what the Max's go through, i see alot more problems with Nissan then i do Suburu (and they tend to put out more power mod for mod thanks to that little turbo).
but im not trying to change your mind on what lasts longer. i respect your comment.
agreed.
I personally like the Legacy and Outback from Subaru and find them relatively refined, nice quality vehicles and would cross shop them in the future.
05-01-2010, 02:00 AM
#305
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
ummm...ok.....
Maxima msrp (fully loaded) $36,640 , Suburu Legacy 2.5 GT (fully loaded) $30,690.
http://www.nissanusa.com/maxima/
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/legacy/index.html
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and it's also a simple fact that many Suburu's will hit the 200k mile mark alot more often than a maxima will with less problems. simple fact. hell, im a Nissan lover at heart, but in no way is my "4DSC" gonna outlast the durability of a RALLY CAR.
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There are tons of cars out there that cost less than the Maxima, and tons that cost more than the Maxima. Where an AWD version of any one of those cars takes the price of that car in relation to the price of the Maxima is absolutely and totally meaningless.
As far as reliability, most Subarus are very reliable (not so much the Imprezza WRX and Tribeca). But then Consumer Reports rates the Maxima as above average in reliability also. It may be a simple fact FOR YOU that Subarus reach 200,000 miles without major problems more often that a Maxima, but NOT FOR ME.
I have posted on the ORG several times about the Maxima I drove over 206,000 miles, then saw still tooling around town for several years after I let it go. My brother Ken lives high up in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and drives nothing but Subarus. He usually trades in around 80,000 to 100,000 because little things begin giving him trouble. So what is a 'simple fact' for you is exactly the opposite for me, even though my loaded Maximas have things (that could break or fail) my brother's loaded Subarus do not even have.
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Maxima EPA 26/19. Suburu Legacy GT 25/18. wow ...a 1 MPG diffrence....ill take AWD and sacrifice that 1 mile
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Absolutely incredible you ONCE AGAIN give stats for a Subaru as evidence the Maxima should have an AWD option. Without a FWD or RWD option available for the Subaru, how do we even know what the MPG for a non-AWD version of the Subaru would be? WORSE, TOTALLY different cars, different weights, different sizes, different purposes, different target buyers. Might as well be comparing a motorcycle to the Maxima.
Here is a quote from this month's CU Auto Edition on the Subaru Imprezza/Outback Sport: 'The standard AWD hurts performance and fuel economy, as (our tested) 23 MPG overall is low for this class.' In case you may still be confused, the Subaru and Maxima will never be placed in the same class by any rating system; apples and oranges.
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agreed. but if you would've spent a little more time reading my post, you would've seen that i was stating that Nissan should make the Maxima an AWD period. not optional. STANDARD. and you could've saved the above paragraph.
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That would be even worse than having the AWD as an option. Higher initial cost means the G37 and TL begin to take more Maxima buyers. AWD lowers the MPG at a time when MPG is becoming extremely important. The very strict MPG requirements that go into effect in a few years will mean reworking every facet of every vehicle for every fraction of an MPG the engineers can find.
No matter how you try to use the Subaru to prove an AWD vehicle needs no more repairs than a FWD or RWD vehicle, you are misguided. Common sense tells any rational person that, IN GENERAL, the more complex something becomes, the more expensive the repair usually is.
Put another way, AWD serves no purpose whatsoever for me, and I will never be buying an AWD vehicle. Nissan surveys its intended audience, then builds what they are looking for. It may be that you do not fall within Nissan's intended audience for the Maxima.
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same reason they shot themselves in the foot by making the interior and exterior of the Maxima as nice (if not nicer than a G37) , have you test drove a G37 and a Max? cause i have.
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Consumer Reports on the 2010 G37: 'The interior has HIGH QUALITY materials.'
Consumer Reports on the 2010 Maxima: 'The front seats are comfortable, but interior materials . . . AREN'T AS IMPRESSIVE.'
I will give you that the exterior styling of the Maxima is more exciting than the G37. But the G37 audience is usually a bit more conservative than the audience Nissan aims the Maxima toward. Nissan gave the G37 more power (even I noticed that the first time I touched the pedal), and made it a borderline 4DSC, while the Maxima settles for being an exciting, competent sporty FAMILY SEDAN.
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lack of understanding? mybe you need to understand that this is about making $$$ and keeping up with somthing called "DEMAND". and the Nissan Leaf is a pure example of Nissan meeting the DEMAND of the public. unfortunately times are changing and either a car company gets with the program or goes home. look at the interior of a Max of today vs. a 1984 Max.
do you think todays youth gives a dam about Nissan's hierarchy? all they care about is IPOD hookups, navigation and HID's. Nissan is evolving and needs to keep up, and they are doing an excellent job.
but switching the Max to an AWD platform is not a bad idea, and as i struck down all the points that you desparately made saying that it's NOT beneficial, it would not affect the current reliability of the car whatsoever.
Maxima msrp (fully loaded) $36,640 , Suburu Legacy 2.5 GT (fully loaded) $30,690.
http://www.nissanusa.com/maxima/
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/legacy/index.html
************************************************** ***********************
and it's also a simple fact that many Suburu's will hit the 200k mile mark alot more often than a maxima will with less problems. simple fact. hell, im a Nissan lover at heart, but in no way is my "4DSC" gonna outlast the durability of a RALLY CAR.
************************************************** ***********************
There are tons of cars out there that cost less than the Maxima, and tons that cost more than the Maxima. Where an AWD version of any one of those cars takes the price of that car in relation to the price of the Maxima is absolutely and totally meaningless.
As far as reliability, most Subarus are very reliable (not so much the Imprezza WRX and Tribeca). But then Consumer Reports rates the Maxima as above average in reliability also. It may be a simple fact FOR YOU that Subarus reach 200,000 miles without major problems more often that a Maxima, but NOT FOR ME.
I have posted on the ORG several times about the Maxima I drove over 206,000 miles, then saw still tooling around town for several years after I let it go. My brother Ken lives high up in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and drives nothing but Subarus. He usually trades in around 80,000 to 100,000 because little things begin giving him trouble. So what is a 'simple fact' for you is exactly the opposite for me, even though my loaded Maximas have things (that could break or fail) my brother's loaded Subarus do not even have.
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Maxima EPA 26/19. Suburu Legacy GT 25/18. wow
...a 1 MPG diffrence....ill take AWD and sacrifice that 1 mile ************************************************** ***********************
Absolutely incredible you ONCE AGAIN give stats for a Subaru as evidence the Maxima should have an AWD option. Without a FWD or RWD option available for the Subaru, how do we even know what the MPG for a non-AWD version of the Subaru would be? WORSE, TOTALLY different cars, different weights, different sizes, different purposes, different target buyers. Might as well be comparing a motorcycle to the Maxima.
Here is a quote from this month's CU Auto Edition on the Subaru Imprezza/Outback Sport: 'The standard AWD hurts performance and fuel economy, as (our tested) 23 MPG overall is low for this class.' In case you may still be confused, the Subaru and Maxima will never be placed in the same class by any rating system; apples and oranges.
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agreed. but if you would've spent a little more time reading my post, you would've seen that i was stating that Nissan should make the Maxima an AWD period. not optional. STANDARD. and you could've saved the above paragraph.
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That would be even worse than having the AWD as an option. Higher initial cost means the G37 and TL begin to take more Maxima buyers. AWD lowers the MPG at a time when MPG is becoming extremely important. The very strict MPG requirements that go into effect in a few years will mean reworking every facet of every vehicle for every fraction of an MPG the engineers can find.
No matter how you try to use the Subaru to prove an AWD vehicle needs no more repairs than a FWD or RWD vehicle, you are misguided. Common sense tells any rational person that, IN GENERAL, the more complex something becomes, the more expensive the repair usually is.
Put another way, AWD serves no purpose whatsoever for me, and I will never be buying an AWD vehicle. Nissan surveys its intended audience, then builds what they are looking for. It may be that you do not fall within Nissan's intended audience for the Maxima.
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same reason they shot themselves in the foot by making the interior and exterior of the Maxima as nice (if not nicer than a G37) , have you test drove a G37 and a Max? cause i have.
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Consumer Reports on the 2010 G37: 'The interior has HIGH QUALITY materials.'
Consumer Reports on the 2010 Maxima: 'The front seats are comfortable, but interior materials . . . AREN'T AS IMPRESSIVE.'
I will give you that the exterior styling of the Maxima is more exciting than the G37. But the G37 audience is usually a bit more conservative than the audience Nissan aims the Maxima toward. Nissan gave the G37 more power (even I noticed that the first time I touched the pedal), and made it a borderline 4DSC, while the Maxima settles for being an exciting, competent sporty FAMILY SEDAN.
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lack of understanding? mybe you need to understand that this is about making $$$ and keeping up with somthing called "DEMAND". and the Nissan Leaf is a pure example of Nissan meeting the DEMAND of the public. unfortunately times are changing and either a car company gets with the program or goes home. look at the interior of a Max of today vs. a 1984 Max.
do you think todays youth gives a dam about Nissan's hierarchy? all they care about is IPOD hookups, navigation and HID's. Nissan is evolving and needs to keep up, and they are doing an excellent job.
but switching the Max to an AWD platform is not a bad idea, and as i struck down all the points that you desparately made saying that it's NOT beneficial, it would not affect the current reliability of the car whatsoever.
Actually, you used the totally unrelated Subaru in a misguided attempt to strike down points. Your statement that 'times are changing' is at the very heart of why Nissan would have made a HUGE mistake to make the Maxima AWD. Higher AWD initial cost drives buyers to G37 and TL. AWD lowers MPG at a time when MPG will have to be raised considerably to meet the upcoming government requirements.
Adding AWD to a vehicle that has almost become the poster child for how good FWD can be? That would be very similar to the 'New Coke' of 1985. AWD is the opposite of everything the Maxima has always represented.
Thank goodness Nissan had the good sense to do this 7th gen Maxima right.
05-01-2010, 06:05 AM
#306
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 1,341
With respect to the Maxima and AWD, I thought that new car sales overall were way down (10,000,000 vs 16,000,000 are the numbers that come to mind). Bad timing for making a major shift in the direction of one model that's only targeted for ~70,000 sales.
Norm
05-02-2010, 01:22 PM
#307
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Actually, you used the totally unrelated Subaru in a misguided attempt to strike down points. Your statement that 'times are changing' is at the very heart of why Nissan would have made a HUGE mistake to make the Maxima AWD. Higher AWD initial cost drives buyers to G37 and TL. AWD lowers MPG at a time when MPG will have to be raised considerably to meet the upcoming government requirements.
Adding AWD to a vehicle that has almost become the poster child for how good FWD can be? That would be very similar to the 'New Coke' of 1985. AWD is the opposite of everything the Maxima has always represented.
Thank goodness Nissan had the good sense to do this 7th gen Maxima right.
Actually, you used the totally unrelated Subaru in a misguided attempt to strike down points. Your statement that 'times are changing' is at the very heart of why Nissan would have made a HUGE mistake to make the Maxima AWD. Higher AWD initial cost drives buyers to G37 and TL. AWD lowers MPG at a time when MPG will have to be raised considerably to meet the upcoming government requirements.
Adding AWD to a vehicle that has almost become the poster child for how good FWD can be? That would be very similar to the 'New Coke' of 1985. AWD is the opposite of everything the Maxima has always represented.
Thank goodness Nissan had the good sense to do this 7th gen Maxima right.
well i guess we can agree to disagree.
i see what you're saying and i respect that. the reason i say that making the Maxima AWD would'nt be much of a problem since ATTESA is an in-house system and could possibly (not an expert on this) be mated to the chassis of a Maxima.
however, may i ask, if you feel that Nissan is doing things right, why would they put their sportiest car (correction 4 door cause there is a 370Z) , and mate it to a CVT tranny that basically kills any aftermarket tweaking.
i understand that the % of people modding their car is extremely low, but sometimes its nice to drive a car that has "endless possibilities".
i guess as previously pointed out, modding cars has become a thing of the past and im still living there along with it. i miss the days when people were more in control of the car instead of the other way around.
05-02-2010, 03:46 PM
#308
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
well i guess we can agree to disagree. i see what you're saying and i respect that.
the reason i say that making the Maxima AWD would'nt be much of a problem since ATTESA is an in-house system and could possibly (not an expert on this) be mated to the chassis of a Maxima.
however, may i ask, if you feel that Nissan is doing things right, why would they put their sportiest car (correction 4 door cause there is a 370Z) , and mate it to a CVT tranny that basically kills any aftermarket tweaking.
i understand that the % of people modding their car is extremely low, but sometimes its nice to drive a car that has "endless possibilities".
i guess as previously pointed out, modding cars has become a thing of the past and im still living there along with it. i miss the days when people were more in control of the car instead of the other way around.
i see what you're saying and i respect that. the reason i say that making the Maxima AWD would'nt be much of a problem since ATTESA is an in-house system and could possibly (not an expert on this) be mated to the chassis of a Maxima.
however, may i ask, if you feel that Nissan is doing things right, why would they put their sportiest car (correction 4 door cause there is a 370Z) , and mate it to a CVT tranny that basically kills any aftermarket tweaking.
i understand that the % of people modding their car is extremely low, but sometimes its nice to drive a car that has "endless possibilities".
i guess as previously pointed out, modding cars has become a thing of the past and im still living there along with it. i miss the days when people were more in control of the car instead of the other way around.
Keep in mind that because I take a specific position does not necessarily mean I totally disagree with your position. I know very well there are two sides to every issue. You are not alone in your talking points.
Yes, Nissan could have made the Maxima AWD without breaking the bank. But I can assure you there was no talk whatsoever among Nissan Corp execs about making the Maxima AWD; that would be a quantum shift breaking over a quarter century of Maxima as the FWD sedan in the overall lineup. As Norm Peterson said, doing that in these economic times could have been risky.
The switch to CVT was made as a two-pronged approach to the future. First, Nissan feels the CVT will be the tranny of the future, because as it progresses, a proficient non-shifting CVT will give better acceleration and better fuel economy than a shifting tranny. Second, as a near-luxury sporty family sedan, the Maxima offered a perfect place in which to utilize this improved acceleration and fuel efficiency.
With greatly increased fuel requirements arriving within the next five years, I feel we will see more and more vehicles moved to the CVT, and probably more diesel options. As a fairly heavy car (3600 lbs), the Maxima might be a candidate for a diesel. Nissan actually had a diesel Maxima planned for 2011 until the economy collapsed. Maybe the 8th gen?
I have found the CVT is a lot of fun. Those who think all we do with a CVT car is drop it in gear and mash the pedal are very misinformed; it is wonderful how very slight changes in timing and pedal pressure can totally change the way the car performs.
We need to remember what Gohsn told us back in late 2001: The Maxima will be moved upscale to near-luxury, and WILL BE REPLACED AS AN AFFORDABLE ENTRY-LEVEL 4DSC BY THE MANUAL OPTION ALTIMA 3.5. That did take place, and the 6th gen was 'plushy.' But then Nissan decided to give the Maxima back a little stronger sporty edge, and we have the 7th gen. The use of the 4DSC sticker was a marketing after-thought that was probably a misleading mistake.
But Nissan did hit the mark with this baby, and I see more 7th gens on the road every day. I'm hoping for a clean diesel option for the 8th gen Maxima, probably arriving in March or April of 2013 as the 2014 model.
05-06-2010, 04:15 PM
#309
since this thread is primarily about the lack of a manual for the 7th gen, i figured you guys would enjoy this article from motortrend entitled: 10 cars you didn't know you could get with a manual!
check it out.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...ick/index.html
check it out.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...ick/index.html
05-06-2010, 05:00 PM
#310
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 1,341
I knew about the upcoming Buick and might well have considered it had it made it to market by the beginning of the year.
But just to toss a question back . . . if you narrow MT's list by setting a $40k price ceiling and drop out the normally aspirated fours - this being a quickie screening effort to identify the closest competitors to the Maxima and keep it as pertinent to this specific forum as possible - how many are you left with?
Norm
But just to toss a question back . . . if you narrow MT's list by setting a $40k price ceiling and drop out the normally aspirated fours - this being a quickie screening effort to identify the closest competitors to the Maxima and keep it as pertinent to this specific forum as possible - how many are you left with?
Norm
05-06-2010, 06:07 PM
#311
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
I knew about the upcoming Buick and might well have considered it had it made it to market by the beginning of the year.
But just to toss a question back . . . if you narrow MT's list by setting a $40k price ceiling and drop out the normally aspirated fours - this being a quickie screening effort to identify the closest competitors to the Maxima and keep it as pertinent to this specific forum as possible - how many are you left with?
Norm
But just to toss a question back . . . if you narrow MT's list by setting a $40k price ceiling and drop out the normally aspirated fours - this being a quickie screening effort to identify the closest competitors to the Maxima and keep it as pertinent to this specific forum as possible - how many are you left with?
Norm
Rats! Norm with the wet blanket, just as I was about to post our 6 speed MANUAL Snapper riding mower and our 5 speed MANUAL Ford diesel farm tractor.
Seriously, if I lived in Pandale, on the Pecos River in western Texas (85 miles from the nearest town, and in the middle of nowhere), I would REALLY have lamented the loss of the manual Maxima. But around where I live, the manual ceased to be fun around thirty years ago. Funny thing about the passage of time; it changes things.
05-07-2010, 07:38 AM
#312
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 910
Rats! Norm with the wet blanket, just as I was about to post our 6 speed MANUAL Snapper riding mower and our 5 speed MANUAL Ford diesel farm tractor.
Seriously, if I lived in Pandale, on the Pecos River in western Texas (85 miles from the nearest town, and in the middle of nowhere), I would REALLY have lamented the loss of the manual Maxima. But around where I live, the manual ceased to be fun around thirty years ago. Funny thing about the passage of time; it changes things.
Seriously, if I lived in Pandale, on the Pecos River in western Texas (85 miles from the nearest town, and in the middle of nowhere), I would REALLY have lamented the loss of the manual Maxima. But around where I live, the manual ceased to be fun around thirty years ago. Funny thing about the passage of time; it changes things.
05-07-2010, 09:25 AM
#313
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 1,341
. . . just as I was about to post our 6 speed MANUAL Snapper riding mower and our 5 speed MANUAL Ford diesel farm tractor.
Seriously, if I lived in Pandale, on the Pecos River in western Texas (85 miles from the nearest town, and in the middle of nowhere), I would REALLY have lamented the loss of the manual Maxima. But around where I live, the manual ceased to be fun around thirty years ago. Funny thing about the passage of time; it changes things.
Seriously, if I lived in Pandale, on the Pecos River in western Texas (85 miles from the nearest town, and in the middle of nowhere), I would REALLY have lamented the loss of the manual Maxima. But around where I live, the manual ceased to be fun around thirty years ago. Funny thing about the passage of time; it changes things.
I know that there still are a few people (like yourself) who know from their own direct experience precisely why they prefer an AT and under what conditions that they might be willing to drive something with a MT. What's sad is that it's the millions of other people who knee-jerk select the AT option at new-car purchase time without ever knowing for themselves, or those who simply buy what's on the lot without further thought beyond it being there. Their purchase actions have been shaping the market for us all . . .
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-07-2010 at 09:36 AM.
05-07-2010, 05:11 PM
#314
you probably think im crazy but my DD is my 5 spd max! it's so much more fun to drive than my M.
05-08-2010, 12:08 AM
#315
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
My last manual (5 speed '78 200SX Datsun) was a great car for driving around the north Georgia mountains, or on the open roads of south Georgia. But I worked in downtown Atlanta, and lived way out to the northeast of town, so by 1983, I found I was shifting over 850 times on the way to work, and the same again on the way home. And almost NEVER using high gear, seldom using 4th gear, and not even hitting 3rd gear as often as I would have liked.
That is FUN? Maybe the first trip. But it gets very old very quickly. Even 27 years later, I think my right (shifting) arm is still larger than my left, and my left (clutch) leg is larger than my right.
Last edited by lightonthehill; 05-08-2010 at 12:10 AM.
05-08-2010, 06:07 AM
#316
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 1,341
It wasn't that I really minded driving an AT car at the time or even paid much attention to it (mostly, they were Dad's cars). The AM commute wasn't bad at all - I once made the 24 mile distance in 24 minutes (the statute of limitations on that episode has long since expired, so I don't mind admitting what you're probably thinking
). It was the hour-and-a-quarter-plus drive time getting home (on a good night) with the first ten miles being stop and go that made me decide that I was not going to live that sort of commuting life if there was even a semi-reasonable way of avoiding it. No matter what I was driving.
That I've been fortunate enough to have been able to stick to my no-miserable-commutes decision through the years has probably made it easier to become rather hard-core about staying with MT's. But it doesn't explain why I chose to take that path in the first place, and with my early commuting experience I don't really know why I did.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-08-2010 at 06:13 AM.
05-08-2010, 07:07 PM
#317
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
That I've been fortunate enough to have been able to stick to my no-miserable-commutes decision through the years has probably made it easier to become rather hard-core about staying with MT's. But it doesn't explain why I chose to take that path in the first place, and with my early commuting experience I don't really know why I did. Norm
At least today's commuters are in a different environment than when I was commuting twenty to fifty-some years ago. There were no cellphones or CDs or MP3s back then, and fewer cars had tinted windows. So umpteen lanes of crawling motorists simply sat bored in traffic, looking around at each other.
Speaking of cellphones, in the 1930s and 1940s, most folks in rural areas had 'party line' phones. There were 4 parties on our line. If the phone rang once, the call was for the Burleson family. If it rang twice, it was for the Phillips family. If it rang three times, it was for our family. If it rang four times, it was for the Buchanan family. Yes, no matter what the number of rings, any of the four families could pick up the phone and listen in. Believe me, that put a damper on long amorous calls with your sweetie pie.
Phone dials had not come into existance, so we placed a call by turning the crank on the side of the phone (a shoebox-size wooden box on the wall), and when Myrtle (the switchboard operator) answered, we either told her to 'ring #23' (most phones in rural areas had only two digits in the 1930s), or, more commonly, asked her to 'Ring me Jiggs, please.' She not only knew Jiggs, and what his number was; she knew everybody in the county, and exactly what everybody in the county was doing.
05-08-2010, 07:21 PM
#318
Love my '09
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,013
I remember party lines. Where I lived out in yonder woods, we had that until I was 13. Now mind you, no hand-cranked phones.... I do have experience with them tho. That crank generator is a powerful worm zapper and brother/family annoy-er. Puts out some juice!!!! Anyway, back to the original subject.
05-09-2010, 06:17 PM
#319
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
My last three cars before my Maxima was a manual (Honda Accord, BMW 535i, Yes a 2008 Toyota Camry). They are fun, I was good enough to be able to eat and talk on the phone all while shifting and downshifting. So much fun, yes it was.
I'll never forget my manual shifting days the 3000 mile trip from Cali to NC in my 535i blasting through the mountains ahh great fun.
I have a CVT now, it's different, but fun in its own way. DS Mode is responsive and boy does that engine sound awesome at WOT. Paddle shifters are quick, normal drive mode is just fine for a mundane trip to the grocery store.
I love my Maxima, I recognize there are alternatives out there that many people like much better. Too bad my car is looked down upon by all the Manual Transmission, RWD lovers in the world. Sometimes I think we get too caught up in the specs and forget about the car.
I don't know why I typed this, maybe it is because the car I am attached to is being dragged through the coals for not being something that people want it to be.
I'll never forget my manual shifting days the 3000 mile trip from Cali to NC in my 535i blasting through the mountains ahh great fun.
I have a CVT now, it's different, but fun in its own way. DS Mode is responsive and boy does that engine sound awesome at WOT. Paddle shifters are quick, normal drive mode is just fine for a mundane trip to the grocery store.
I love my Maxima, I recognize there are alternatives out there that many people like much better. Too bad my car is looked down upon by all the Manual Transmission, RWD lovers in the world. Sometimes I think we get too caught up in the specs and forget about the car.
I don't know why I typed this, maybe it is because the car I am attached to is being dragged through the coals for not being something that people want it to be.
05-10-2010, 01:10 AM
#320
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
My last three cars before my Maxima was a manual (Honda Accord, BMW 535i, Yes a 2008 Toyota Camry). They are fun, I was good enough to be able to eat and talk on the phone all while shifting and downshifting. So much fun, yes it was.
I'll never forget my manual shifting days the 3000 mile trip from Cali to NC in my 535i blasting through the mountains ahh great fun.
I have a CVT now, it's different, but fun in its own way. DS Mode is responsive and boy does that engine sound awesome at WOT. Paddle shifters are quick, normal drive mode is just fine for a mundane trip to the grocery store.
I love my Maxima, I recognize there are alternatives out there that many people like much better. Too bad my car is looked down upon by all the Manual Transmission, RWD lovers in the world. Sometimes I think we get too caught up in the specs and forget about the car.
I don't know why I typed this, maybe it is because the car I am attached to is being dragged through the coals for not being something that people want it to be.
I'll never forget my manual shifting days the 3000 mile trip from Cali to NC in my 535i blasting through the mountains ahh great fun.
I have a CVT now, it's different, but fun in its own way. DS Mode is responsive and boy does that engine sound awesome at WOT. Paddle shifters are quick, normal drive mode is just fine for a mundane trip to the grocery store.
I love my Maxima, I recognize there are alternatives out there that many people like much better. Too bad my car is looked down upon by all the Manual Transmission, RWD lovers in the world. Sometimes I think we get too caught up in the specs and forget about the car.
I don't know why I typed this, maybe it is because the car I am attached to is being dragged through the coals for not being something that people want it to be.
Maxim_ized - Your admission of acceptance of the CVT will not be appreciated by those folks who stroke their ego by shuffling through the gears. More significantly, because of your ability to adjust to technical progress, I have stricken your name from my list of invitees to our next meeting of the Flat Earth Society.