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I'm really curious how this will play out. Looks like the pump you needed five months ago is still on backorder. At that rate Midas Touch and others may not have a whole lot of options.
I am hoping for the best. At this point Nissan is not giving us much reason to have confidence in them.
13MaximaSV, how many miles did your car have when you traded it if you dont mind me asking
Just over 4k miles........I love cars and have owned Maxima's and Infiniti's for years so I hang around to help plus I am amazed at the issues these late model Max's now have. When I bought mine I never even thought about researching the car, it's a Maxima, a rock............or so i thought
I'm really curious how this will play out. Looks like the pump you needed five months ago is still on backorder. At that rate Midas Touch and others may not have a whole lot of options.
I am hoping for the best. At this point Nissan is not giving us much reason to have confidence in them.
I wish my pump had failed as I would have had them buy the car back as it would have put me over the days needed for the Lemon Law
Ok today was the end of my Maxima fuel pump saga. After two and half weeks without my car I feel lucky. Here's the deal, if this happens to you make sure you demand that your dealer gets you a loaner. My first dealer did not. The second dealer did, the trick...Nissan pays for the loaner while you are waiting for the part. My new dealer said this puts some pressure on Nissan to get your car fixed. Best of luck if any of you are suffering with this problem.
BTW, I had a 2014 Altima S as a loaner. Only 1,500 miles on it, drove like a Buick from the late 80s. Not bad, but not good. Made me love my Max even more!
Ok today was the end of my Maxima fuel pump saga. After two and half weeks without my car I feel lucky. Here's the deal, if this happens to you make sure you demand that your dealer gets you a loaner. My first dealer did not. The second dealer did, the trick...Nissan pays for the loaner while you are waiting for the part. My new dealer said this puts some pressure on Nissan to get your car fixed. Best of luck if any of you are suffering with this problem.
BTW, I had a 2014 Altima S as a loaner. Only 1,500 miles on it, drove like a Buick from the late 80s. Not bad, but not good. Made me love my Max even more!
Great news, any idea if the "new" pump is the same design ?
Did the dealer ( see post below) mention changing to a different type of power steering fluid
Last edited by 13Maximasv; Feb 17, 2014 at 08:56 PM.
I doubt they will change the design of the steering pump. More like they will change the fluid type. Whining in your steering pump in the morning is the pump being stressed. Viscosity of steering fluid is just like that of an engine. The thicker the fluid is at colder weather the more stress your pump takes. If air is in the lines then this would cause cavitation in the pump. Cavitation in a hydraulic pump is very destructive because the air bubbles collapse causing shockwaves grenading your pumps internals.
Having a liquid with increased viscosity helps protect against component wear but if its too viscous it tends to not move as well, giving way to bubble formation in hydraulic fluid. Then your pump takes a dump. <-----I make a funny!!
I doubt they will change the design of the steering pump. More like they will change the fluid type. Whining in your steering pump in the morning is the pump being stressed. Viscosity of steering fluid is just like that of an engine. The thicker the fluid is at colder weather the more stress your pump takes. If air is in the lines then this would cause cavitation in the pump. Cavitation in a hydraulic pump is very destructive because the air bubbles collapse causing shockwaves grenading your pumps internals.
Having a liquid with increased viscosity helps protect against component wear but if its too viscous it tends to not move as well, giving way to bubble formation in hydraulic fluid. Then your pump takes a dump. <-----I make a funny!!
Good info but I have to ask why they didn't just replace the fluid in my car as all my pump was doing was making the whining noise at cold starts and never failed ?
I have to admit I never even heard of using a thinner power steering fluid so I learned something today if that is actually done
Originally Posted by Midas_Touch
spoke to my dealership today and this is what they told me.
they still have no idea when i am going to get my car back. there are no power steering pump units that are available, and to add insult to injury, he says that Nissan has stopped production on the power steering pumps in an effort to "redesign" the part because there have been a lot of failures on the current pump.
I based my redesign question on the comments above
Last edited by 13Maximasv; Feb 17, 2014 at 08:58 PM.
Doing a little research, i found that Nissan participates in a type of arbitration program provided by the BBB for lemon laws in any particular state. Of course in order to take advantage of this program your situation would have to meet the criteria of the lemon laws for your state, and in my state 30 days of my car being in the service department would qualify me. For those of you that may be curious if you meet this criteria, here is the website. http://www.bbb.org/council/programs-...bbb-auto-line/
If i dont have my Max in a week i will be taking advantage of this program.
They wouldn't change just the fluid for something thinner because they are under strict guidance to only replace fluids with approved fluids. That approval list doesn't just change because some pumps went bad. It will change once a certain threshold of pump failure has been reached and engineers retest/redesign because of that threshold (TSB,Recalls).
Out of any given manufactured part up to 10% can be DOA and another 15% can be considered flawed due to manufacturing defects. Most defects are out of Nissans control, processes such as sand casting parts and metal quality are beyond Manufactures control. So this translates to a fudge factor that is already built in before it becomes design flaw.
Now should something like this results in deaths the fudge factor is ignored and immediate investigations can occur. Toyota's had such a defect with the gas peddle issue. I believe human error contributed to that as well.
Anyway, its not because Nissan doesn't believe the consumer it is because this is how a business stays profitable. Replacing everything just because a consumer said so or because it went out would result in major loss in profits. No business can stay soluble replacing every disputed part. That is why not every Snap-on tool carries a lifetime warranty. It sucks I know but put yourself in their shoes, I wouldn't think its fair that the fat kid ate half the Popsicle to decide it was bad. He's fat you know he continued to eat that after the first bite. Dang strait I'm going to prorate his Popsicle return.
Okay back to business this is getting too long now. Lastly the hydraulic fluid used in any hydraulic system is mineral based (mineral oil) best found for hydraulic system use. It has good properties when it compresses and is within contamination tolerances. At times engineers will put additives to enhance properties often at the price of sacrificing properties of the mineral oil itself. High performance steering fluid with heavy additives contaminates really quick etc...
Ok, so now I hope that you have a better grasp on how the process works. I love cars, engineering and quantum physics this is why I write such in depth posts. I deal with this stuff on a daily basis it is very interesting to me.
They wouldn't change just the fluid for something thinner because they are under strict guidance to only replace fluids with approved fluids. That approval list doesn't just change because some pumps went bad. It will change once a certain threshold of pump failure has been reached and engineers retest/redesign because of that threshold (TSB,Recalls).
Out of any given manufactured part up to 10% can be DOA and another 15% can be considered flawed due to manufacturing defects. Most defects are out of Nissans control, processes such as sand casting parts and metal quality are beyond Manufactures control. So this translates to a fudge factor that is already built in before it becomes design flaw.
Now should something like this results in deaths the fudge factor is ignored and immediate investigations can occur. Toyota's had such a defect with the gas peddle issue. I believe human error contributed to that as well.
Anyway, its not because Nissan doesn't believe the consumer it is because this is how a business stays profitable. Replacing everything just because a consumer said so or because it went out would result in major loss in profits. No business can stay soluble replacing every disputed part. That is why not every Snap-on tool carries a lifetime warranty. It sucks I know but put yourself in their shoes, I wouldn't think its fair that the fat kid ate half the Popsicle to decide it was bad. He's fat you know he continued to eat that after the first bite. Dang strait I'm going to prorate his Popsicle return.
Okay back to business this is getting too long now. Lastly the hydraulic fluid used in any hydraulic system is mineral based (mineral oil) best found for hydraulic system use. It has good properties when it compresses and is within contamination tolerances. At times engineers will put additives to enhance properties often at the price of sacrificing properties of the mineral oil itself. High performance steering fluid with heavy additives contaminates really quick etc...
Ok, so now I hope that you have a better grasp on how the process works. I love cars, engineering and quantum physics this is why I write such in depth posts. I deal with this stuff on a daily basis it is very interesting to me.
Very informative, thanks
Maybe Lou can chime in on if they used different fluid in his pump and maybe even give us the model number off his receipt to see if it matches the OEM part #.
I'm guessing if they changed the fluid they would tell him in case he ever has to add any in the future, correct ?
Wouldn't Nissan also release a TSB to inform the dealers ?
I would be really interested in knowing if Nissan changed parts manufacturers around 2011. From what I read here the 2009 is the best year of the 7th gen Maxima and I find that VERY ODD.
I never replaced a power steering pump in my life and I had plenty of POS (new) GM and Ford cars from the 80's and early 90's. I used to joke that these cars leaked fluids they didn't even have, lol
TSB may come out if enough of those pumps go out. I know that they take into consideration condition of failure. An example would be you selling glass cups and finding out that they are breaking when it has water in it and its below freezing. You know that the cause was clearly the conditions.
The problem with our vehicles is that they are built for all-terrain in a way. (No, I'm not saying your car can go off-roading or fly) The fluids in our cars have an operation range, temp, air purity, duty cycle etc. Metals and building materials are the same way. Sand casted parts grow weak and brittle in extreme conditions. Most every engine is sand casted along with water pumps, alternator cases, A/C condensers, valve covers, Transmission cases and a slew of other parts.
The industry tries to design engine components and vehicles to suit all sorts of environments. In the end you can only be so universal but you can't predict all conditions during engineering.
So will they issue a TSB? In my opinion maybe not at all because this year especially, record low temperatures have hit the entire country. They take all these little things we don't think matter into consideration before a recall or a TSB is issued.
I'm not sure if motor companies still sell a winter/cold package on their vehicles? I do know that German motor companies take the extreme cold into consideration when they manufacture vehicles for their own country. They have different thermostat ranges, lighter oil specs usually all start with 0w, different tire rubber and even have eliminated regular unleaded from their pumps. I had issues with a brand new bmw rental when I drove it down to Palermo, Italy. Sucker would get near overheating if it wasn't moving fast enough. Once I was back in the northern part of Germany car didn't have the problem anymore. Told the rental company about it and they said "you should have told us you were going to the southern part of Italy we would have given you an American vehicle". I still got a hefty discount for my troubles so it was all good.
I'm not trying to side with the dealership I've just worked at one on receiving end as the mechanic. I do remember many times just telling my Ford manager "I wish you would just issue a TSB for this issue already or a recall"(talking about many common problems) he was just as frustrated with many of the situations as I was. In the end we all have to wait for an engineer and a specialist to evaluate the problems. We even got a seminar on this whole process as it was required for quality control at the time.
I hated telling my customers bad news I would get blamed for it then I would get flamed on my customer surveys. Wow! It got a bit personal there for a sec and now I'm on a novel again. Cheer up my brothers it could be worse you could be peddling a bike. I hope that I have helped understanding the process a bit more. I just know that I would hate being the engineer on the other end. I hate wearing knee pads!
So will they issue a TSB? In my opinion maybe not at all because this year especially, record low temperatures have hit the entire country. They take all these little things we don't think matter into consideration before a recall or a TSB is issued.
If the dealer put different power steering fluid in the car wouldn't they notify the owner ?
If Nissan is saying a thinner fluid can be used wouldn't it notify the dealers somehow, possibly a TSB?
My pump had the issues last winter and although it's been cold winter all over parts of the country never experience temps like the upper Midwest does every year.
While Nissan may want to blame the cold weather I don't buy that especially since my pump made the noise at 15 degrees and below which is an average winter day any year in SOUTHERN Minnesota.
Thanks for the info, hopefully the guys here waiting on pumps get them soon and the problem stays fixed
Last edited by 13Maximasv; Feb 18, 2014 at 11:12 AM.
To answer your fluid question different fluids can be approved for power steering fluid. Some fluids even exceed the standards set by Nissan. Your dealer is required to meet or exceed those standards set by the Manufacturer.
This is an example of different types of viscosity oils still suitable for the same vehicle. That round stamp on the left is the standards the oil should meet or exceed. The Standard is CF-4/SH you would go to the auto parts store pick up a bottle of oil and look at the stamp on the bottle. It will always tell you which standards it meets or exceeds. (Picture NOT a Nissan Chart)
As you can see you can run a different viscosity of oil suitable for the conditions. However, that viscosity must meet or exceed the standard on that round stamp. They have a similar chart for Brake fluid, power steering and antifreeze. They use to put the different types of suitable oil weight right down in your owners manual. Due to many people messing up standards and weight and federal mandates they removed this and will more than likely always go with the thinnest oil available as running it will give the best gas mileage possible. Manufactures started going to thinner oil to bump their gas mileage figures up for federal mandates not because it offers better protection.
Anyway, I hope you get what I am saying about the dealer can put in any type of fluid that meets or exceeds the standard. You can also see by the chart what I am showing you use to be right in your own owners manual. The temperature changes, the fluid should as well. There is no magic "fluid all" that hits the mark for all temperatures. They have tried but ultimately the results are not even close to accurate. Oils like 0w-65 or 0w-50 are a sham I know because I test them with a viscometer results are never even close.
So don't be disheartened if you see reliability go down the drain. The parts may not have even changed at all. The fluids have and that is because the Government is putting the hurt on Manufactures to bring up MPG and efficiency if the engine size and transmissions are the same but the ratings change they had to come from somewhere. It is usually at the cost of using the thinnest stuff out there or the thickest to try and meet the demand without redesigning the entire engine design.
Well...another novel completed. Just remember in the end it all comes out in the laundry. Yes the answer is the consumer always pays for it in the end. You will notice more and more wonderful nuggets of truth will disappeared from your owners manual. I get crap for thinking about changing my own oil now, doesn't matter what type of fluid it is. I hope this helps you. I know I know I type a lot.
To answer your fluid question different fluids can be approved for power steering fluid. Some fluids even exceed the standards set by Nissan. Your dealer is required to meet or exceed those standards set by the Manufacturer.
This is an example of different types of viscosity oils still suitable for the same vehicle. That round stamp on the left is the standards the oil should meet or exceed. The Standard is CF-4/SH you would go to the auto parts store pick up a bottle of oil and look at the stamp on the bottle. It will always tell you which standards it meets or exceeds. (Picture NOT a Nissan Chart)
As you can see you can run a different viscosity of oil suitable for the conditions. However, that viscosity must meet or exceed the standard on that round stamp. They have a similar chart for Brake fluid, power steering and antifreeze. They use to put the different types of suitable oil weight right down in your owners manual. Due to many people messing up standards and weight and federal mandates they removed this and will more than likely always go with the thinnest oil available as running it will give the best gas mileage possible. Manufactures started going to thinner oil to bump their gas mileage figures up for federal mandates not because it offers better protection.
Anyway, I hope you get what I am saying about the dealer can put in any type of fluid that meets or exceeds the standard. You can also see by the chart what I am showing you use to be right in your own owners manual. The temperature changes, the fluid should as well. There is no magic "fluid all" that hits the mark for all temperatures. They have tried but ultimately the results are not even close to accurate. Oils like 0w-65 or 0w-50 are a sham I know because I test them with a viscometer results are never even close.
So don't be disheartened if you see reliability go down the drain. The parts may not have even changed at all. The fluids have and that is because the Government is putting the hurt on Manufactures to bring up MPG and efficiency if the engine size and transmissions are the same but the ratings change they had to come from somewhere. It is usually at the cost of using the thinnest stuff out there or the thickest to try and meet the demand without redesigning the entire engine design.
Well...another novel completed. Just remember in the end it all comes out in the laundry. Yes the answer is the consumer always pays for it in the end. You will notice more and more wonderful nuggets of truth will disappeared from your owners manual. I get crap for thinking about changing my own oil now, doesn't matter what type of fluid it is. I hope this helps you. I know I know I type a lot.
I guess I still don't understand why the dealer ordered me a new pump instead of just changing fluid as the power steering worked fine it just made a whine on cold starts.
I also see no reason for a month back order on a part that was already designed and built.
Does PS fluid effect gas mileage ? I never heard that.
I gave up on this car at 4k miles and traded it for 37X but still hang around here as I had so many issues ( new short block to to a bad bearing, power steering, windshield not installed correctly, every rattle know to man, power outlets not working etc,etc) I can sometimes help plus I now crossed the Rogue off our possible winter car list since it uses this same PS pump.
Last edited by 13Maximasv; Feb 18, 2014 at 02:14 PM.
Ok, I'm back. With a power steering pump whining they wouldn't just replace the fluid. If you hear noise and your not stressing the pump then that is an instant replace. Extreme stressing on purpose is like cranking your steering wheel all the way to the left or the right until it whines. Your rack and pinion is at its limit best to back off if you hear that. If your not stressing it then like I stated before instant replacement.
Most steering pumps are a Vain type Hydraulic pump which are turned by the serpentine belt or in many cases now electronically driven. Either way your steering pump is parasitic in nature either using electricity to drive the pump or directly belt driven. The rotor type mechanism uses this energy to spin like a Ferris wheel and on the ends are vains which act as like a pressure seal. The whining sound comes from small bubbles passing through the vains. Air bubbles will compress and expand rapidly causing a shockwave destroying a pump or damaging components with pitting. Having pitting in your pump makes the situation worse as it introduces little air bubbles of its own. Once a pump has been damaged there is no fix other than to rebuild it or scrap it for a core.
As I also mentioned before the pump is parasitic in nature and being such takes energy with either a belt or electricity from an energy source that is driven by gas. Alternator or belt you pick your poison I guess. Having an efficient steering pump system can help you save money on fuel.
Ok, I'm back. With a power steering pump whining they wouldn't just replace the fluid. If you hear noise and your not stressing the pump then that is an instant replace. Extreme stressing on purpose is like cranking your steering wheel all the way to the left or the right until it whines. Your rack and pinion is at its limit best to back off if you hear that. If your not stressing it then like I stated before instant replacement.
Most steering pumps are a Vain type Hydraulic pump which are turned by the serpentine belt or in many cases now electronically driven. Either way your steering pump is parasitic in nature either using electricity to drive the pump or directly belt driven. The rotor type mechanism uses this energy to spin like a Ferris wheel and on the ends are vains which act as like a pressure seal. The whining sound comes from small bubbles passing through the vains. Air bubbles will compress and expand rapidly causing a shockwave destroying a pump or damaging components with pitting. Having pitting in your pump makes the situation worse as it introduces little air bubbles of its own. Once a pump has been damaged there is no fix other than to rebuild it or scrap it for a core.
As I also mentioned before the pump is parasitic in nature and being such takes energy with either a belt or electricity from an energy source that is driven by gas. Alternator or belt you pick your poison I guess. Having an efficient steering pump system can help you save money on fuel.
My noise was just a 5 second WHINE at cold startup ( below 15 degrees. There was no noise when turning the wheel
What I did notice was regardless of how cold it was ( -20 F some days) if I started the car and it made the WHINE noise then turned it off immediately and restarted it didn't make the noise
After reading your posts I now have an idea why that happened as I believe even though the pump was cold it was partially lubricated
It also crossed my mind that the pump got damaged removing and installing it on the new Short block.
Through all my problems the dealers service dept and Nissan consumer where awesome, so much so I would still buy another Nissan
Thanks Again !
Last edited by 13Maximasv; Feb 18, 2014 at 07:55 PM.
I'm happy I could help I guess? Being a mechanic for so long then sitting on the engineering side and participating in design has help clarify things for me. Anyway, I hope your new purchase is enjoyable regardless of the bad, if you love cars you love cars and if you can tow the family/friends in a vehicle you like to drive then why not. I honestly don't see myself driving anything else now.
I haven't heard anything from the other power steering "victims", anyone have an update as to wether or not they got their power steering pump replaced?
I haven't heard anything from the other power steering "victims", anyone have an update as to wether or not they got their power steering pump replaced?
I got my car back with pump replaced after 25 days.
Girlfriend just called that the car turns on, goes into gear but steering wheel won't budge, going to assume PSP maybe the problem. Getting it towed to dealer right now, let's see what they say. She drives it all the time so not sure if it had the whining upon start up but no issues prior or codes thrown. This is covered under warranty correct?
I have a 2011 sv. I backed out turned left steering got stiff. Then my car shut off. Think it might be sumthing with power steering. It was 85 degrees out. Dont know the problem, any help?
Hi, My power steering oil pump went out two weeks ago on Nissan Maxima 2014 with 67K on it. It was cold weather around -27 (Canada, Ottawa). Few days later I was trying to add dextron oil and rev my engine and oil was airing under the hood like fog. I realized that it is something wrong with my pump sealing. I added more oil and it stopped but no power. I was driving for two weeks to work.
Visited Nissan dealership to fix this problem but they said that warranty on power steering is 60Ks only or 3 years. My car has 67K. So, I am not eligible for repair under warranty. I asked how much will be to buy an oil pump from them and they asked $780. I smiled and went home and ordered it for $90 only from eBay.
Today I put my hands into my car but I was not able to pull out the oil pump. I was able to take out 6 bolts (12 mm) so pump is free now, but I cannot take it out. It looks like there are many parts should be taken off in order to take pump out and to put a new one. I looked what can be taken off and it almost half of everything around engine below: exhaust pipes, power-train parts, etc. Bolts are so difficult to take off, if they would be a little rusted then it is impossible to take them off. I used my nails to rotate bolts to take them off. There is very limited space.
I am looking for a guide on how to take oil pump off. There is one big bolt at the back of the pump and I don't know what tool can be used to take it off. It looks like an engine should be brought down out of the car.
Any suggestions. How dealers do this?
Last edited by vasyland1; Mar 18, 2016 at 07:31 PM.
Thanks. I found these pdfs. It helped but I did in a different way and was able to pull out a pump by removing belt tension pulley first just below pump - it has spring inside. I took apart my pump and found that during cold the body of the pump squeezed and locked internal steel parts together and scratched small plates that stopped going out during normal work. Everything else including sealing is ok. To summarize:
1. Took off a wheel and plastic covers
2. Took off belt
3. Took off tension pulley and then took of pulley base (two bolts 12mm)
4. Took off three bolts on the pump under pump pulley, and two on the pump back
5. Disconnected sensor wires from high pressure hose
6. Took high pressure bolt (24mm)
7. Took off oil reservoir
8. Pump dropped down and I have to rotate it to pull it out of the car.
So far so good. I think the pump is fixable using sand paper to polish and restore free movements of small plates inside. I have a new OEM pump but I am eager to restore mine. I will keep updated.
Last edited by vasyland1; Mar 18, 2016 at 07:33 PM.
is it 6k or 36k?
