No Shift_CVT

I decided my next mod was going to be a pulley. From my search it appears that everyone has used the Stillen pulley. Has anyone installed the 2J Racing pulley? Just curious...
http://www.2j-racing.com/pulleys/max...ce-pulley.html

dr_2010SV

Probably not. Per the website it says 01-04 years......?

Quick Overview:
IN STOCK NOW! 2JR introduces our lightweight race pulley for the VQ35 Maxima and Infiniti I35, 01-04 years.

No Shift_CVT

Thanks for catching that...I mis read it. I was purchasing one for my Altima before I got the Max and assumed they made one for the 7th gen. Stillen it is then...

dr_2010SV

Yeah just the Stillen for now.
I actually have one but haven't had the time to install it yet.

No Shift_CVT

From what I read it seems to make a difference on the low end of the rpm's/acceleration. I wouldn't mind gaining a little back from what I lost adding heavy 20" wheels... Form over function... Lol

dr_2010SV

It's like a performance catch22. Your extremely limited with power add-on's and at the same time it would ruin the purpose of owning the car by stripping features (weight) from it.
Live and love the car for what it is, not for what it isn't.

MaximaGuido09c

I would only advise to put on the pulley from Stillen. Although I have heard positive and negative reviews with that as well.

No Shift_CVT

Please share your negatives. From the threads I read (I did not read every one), the common negatives were with power steering at low speeds and audio power issues with larger sound systems.

Tramel

I have the Stillen Pulley install i love it no doubt. better response. Yes power steering feels a lil bit tighter but you want be able to tell once you drive the car for a while. Sort of with a new add on you will loose the feeling of knowning it was there. (Mind Game) Beside that i have three tvs, two 12s amp and cap no problem with the stereo at all with the new pulley. However i did get the grounding kit just in case and it's still fine. the response is nice with this mod.

gravkillz

The big negative about any lightweight pulley is that the entire rotating assembly needs to be machine balanced with the pulley. If you don't balance the rotating assembly your crank bearings tend to wear out prematurely. You need some kind of harmonic balancer on the end to cancel-out rotating assembly vibration.

Ghozt

ive had the pulley for years no prob. according to Stillen the VQ is internally balanced and the pulley itself is the harmonic dampener.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

The 2j pulley will not work on a 7th gen, which uses a 7 rib belt. The 2j pulley is made for the 1st generation of FWD VQ35 which use a 6 rib belt and a separate power steering belt.

Racerbox77

I know underdrive pulleys work. It's proven. But is the Stillen pulley any smaller than the stock one or is it just lighter? If it's just the weight then it's a complete waste of money. You'd be lucky to get any measurable HP from it.
I hope it's smaller in diameter and wonder how much smaller.

Ross2893

It's smaller and lighter. That's why Stillen sells it with their own belt..

gravkillz

A harmonic dampener isn't solid it must have something to cancel out crankshaft harmonics. The VQ is internally balanced but the elastomer-type dampener has give and is able to cancel out harmonics. Solid type pulleys aren't elastomer-type or fluid-type. Crankshaft harmonics will eventually destroy your engine if not canceled out. I've replaced many engines where the lightened crankshaft pulley was the culprit. I still have bearings from many of these engines. You could try this company

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/

I have found these type of pulleys to be a solid investment for OEM engines or built. I'm not here to offend anyone I've just seen to many engines go this way.

Ghozt

So why wouldn't this car have a harmonic dampener stock then? I didn't remove anything when I had the pulley installed, we just swapped pulleys and belts. Stock pulley is very solid as well.

Racerbox77

^^^ thought so. Without getting larger pulleys for the main accessories I don't think that the smaller crank pulley will give you much. Unless it's a lot smaller than stock but then you'd have charging and cooling issues.

On Foxbody Mustangs years ago we would put underdrive pulleys on and gain over a tenth in the quarter mile. So about 10 HP to the wheels. But that was a 3 pulley upgrade not just the crank.

trailer54

This.

gravkillz

Every car has a harmonic dampener installed stock. The stock crank pulley is the harmonic dampener. The stock OEM components however are a single elastomer build type and aren't designed to exceed factory HP/TQ levels or RPM range. Removing the stock redline or MPH speed limits makes the stock pulleys fail very quickly. I use to sell a lot of solid type pulleys until I experienced numerous failures I paid for dearly. I switched to ATI and have never had a re-occurrence of my early mistakes. Here have a read...

http://www.atiracing.com/products/da...mper_dinan.htm

Ghozt

So if the stock crank pulley is the harmonic dampener, why wouldn't Stillen be able to design theirs to be the same? I can show you a pic of the OEM one if you'd like, it is a solid object exactly as the aftermarket one is there is nothing special about it.

Also I'm not referring to removing the redline or speed limiter at all, or talking about doing that in conjunction with a stock pulley. I'm not entirely sure how that information is relevant to this conversation.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

This thread brings me lulz in the am

gravkillz

This is how our crank pulley looks like...

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/mamqbkg5ey9wgpi/jqjcy5AZgg

Looks solid like you said Ghozt.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/7d8v1b0kx96yn7r/Db58yjcuur

I went back and tried to wax in yellow the elastomer layer. The yellow ring layer is the single elastomer which has been pressed together. This layer is the the dampening layer. So yes Ghozt it is solid as in pressed together.

http://www.stillen.com/product/pulle...pu4nvqune8o5s4

This is a Stillen piece which I'm assuming your referring to. It is one solid piece of billet aluminum it has no elastomer layer pressed in.

The relevance of what I'm trying to say about this subject is, not wise to eliminate the elastomer dampening layer of your stock pulley. It changes the harmonics. The stillen also changes the ratio at which your OEM components turn.

I must have the wrong pulley in mind? Are you referring to the alternator pulley?

Racerbox77

Without that rubber type material in there it allows more vibration or harmonics to transfer to the crank journals.
I know they have been making these for a while so not sure if anyone's had issues with them but Gravkillz is right it's not the best design.

Team STILLEN

This discussion again.. ok let's get into it.

The VQ engine is internally balanced, and the factory pulley is not a harmonic dampener, and yes, it has a elastomer ring in the stock pulley, but not to balance the engine. The ring is there to help with NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) associated with the stock cast steel pulley. You'll also notice that there are 2 drill marks on the side of the stock steel pulley, helping to balance the pulley out, as castings are no where near as precise and accurate as CNC machining.

So why wouldn't the factory use CNC-machined aluminum pulleys from the factory? Because they are significantly more expensive to manufacture. There are a bunch of little things no average person looks at with the STILLEN lightweight pullies, such as the 304 stainless steel sleeves pressed onto the main seal contact point for longevity, retaining the stock timing marks, keyways precision broached.. with the entire design being CAD drawn to be 100% balanced to extremely strict tolerances.

The biggest comment we get from owners is that the engine "feels smoother" alongside of the performance impact. If you're interested in the gains from being lightweight to underdrive, 70% of the gains come from being lightweight, the rest from reduction of the accessories draw. This has proven effective without introducing other issues from the alternator, A/C and power steering.

Thousands upon thousands of pulleys have been sold with NO issues as you describe, and going back to the 350Z world, hundreds of thousands of miles on vehicles with no issues. The problems just don't exist.

Can you have issues with improper installation? Absolutely. Can you improperly tighten them and the bolt come loose? Absolutely. Just like any part, if not installed correctly, bad things can happen. I can't, however, recall any STILLEN customer in the last 5+ years having even an install issue that might have damaged the main seal.

Unfortunately the points you're making are theory.. which I'm sure get people thinking.. and that's great, but the ultimate test is out in the wild, and the masses disprove your incorrect theories on the VQ motor in relation to these pulleys.

Racerbox77

70% of the gains come from being lighter? I figured it would have been opposite and most coming from under driving the accessories. I've read a couple detailed articles from magazines stating that a lightweight crank pulley had very little impact on power at the wheel.
Any true increased power numbers from this pulley?

Ross2893

Well I plan to make my next mod the Stillen UDP so it's good to know that these theories are just that, theories.. no need to scare people guys..

Team STILLEN

It's similar to the function of a lightweight flywheel or putting on lighter wheels. If the engine has to work less to get all of the moving parts turning, that results in more HP to the wheels. No additional HP from the motor, but turns into power free'd up and delivered to the ground. 8-10HP would be a reasonable number to assume gained when installing.

Here's a detailed post from a Z forum where a member independently tests and goes into big details, netted 5+ whp.. http://www.the370z.com/75576-post1.html

Every platform is a little different.

gravkillz

There is no theory here, I doubt you have the accelerometers, vibration consoles, and laser technologies to sufficiently determine your claims. If it were so then you would cover damages to engines due to torsional vibration damage.

I do small custom fabrications for the calibration industry. My main job is performing calibrations on all industries equipment. Every calibration that is performed should have traceability to some standard. We use NIST standards in our laboratory. This practice of calibration is called Metrology, this is no theory. I run many calibrations on rotational assemblies which rely on exact mapping of harmonics generated by torsional vibration. I also calibrate the equipment and sensors that measure harmonics, thermal expansion, frequency, amplitude etc.

Your correct in say the VQ engine is internally balanced but the crankshaft will still resonate when every cylinder fires. Regardless if it is internally or externally balanced, vibrations and harmonics will always exist. Also, to contribute to the vibration the transmissions rotating assembly is also connected to the engine via the clutch/flywheel/TQconverter depending if its auto or manual. Dampener doesn't cancel out vibrations it dampens them. Elastomer dampeners have been the best solution to torsional vibration.

Elastomer wheels are only used as dampeners. If the wheel has an elastomer ring its primary purpose is dampening. CNC machined parts will not eliminate harmful vibrations it just means it was CNC machined. This is also why we have engine mounts and transmission mounts made of similar polymers.

We calibrate most standards to +/- .000001 for aerospace standards that's the lowest end. I work hand and hand with engineers to determine their standards tolerances.

Bottom line is that a dealership will not cover damages due to resonant vibrations if something other than what was designed for their engine is on there. I won't go telling an engineer that the standards they have established is null and void. It is certainly no theory it is a very precise science.

Will it make you feel better to say that what I do is wrong? I calibrate your fuel pumps. I guess that is theory too.

Ghozt

Hey Gravkillz, let me know if you find a thread anywhere showing that a VQ motor had problems resulting from an UD or lightweight pulley. So far I can't find any.

No Shift_CVT

Agreed!

gravkillz

Considering that damage from a pulley looks exactly like bearing failure, you could say that any thread with bearing failure that ran an UD lightweight pulley qualifies. Ghozt, I'm not attacking you nor am I saying not to buy a product. What I am saying is that by putting a solid pulley on eliminates dampening thats designed to make your engine last. The results are premature bearing failure as torsional vibration doesn't rip off your pulley.
Turbochargers also fail prematurely because of torsional vibration often called shuttering.

Take a look at my original post I said it was a negative about a solid pulley. The pulley isn't the only part on the vehicle designed to eliminate torsional vibration either. The pulley eliminates some vibrations not all of them. It is designed to help your engine last.

Not everyone has access to a Raydyne balance machine, so how many would even know what their failure is from? It's not like I'm making up terms out of thin air either. Its simple pros and cons. A pro is you eliminate spinning assembly weight gain some HP. Con you also sacrifice dampening which is designed to dampen torsional vibration which is bad for engine bearings.

Am I wrong for making true statements? Am I wrong for being a scientist and believing in science?

Racerbox77

I agree with you Gravkillz.

But my car is leased so if the pulley gave you 10 HP I'd buy it but 5 HP on a dyno done on different days....

gravkillz

For those of you that need references http://papers.sae.org/2008-01-1213/ There are various other articles put out by the SAE on this matter. They also make the standards for the manufactures oils and various other engineering practices.

I apologize for wronging anyone, I shouldn't have dumped anything in the first place. I'm in the wrong for wording things poorly.

Ghozt

So what is it exactly that you believe is on the OEM pulley that the Stillen one is missing? I'm looking at my OEM pulley and it's solid metal. We can discuss the engineering behind it all day, but I still don't see what you're talking about that you think the OEM pulley has that the Stillen one doesn't. Seems like if the OEM one had elastomer there would be some type of rubbery substance on it, as opposed to being solid metal throughout.

gravkillz

PART# 12303-JA11A is the part I'm assuming your talking about. An elastomer polymer ring isn't always visible. These crank pulleys are often pressed together. Elastomer polymer isn't the only materials available for dampening. There is fluid and ring types as well. There maybe more types but I don't work with many other than OEM which consist mostly of Elastomer polymer/ring and polymer. The pulley I have off of a maxima is still off of a VQ35DE its not a 2013 but it still has a elastomer polymer ring.

Internally or externally balanced engines regardless of being perfectly balanced will produce vibrations from cylinder firing. The internally balanced engine doesn't need the crank pulley to be part of the balancing as the crank pulley and flywheel is assumed to be perfectly balanced. The external balanced engines require both the flywheel and crank pulley during balancing.

I get what is trying to be said here, Internally balanced so it doesn't matter. External or internally balanced engines still produce torsional vibration. You change the weight, mass, material on a rotating assembly it will act differently than designed.

Ghozt

Sounds good, I'll let you know if I have a problem been good for several years now.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

I should have known better than to venture into the 7th gen section.

Racerbox77

To sum it up the stock pulley is best for your car.
BUT the Stillen pulley will give you a little bit of horsepower and there is no documented cases of it hurting your engine.

So if you want to spend $200 for a pulley and belt for maybe 5 HP it's an option.

Ross2893

Better than spending $1549 for a AAM Blue Tip Exhaust and get only 12 Horses.

Ghozt

Some of these guys spend close to $1000 just on interior/exterior LEDs and HID bulbs. There are worse things to spend your money on than a sick sounding exhaust.