jgilbs

Has anyone else run into this? Walked into a Nissan dealership with numbers pre-negotiated, fully intending to pull the trigger. While I was trying to haggle them down a bit more, a finance manager came over and insisted that I sign a form that he claimed was for OFAC, to ensure I am not a terrorist/money launderer. This form was very clearly a credit application. I declined to provide my SSN, and clearly told him he is not authorized to run a credit check. However, I did foolishly sign it and included my address and DOB. He said that without my SSN, he wouldnt be able to run my credit even if he wanted to (which I later learned is false).

At any rate, they refused my counter offer, so I did end up walking out. Honestly, I thought I was getting a great deal to begin with -basically $34k base before TTL for a brand new Maxima Platinum - with tax and all add ons, would be around $38.5k (in Washington State so tax is insane) and I would have signed on it. However, the whole credit check thing really skeeved me out - it feels like I was lied to and violated.

I went home and immediately checked my credit report, and there is no hard pull on there...yet. I am thinking of waiting a few days to see if it shows up and if it does making things difficult for them. Or I can go back tomorrow and request that they sign an addendum, affirming they never pulled credit, and revoking any permission to do so that was granted in previous documents.

Anyone else have this experience where they try to pull your credit, even though you have cash? Am I overreacting? Again, I am actually about ready to pull the trigger, but if I was lied to, then I would go somewhere else.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Cash or credit, this is normal. Part of Patriot Act. But, I believe you can stand firm and get out of it. Will probably need to show multiple forms of ID to prove who you are etc.

A google search turns up other people in your exact situation.

jgilbs

So I normally would have said hell no, but I just moved here from Illinois, so my license is a paper one, and my checks are from Chicago so I TOTALLY understand that can be seen as a red flag.

However, if they were trying to comply with PATRIOT (more specifically OFAC requirements), they can easily search that here: https://sanctionssearch.ofac.treas.gov - note the form doesnt require SSN. However, oddly enough they actually DO require a SSN for cash transactions over $9,999. So by letting me sign this form without an SSN, it seems like the only purpose would be for a credit check (which I later learned they can do). if they had explained and said something like "Hey, you seem like a great guy, but its policy with out of state licenses, here's a form specifically for that" I'd get it. But it's the fact that the form was clearly a credit application.

lightonthehill

In olden days, as a person who always pays cash with any purchase, I would have walked out at the first hint of a credit check. But times have changed. The threat of terrorism is real, but trying to guard against it does take away from our privacy. I have not faced the situation you did because I have dealt only with my same dealer for over twenty years, and am friends with most folks there, including the owner and, more importantly, the service manager.

But, probably more important, I have had the same local mailing address since the 1980s, as well as lots of ID info. I know they are not checking my credit reports, as I have had them frozen at all three credit reporting agencies since the late 1990s. My son retired as Director of Computer Operations from Equifax ten years ago in order to take a similar job at the CDC in Atlanta. He tries to keep me abreast of what is going on with credit scores, etc, but, being a cash only person, I don't pay as much attention to what he is saying as I should.

But I always balk at furnishing a credit check or my SS# at any place at any time. Every day we read of another hack at another organization where they have had the SS#s and other personal info of millions of innocent folks stolen. Having this info spread everywhere is totally insane. For Medicare to be using our SS# as our official ID is so ridiculous as to be criminal. All we can do is be careful in this very dangerous world.

RickSmith

Interesting read about IRS Form 8300, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business.

Form 8300 requires providing the Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) of the person providing the cash. If the business is unable to obtain the Taxpayer Identification Number of a customer making a cash payment of over $10,000, should the business file Form 8300 anyway?

Yes, to fail to file the Form 8300 is prohibited in this situation. However a filer may be able to avoid penalties when the customer refuses to provide a TIN by showing that its failure to obtain the TIN is reasonable under circumstances more fully described in 26 CFR 301.6724-1(e). At a minimum:
The business should request the TIN at the time of the transaction. If the person providing the cash refuses to provide the TIN, the business should inform the person required to provide the TIN that he or she is subject to a $50 penalty imposed by the Internal Revenue Service under section 6723 [26 USCS § 6723] if he or she fails to furnish his or her TIN;
Maintain contemporaneous records showing the solicitation was properly made and provide such contemporaneous records to IRS upon request,
Accompany the incomplete filed Form by a statement explaining why the TIN is not included.
If a TIN is not received as a result of the initial solicitation (at the time of the transaction) the first annual solicitation must be made on or before December 31 of the year in which the account was opened (transaction occurred) or January 31 of the following year for accounts opened in the preceding December following the same procedures.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small...dealership-qas

Mason Hatcher

You were going to use real cash, not a cashiers check?

jgilbs

I was open to whatever method they thought had the least risk to them, but we did not get that far.

jgilbs

The interesting part is that they werent actually requiring my TIN, just Name, address, and DOB which further leads credence to the fact they were trying to run credit.

04BlackMaxx

Who uses paper currency these days to buy anything anyway, its going the way of the dinosaur...what did you expect to happen when trying to buy a car with all that cash? They want to make they aren't accepting proceeds from trafficking narcotics to sell a car.

jgilbs

You're reading very narrowly into the situation. "Cash" is a term that simply means it will not be financed, so the dealer gets paid directly by me the buyer, rather than by a bank. The actual form of payment was to be discussed - personal check, cashiers check, hell even a credit card. Given the fact we had not yet even agreed on a method of transfer, it was super sketchy that they wanted to run my credit.

04BlackMaxx

Ok, I thought you were walking in with a suitcase of 100bills and wondering what the problem was.

jgilbs

I actually did want to try just to say I did it, but I figured people would be suspicious! Also, I'm from Chicago, and walking around with that kind of cash is the quickest way to be relieved of that cash!