Another 3.5 up and running
05-12-2005, 10:48 AM
#41
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
The used an HKS unit VPRO or CONV, I'm not sure.
One of those has a DBW ability, but you're 100% sure they converted to cable?
One of those has a DBW ability, but you're 100% sure they converted to cable?
05-12-2005, 05:22 PM
#46
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
I mounted my cable bracket solidly on the intake manifold. Flip your TB around so the cable bracket faces the front of the car, and not the firewall. Then I took two 1" wide metal plates, pried them around, pierced a few holes, and welded them together so they form a very solid "L" shaped bracket.
The throttle is crazy is first, so much that I had trouble pressing the pedal gently enough to go smooth. 2nd is much smoother, but still jerky. Even with a non-working knock sensor the torque is
we're just gonna have to get used to it. 3.5 torque + cable-driven TB in a sub 3000 lbs car= crazy low-end.
But you should really make a bracket that's attached to the engine. Even with my super stiff motor mounts, I'd rather attach that bracket to the intake manifold, where it belongs.
The throttle is crazy is first, so much that I had trouble pressing the pedal gently enough to go smooth. 2nd is much smoother, but still jerky. Even with a non-working knock sensor the torque is
we're just gonna have to get used to it. 3.5 torque + cable-driven TB in a sub 3000 lbs car= crazy low-end.But you should really make a bracket that's attached to the engine. Even with my super stiff motor mounts, I'd rather attach that bracket to the intake manifold, where it belongs.
05-12-2005, 05:36 PM
#47
Interesting, I think one reason my throttle is so jerky is because when I let the clutch out, I can sort of feel the gas pedal "tighten" which makes the throttle more touchy.
I'm thinking about adding a spring in front of the TB lever to increase the tension of the pedal... Anyone think that will help?
There is so much torque on this motor... Tap the gas in 1st and you chirp like crazy!
I'm thinking about adding a spring in front of the TB lever to increase the tension of the pedal... Anyone think that will help?
There is so much torque on this motor... Tap the gas in 1st and you chirp like crazy!
05-15-2005, 02:47 PM
#48
3.5 swap vs s/c
Anyone do a cost/benefit comparison between supercharging a 3.0L and swapping a 3.5 into a 4th Gen?
I'm especially interested in:
Longevity/reliability (I would assume a swapped-in 3.5 would last longer than a blown 3.0L),
Overall parts/labor cost for install (I would assume supercharging the 3.0L VQ would cost less) and
Increase in power output (comparing the 3.5 to a 3.0L boosted at highest safe psi without modded internals)
Both of them seem like a full-time job to maintain... The 3.5 would seem easier to have inspected by a mechanic...
A blown Max can work with pretty much everything else stock (including an automatic transmission), while the 3.5 requires a manual tranny, throttle control mechanism, and ECU swap (among other things)
I am considering one of these two routes. I currently have a 99 with an auto. Any input, guys?
I'm especially interested in:
Longevity/reliability (I would assume a swapped-in 3.5 would last longer than a blown 3.0L),
Overall parts/labor cost for install (I would assume supercharging the 3.0L VQ would cost less) and
Increase in power output (comparing the 3.5 to a 3.0L boosted at highest safe psi without modded internals)
Both of them seem like a full-time job to maintain... The 3.5 would seem easier to have inspected by a mechanic...
A blown Max can work with pretty much everything else stock (including an automatic transmission), while the 3.5 requires a manual tranny, throttle control mechanism, and ECU swap (among other things)
I am considering one of these two routes. I currently have a 99 with an auto. Any input, guys?
05-15-2005, 03:11 PM
#49
Originally Posted by RichMax
Anyone do a cost/benefit comparison between supercharging a 3.0L and swapping a 3.5 into a 4th Gen?
I'm especially interested in:
Longevity/reliability (I would assume a swapped-in 3.5 would last longer than a blown 3.0L),
Overall parts/labor cost for install (I would assume supercharging the 3.0L VQ would cost less) and
Increase in power output (comparing the 3.5 to a 3.0L boosted at highest safe psi without modded internals)
Both of them seem like a full-time job to maintain... The 3.5 would seem easier to have inspected by a mechanic...
A blown Max can work with pretty much everything else stock (including an automatic transmission), while the 3.5 requires a manual tranny, throttle control mechanism, and ECU swap (among other things)
I am considering one of these two routes. I currently have a 99 with an auto. Any input, guys?
I'm especially interested in:
Longevity/reliability (I would assume a swapped-in 3.5 would last longer than a blown 3.0L),
Overall parts/labor cost for install (I would assume supercharging the 3.0L VQ would cost less) and
Increase in power output (comparing the 3.5 to a 3.0L boosted at highest safe psi without modded internals)
Both of them seem like a full-time job to maintain... The 3.5 would seem easier to have inspected by a mechanic...
A blown Max can work with pretty much everything else stock (including an automatic transmission), while the 3.5 requires a manual tranny, throttle control mechanism, and ECU swap (among other things)
I am considering one of these two routes. I currently have a 99 with an auto. Any input, guys?
1.) If you are doing the swap yourself it might cost you at most $1000-$1100 where as S/C's and Turbo Setups go from used $2K up to $5K.
2.) Yes reliability and longevity of 3.5 would be a lot more compared to blown 3.0L... 3.5's can be found with very low miles some as low as 10K, most of the swaps here I assume are between 15-30K. Most 3.0Ls have 90+K miles on them blowing them would harm their longevity and reliability.
3.) We drive FWD cars traction is a big issue "ALL MOTOR GUYS with 3.5's" and what not are running LOW 13s... TILLEY ran a 13.30,... KRISMAX ran a 13.8 with a 3.0L imagine what he'll do with a 3.5...
4.) Umm what's to maintain in a 3.5L 4th gen? Other than oil and other stuff... most of the parts are plug and play... all you are changing is the block, heads, and IM, and rerouting a few things... the only thing the ECU detects is more air... regular maintanence would apply to this. When you are boosted I think maintanence becomes a big issue I read a lot in the S/C T/C forums of guys that have S/C's go bad and what not.
5.) You are wrong in everything you say in the last part. EVERYONE here with a 3.5 in a 4th gen has used a stock 3.0 ECU or JWT or TS ECU regardless it is a 3.0 ECU. YOU CAN RUN A 3.5L WITH AN AUTOMATIC. I'm getting my motor swapped (3.0 to 3.5) pretty soon. JAPMAXSE has an automatic with a partial 3.5... he has 3.0 heads, but he's doing full 3.5 very soon and he's converting to 5 speed ONLY on preference. You can use a PF TB if you decide to use the '00 VI on a full 3.5, TILLEY did it, I'm doing it, and KRISMAX did it.
05-15-2005, 03:15 PM
#50
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
First off, your auto will melt either way. Blown 3.0 or 3.5, doesn't matter.
Second, the 3.5 is obviously cheaper to maintain. It's like swapping a lower mileage 3.0 in it. It's harder on the tranny, that's all.
3.5 costs about 800$. SC kit costs 3800$ last I checked.
If you swap a completely stock VQ35, you gain about 40-45whp. I would do headers at the same time like everyone else. A bolt on 3.5 will do about what the stock SC kit puts out with base boost (3.6" pulley).
You don't need to buy an ECU. Just use the stock one.
The only things that are REQUIRED for the swap is a used VQ35 and 130$ to have the cams drilled + the JWT spacers. That's pretty much it.
Second, the 3.5 is obviously cheaper to maintain. It's like swapping a lower mileage 3.0 in it. It's harder on the tranny, that's all.
3.5 costs about 800$. SC kit costs 3800$ last I checked.
If you swap a completely stock VQ35, you gain about 40-45whp. I would do headers at the same time like everyone else. A bolt on 3.5 will do about what the stock SC kit puts out with base boost (3.6" pulley).
You don't need to buy an ECU. Just use the stock one.
The only things that are REQUIRED for the swap is a used VQ35 and 130$ to have the cams drilled + the JWT spacers. That's pretty much it.
05-15-2005, 05:00 PM
#52
Originally Posted by JClaw
First off, your auto will melt either way. Blown 3.0 or 3.5, doesn't matter.
Second, the 3.5 is obviously cheaper to maintain. It's like swapping a lower mileage 3.0 in it. It's harder on the tranny, that's all.
3.5 costs about 800$. SC kit costs 3800$ last I checked.
If you swap a completely stock VQ35, you gain about 40-45whp. I would do headers at the same time like everyone else. A bolt on 3.5 will do about what the stock SC kit puts out with base boost (3.6" pulley).
You don't need to buy an ECU. Just use the stock one.
The only things that are REQUIRED for the swap is a used VQ35 and 130$ to have the cams drilled + the JWT spacers. That's pretty much it.
Second, the 3.5 is obviously cheaper to maintain. It's like swapping a lower mileage 3.0 in it. It's harder on the tranny, that's all.
3.5 costs about 800$. SC kit costs 3800$ last I checked.
If you swap a completely stock VQ35, you gain about 40-45whp. I would do headers at the same time like everyone else. A bolt on 3.5 will do about what the stock SC kit puts out with base boost (3.6" pulley).
You don't need to buy an ECU. Just use the stock one.
The only things that are REQUIRED for the swap is a used VQ35 and 130$ to have the cams drilled + the JWT spacers. That's pretty much it.
Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions. What really gets me is the effect on driveability- despite what was said above, I'm told that the TCU from 4th gens differ amongst themselves and are not compatble with those from the newer gens- which would seem to REQUIRE either a VQ35 ECU+TCU combo OR a stock VQ30 ECU +stock TCU to operate an automatic.
05-15-2005, 07:07 PM
#53
Originally Posted by RichMax
By stock, I assume that you mean the stock VQ35 ECU. I would think that an ECU swap to a VQ35 ECU would be required in order to use the VIM in the VQ35 without having to add on the equipment of a 4th gen with IM swap... am I wrong?
Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions. What really gets me is the effect on driveability- despite what was said above, I'm told that the TCU from 4th gens differ amongst themselves and are not compatble with those from the newer gens- which would seem to REQUIRE either a VQ35 ECU+TCU combo OR a stock VQ30 ECU +stock TCU to operate an automatic.
Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions. What really gets me is the effect on driveability- despite what was said above, I'm told that the TCU from 4th gens differ amongst themselves and are not compatble with those from the newer gens- which would seem to REQUIRE either a VQ35 ECU+TCU combo OR a stock VQ30 ECU +stock TCU to operate an automatic.
05-15-2005, 07:15 PM
#54
Im pretty sure using the 3.0 timing chain eliminates the need for the 3.5 ecu.
Also im sure i missed it some where, but do all the plugs on the wiring harness plug into the 3.5 sensors, coil packs?
Also im sure i missed it some where, but do all the plugs on the wiring harness plug into the 3.5 sensors, coil packs?
05-15-2005, 08:03 PM
#55
Originally Posted by JamesNH
Im pretty sure using the 3.0 timing chain eliminates the need for the 3.5 ecu.
Also im sure i missed it some where, but do all the plugs on the wiring harness plug into the 3.5 sensors, coil packs?
Also im sure i missed it some where, but do all the plugs on the wiring harness plug into the 3.5 sensors, coil packs?
05-16-2005, 08:48 AM
#58
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
I understand that a hole in the timing case needs to be enlarged in order to fit the VQ30 timing case onto the VQ35. Which one?
Also, you are using the VQ35 inner timing case, right?
Also, you are using the VQ35 inner timing case, right?
There is another hole at that location on the other side of the engine also.
You cannot use the 3.5 inner case, you will not be able to bolt the 3.0 chain tensioner on to it. Plus there would be a huge unsealed hole in the back if you were to do a 3.0 front cover + 3.5 inner cover.
05-16-2005, 08:52 AM
#59
Originally Posted by Nismo3112
There is another hole at that location on the other side of the engine also.
You cannot use the 3.5 inner case, you will not be able to bolt the 3.0 chain tensioner on to it.
By the way, what are you using for dowels in the drilled intake cams? Are you just reusing the VQ30 dowels?
05-16-2005, 03:40 PM
#65
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
Originally Posted by RichMax
By stock, I assume that you mean the stock VQ35 ECU. I would think that an ECU swap to a VQ35 ECU would be required in order to use the VIM in the VQ35 without having to add on the equipment of a 4th gen with IM swap... am I wrong?
Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions. What really gets me is the effect on driveability- despite what was said above, I'm told that the TCU from 4th gens differ amongst themselves and are not compatble with those from the newer gens- which would seem to REQUIRE either a VQ35 ECU+TCU combo OR a stock VQ30 ECU +stock TCU to operate an automatic.
Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions. What really gets me is the effect on driveability- despite what was said above, I'm told that the TCU from 4th gens differ amongst themselves and are not compatble with those from the newer gens- which would seem to REQUIRE either a VQ35 ECU+TCU combo OR a stock VQ30 ECU +stock TCU to operate an automatic.
05-16-2005, 06:17 PM
#66
Originally Posted by JClaw
No. Use the stock ECU from your 4th gen. If you have a 96, use the 96 wiring/ecu, if you have a 99, use the 99 wiring/ecu, simple as that. Using the 3.0 timing chain on the 3.5 fools the ecu into thinking you are STILL running a 3.0. If you want to use the 3.5 ecu, you need to swap the ENTIRE wiring from a 2k2. I tried but gave up, not worth it IMO.
The A32 ecu needs a signal from the A32 camshaft position sensor. The A33 cam pos sensor will not work with the A32 ecu. In order for the cam pos sensor to provide the correct signal to the ecu, it has to read the timing marks on the A32 cam timing gear on the front bank intake cam. In order to use the cam timing gear, all of the camshaft sprockets and their chains need to be used, since the chains and sprockets are different. The timing cases need to be fitted onto the VQ35 as well, since it provides the mounting location for the camshaft position sensor.
05-17-2005, 02:29 PM
#67
Originally Posted by JClaw
No. Use the stock ECU from your 4th gen. If you have a 96, use the 96 wiring/ecu, if you have a 99, use the 99 wiring/ecu, simple as that. Using the 3.0 timing chain on the 3.5 fools the ecu into thinking you are STILL running a 3.0. If you want to use the 3.5 ecu, you need to swap the ENTIRE wiring from a 2k2. I tried but gave up, not worth it IMO.
How does using a 4th gen ECU allow the VIM on the VQ35 to work, exactly (without the added relays and RPM switches you'd install with a MEVI/ 00vi)?
Am I missing anything here?
As for whether or not using an 02/03 ECU is worth it... the 99 ECU can't be modded by anyone, period, so you can't optimize timing or rev limiter, etc.. The 96 CAN, but can't be used in conjunction with an auto tranny from a 99 (unless you swap your TCU out to a 96 as well).
Further, by using a 96 ECU, you can't possibly have the factory immobilizer.
However, looking at the pictures of the pounds and pounds of wiring... maybe it isn't "worth" it.
Let me know what, if any, misconcceptions I may have voiced here.
05-17-2005, 02:33 PM
#68
Going from 3.0 to a 3.5, one certainly cannot feel any type of powerloss. Even without the VI hooked up, the engine screams till redline.. Sure if it's hooked up, it may have a bit more pep..
It can't.
How does using a 4th gen ECU allow the VIM on the VQ35 to work, exactly (without the added relays and RPM switches you'd install with a MEVI/ 00vi)?
Am I missing anything here?
Am I missing anything here?
05-17-2005, 02:36 PM
#69
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
I may have a solution to the "power loss" issue, and that involves 300zx OBDI conversion with immense tunability. In a few weeks I should have the answer.
As for the VI, you can remove the butterfly. That causes a gain in top end, and loss in low end. But with the 3.5's torque in a light 4th gen, low end loss isn't much of an issue.
As for the VI, you can remove the butterfly. That causes a gain in top end, and loss in low end. But with the 3.5's torque in a light 4th gen, low end loss isn't much of an issue.
05-21-2005, 04:42 AM
#71
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
Originally Posted by RichMax
But isn't there a significant power loss, since the 4th gen ECU wasn't designed with VIM in mind (and therefore the ECU won't act properly in the given RPM ranges to maximize power)...?
Originally Posted by RichMax
As for whether or not using an 02/03 ECU is worth it... the 99 ECU can't be modded by anyone, period, so you can't optimize timing or rev limiter, etc.. The 96 CAN, but can't be used in conjunction with an auto tranny from a 99 (unless you swap your TCU out to a 96 as well).
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MaxRPM6
New Member Introductions
0
09-11-2015 06:56 PM
ballerchris510
3rd Generation Maxima (1989-1994)
9
09-10-2015 09:35 PM