Fred Allen Burge

Hello,
Finally got my 3.5L swap running well on the MegaSquirt ECU and did a datalog tonight of a full run on the street. I'm wondering what is the max advance you 3.5L guys are seeing from the stock ECU? I've got mine mapped to a max of 29 degrees but only made it up to 27 degrees on this particular run.

thanks
Fred

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

In normal driving I have logged in the 40's. At WOT(openloop) I log 26-3x. I am at 40 at redline with the advance.

Since you have a 35 you can advance even more.


MORE DETAILS ON MEGASQUIRT

96SEsleepa

yall dont bash me for asking...but im just being nosey and a little curious...
are yall talkin about the timing for the VI?

if yall are what is suppose to be set at and how high can u set it at??

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

holy crap your sig is huge.

and I agree, 40 is pretty good on the 3.5

Fred Allen Burge

Holy cow, 40 degrees advance at redline WOT (on a 3.0L)? I didn't expect that much was possible, if so then I'm way too conservative right now, that's great news for me. We'll see if this motor can handle it.

The MegaSquirt is a standalone ECU, I have it installed and running now on my car and it runs pretty well, on/off light throttle still needs a little tuning as does the cold start but that's all minor detail stuff. I have a wideband 02 sensor installed for closed loop operation and for datalogging. I'm using the EDIS6 coil pack waste spark ignition system with the MS.

Fred

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Yeah I have it around 38-40 right now. Sometimes I go lower when the outside temps are high. I have been at mid 40's by accident and I don't think it knocked.

Fred Allen Burge

No, no we're talking about ignition timing, when the spark plug fires in relation to the crank shaft.

Fred

Fred Allen Burge

Cool, do you have any means to datalog a run so I can see what your timing looks like as you go through the gears?

thanks,
Fred

Hoooper

i remember seeing some graph that showed high twenties on the 2k2 ECU and only to mid 30s with the 350z ECU

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I will try to data log some today.

Fred Allen Burge

Thanks, that'd be great.

Fred

Jime

iTrader: (10)

My stock timing was between 16-25 from 3k-6500. It is now 40 across the board and has been for 3 months except when I want to go slower it a great way to get to get the car to run index numbers vs adding weight to the car.

Fred Allen Burge

So, you run a flat 40 degrees of advance from 3k-6500 RPM, with no knock? How are you controlling your ignition timing?

Thanks
Fred

Jime

iTrader: (10)

Emanage Ultimate

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

Yes more info on mega squirt

Fred Allen Burge

What do you need to know? It's a fully customizable, fully programmable stand alone ECU that will work with virtually any engine configuration, can't beat that!

And, if you don't want full control you could keep your stock ECU to control your ignition system and use this for full fuel control or vice versa. Or, you could use the MS as an additional injector controller for a turbo project if you wanted, very flexible little box.

Fred

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

does it have the same options as a Emanage Ultimate..with timimg control....i think i remember i talking about this in another thread....didu have to lose the coil pack ang go with plugs or something

Fred Allen Burge

Much more advanced than the Emanage.

Yes, for the time being you have to ditch the coil packs. The router board is in development which will make the coil packs an option again in the future. You can actually use some kinds of coil packs now but, I don't think the stock VQ coil packs will work until the router board comes out.

Fred

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

which version do u have....I or II

Fred Allen Burge

II.

I nearly swithced out for a stock 02 ECU last week but have decided to stick with the MSII, I got most of my bugs worked out and the car runs pretty good now. I need to get on a dyno to fine tune it and see what the MS is capable of on the VQ. I've seen some very promising numbers though already from other people using it.


Fred

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

i was just reading ur thread in engineswaptech.com about switching

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Wow, I'm astonished by this whole thread. First, congrats on getting it going Fred.

Second I'm amazed that the 3.0 heads can take 40 degrees Kevlo. You got any dyno #'s with that?

Fred Allen Burge

Thanks, it's great to be on the road finally!

I agree, 40 degrees of advance doesn't seem possible, safely, but I'll wait for the logs.

Fred

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

But if it is consistantly safely possible then the power gains have gotta be tremendous. I know what its like to be missing 8 degrees due to a dead knock sensor. Getting that back really wakes the motor up. Adding another 13'ish degrees will add some serious kick. If 40 is possible with regular 93 octane mid to high 40's has gotta be possible with 100 octane.

Is there a plataeu effect of advancing timing? Does there come a point when advancing begins to have less of an effect? And, if so, is there a point where timing actually begins to hurt power?

You gonna head to the track any time soon Fred?

Jime

iTrader: (10)

Yes there is. I haven't played to much with it yet but I found that by reducing my timing to 36 I got exactly the same time at the track. My plan is to keep reducing until the times start to suffer and then come up a bit from there. No sense running advance unless it is giving you gains. There is a point where it will reduce power as well, I just haven't carried it that far and don't plan to. I also tried running 110 octane at the dyno and advancing the timing and regardless of where it was set there was no gain from running Sunoco 94 @ 40 deg. So I don't even bother with race gas anymore until I start to spray again.

Fred Allen Burge

I'd really like to but my coolant temps keep nudging up over 200 while just cruising down the highway (after like 10 miles or more) so I'm a little leary about taking it that far just yet. What kind of temps do you see on yours?


Fred

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

edited for jooo

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

You planning on running it at least once before the white stuff? Either you or me have to run before the tracks close otherwise we'll have to wait till spring '07 to get any idea of what a VQ35 240 traps in the 1/4.

BTW what does your car weight in at, roughly? I assume yours is near stock weight...?

Fred Allen Burge

I sure hope so, I need to check when my track closes too. I'd really like to get on a dyno before I hit the track but my local one is too high, 75$ for two power pulls

I'm at about stock weight, not sure what that weight is though.

Fred

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I am usually busy with classes and studying. Sorry for not having the data yet.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Okay I was wrong It only jumped into the upper 30's-40's after the stock revlimit. I don't remember how much I added before the stock revlimit because this log is old. Once again, this is an old log so don't worry about the fuel and stuff

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Probably 2750 or so for an S14. That's still 500 pounds less than a Z33.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Wow, lots of quick responses.

First thanks for the info Jim. I find it very interesting that you're able to push these numbers on pump.

My coolant temps are so low that I keep cardboard taped to over 60% of my rad. With it covered I see 150-170 degrees at highway speed on a 70 degree day. I need to get the situation worked out so I don't have to worry about overheating on 80 degree days in traffic. If I can't get the T-stat thing worked out this winter I'm going to run an external electric water pump and put it on a "dimmer switch". No fans required.

Thanks for the log Kevlo. Is the timing part of that log scaled very sharply or does it really bounce that much? That makes more sense now. If timing at stock redline is between 26-28, extrapolating out to 39 at an 8K redline makes a bunch of sense. Is there any way to put value points to the timing line?

Jim do you do the same. Just continue the timing climb past redline?

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

It could be there is not as much difference between the timing requirements of the VQ30 and VQ35 as people think. The VQ35 heads are better flowing, by all accounts, but if the bore size, head chamber design, and compression ratio etc are all very similar or slightly different, why then would the optimal timing change significantly?

The observations so far seem to suggest that 36-38 deg up top may be optimal for both VQ30 and VQ35. Any more and it doesn't make additional power.

Adding higher octane won't change that fact either. In and of itself it won't make any additional power, the main point to running higher octane is detonation suppression, which allows you to be able to advance timing to the optimal point on an engine which was previously knocking before reaching optimum advance.

But if that optimal point has already been reached without detonation, then why bother with higher grade fuel? An engine's max timing is limited either by it's design or by knock. It is not true that adding timing always increases power. It will, until the optimal point is reached, at which point it plateaus, and any further advance will reduce power - if the engine doesn't knock first. On which side of the optimal point knock occurs will determine whether higher octane is beneficial. In our case, we seem to hit the optimal point without knock providing all other systems are addressed.

Just my 2 cents at this point. Future observation/experimentation may change things.