3.5 complete . . . running rough
10-12-2006, 07:55 AM
#41
I gotcha, it was a hard picture to get a decent shot of but the focus of the pic was to show TDC on the crank, plus it was night time too and was reliant on flash for a decent pic. at that time the chain werent lined up to reflect TDC.
but just curious about the links as when I rotated the crank before I re-set TDC for the motor, the timing wasnt really off, but chain links werent reflecting. so if the colored links do aid a sensor like the cam sensor understand TDC then it would make my motor run funny.
but just curious about the links as when I rotated the crank before I re-set TDC for the motor, the timing wasnt really off, but chain links werent reflecting. so if the colored links do aid a sensor like the cam sensor understand TDC then it would make my motor run funny.
10-12-2006, 08:03 AM
#43
I have an extra cam sensor if this one is bad, and that second motor gets worked on as soon as I'm done with my car, but I still have to strip it down and check the block.
if this swap wasnt draining my pockets I would have gotten a nice 7mp camera I've been eying for a while. had to steal my sisters kodak camera
if this swap wasnt draining my pockets I would have gotten a nice 7mp camera I've been eying for a while. had to steal my sisters kodak camera
10-12-2006, 08:29 AM
#45
You should find on the colored links an arrow ingraved in it or something. It's been kinda long since I did mine, and I do recall seeing arrows for the accurate line up to the TDC on crank shaft. Nismology, please check me if I'm wrong, I really don't remember that well on those because my Mechanics did the line up for me, actually.
10-12-2006, 09:02 AM
#46
I know the orange link will line up with the little dip thats on crank sprocket.
and the purple links should be at a 10 o'clock and 1 o'clock position with the arrows on the cam sprocket pointing at the link.
and the purple links should be at a 10 o'clock and 1 o'clock position with the arrows on the cam sprocket pointing at the link.
10-12-2006, 08:38 PM
#47
When you're putting in the timing chain, MAKE SURE to have ALL the slack in the chain on the left side near the tensioner. If there's any slack between the right sprocket, water pump, and crank sprocket, you risk jumping a tooth or two when it's started. I know this from experience. When I first did my 3.5 swap, this happened and I busted a couple of valves. Remarkably, the engine still ran with a couple of busted valves and with the timing chain off a couple of teeth.
You can do all this with the engine in the bay, but you can be more methodical and careful if the engine is out of the car.
After putting on the chain, tensioner, and guides, I made sure to turn the crank by hand about 20 times or so with the timing chain cover off to make for dam* sure that it would stay in alignment. Take the spark plugs out to make it lots easier to turn the crank by hand.
You can do all this with the engine in the bay, but you can be more methodical and careful if the engine is out of the car.
After putting on the chain, tensioner, and guides, I made sure to turn the crank by hand about 20 times or so with the timing chain cover off to make for dam* sure that it would stay in alignment. Take the spark plugs out to make it lots easier to turn the crank by hand.
10-12-2006, 09:16 PM
#48
Originally Posted by Weimar Ben
When you're putting in the timing chain, MAKE SURE to have ALL the slack in the chain on the left side near the tensioner. If there's any slack between the right sprocket, water pump, and crank sprocket, you risk jumping a tooth or two when it's started. I know this from experience. When I first did my 3.5 swap, this happened and I busted a couple of valves. Remarkably, the engine still ran with a couple of busted valves and with the timing chain off a couple of teeth.
You can do all this with the engine in the bay, but you can be more methodical and careful if the engine is out of the car.
After putting on the chain, tensioner, and guides, I made sure to turn the crank by hand about 20 times or so with the timing chain cover off to make for dam* sure that it would stay in alignment. Take the spark plugs out to make it lots easier to turn the crank by hand.
You can do all this with the engine in the bay, but you can be more methodical and careful if the engine is out of the car.
After putting on the chain, tensioner, and guides, I made sure to turn the crank by hand about 20 times or so with the timing chain cover off to make for dam* sure that it would stay in alignment. Take the spark plugs out to make it lots easier to turn the crank by hand.
2) Turn the crank about 20 times to make sure of alignment.
You've "touched" the most important things needed. Why didn't I think that to say? Thanks Weimer Ben, this is the best advice that I failed to mention.
Great job.
10-13-2006, 02:36 AM
#49
Originally Posted by Weimar Ben
When you're putting in the timing chain, MAKE SURE to have ALL the slack in the chain on the left side near the tensioner. If there's any slack between the right sprocket, water pump, and crank sprocket, you risk jumping a tooth or two when it's started. I know this from experience. When I first did my 3.5 swap, this happened and I busted a couple of valves. Remarkably, the engine still ran with a couple of busted valves and with the timing chain off a couple of teeth.
You can do all this with the engine in the bay, but you can be more methodical and careful if the engine is out of the car.
After putting on the chain, tensioner, and guides, I made sure to turn the crank by hand about 20 times or so with the timing chain cover off to make for dam* sure that it would stay in alignment. Take the spark plugs out to make it lots easier to turn the crank by hand.
You can do all this with the engine in the bay, but you can be more methodical and careful if the engine is out of the car.
After putting on the chain, tensioner, and guides, I made sure to turn the crank by hand about 20 times or so with the timing chain cover off to make for dam* sure that it would stay in alignment. Take the spark plugs out to make it lots easier to turn the crank by hand.
10-17-2006, 07:30 PM
#51
my exhaust was hooked up 
update:
I re-set the timing, its spot on. Re-assembled and started the car. It sounds healthy it sounds much better than before, so re-doing the timing did some good. Sadly the screeching noise is still present. Its present right over the tranny. I decided I'd take off the tranny and see what happens.
Last night when I starter, after I got the starter out I realized the problem.
The starter and flywheel are scrapping. The flywheel is torqued down to spec, same with clutch. I assume now the starter isnt fully retracting so I'll get a replacement starter tommorow.
The car was also mis-firing but it could have been due to the flywheel scrapping on the starter.
Tranny got a scar:
I have another vid of when I cranked tonight. . . uploading still
update:
I re-set the timing, its spot on. Re-assembled and started the car. It sounds healthy it sounds much better than before, so re-doing the timing did some good. Sadly the screeching noise is still present. Its present right over the tranny. I decided I'd take off the tranny and see what happens.
Last night when I starter, after I got the starter out I realized the problem.
The starter and flywheel are scrapping. The flywheel is torqued down to spec, same with clutch. I assume now the starter isnt fully retracting so I'll get a replacement starter tommorow.
The car was also mis-firing but it could have been due to the flywheel scrapping on the starter.
Tranny got a scar:
I have another vid of when I cranked tonight. . . uploading still
10-17-2006, 08:17 PM
#52
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ah! I knew I picked up on a weird screech! ummm, you totally lost me on how that tranny got scraped like that though?? unless your flywheel wasn't seated properly I wouldn't think the clutch would come anywhere near that????
That's awesome you're exhaust was hooked up, that makes me want to **** myself, I can't wait
I'm going to try to stay up so I can see the latest vid.....
That's awesome you're exhaust was hooked up, that makes me want to **** myself, I can't wait
I'm going to try to stay up so I can see the latest vid.....
10-17-2006, 08:22 PM
#53
flywheel is fully seated, and torqued to 69 ft/lbs as stated in FSM. Clutch properly torqued in the proper sequence to 33 ft/lbs.
I'm hoping at this point its the starter, and it would make sense if the gear wasnt fully retracting, that would explain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-y464siDgo
give the video about 5mins to finish uploading.
I'm hoping at this point its the starter, and it would make sense if the gear wasnt fully retracting, that would explain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-y464siDgo
give the video about 5mins to finish uploading.
10-17-2006, 09:19 PM
#54
Yes, it does sound like it's the starter, but I'm still guessing because of the doubt after seeing your picture of your tranny getting scratched. If your tranny can get scratched like that internally, I really doubt that it's fully the starter causing this noise.
That scratch looks more like something wasn't installed correctly in your clutch assembly. Now, IIRC, you've converted from auto to manual during this swap, right? Did your pilot bearing get installed correctly? that bearing lines up your crank to the whole clutching assembly, very important.
I do hope it's just your starter, though. If not, you'd have major problems coming your way.
-Peter-
That scratch looks more like something wasn't installed correctly in your clutch assembly. Now, IIRC, you've converted from auto to manual during this swap, right? Did your pilot bearing get installed correctly? that bearing lines up your crank to the whole clutching assembly, very important.
I do hope it's just your starter, though. If not, you'd have major problems coming your way.
-Peter-
10-17-2006, 10:01 PM
#55
in many convertions I've been told that you can keep the AT bearing and all will be fine.
I am still using, the AT bushing and I wondered if it pushes out the flywheel enough to scrape onto the starter.
Also the flywheel wasnt Tq'ed down properly. I did it to 33 ft/lbs when it should have been 69ft/lbs so I assume that is going to push the flywheel closer to the engine.
But I assume its either the starter, or the AT bushing. I hope its the starter... *sigh*
motor does sound good and healthy though, much better than previously
I am still using, the AT bushing and I wondered if it pushes out the flywheel enough to scrape onto the starter.
Also the flywheel wasnt Tq'ed down properly. I did it to 33 ft/lbs when it should have been 69ft/lbs so I assume that is going to push the flywheel closer to the engine.
But I assume its either the starter, or the AT bushing. I hope its the starter... *sigh*
motor does sound good and healthy though, much better than previously
10-18-2006, 06:57 AM
#59
Well, you should tripple stage torque your flywheel to 69ft/lbs. Do it like the way you would torqueing down the camshaft bearings, do it in stages to make sure proper seating and balanced torque down on the flywheel. This is a suggestion I learned back in the formula 1 team in the SAE project of my school.
Besides that, I'm not sure if A/T bushing is thicker or not, but I would recommend you to get that M/T pilot bearing just for the sake of ruling out another possible cause of the problem.
-Peter-
Besides that, I'm not sure if A/T bushing is thicker or not, but I would recommend you to get that M/T pilot bearing just for the sake of ruling out another possible cause of the problem.
-Peter-
10-18-2006, 05:30 PM
#62
Mdeezy,
Obviously, if your tranny internal got scraped like that, there must be the counter part that's got a scar or a nasty mark there. When you remove your clutch/flywheel, did you observe any of those marky's? Why wasn't this phenomona addressed in the previous threads? If there's no counter mark's, then it's really magical you get a scar like that in the tranny. There's only a few moving parts on that side of the box.
-Peter-
Obviously, if your tranny internal got scraped like that, there must be the counter part that's got a scar or a nasty mark there. When you remove your clutch/flywheel, did you observe any of those marky's? Why wasn't this phenomona addressed in the previous threads? If there's no counter mark's, then it's really magical you get a scar like that in the tranny. There's only a few moving parts on that side of the box.
-Peter-
10-18-2006, 07:36 PM
#63
Marlon!!! When I snapped those bolts on my flywheel and they got lodged in between my pp and the tranny bellhousing it made some nasty scars! there were also marks all over my pp as well as some gouges. the pp is the only spot that would have hit that part of your bellhousing. it is the farthest part out from the motor..and if your flywheel wasnt seated properly, as in offcenter a little then your pp wasnt flat. kinda like a wobble maybe? I would check the outside of your pp first. and check all bolts make sure they are all still there! GL
-Matt
GL-Matt
10-20-2006, 03:58 AM
#67
*UPADTE* No Noises!~!
Originally Posted by MDeezy
If the flywheel isnt aligned properly, that would throw timming off wouldnt it?
I put bolted the clutch and eveything back up and started the car. No screeching noise!!
Car sounds great now, I have a bouncy idle that goes from 1.5k ->1.8K ->1.5k and so on.
Going to attaching tubing the IACV and see if that fixes the bouncy idle.
10-20-2006, 08:03 AM
#68
Sounds good. Congrats on the successful install.
Have you seen my thread when I had mine done? Can you please make a thread similar upon succeeding the swap? I'd like to see your setup in detail and see the problems you've encountered plus how you dealt with them to solve them. That kind of threads will help lots of us to figure out things from the get-go. In addition, new intending 3.5 swap guys should track these threads down before hand and see some of the common techies to gain some broader troubleshooting knowledge.
So far, I see some timing problems to be pretty common. Alignning the chain in that 3.5 is pretty tricky.
-Peter-
Have you seen my thread when I had mine done? Can you please make a thread similar upon succeeding the swap? I'd like to see your setup in detail and see the problems you've encountered plus how you dealt with them to solve them. That kind of threads will help lots of us to figure out things from the get-go. In addition, new intending 3.5 swap guys should track these threads down before hand and see some of the common techies to gain some broader troubleshooting knowledge.
So far, I see some timing problems to be pretty common. Alignning the chain in that 3.5 is pretty tricky.
-Peter-
10-20-2006, 08:35 AM
#69
I was planning on doing that. I have one small problem left to fix with the car, then make sure my idle is solid and stable. Do a test drive then post with all the specs, problems I ran into, time it took, obstacles etc.
Plus I took a lot of pics (camera phone but still decent) so I can make a library of various stages I was at.
Plus I took a lot of pics (camera phone but still decent) so I can make a library of various stages I was at.
10-20-2006, 08:41 AM
#70
very nice, mdeezy.
I hope MODS can consider stickie threads like that so that this info is readily available. If some runs into problems with the swap, they can easily locate symptoms and jump on to correct them.
I hope MODS can consider stickie threads like that so that this info is readily available. If some runs into problems with the swap, they can easily locate symptoms and jump on to correct them.
10-20-2006, 10:48 AM
#72
dang Marlon, glad its getting worked out. I am pretty sure after seeing all of your problems with this, I am going to go with the de-k swap again. Let me know how it treats you in the weeks to come. And if the power you got was worth it.
10-20-2006, 10:48 AM
#73
He says he's got only one little IACV issue right now to play with, so that ruled out that bent valve problem. Bent valves are obviously ghetto, so it's assumable that Mdeezy has his valves in tact.
10-20-2006, 12:12 PM
#74
when i go back and compare my first video to second, the first video sounds like the timing is off and parts might be colliding, but the 2nd video the motor sounds smoother but the screeching noise is pretty dominant.
the fluctuating idle was always present each time I started the car, the iacv was always plugged in but missing the contections to the intake. I was looking in the faq again last night and blew up the picture of dubya engine bay and the way certain vacuum lines were ran, and I think mine arent in the proper place. i just purchased a proper tube for the iacv so I'll see when I hook it up tonight.
I dont think a bent valve is causing this fluctuating idle. I'm going to baby the car for a 1,000 miles (a good break in), before I start to enjoy the plesantries of this swap.
the fluctuating idle was always present each time I started the car, the iacv was always plugged in but missing the contections to the intake. I was looking in the faq again last night and blew up the picture of dubya engine bay and the way certain vacuum lines were ran, and I think mine arent in the proper place. i just purchased a proper tube for the iacv so I'll see when I hook it up tonight.
I dont think a bent valve is causing this fluctuating idle. I'm going to baby the car for a 1,000 miles (a good break in), before I start to enjoy the plesantries of this swap.
10-20-2006, 12:14 PM
#75
Originally Posted by matts95max
dang Marlon, glad its getting worked out. I am pretty sure after seeing all of your problems with this, I am going to go with the de-k swap again. Let me know how it treats you in the weeks to come. And if the power you got was worth it.
10-20-2006, 01:04 PM
#76
Originally Posted by MDeezy
well my problems in honnestly was pretty self inflicted. If I was more carefull with the timing, and flywheel then I would have had this extra week of down time. Besides that the swap I has been pretty gravy.
That's why we need a 3.5 swap Tech Thread so the next generation of kids wouldn't mess up on their 3.5 swaps.
Nice job again, MDeezy
10-20-2006, 01:22 PM
#77
Originally Posted by GodFather
That's why we need a 3.5 swap Tech Thread so the next generation of kids wouldn't mess up on their 3.5 swaps.
Nice job again, MDeezy
Nice job again, MDeezy
I think accidents/mess ups are semi-natural. A swap is never going to go 100% flawless, not even on factory cars hence re-calls. Best we can do is do as much research as we can, know all that were getting into, and have to means, tools, and common sense to get it done start to finish.
10-20-2006, 02:59 PM
#78
Originally Posted by MDeezy
I'm almost done, I got a lot of people to thank for getting this far.
I think accidents/mess ups are semi-natural. A swap is never going to go 100% flawless, not even on factory cars hence re-calls. Best we can do is do as much research as we can, know all that were getting into, and have to means, tools, and common sense to get it done start to finish.
I think accidents/mess ups are semi-natural. A swap is never going to go 100% flawless, not even on factory cars hence re-calls. Best we can do is do as much research as we can, know all that were getting into, and have to means, tools, and common sense to get it done start to finish.
Good call. That's what I mean, too.
10-21-2006, 06:17 AM
#80
Originally Posted by diymaximakid
WARNING:thread jack
Which one next LS2TT,VQ35TT, or 2jz-gte??????
Which one next LS2TT,VQ35TT, or 2jz-gte??????
VQ35DETT = pricey, good gains, if built properly would be a damn nice
2JZ-GTE = would take a lot of work, a lot of fabrication but might be more worth it in the end than the other two options.
what about 1jz w/ gt35r ?