3.5 Is in the car, and it starts and runs. Its running very rought and producing odd noises.

Here a sum up:

02 3.5 engine with 72K on the motor
Stephen Max adapters/spacers
Path Finder TB + Adapter
3.0 Upper and lower Oil pan + 3.5 Oil cooler
IACV adapter.
Ebay AFPR
New Timing tensioner and guide
New A/C belt and P/S belt

Timing was set almost spot on, make a link off.
FPR set to 51 psi @ idle.
Resurfaced stock flywheel
Spec stage 2 clutch


Idles high but that can be adjusted.
You can hear hesistation in the motor, like the idle going up a few hundred then going back down.

Car drives like wimp, little pull, boggy feeling.

throwing two codes:
Knock sensor (3.5 KS still connected)
Intake Air Temperature Sensor

any ideas why this is running so rough?
Might I need to let the car sit and idle for a while to kind of break back in the motor (who knows how long it was sitting for)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52cGXRFr0Ec
I assume a compression test might be in order

 

Crank and cam sensors? All coils plugged in? Fuel injectors too?

 

I'm not throwing a code for any cam or crank sensors but I'll double check with a multi meter.

all coils plugged in
all injectors properly soldered together and all plugged in

 

Why is your FP so high?

 

Are you saying the timing is a link off? "Almost" isn't good enough...

 

I'm going to adjust the idle down to normal spec.

I think the fluctuating sounds could be a fault tps, or improperly set tps.

From what I've read FP should be set to 51psi @ idle.
I'll clariy by stating timing was properly set.

 

Then what did you mean by a link off?

When I had mine done, we did our timing twice, first time, it was off by 2 teeths, cylinders 2 and 3 didn't fire at all.

Second time, the tooth was merely half a tooth misaligned, it was impossible, but a large T-scaled showed so. That timing assembly line-up is very crucial in how your car will turn out. We were sure our timing assembly were set to the exact positions but they turned out misaligned when we finally had to do it again. Your problem sounded like some sensor isn't reading right, worse, it even hints me that timing is probably off.

Also, check to see when it' bogging and stuff, is it dumping lots of fuel out the exhaust? If it is, your injectors could be bad. When one of my injectors got partially stuck open, it dumped a slight hint of fuel out the exhaust, and it bogs everytime I'd rev it down low, it seems to smooth out after mid range revs.

Hope I can help.

-Peter-

 

Just for the record, what is fp suppose to be set at?

 

I believe I have a few pictures of my timing when I set it, I'll find those and post. I do remember when lining the chain up it wasnt 100% at 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock.I'll post the pics once I find them.

I'll do a compression test tommorow. The read out should let me know if timing might be off or not. I knew timing needed to be set but I didnt know it needs to be pretty much 100% on.

I can see me having to pull the motor back out and re-setting the timing over again, hopefully that isnt the case but we will see.
The loud noises are comming from the intake/tranny area. The car smells like its running extremely rich, I can smell the fuel. If I had a wideband hooked up I'm sure the numbers would be pretty low.




if the AT pilot bushing wasn left in and MT flywheel and clutch mated to it, would that cause an issue? I assume not but trying to rule out the possibilty some of the noises are comming from the tranny.

 

dont have better pictures, but I'll do a compression test tommorow and from that decide if I need to pull the motor and reset the timing. Dont want to bend a valve

 

If the flywheel isnt aligned properly, that would throw timming off wouldnt it?

 

did you not notice that when you put it on? or forget? I have done that b4 but fixed b4 driving. I dont know what would happen if not alligned?

 

Nope. The timing ring has nothing to do with crank position. It only tells the ECU crank speed.

 

hey do you have a picture of the bottom sprocket being aligned?

 

ok, I just watched that vid like 10 times, and I'm going with timing being off, but I hope I'm wrong. Also, it's hard to hear on the computer, but it sounds like something other than ur intake is making sort of a weird whining/screeching noise, but it might just be the intake, what's it like in person? Also, remember to KISS, make sure you don't have some massive intake leak, or a bad pcv, or a kink in the iacv line. Also, I'm really thinking you should do a voltage drop test first to make sure it's running on all 6, then hook up a vacuum gauge to see if the timing jumped a tooth, then do the compression test like you said. Good luck, I'm really hoping you don't have to pull it.....

 

Though the picture is a little blurry on the left side, I can already see fishy's on your alignment. But before you pull the timing cover off, I think you should check your injectors. The rear bank injectors are troublesome to check on, but do you best and turn on the engine to do a sound test. That's the easier diagnose before you'd have to pull the timing assembly.

Also, the main tensioner, it's the hydraulic tensioner, i know, but does it have steps on the side to lock tension? On my swap, we used the pathy tensioner, I think. That thing has a lock tension setup that prevents the chain from losing tension, and even that had gave us problems after we aligned it. Somehow, upon cranking, timing sprockets and the chain itself would offset by some. That's from my experiences with the timing assembly. Maybe it only applies to mine.

 

I forgot to watch the video, but upon watching it, sounds pretty "timing-ly". However, one other symptom of bad timing is also that upon reving, the engine would shake and sputter. Do you feel the engine shake relatively hard?

 

want me to come by tommorow?

 

i just looked at those pictures and it seems as though you didn't align the timing correctly. isn't the "dot" suppose to be directly in the middle of the colored link? same goes for the arrows. and that yellow link should be lower if it's set correctly and at TDC when you did the timing.

 

Exhaust cam timing chain looks to be off one link in the 2nd pic. The pics are too dark to tell about the others.

 

check the tps calibration. Start with the easier stuff and get it out of the way. When we were adjusting my tps at one point the motor ran ALMOST (not as bad) as yours, so go from there

 

Makes sense to tackle some of the small things. I’ll get it ideling properly and keep going from there.
Yea. I’ll be home by 6pm
If memory serves I did see the engine shake a little more than normal when lightly revving it.

I’ll test some of the cam/crank sensors and check injectors and coils, and if they seem fine, might as well pull the motor back out and re-set the Timing. I would rather go thru pulling the motor back out and re-setting TDC, than ending up with a bent valve, or worse.

 

Since your motor is in, why not just do the timing right there? It's relatively more efficient considering motor stays in bay, and that little room to work with is sufficient for the job. Are you doing this yourself? There are more things to worry about when the motor goes in and out so much. You'd never know.

-Peter-

 

I'm on my lunch break and now that I look down the side, there is decent space, it would be a little cramped but I think its do-able.

I'd rather pull the case off now before cranking it again and preventing any or further damage

its me by myself but diymaximakid comes by and has helped out a lot! His swap has been done for months now.

 

Cool cool.

When you are doing your stuff, remove the side engine mount on the timing cover, and the trick is to jack the car up on the stands, and then use a jack to jack a strong point on the side of the oil pan to elevate the motor up a couple inches more, this way, you can easily access most of the bolts from up top, and get enough clearance to get to your timing assembly without the obstruction from the car side beam frame. (car side beam frame, never seen so many nouns put together to run a adjective-noun, my grammar is getting fuzzy, LOL) Good luck, MDeezy. Love to see your results!

Are you doing aftermarket cams? what kind? any work on the motor internals? Just kinda curious because these 3.5's respond relatively well to mods. I hope to see more modded 3.5 swaps on here so we can compare the differences.

-Peter-

 

Yea I would jack up under the oil pan with a block of wood to hold it up while I remove the mount. I’m hoping re-adjusting the timing can solve the solution.
My car is just acting very weird I thought I would have been throw codes for a lot various sensors, but I’m only throwing 2, either I’m fortunate or they might pop up later once the ecu has gone thru its cycle.


I didn’t do any internal work, stock cams. Have been flirting with the idea, but I wanted to get the swap successfully done before I moved ahead to mods like that. Even though it would be easier to do Cams while the motor is out of the car.

My 2nd 3.5 motor in my garage probably will be subjected to more work done to it, but all in due time.
Actually seeing some Of the trouble you were having and it seemed as if the JWT cams were the cause of someone your headaches definitely made me want to lean away from cams till everything was properly running.

 

ok I'll be there.dont worry mdeezy I'm a pro at the timing chain stuff while in the car now.so it shouldn't take long homie

 

Cool deal, I did have lots of problems with the JWT cams, but that's all last year when I didn't even know that my 3.0 heads were warped out of tolerances. Resultingly, most of my JWT cams have snapped. Counting, I've had 2.5 sets of the JWT cams total. And this set is the last complete set I've got, and I took the gamble on the 3.5 swap with these cams, they turned out wonders.

I would recommend these cams on the 3.5 swaps because you'll notice the base motor to be very torquey but lack much up top. These cams aren't the most aggressive ones out there, but I think it's right where the money can go for such motor. I just dont' think I'd go for the Nismo or the Ebay knock off's because of overlapping issues. These 3.0 jwt cams in this 3.5 is just right for the high ends. Also, I do have a supercharger kit for this motor, I just haven't install it yet. But upon researching and inquiring from JWT's tech support, these cams are confirmed to be FI friendly. All in all, these cams aren't as bad as I thought.

I did drive my brother's 3.5 swapped maxima, too. His is a basic stock 3.5 swap in the 3.0 engine bay. The car has torque, but really just lacks the high end power my car has, and in a drag race, given the amount of torque the 3.5's already got, any high end mod will give it a nice lift. I do recommend these cams if you can get them.

-Peter-

 

your timing is off hardcore. Either the timing is spot on, or it's not. The car will not run the same on different teeth.

 

Going out to re-set timing now. Will grab the best pics I can.

I hope this solves the problem. But also now that I think about the fluctuating sound of the motor, a mis-fire could been present, but I'll look at that after timing.

will check back in a few hours

 

wrong timing will cause misfire for sure. Do your timing first.

-Peter-

 

Whoooaaa. I just really paid attention to your pictures and the timing is seriously off. Redo it and you should be fine.

 

Yep it is off. Check out my pics that I posted when I did my timing. It will give you an idea of what to look for.

 

I never pulled a timing chain cover off a car, but it appears in the second pic there's an arrow. And it seems like the link is off and not dead on with that arrow. I guess that's what everyone is talking about. I know it would be real nice for someone to post a pic of how to properly put the timing chain on.

 

There are pictures of how to install it properly.......................................... .....................IN A HAYNES MANUAL OR FSM!!! This is precisely why someone shouldn't attempt this without a guide. Or if they have one, it would behoove them to pay more attention to detail.

 

That's true. FSM FTW. But alot of people preach the dummy proof way and that's pictures and write ups.

 

yeah i stated that the timing was off like 10 posts back...but i guess he didn't read it..oh well at least he knows it now. well good luck with everything hope you get it running soon!

 

Taking pics in a second.

Timing has been re-set. Crank is lined up with the TDC Mark perfectly. When I lined up the crank the cams didnt really look off . . .

It felt like only a few millimeters of adjustment were needed to get Cyclinder 1 to TDC.


Cyl #1

Cyl#4
Odd thing is none of the link, were lined up that would signify TDC, regaless of which stroke it was on, but there being re-aligned now.

I'll try to get some clearer pics.

 

do the colored links on the timing chain serve another purpose besides knowing when you at TDC on cylinder 1?

I only ask because my timing really didnt look off when re-adjusting it, but the colored linkes didnt line up to their proper position.

crank now:

 

i really can't see anything in that picture except for the tdc lining up. The timing mark, the yellow one is suppose to be at the oppsite side of the tdc mark. There's a little "dot" the yellow timing link goes onto the gear that has that little do. i hope you understand what i'm saying