Vq40/vq35
10-20-2006, 09:44 PM
#1
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Vq40/vq35
Someone just offered me 3000$ installed (or 2500 just the engine+200 for wiring harness) for my prepped VQ35/VQ30 timing chain. Said person might also take my 350z 6-speed and custom made driveshaft so it fits right into his 240sx.
So I'm looking into selling it and doing a VQ40/VQ35 hybrid this winter. And of course a Frontier 6-speed since the bellhousing is different.
My idea for this low cost hybrid is pretty simple:
a) Complete VQ40DE shortblock from a 2005 Frontier (around 1000$ from junkyards).
b) Stock 350z VQ35 heads (I've seen Rev-Up heads go for 500$/pair on my350z.com).
c) Ebay Knockoff cams (550$).
d) Homemade Individual throttle bodies w/ Megasquirt like Fred (Allen) to tune it and to be able to run a MAP sensor instead of a MAF.
Now correct me on a few things here:
1) The VQ35 heads on a VQ40, simply from upping the displacement from 3498 cc to 3954 cc, should increase the compression from 10.3:1 to 11.5:1. Now I know the Frontier has 9.7:1 comp stock and not 10.3:1 but it's not clear whether the Frontier has domed pistons. In either case I would guess it would be somewhere between 11.0:1 and 11.5:1 which is still very streetable.
So, can anyone confirm the compression when putting VQ35 heads on a VQ40 shortblock? The stock VQ35 heads have a 56 cc volume combustion chamber. Not sure on the VQ40 cc volume.
2) Are we 100% sure the VQ35 heads bolt right onto a VQ40? The timing chain setup is the same thing, right?
So what do you guys think? Worth it? How much power should this yield with the proper tuning? Certainly over 300WHP? I'm ready to make it happen if my buyer follows through. The engine setup itself would cost in the neighbourhood of 2500$ total (thus effectively costing me no more than I *might* get from my 3.5). The 6-speed would cost probably a little over a grand and has the following gearing:
1st=4.368
2nd=2.518
3rd=1.743
4th=1.283
5th=1.000
6th=0.769
Mated to my stock 4.083:1 final drive. Talk about launching in 2nd gear.
So I'm looking into selling it and doing a VQ40/VQ35 hybrid this winter. And of course a Frontier 6-speed since the bellhousing is different.
My idea for this low cost hybrid is pretty simple:
a) Complete VQ40DE shortblock from a 2005 Frontier (around 1000$ from junkyards).
b) Stock 350z VQ35 heads (I've seen Rev-Up heads go for 500$/pair on my350z.com).
c) Ebay Knockoff cams (550$).
d) Homemade Individual throttle bodies w/ Megasquirt like Fred (Allen) to tune it and to be able to run a MAP sensor instead of a MAF.
Now correct me on a few things here:
1) The VQ35 heads on a VQ40, simply from upping the displacement from 3498 cc to 3954 cc, should increase the compression from 10.3:1 to 11.5:1. Now I know the Frontier has 9.7:1 comp stock and not 10.3:1 but it's not clear whether the Frontier has domed pistons. In either case I would guess it would be somewhere between 11.0:1 and 11.5:1 which is still very streetable.
So, can anyone confirm the compression when putting VQ35 heads on a VQ40 shortblock? The stock VQ35 heads have a 56 cc volume combustion chamber. Not sure on the VQ40 cc volume.
2) Are we 100% sure the VQ35 heads bolt right onto a VQ40? The timing chain setup is the same thing, right?
So what do you guys think? Worth it? How much power should this yield with the proper tuning? Certainly over 300WHP? I'm ready to make it happen if my buyer follows through. The engine setup itself would cost in the neighbourhood of 2500$ total (thus effectively costing me no more than I *might* get from my 3.5). The 6-speed would cost probably a little over a grand and has the following gearing:
1st=4.368
2nd=2.518
3rd=1.743
4th=1.283
5th=1.000
6th=0.769
Mated to my stock 4.083:1 final drive. Talk about launching in 2nd gear.
10-20-2006, 10:01 PM
#2
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I thought I remember a thread of someone saying that the VQ40 pistons (on a VQ40 block) would bust right through the VQ35 heads simply because of distance. Veterans step in ... this is just a memory thing.
10-21-2006, 06:04 AM
#3
I remember reading about pistons hitting heads aswell but dont know if it was with the 3.0 and 3.5 hybrid in some setup? may have been with the vq40? You are thinking this for your 240, what about the max? is there a fwd tranny to bolt up to this? obviously new mounts would have to be made at the least if so.. just wondering
10-21-2006, 09:24 AM
#5
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Yeah I'd use a complete, untouched shortblock. Whether I use the VQ40 or VQ35HR block (both tall deck design) I'm just wondering if the old design VQ35 heads will work with everything (gasket, timing chain, cams, etc.).
Edit: From what I've been told on my350z.com, it looks like you were right, the older DE heads might or might not fit, but there's a possibility of piston slip.
Edit: From what I've been told on my350z.com, it looks like you were right, the older DE heads might or might not fit, but there's a possibility of piston slip.
10-21-2006, 11:10 PM
#7
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Does anyone know if there are internal differences between the 2007 G35's VQ35HR and the 2007 Altima's VQ35HR?
Because if the only differences are the ECU tuning, intake manifolds and exhaust system, it looks like we're seeing history repeating itself. I know the '07 Altima's redline is set at 7000 RPM vs 7500 RPM for the '07 G35, but that may only indicate that the FWD manifold can't effectively flow as much as the dual throttle body G35 manifold. And that Nissan doesn't want the Alti stepping on the G's toes.
In that case, if they really share the same 10.6:1 compression ratio, same heads and same cams, with no improvements ANYWHERE in the longblock, this means cheap junkyard VQ35HR's from the FWD configurations, and a safe 7500 rev limit that allows factory reliability.
Because if the only differences are the ECU tuning, intake manifolds and exhaust system, it looks like we're seeing history repeating itself. I know the '07 Altima's redline is set at 7000 RPM vs 7500 RPM for the '07 G35, but that may only indicate that the FWD manifold can't effectively flow as much as the dual throttle body G35 manifold. And that Nissan doesn't want the Alti stepping on the G's toes.
In that case, if they really share the same 10.6:1 compression ratio, same heads and same cams, with no improvements ANYWHERE in the longblock, this means cheap junkyard VQ35HR's from the FWD configurations, and a safe 7500 rev limit that allows factory reliability.
10-22-2006, 03:02 PM
#11
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Read an article that said Nissan thinks the customers would not mind having a 2.5L 6 cylinder instead of a 2.5L 4 banger (QR25). So there's a good bet the super high reving VQ25HR might eventually replace the QR25 in the base altima. Who's complaining?
10-24-2006, 08:52 AM
#14
Originally Posted by JClaw
Someone just offered me 3000$ installed (or 2500 just the engine+200 for wiring harness) for my prepped VQ35/VQ30 timing chain. Said person might also take my 350z 6-speed and custom made driveshaft so it fits right into his 240sx.
So I'm looking into selling it and doing a VQ40/VQ35 hybrid this winter. And of course a Frontier 6-speed since the bellhousing is different.
My idea for this low cost hybrid is pretty simple:
a) Complete VQ40DE shortblock from a 2005 Frontier (around 1000$ from junkyards).
b) Stock 350z VQ35 heads (I've seen Rev-Up heads go for 500$/pair on my350z.com).
c) Ebay Knockoff cams (550$).
d) Homemade Individual throttle bodies w/ Megasquirt like Fred (Allen) to tune it and to be able to run a MAP sensor instead of a MAF.
Now correct me on a few things here:
1) The VQ35 heads on a VQ40, simply from upping the displacement from 3498 cc to 3954 cc, should increase the compression from 10.3:1 to 11.5:1. Now I know the Frontier has 9.7:1 comp stock and not 10.3:1 but it's not clear whether the Frontier has domed pistons. In either case I would guess it would be somewhere between 11.0:1 and 11.5:1 which is still very streetable.
So, can anyone confirm the compression when putting VQ35 heads on a VQ40 shortblock? The stock VQ35 heads have a 56 cc volume combustion chamber. Not sure on the VQ40 cc volume.
2) Are we 100% sure the VQ35 heads bolt right onto a VQ40? The timing chain setup is the same thing, right?
So what do you guys think? Worth it? How much power should this yield with the proper tuning? Certainly over 300WHP? I'm ready to make it happen if my buyer follows through. The engine setup itself would cost in the neighbourhood of 2500$ total (thus effectively costing me no more than I *might* get from my 3.5). The 6-speed would cost probably a little over a grand and has the following gearing:
1st=4.368
2nd=2.518
3rd=1.743
4th=1.283
5th=1.000
6th=0.769
Mated to my stock 4.083:1 final drive. Talk about launching in 2nd gear.
So I'm looking into selling it and doing a VQ40/VQ35 hybrid this winter. And of course a Frontier 6-speed since the bellhousing is different.
My idea for this low cost hybrid is pretty simple:
a) Complete VQ40DE shortblock from a 2005 Frontier (around 1000$ from junkyards).
b) Stock 350z VQ35 heads (I've seen Rev-Up heads go for 500$/pair on my350z.com).
c) Ebay Knockoff cams (550$).
d) Homemade Individual throttle bodies w/ Megasquirt like Fred (Allen) to tune it and to be able to run a MAP sensor instead of a MAF.
Now correct me on a few things here:
1) The VQ35 heads on a VQ40, simply from upping the displacement from 3498 cc to 3954 cc, should increase the compression from 10.3:1 to 11.5:1. Now I know the Frontier has 9.7:1 comp stock and not 10.3:1 but it's not clear whether the Frontier has domed pistons. In either case I would guess it would be somewhere between 11.0:1 and 11.5:1 which is still very streetable.
So, can anyone confirm the compression when putting VQ35 heads on a VQ40 shortblock? The stock VQ35 heads have a 56 cc volume combustion chamber. Not sure on the VQ40 cc volume.
2) Are we 100% sure the VQ35 heads bolt right onto a VQ40? The timing chain setup is the same thing, right?
So what do you guys think? Worth it? How much power should this yield with the proper tuning? Certainly over 300WHP? I'm ready to make it happen if my buyer follows through. The engine setup itself would cost in the neighbourhood of 2500$ total (thus effectively costing me no more than I *might* get from my 3.5). The 6-speed would cost probably a little over a grand and has the following gearing:
1st=4.368
2nd=2.518
3rd=1.743
4th=1.283
5th=1.000
6th=0.769
Mated to my stock 4.083:1 final drive. Talk about launching in 2nd gear.
ITBs....any more info on how u were going about the Throttle Body project
10-24-2006, 01:32 PM
#15
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Well it's been an ongoing "must have" i.e whether it was back when I had my maxima, or back when I thought I would be able to drive the 240 this year, it's always been my intake manifold setup of choice because I feel it offers the best possible powerband (both optimizing mid range and top end) and of course will clear my S13's hood. The main benefit is absolutely equal air in all cylinders.
I will keep things as simple as possible but so far it basically involves cutting up a 2002 maxima upper intake manifold (for its flange) and going from there. The lower IM and fuel rail will stay untouched, unlike most ITB setups. I'll find the closest matching throttle bodies (diameter wise, about 2 inches), buy round aluminum tubing and get all that TIG welded.
I'll probably use a rod-driven linkage instead of cable between the 6 TB's to optimize throttle response and keep the movement tight and precise. Then simply attach the throttle cable to the main rod.
I will keep things as simple as possible but so far it basically involves cutting up a 2002 maxima upper intake manifold (for its flange) and going from there. The lower IM and fuel rail will stay untouched, unlike most ITB setups. I'll find the closest matching throttle bodies (diameter wise, about 2 inches), buy round aluminum tubing and get all that TIG welded.
I'll probably use a rod-driven linkage instead of cable between the 6 TB's to optimize throttle response and keep the movement tight and precise. Then simply attach the throttle cable to the main rod.
10-26-2006, 06:57 AM
#20
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 369
JClaw,
It looks like your project is going down the nearly exact same path mine did. If you care for my advice here it is. Keep the motor you've got in there, keep the ECU you've got in there and figure out what's keeping it from running. If you go down this road your guaranteeing yourself many, many months of down time on the jack stands and we all know how fun that isn't. If you want to enjoy your car get it on the road now and chase the exotic big power setups later when you've worked out the myriad of other little time saping details that are in your future.
I know this is a downer but it's the truth. I had a car that was running and driving (on only 4 cylinders) with a VQ30DE and stock ECU. When I couldn't solve the cyl. 2/3 misfire I jumped on a cheap VQ35 and megasquirt thinking that it would be a quick switch over. Wrong. I'm now several months into that little detour looking back and wishing I'd done some things differently.
my 02 cents,
Fred
It looks like your project is going down the nearly exact same path mine did. If you care for my advice here it is. Keep the motor you've got in there, keep the ECU you've got in there and figure out what's keeping it from running. If you go down this road your guaranteeing yourself many, many months of down time on the jack stands and we all know how fun that isn't. If you want to enjoy your car get it on the road now and chase the exotic big power setups later when you've worked out the myriad of other little time saping details that are in your future.
I know this is a downer but it's the truth. I had a car that was running and driving (on only 4 cylinders) with a VQ30DE and stock ECU. When I couldn't solve the cyl. 2/3 misfire I jumped on a cheap VQ35 and megasquirt thinking that it would be a quick switch over. Wrong. I'm now several months into that little detour looking back and wishing I'd done some things differently.
my 02 cents,
Fred
10-26-2006, 03:19 PM
#21
Originally Posted by JClaw
Yep it requires a MAP and that's where the Megasquirt comes in.
can EU eliminate MAF and run MAP...or am I thinking SMT-7.....or just use a common air box much like the skyline motor does
10-26-2006, 03:26 PM
#22
Originally Posted by MaximaSE96
can EU eliminate MAF and run MAP...or am I thinking SMT-7.....or just use a common air box much like the skyline motor does
10-27-2006, 04:32 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Fred Allen Burge
JClaw,
It looks like your project is going down the nearly exact same path mine did. If you care for my advice here it is. Keep the motor you've got in there, keep the ECU you've got in there and figure out what's keeping it from running. If you go down this road your guaranteeing yourself many, many months of down time on the jack stands and we all know how fun that isn't. If you want to enjoy your car get it on the road now and chase the exotic big power setups later when you've worked out the myriad of other little time saping details that are in your future.
I know this is a downer but it's the truth. I had a car that was running and driving (on only 4 cylinders) with a VQ30DE and stock ECU. When I couldn't solve the cyl. 2/3 misfire I jumped on a cheap VQ35 and megasquirt thinking that it would be a quick switch over. Wrong. I'm now several months into that little detour looking back and wishing I'd done some things differently.
my 02 cents,
Fred
It looks like your project is going down the nearly exact same path mine did. If you care for my advice here it is. Keep the motor you've got in there, keep the ECU you've got in there and figure out what's keeping it from running. If you go down this road your guaranteeing yourself many, many months of down time on the jack stands and we all know how fun that isn't. If you want to enjoy your car get it on the road now and chase the exotic big power setups later when you've worked out the myriad of other little time saping details that are in your future.
I know this is a downer but it's the truth. I had a car that was running and driving (on only 4 cylinders) with a VQ30DE and stock ECU. When I couldn't solve the cyl. 2/3 misfire I jumped on a cheap VQ35 and megasquirt thinking that it would be a quick switch over. Wrong. I'm now several months into that little detour looking back and wishing I'd done some things differently.
my 02 cents,
Fred
And I rather take the time to solve the bugs on a setup that would be final rather than one that would be temporary. But - there's still plenty of time to think about it over the winter.
10-27-2006, 07:58 AM
#24
Don't be disheartened man. Do it up over the winter. Sadly, I don't think I'll be getting to the track as it looks like **** weather this weekend and next. After that my chances of getting decent and warm weather are slim to none.
10-28-2006, 10:30 AM
#27
twminduction.com sells stacks...they have a few different kind to choose from....i have been looking alot lately into ITBs and there are few issues that need to be worked out if u want to stay on stock ecu....which can be done just needs some innovative thinking....the site mentioned above also sells airboxes if u dont want to make one so u can retain MAFs.....but then there is the issue of Vaccum, TPS and MAP.....if u can tap each throttle for vaccuum and have a central vaccum point u may be able to solve all that