? about shift-fast mod
01-21-2007, 05:02 PM
#321
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
I also manually downshift when approaching lights with the Clutch_ON(HIGHLY DONT RECOMMEND). IMO its easier on the trans then allowing it to downshift itself. I would be in 3rd (O/D off) would pull the lever down to "D2",I time it perfectly and bleep the gas (pretty much a rev match) perfectly, to the point where, when i downshift to 2nd the car doesnt jerk/jump or anything.
As some know passengers are cheap g-force meters. you floor it, they fall into the seat, you brake they lean foward. When i do this, they dont move at all...
I guess Im pretty damn good....
As some know passengers are cheap g-force meters. you floor it, they fall into the seat, you brake they lean foward. When i do this, they dont move at all...
I guess Im pretty damn good....
I especially like the new use you found for passengers !!!
In my case, (I have very few passengers), they mostly scream and demand to be let out immediately! Babies.
01-21-2007, 05:17 PM
#323
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
LOL... Ill get a video/soundclip of the revmatching up sometime this week....Im sure you guys will love it.lol.
01-21-2007, 05:31 PM
#325
I take that back, not that much of a problem with autos, they just bore me sometimes. other times, Im glad im not clutching and such..
LOL me and my cousin always joke about upgrading his clutch(95 5spd se) to a stage 3... lol we joke on how stiff it would be, and once you release the clutch, you knee yourself in the face from the stiffness in the the clutch.lol
LOL me and my cousin always joke about upgrading his clutch(95 5spd se) to a stage 3... lol we joke on how stiff it would be, and once you release the clutch, you knee yourself in the face from the stiffness in the the clutch.lol
01-21-2007, 05:55 PM
#326
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
LOL... Ill get a video/soundclip of the revmatching up sometime this week....Im sure you guys will love it.lol.
I think a good record will require a digital camcorder inside the car, on the tach and speedo, and one outside, maybe on top of the car with a wide-angle lens. Like in front of the sunroof, maybe, where the camera sees the whole track and the tree. That could be dramatic, I think.
Here's a dyno run from a Buick Club dyno day:
http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...t=Dscn1457.flv
This is a Before, but with both nitrous stages used. Two full pulls, but computer issues. That's done with my Nikon camera....
I did one Tony Hawk day at the track, but that camera gets overloaded easily.
Example:
http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...Nov05_0012.flv
Ah, well, something else to worry about.....
01-21-2007, 06:28 PM
#328
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
I believe it would be great if someone could offer a DIY tuner for the TCU. If one could plug in their laptop and edit the parameters to mimic what the shift_fast does. Also locking the TC would effectively make the auto act like a 4spd manual so no doubt you'd see more mph in each gear. I'm thinking this mod + a 4.10 or final gear would really wake the auto up big time. I'd like to see a dyno test of the TC locked vs unlocked from low rpm to rev cut.
01-21-2007, 06:50 PM
#329
Originally Posted by Nismo87SE
I believe it would be great if someone could offer a DIY tuner for the TCU. If one could plug in their laptop and edit the parameters to mimic what the shift_fast does. Also locking the TC would effectively make the auto act like a 4spd manual so no doubt you'd see more mph in each gear. I'm thinking this mod + a 4.10 or final gear would really wake the auto up big time. I'd like to see a dyno test of the TC locked vs unlocked from low rpm to rev cut.
But your idea is quite interesting. It just wouldn't be easy, with all the sensors involved. The TCU is actually a very busy box, it seems. You would have to build the product from the ground up.. Not easy....
Huummmmm.................
01-21-2007, 09:03 PM
#330
Originally Posted by grey99max
Well - you've been busy.... It sounds like you're where I'm at when dealing with the TC clutch switching ON and OFF. One exception is that I wasn't bogging like you mentioned. When I spray, I don't bog, it seems, just break loose the DRs and hit the rev-limiter instantly. That was a surprise, wasn't it ?? Matbe you need more power ? Thought about nitrous ?
A couple of things - I'm only going to use this at the strip, so driving around with it ON just pointed out how much gear reduction and loss there is in even a custom torque converter. For me, there is no reason to have it ON unless I'm at WOT. Deciding where to engage it - and dis-engage it - will be a learning experience for each installation.
For your brake-switch question, I think that's only safely possible if you use a couple of relays, one to latch ON to engage the clutch from a switch, and another to pick from the brake circuit which can drop the clutch relay. Kinda complicated if you only want the clutch ON when WOT anyway.
If you think about using a MSD 8969 to control the clutch, you could program it to engage the clutch at say 5500 rpms, but disengage if you drop below 5300 - I think there's a -200 RPM difference required to drop the circuit. You would want to bracket whatever shift points you use, anyway... With the Shift_Fast_2 electronic controller, I could do something like that by adding another 8969 - control the clutch engagement RPM for each gear.
You really need something like the Shift_Fast_2 anyway - It combines the beast features of the DR-mod, the manual shift_fast shift controller, and nitrous cut for the shifts already. And you're very correct - things happen too darn fast to be flipping switches in fast cars. Or my reflexes are shot - whatever...
Keep investigating this wonderful need toy with your "red-light special" - I've got to go back outside and shovel more snow and frozen sleet from the driveway and sidewalks....
A couple of things - I'm only going to use this at the strip, so driving around with it ON just pointed out how much gear reduction and loss there is in even a custom torque converter. For me, there is no reason to have it ON unless I'm at WOT. Deciding where to engage it - and dis-engage it - will be a learning experience for each installation.
For your brake-switch question, I think that's only safely possible if you use a couple of relays, one to latch ON to engage the clutch from a switch, and another to pick from the brake circuit which can drop the clutch relay. Kinda complicated if you only want the clutch ON when WOT anyway.
If you think about using a MSD 8969 to control the clutch, you could program it to engage the clutch at say 5500 rpms, but disengage if you drop below 5300 - I think there's a -200 RPM difference required to drop the circuit. You would want to bracket whatever shift points you use, anyway... With the Shift_Fast_2 electronic controller, I could do something like that by adding another 8969 - control the clutch engagement RPM for each gear.
You really need something like the Shift_Fast_2 anyway - It combines the beast features of the DR-mod, the manual shift_fast shift controller, and nitrous cut for the shifts already. And you're very correct - things happen too darn fast to be flipping switches in fast cars. Or my reflexes are shot - whatever...
Keep investigating this wonderful need toy with your "red-light special" - I've got to go back outside and shovel more snow and frozen sleet from the driveway and sidewalks....
Last night, I was playing with locking up the TC some more. If I leave the shifter in D, go WOT and shift into 2nd gear at around 55mph, I allow the 2-3 shift to happen with the clutch OFF and the revs drop to 4400 rpm in the bottom of 3rd gear. So I try it again at 55mph. Go WOT with the clutch ON this time and after the 2-3 shift, with the clutch still ON, the revs drop to 4400rpm. So I try it again but this time I flip the TC switch during the 2-3 shift. I have the clutch ON in 2nd gear, do the 2-3 shift and turn the clutch OFF as soon as the shift happens. So in the bottom of 3rd gear, it's unlocked and it's still 4400rpm. But it definitely got above 4500rpm MUCH faster with the TC unlocked.
That's why you need to have the TC unlocked in the bottom of every gear, wait until you get in the rpm range you make close to yuour peak power, then lock it up and you should be able to stay in that gear longer. I say SHOULD b/c it's hard to noticed 2nd gear being longer by having the clutch ON or OFF. I still shift do the 2-3 shift (while in D) at 79mph regardless of ON or OFF clutch. BUT, I didn't see if my shift point changed! I need to confirm this. But it's kinda hard with rain and sleet in NC.
But, I got to thinking, my TC lockup optimal point may be very close to my variable intake release point! If that's the case, I can use my Summit Racing RPM switch to control both VI and TC lockup! If not, then I will need to get another RPM switch from Summit. It will make it MUCH easier to control. But I haven't dyno tuned my VI release point yet. It may need to be set at 4000rpm. I think that may be right.
But with the RPM switch, I should be able to have it unlock on the launch, wait until 5000rpm, lock it up, unlock it during the insanely quick 1-2 shift, then lock it up again at 5000 rpm in 2nd gear, unlock it during the 2-3 shift, wait until 5000rpm, then lock it up again! As of right now, I think that will be the best setup for the best track times. But as always, I have to get to the track and test it out and see those timeslips! And I will need to wire in a switch that overrides the RPM switch. That shouldn't be too hard. I can just keep the SPDT switch I already have I think.
As far as the shift fast mod, I still don't see why I need this. I already have a VB mod, I don't want to play with the DR. But the only reason I have to do the shift fast mod would be to be able to hold 3rd gear for dyno runs, which almost never happen for me. I've done a dyno run session only once in my life.
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
I also manually downshift when approaching lights with the Clutch_ON(HIGHLY DONT RECOMMEND). IMO its easier on the trans then allowing it to downshift itself. I would be in 3rd (O/D off) would pull the lever down to "D2",I time it perfectly and bleep the gas (pretty much a rev match) perfectly, to the point where, when i downshift to 2nd the car doesnt jerk/jump or anything.
As some know passengers are cheap g-force meters. you floor it, they fall into the seat, you brake they lean foward. When i do this, they dont move at all...
I guess Im pretty damn good....
As some know passengers are cheap g-force meters. you floor it, they fall into the seat, you brake they lean foward. When i do this, they dont move at all...
I guess Im pretty damn good....
I can't stay away from doing that.
01-22-2007, 06:55 AM
#331
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
Yeah, I bet you're nitrous winds that motor up so fast, you don't notice much bogging or any at all. But I can definitely feel a loss of power at the bottom of 2nd and 3rd gear if it's locked up. And yes, I've heavily considered nitrous!! I'd be in the low 12s pretty dang quick with a 75-100 shot. But I have had turbo goal for the past 2 or 3 years, which is going forward VERY slowly since I don't make a lot of money.
Last night, I was playing with locking up the TC some more. If I leave the shifter in D, go WOT and shift into 2nd gear at around 55mph, I allow the 2-3 shift to happen with the clutch OFF and the revs drop to 4400 rpm in the bottom of 3rd gear. So I try it again at 55mph. Go WOT with the clutch ON this time and after the 2-3 shift, with the clutch still ON, the revs drop to 4400rpm. So I try it again but this time I flip the TC switch during the 2-3 shift. I have the clutch ON in 2nd gear, do the 2-3 shift and turn the clutch OFF as soon as the shift happens. So in the bottom of 3rd gear, it's unlocked and it's still 4400rpm. But it definitely got above 4500rpm MUCH faster with the TC unlocked.
That's why you need to have the TC unlocked in the bottom of every gear, wait until you get in the rpm range you make close to yuour peak power, then lock it up and you should be able to stay in that gear longer. I say SHOULD b/c it's hard to noticed 2nd gear being longer by having the clutch ON or OFF. I still shift do the 2-3 shift (while in D) at 79mph regardless of ON or OFF clutch. BUT, I didn't see if my shift point changed! I need to confirm this. But it's kinda hard with rain and sleet in NC.
But, I got to thinking, my TC lockup optimal point may be very close to my variable intake release point! If that's the case, I can use my Summit Racing RPM switch to control both VI and TC lockup! If not, then I will need to get another RPM switch from Summit. It will make it MUCH easier to control. But I haven't dyno tuned my VI release point yet. It may need to be set at 4000rpm. I think that may be right.
But with the RPM switch, I should be able to have it unlock on the launch, wait until 5000rpm, lock it up, unlock it during the insanely quick 1-2 shift, then lock it up again at 5000 rpm in 2nd gear, unlock it during the 2-3 shift, wait until 5000rpm, then lock it up again! As of right now, I think that will be the best setup for the best track times. But as always, I have to get to the track and test it out and see those timeslips! And I will need to wire in a switch that overrides the RPM switch. That shouldn't be too hard. I can just keep the SPDT switch I already have I think.
As far as the shift fast mod, I still don't see why I need this. I already have a VB mod, I don't want to play with the DR. But the only reason I have to do the shift fast mod would be to be able to hold 3rd gear for dyno runs, which almost never happen for me. I've done a dyno run session only once in my life.
I would not recommend downshifting an automatic. It really puts extra strain on the transmission. The last thing the tranny needs is more abuse. I would simply use your brakes harder to make the same normal stop and replace the pads 1000 miles sooner. I definitely don't recommend downshifting an automatic like that under heavy load even if it is rev matched. But I DO recommend running through the gears and doing upshifts at WOT. I can't stay away from doing that.
Last night, I was playing with locking up the TC some more. If I leave the shifter in D, go WOT and shift into 2nd gear at around 55mph, I allow the 2-3 shift to happen with the clutch OFF and the revs drop to 4400 rpm in the bottom of 3rd gear. So I try it again at 55mph. Go WOT with the clutch ON this time and after the 2-3 shift, with the clutch still ON, the revs drop to 4400rpm. So I try it again but this time I flip the TC switch during the 2-3 shift. I have the clutch ON in 2nd gear, do the 2-3 shift and turn the clutch OFF as soon as the shift happens. So in the bottom of 3rd gear, it's unlocked and it's still 4400rpm. But it definitely got above 4500rpm MUCH faster with the TC unlocked.
That's why you need to have the TC unlocked in the bottom of every gear, wait until you get in the rpm range you make close to yuour peak power, then lock it up and you should be able to stay in that gear longer. I say SHOULD b/c it's hard to noticed 2nd gear being longer by having the clutch ON or OFF. I still shift do the 2-3 shift (while in D) at 79mph regardless of ON or OFF clutch. BUT, I didn't see if my shift point changed! I need to confirm this. But it's kinda hard with rain and sleet in NC.
But, I got to thinking, my TC lockup optimal point may be very close to my variable intake release point! If that's the case, I can use my Summit Racing RPM switch to control both VI and TC lockup! If not, then I will need to get another RPM switch from Summit. It will make it MUCH easier to control. But I haven't dyno tuned my VI release point yet. It may need to be set at 4000rpm. I think that may be right.
But with the RPM switch, I should be able to have it unlock on the launch, wait until 5000rpm, lock it up, unlock it during the insanely quick 1-2 shift, then lock it up again at 5000 rpm in 2nd gear, unlock it during the 2-3 shift, wait until 5000rpm, then lock it up again! As of right now, I think that will be the best setup for the best track times. But as always, I have to get to the track and test it out and see those timeslips! And I will need to wire in a switch that overrides the RPM switch. That shouldn't be too hard. I can just keep the SPDT switch I already have I think.
As far as the shift fast mod, I still don't see why I need this. I already have a VB mod, I don't want to play with the DR. But the only reason I have to do the shift fast mod would be to be able to hold 3rd gear for dyno runs, which almost never happen for me. I've done a dyno run session only once in my life.
I would not recommend downshifting an automatic. It really puts extra strain on the transmission. The last thing the tranny needs is more abuse. I would simply use your brakes harder to make the same normal stop and replace the pads 1000 miles sooner. I definitely don't recommend downshifting an automatic like that under heavy load even if it is rev matched. But I DO recommend running through the gears and doing upshifts at WOT.
I can't stay away from doing that.
01-22-2007, 02:07 PM
#332
Well, I tried a new method today.. I kept the car in d1 with the DR, I floored it, at 5k i locked the clutch, hit 2nd released the clutch..got to 5k, locked it again, hit 3rd released the clutch and re-locked it at 5k again....
Since my car doesnt accel. as fast i have time to cut it on in 1st at 5k..
Doing it this way has seemed to be the best method, with the bet results i have seen so far... Cant wait til track season to try it out
Since my car doesnt accel. as fast i have time to cut it on in 1st at 5k..
Doing it this way has seemed to be the best method, with the bet results i have seen so far... Cant wait til track season to try it out
01-22-2007, 02:12 PM
#334
hmm...What rpm does your VI activate? you should be able to though, unless your VI opens at like 5.5k which would be pointless and i really doubt its hooked up that way so...
YES, as long as its a 12v going to it to activate
YES, as long as its a 12v going to it to activate
01-22-2007, 02:41 PM
#335
Interesting!!!. Why not just leave it On after you activate it in 1st gear at 5k. when the car shifts, it drops to about mid 4000, why not just leave it locked?
I am also interesting in using the vafc2 vias activation, but mine is at 5200, lil high to lock the clutch.
I am also interesting in using the vafc2 vias activation, but mine is at 5200, lil high to lock the clutch.
01-22-2007, 02:44 PM
#336
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
Well, I tried a new method today.. I kept the car in d1 with the DR, I floored it, at 5k i locked the clutch, hit 2nd released the clutch..got to 5k, locked it again, hit 3rd released the clutch and re-locked it at 5k again....
Since my car doesnt accel. as fast i have time to cut it on in 1st at 5k..
Doing it this way has seemed to be the best method, with the bet results i have seen so far... Cant wait til track season to try it out
Since my car doesnt accel. as fast i have time to cut it on in 1st at 5k..
Doing it this way has seemed to be the best method, with the bet results i have seen so far... Cant wait til track season to try it out
If that shift sequence was automatic (no joke) how would you feel about racing it then?? This is what I'm reaching for with my Shift_Fast_2 controller. I've got one MSD contoliing the MEVI at 4800, one shifting the transmission at 6400, and I've two more just waiting for something to do, like run the clutch...
01-22-2007, 02:51 PM
#338
Perfect.... at least for me, moving the 00vi switch over to 5000 (instead of 5200) prob wont really hurt me since im turbo charged and switch over is not that important i dont think. So i can wire the VAFC2 00vi activation to a relay. So when it reaches 5k, the relay cuts the ecu/clutch wire and provides the clutch with 12v and locks it. Then when i let off the relay switches back and connects the ecu/clutch wire back to normal. Now, grey99 dont you leave yours locked throught the entire run? how would it differ from locking it only at 5k?
01-22-2007, 05:47 PM
#339
Originally Posted by streetzlegend
Perfect.... at least for me, moving the 00vi switch over to 5000 (instead of 5200) prob wont really hurt me since im turbo charged and switch over is not that important i dont think. So i can wire the VAFC2 00vi activation to a relay. So when it reaches 5k, the relay cuts the ecu/clutch wire and provides the clutch with 12v and locks it. Then when i let off the relay switches back and connects the ecu/clutch wire back to normal. Now, grey99 dont you leave yours locked throught the entire run? how would it differ from locking it only at 5k?
I only had a couple of evenings before the storms to test this thing, so I'm really not sure. I think that I'll have to launch normally, cut in the clutch around 5000 and maintain that through the quarter. I think that anyway - once the car gets into the clutch in first gear, there's too much HP getting to the ground to be safe on the highway. I never thought I'd say that, either. The new nitrous pipeline and the Clutch_ON makes a BIG difference in the car.
I'm pretty sure that any real testing will have to wait until the tracks open up and I can get the M&Hs back out to play. And it's only January....
01-22-2007, 06:37 PM
#340
Originally Posted by grey99max
And it's only January....
It's too chilly for me and there's snow on the ground, so I haven't gotten anything done there. I have had time to get my LED interior conversion started, though
01-22-2007, 08:53 PM
#343
Originally Posted by streetzlegend
Dont worry ya'll. I will be testing the TC lock up when I dyno. im going to do a run with it on and with it off. and see how the HP differs.
01-23-2007, 08:22 AM
#345
sigh.... my car is KIND OF shifting hard from 1st to 2nd, I might have been using it a little TOO much (i.e. daily driving to simulate clutch bog) O well, i rather be the test car then anyone else's with WAY more mods... I think the tranny might have just been a little hot, Im going to go out in about 2 hours to see if its still running normal 
01-23-2007, 08:39 AM
#346
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
sigh.... my car is KIND OF shifting hard from 1st to 2nd, I might have been using it a little TOO much (i.e. daily driving to simulate clutch bog) O well, i rather be the test car then anyone else's with WAY more mods... I think the tranny might have just been a little hot, Im going to go out in about 2 hours to see if its still running normal
Take care of your transmission. Don't downshift anymore just to slow down.
When was the last time your fluid has been changed?
Check the fluid and make sure it isn't burn or anything. If it's anything but bright red, then change it and see if the shifts get smoother.
Mine certainly did when I first bought the car. It had a dull red fluid (just old). I had it flushed and I couldn't bark 2nd gear anymore.
lol It started shifting smooth again like it should. I hope you didn't damage anything.
01-23-2007, 11:31 AM
#347
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
sigh.... my car is KIND OF shifting hard from 1st to 2nd, I might have been using it a little TOO much (i.e. daily driving to simulate clutch bog) O well, i rather be the test car then anyone else's with WAY more mods... I think the tranny might have just been a little hot, Im going to go out in about 2 hours to see if its still running normal
Downshifting these trannys under power is a BAD idea. I think people tried to tell you that before..... Sorry this happened - you were trying a New Thing.
01-23-2007, 01:29 PM
#348
well the tranny cooler is going in tomorrow, its cold as shizit outside...
Also, is there any write up on how-to-do a tranny flush? I'm willing to do that in any weather to save this auto... because is something goes wrong with it, i might swap to 5spd, but it feels like i have soo many more mods when i consider what i did with the tranny.so i want to keep the auto..
It feels like a solenoid is bad or the DR is disconnected, but when i drove with the DR disconnected, it hits harder, so maybe its a way it can be "slighty" disconnected, but enough to hold current. OR might be the solenoid.. My fuild is starting to get less and less pink/red. Guess it is time to change it but what about that Auto-Rx stuff or is that for motor fluids?
Also, is there any write up on how-to-do a tranny flush? I'm willing to do that in any weather to save this auto... because is something goes wrong with it, i might swap to 5spd, but it feels like i have soo many more mods when i consider what i did with the tranny.so i want to keep the auto..
It feels like a solenoid is bad or the DR is disconnected, but when i drove with the DR disconnected, it hits harder, so maybe its a way it can be "slighty" disconnected, but enough to hold current. OR might be the solenoid.. My fuild is starting to get less and less pink/red. Guess it is time to change it but what about that Auto-Rx stuff or is that for motor fluids?
01-23-2007, 05:23 PM
#349
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
well the tranny cooler is going in tomorrow, its cold as shizit outside...
Also, is there any write up on how-to-do a tranny flush? I'm willing to do that in any weather to save this auto... because is something goes wrong with it, i might swap to 5spd, but it feels like i have soo many more mods when i consider what i did with the tranny.so i want to keep the auto..
It feels like a solenoid is bad or the DR is disconnected, but when i drove with the DR disconnected, it hits harder, so maybe its a way it can be "slighty" disconnected, but enough to hold current. OR might be the solenoid.. My fuild is starting to get less and less pink/red. Guess it is time to change it but what about that Auto-Rx stuff or is that for motor fluids?
Also, is there any write up on how-to-do a tranny flush? I'm willing to do that in any weather to save this auto... because is something goes wrong with it, i might swap to 5spd, but it feels like i have soo many more mods when i consider what i did with the tranny.so i want to keep the auto..
It feels like a solenoid is bad or the DR is disconnected, but when i drove with the DR disconnected, it hits harder, so maybe its a way it can be "slighty" disconnected, but enough to hold current. OR might be the solenoid.. My fuild is starting to get less and less pink/red. Guess it is time to change it but what about that Auto-Rx stuff or is that for motor fluids?
also you better install that cooler asap. You should have not been messing wtih the auto without having mobil 1 and cooler. too late now if u did damage, but now you know. Dont beat on the tranny for a while, let it just be. Then after you do mobil 1 and cooler. start beating on it again lol.
01-23-2007, 06:55 PM
#350
Originally Posted by streetzlegend
Dont need to do auto rx, just do a flush and put mobil 1 atf. To do the flush, follow these steps exacly, http://jime.homeip.net/AutoTransFluidChange.html.
also you better install that cooler asap. You should have not been messing wtih the auto without having mobil 1 and cooler. too late now if u did damage, but now you know. Dont beat on the tranny for a while, let it just be. Then after you do mobil 1 and cooler. start beating on it again lol.
also you better install that cooler asap. You should have not been messing wtih the auto without having mobil 1 and cooler. too late now if u did damage, but now you know. Dont beat on the tranny for a while, let it just be. Then after you do mobil 1 and cooler. start beating on it again lol.
Treat it right, and it will always bring you home. Scr*w around with it and you'll walk home. They're solid like a rock, but you can break a rock with a good smack.
Sorry - I got carried away there.... We want you to keep rolling, after all..
01-23-2007, 07:28 PM
#351
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
....It feels like a solenoid is bad or the DR is disconnected...
WELL, I was tinkering with the motor today, a noticed the wire's going to my DR switch were touching by ONE STRAND!! which cause the DR to be partially disconnected, resulting in a slightly hard shift... PROBLEM SOLVED
! But still doing the flush and tranny cooler.dayum im getting good at this
01-24-2007, 07:17 AM
#353
Originally Posted by ghostmax301
WELL, I was tinkering with the motor today, a noticed the wire's going to my DR switch were touching by ONE STRAND!! which cause the DR to be partially disconnected, resulting in a slightly hard shift... PROBLEM SOLVED ! But still doing the flush and tranny cooler.
dayum im getting good at this
! But still doing the flush and tranny cooler.dayum im getting good at this
01-30-2007, 02:35 PM
#354
I have recently been working hard on getting the Home Dyno software to work with the coil-on-plug design of the VE. I finally got it working so I can get consistant and accurate results.
Below, you will see that I made 4 runs with the torque converter unlocked and 4 runs with it locked.
Having the TC locked is the only real accurate way to do a dyno since there is no slippage. On the dyno comparison chart, you will see how the TQ curve spikes by having the TC unlocked. I would completely throw that out the window. Having the TC locked should give better results throughout the powerband if you don't experience any noticable bogging.
Please keep in mind that I do not do over 230ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. This is Home Dyno, which is only good for comparisons since it's accurate between tests. But since you have to account for many different variables that nobody knows for sure (like drivetrain loss percentage and front end wind drag), then it's not a true test of HP like a chasis dyno is.
If you remove that spike at the beginning of the run when the TC is unlocked, then I get a torque gain of an average of 21 ft-lbs and a HP gain of an average of 3 hp.
Below, you will see that I made 4 runs with the torque converter unlocked and 4 runs with it locked.
Having the TC locked is the only real accurate way to do a dyno since there is no slippage. On the dyno comparison chart, you will see how the TQ curve spikes by having the TC unlocked. I would completely throw that out the window. Having the TC locked should give better results throughout the powerband if you don't experience any noticable bogging.
Please keep in mind that I do not do over 230ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. This is Home Dyno, which is only good for comparisons since it's accurate between tests. But since you have to account for many different variables that nobody knows for sure (like drivetrain loss percentage and front end wind drag), then it's not a true test of HP like a chasis dyno is.
If you remove that spike at the beginning of the run when the TC is unlocked, then I get a torque gain of an average of 21 ft-lbs and a HP gain of an average of 3 hp.
01-30-2007, 05:38 PM
#355
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
I have recently been working hard on getting the Home Dyno software to work with the coil-on-plug design of the VE. I finally got it working so I can get consistant and accurate results.
Below, you will see that I made 4 runs with the torque converter unlocked and 4 runs with it locked.
Having the TC locked is the only real accurate way to do a dyno since there is no slippage. On the dyno comparison chart, you will see how the TQ curve spikes by having the TC unlocked. I would completely throw that out the window. Having the TC locked should give better results throughout the powerband if you don't experience any noticable bogging.
Please keep in mind that I do not do over 230ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. This is Home Dyno, which is only good for comparisons since it's accurate between tests. But since you have to account for many different variables that nobody knows for sure (like drivetrain loss percentage and front end wind drag), then it's not a true test of HP like a chasis dyno is.
If you remove that spike at the beginning of the run when the TC is unlocked, then I get a torque gain of an average of 21 ft-lbs and a HP gain of an average of 3 hp.
Below, you will see that I made 4 runs with the torque converter unlocked and 4 runs with it locked.
Having the TC locked is the only real accurate way to do a dyno since there is no slippage. On the dyno comparison chart, you will see how the TQ curve spikes by having the TC unlocked. I would completely throw that out the window. Having the TC locked should give better results throughout the powerband if you don't experience any noticable bogging.
Please keep in mind that I do not do over 230ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. This is Home Dyno, which is only good for comparisons since it's accurate between tests. But since you have to account for many different variables that nobody knows for sure (like drivetrain loss percentage and front end wind drag), then it's not a true test of HP like a chasis dyno is.
If you remove that spike at the beginning of the run when the TC is unlocked, then I get a torque gain of an average of 21 ft-lbs and a HP gain of an average of 3 hp.
What are your impressions of the clutch ON and Off? Do you think there was a big difference in effective gearing ON and OFF? Have you thought about how to race your clutch mod ? - and I'm sure you have ! Did your car pull harder with the butt dyno engaged? Those curves show a chunk of torque at the bottom end. Give us your impressions and opinions, plz....
I sure wish it wasn't in the 20s here.... All my parts for the third nitrous stage are here, and I'm itchy...
01-30-2007, 06:19 PM
#356
I'm liking these results. Keep up the good work, Aaron. It's still way too cold here and everything is covered in snow, so I wish I could join you in research, but I can't.
So get off your butt, find a warm garage, get everything installed, and it'll be all ready for when the tracks open
Originally Posted by grey99max
I sure wish it wasn't in the 20s here.... All my parts for the third nitrous stage are here, and I'm itchy...
01-30-2007, 06:37 PM
#357
Originally Posted by Tatanko
I'm liking these results. Keep up the good work, Aaron. It's still way too cold here and everything is covered in snow, so I wish I could join you in research, but I can't.
So get off your butt, find a warm garage, get everything installed, and it'll be all ready for when the tracks open
So get off your butt, find a warm garage, get everything installed, and it'll be all ready for when the tracks open
But I will be ready when the tracks open - in April, on some of the locals.
I hate winter.
01-30-2007, 07:09 PM
#358
Originally Posted by grey99max
Well - thanks the first hard evidence that locking the clutch produces real results. That's impressive work.
What are your impressions of the clutch ON and Off? Do you think there was a big difference in effective gearing ON and OFF? Have you thought about how to race your clutch mod ? - and I'm sure you have ! Did your car pull harder with the butt dyno engaged? Those curves show a chunk of torque at the bottom end. Give us your impressions and opinions, plz....
I sure wish it wasn't in the 20s here.... All my parts for the third nitrous stage are here, and I'm itchy...
What are your impressions of the clutch ON and Off? Do you think there was a big difference in effective gearing ON and OFF? Have you thought about how to race your clutch mod ? - and I'm sure you have ! Did your car pull harder with the butt dyno engaged? Those curves show a chunk of torque at the bottom end. Give us your impressions and opinions, plz....
I sure wish it wasn't in the 20s here.... All my parts for the third nitrous stage are here, and I'm itchy...
Is there an effective change in gearing? Umm... I don't think there is a noticable change in gearing. Maybe 100 or 200rpm difference at the most, I'd say. So, those who think they may get another gear out of doing this, might be disappointed. I actually thought I'd be able to extend 2nd gear a lot further, but I can't extend it any more than before (noticably). But I think when the clutch is engaged, the tranny shifts sooner.
With the clutch off, my tranny shifts around 6400 rpm. With it on, it seems to shift by itself at 6200 or so. So there must be some kind of difference.
In each of those dyno's, I ran 2nd gear up above 6600rpm just before I bounce off the rev limiter.
I have a lot of playing around when I get to the track. I plan to make a couple run without touching the TC switch. Then I will run with the clutch activated near the top of 1st gear and left on. Then I will run with the clutch on at the top of 1st, turned off at shift, turned on at 5K, turn off at shift, then turned on at 5K again.
There are so many other things I can try too to see what yields the best times. It won't be until March when I can get out to the track.
But I tried my 1-2 shift again with the TC on and I bogged big time again. I don't seem to bog at the 2-3 shift though. It shifts cleanly and starts 3rd gear at exactly 4000rpm!! That is LOW for the VE! That takes forever to get in the powerband (5.5K rpm). So I will have to play around with it.
If you see in my dyno, the torque crossover point is at 4400rpm, so that SHOULD be the best time to activate the clutch. But by trying this on the street, 4400 seemed a little too soon. But it may be the optimal point to activate. My track times will tell me all that.
I will make a dyno showing what happens when I flip the switch. I believe there will be a huge drop in power as the clutch engages! So, it might not be best to activate the clutch while in the powerband. It may be best to start it at the bottom of 2nd gear and leave it on during the shift. Again, my ETs will tell me more.
01-30-2007, 07:57 PM
#359
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
It shifts cleanly and starts 3rd gear at exactly 4000rpm!! That is LOW for the VE! That takes forever to get in the powerband (5.5K rpm).
01-30-2007, 08:32 PM
#360
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
Nice dyno, I'm thinking that for best ET's you'd probably want to engage the TC around 5000rpm. The slippage from the unlocked TC would allow the motor to rev quicker but it puts down less power. So your going to have to find the best balance or engagement point for best performance. I'd guess based on the torque curves that 5k should be a good point to start with. The slippage would help the engine rev to 5k quicker than locked, so after that point you can benefit from the higher power with it locked.
I would suggest doing tests on how fast the engine accelerates from 4000 to 5500rpm locked and unlocked. If you look into your OUT file you will see a time stamp for each rpm sample captured. From there you can subtract the difference in speed or rpm between set points. In any event good luck! All this auto tuning seems like fun, almost sucks to drive a manual....well then again maybe not lol.
I would suggest doing tests on how fast the engine accelerates from 4000 to 5500rpm locked and unlocked. If you look into your OUT file you will see a time stamp for each rpm sample captured. From there you can subtract the difference in speed or rpm between set points. In any event good luck! All this auto tuning seems like fun, almost sucks to drive a manual....well then again maybe not lol.