Larger MAF, fuel and timing mod
04-20-2007, 08:37 AM
#41
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by leeI35
Yes sir!!! Ordered mine on monday received it on wednesday, and installed (finally) today.
Total was about $110 shipped.
I hope my dyno numbers stay the same or go up. I was at 242whp 236tq. Sorry no run files from Tempest Racing (seems there machines are always down when I go). Hopefully SRT will have a better setup for dynos.
Total was about $110 shipped.
I hope my dyno numbers stay the same or go up. I was at 242whp 236tq. Sorry no run files from Tempest Racing (seems there machines are always down when I go). Hopefully SRT will have a better setup for dynos.
What sort of mods do you have to make that kind of power???
04-20-2007, 09:01 AM
#42
Originally Posted by VQ20
What sort of mods do you have to make that kind of power???
04-20-2007, 11:15 AM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by VQ20
What sort of mods do you have to make that kind of power???
04-20-2007, 11:26 AM
#45
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by nismology
I think it's impressive for an auto with just bolt-ons.
Remember it was stated before that the 255hp figure quoted by Nissan was at the crank, so the auto guys were getting 190-something hp at the wheels. so that number with just bolt-on sounds good to me. Its the area was looking at, of course i also have the e-manage to put in also.
04-20-2007, 12:17 PM
#46
Originally Posted by nismology
^^Why past tense?
Ah, nm. The engine...
Ah, nm. The engine...
But I pick up the replacement tomorrow.
And then the surgery can begin... some vital organs will be transplanted. I plan to reuse the custom intake though (and by that I mean TB and everything in front of it). I will have a couple spare VI's also, might try some serious "tweaking" with them to better suit the new organs. Still have some software analysis to do on that end first though.
04-20-2007, 12:23 PM
#47
Let me see if I have this right. You will need a VAFC/SAFC if you get the Land Rover MAF, but what about if you just use PVC piping and all Nissan electronics? Wouldn't that be the same as just getting a bigger TB (no corrections needed)?
04-20-2007, 12:45 PM
#49
Larger MAF housing and larger TBs do the same thing. Allow more air flow. But you have to understand how a MAF works. The MAF sensor is calibrated to read mass of air though a certain sized tube. Enter a non-constant maf housing size (ie.. larger tube) and it throws that calibration off. Namely the A/F ratios. Thus the need for SAFC or similar.
Larger TB won't cause this condition because there isn't anything being measured though it. The increased mass of air being drawn in, can be read by the maf. And I'm guessing the throttle position sensor is still reading the same amounts as it's directly tied into the throttle shaft position. It doesn't know it's turning a larger TB plate.
Larger TB won't cause this condition because there isn't anything being measured though it. The increased mass of air being drawn in, can be read by the maf. And I'm guessing the throttle position sensor is still reading the same amounts as it's directly tied into the throttle shaft position. It doesn't know it's turning a larger TB plate.
Originally Posted by 95maxrider
Let me see if I have this right. You will need a VAFC/SAFC if you get the Land Rover MAF, but what about if you just use PVC piping and all Nissan electronics? Wouldn't that be the same as just getting a bigger TB (no corrections needed)?
... making me look bad
04-20-2007, 12:51 PM
#51
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Larger MAF housing and larger TBs do the same thing. Allow more air flow. But you have to understand how a MAF works. The MAF sensor is calibrated to read mass of air though a certain sized tube. Enter a non-constant maf housing size (ie.. larger tube) and it throws that calibration off. Namely the A/F ratios. Thus the need for SAFC or similar.
04-20-2007, 12:53 PM
#52
I'm intrigued by this yes. As I believe I'm running a maxima MAF. So your TB is stock sized right now? SAFC might be a cheap option but my early 03 seems to suffer from very conservative ign maps. Just thinking out loud here, I wonder if TS can reflash to accomodate this a/f ratio thing?
04-20-2007, 01:36 PM
#56
Did Matt ever mention how far the timing was advanced due to this large MAF mod? This could conceivably kill two birds with one stone. And only required a SAFC. (Although it looks like Matt suggests EB (for a/f and timing retard) or the EU (for a/f and timing retard/advance).
04-20-2007, 08:14 PM
#57
G37S > I35 > UR Max
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: (P)ure (G)arbage, MD
Posts: 899
Sorry for not answering my PM guys. I had to ban myself from the internet to get some personal things accomplished.
Anyway, to answer some PMS and other questions, I am just going to post in this thread.
1) After two weeks of testing. I can definitely tell you that my lowend has greatly improved. With the greatly improved lowend I noticed that I lost a lot of MPG to the gallon. I drive hard (i am not going to lie) and without this mod I used to go at least a week and half with out feeling up with gas. I have been to the pump twice already feeling up at $52
each time. .
2) My car is idiling VERY bad. At a stop, my car seems to be idiling between 800rpms and then bounces back down to about 400rpms back up and down. This evening I thought it was going to cut off, I am going to check it out tomorrow and relay any issues.
3) I didn't get a retune yet after I installed the maf because I was too busy. My front bank 02 sensor is not reading properly (this might explain the problem in 2)) and I definitely need to get this checked. I had an inexperienced shop (never worked on nissans) tune and dyno my car and they seem like they were lost when trying to tune my SAFC II to my car's full potential. They also extended my 02 sensors which I think is the problem.
4) I ordered my MAF from www.car-parts.com which was stated before from NmexMax.
5) I got the silicone couplings from Lowe's. I went to the PVC isle and got the black 3inch couplings. I stretched them to fit over Maf and my Intake midpipe.
6) My mid pipe was from the Berke WAI setup. I had both sides of the pipe cut to fit before the throttle body and after the maf. I do not know the lenght because i did not do a measurement. I guesstimated.
7) I am currently still using my stock airbox along with the new maf. I tried just the apexi filter and MAF, and though you get a bit more topend, I rather have my lowend with the OEM Air box + K&N filter (I do a lot of city driving).
8) My mods are I/h/full Exhaust/catman genII cat/(smelly gas and everything)/p/ timing advanced, safc II-tuned and now the new maf.
That's about all from me. Everything I just mentioned was already covered by the senior+more technical members in this thread. I will post an update after I figure out my idle problem and get a retune.
And yes my last dyno was at 242whp and 236tq with removed rear seats + spare + jack with OEM wheels. I am too lazy to go back to Tempest racing (the dyno shop i used) to get my run files.
Anyway, to answer some PMS and other questions, I am just going to post in this thread.
1) After two weeks of testing. I can definitely tell you that my lowend has greatly improved. With the greatly improved lowend I noticed that I lost a lot of MPG to the gallon. I drive hard (i am not going to lie) and without this mod I used to go at least a week and half with out feeling up with gas. I have been to the pump twice already feeling up at $52
each time. .2) My car is idiling VERY bad. At a stop, my car seems to be idiling between 800rpms and then bounces back down to about 400rpms back up and down. This evening I thought it was going to cut off, I am going to check it out tomorrow and relay any issues.
3) I didn't get a retune yet after I installed the maf because I was too busy. My front bank 02 sensor is not reading properly (this might explain the problem in 2)) and I definitely need to get this checked. I had an inexperienced shop (never worked on nissans) tune and dyno my car and they seem like they were lost when trying to tune my SAFC II to my car's full potential. They also extended my 02 sensors which I think is the problem.
4) I ordered my MAF from www.car-parts.com which was stated before from NmexMax.
5) I got the silicone couplings from Lowe's. I went to the PVC isle and got the black 3inch couplings. I stretched them to fit over Maf and my Intake midpipe.
6) My mid pipe was from the Berke WAI setup. I had both sides of the pipe cut to fit before the throttle body and after the maf. I do not know the lenght because i did not do a measurement. I guesstimated.
7) I am currently still using my stock airbox along with the new maf. I tried just the apexi filter and MAF, and though you get a bit more topend, I rather have my lowend with the OEM Air box + K&N filter (I do a lot of city driving).
8) My mods are I/h/full Exhaust/catman genII cat/(smelly gas and everything)/p/ timing advanced, safc II-tuned and now the new maf.
That's about all from me. Everything I just mentioned was already covered by the senior+more technical members in this thread. I will post an update after I figure out my idle problem and get a retune.
And yes my last dyno was at 242whp and 236tq with removed rear seats + spare + jack with OEM wheels. I am too lazy to go back to Tempest racing (the dyno shop i used) to get my run files.
04-20-2007, 10:56 PM
#61
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Larger MAF housing and larger TBs do the same thing. Allow more air flow. But you have to understand how a MAF works. The MAF sensor is calibrated to read mass of air though a certain sized tube. Enter a non-constant maf housing size (ie.. larger tube) and it throws that calibration off. Namely the A/F ratios. Thus the need for SAFC or similar.
Larger TB won't cause this condition because there isn't anything being measured though it. The increased mass of air being drawn in, can be read by the maf. And I'm guessing the throttle position sensor is still reading the same amounts as it's directly tied into the throttle shaft position. It doesn't know it's turning a larger TB plate.
Larger TB won't cause this condition because there isn't anything being measured though it. The increased mass of air being drawn in, can be read by the maf. And I'm guessing the throttle position sensor is still reading the same amounts as it's directly tied into the throttle shaft position. It doesn't know it's turning a larger TB plate.
So if it mainly effects the AFR, could I just just my AFPR to compensate? Or does it cause other complications as well?
04-27-2007, 11:09 AM
#69
G37S > I35 > UR Max
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: (P)ure (G)arbage, MD
Posts: 899
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
Ok, you must have not changed the sensor settings(idle is bad because it's much too lean). I changed them(settings) and nothing has changed, (AFR that is)
I'm scheduled for a dyno tomorrow, and will report back.
I'm scheduled for a dyno tomorrow, and will report back.
What a f*ing idiot i am. I may need to talk to you off line about the sensor settings on the SAFC and try to go through them 1 by 1 to correct my settings. I should have never remembered my password for this thing.I want to get a dyno done, but I do not know if I should get the spacers first.
04-27-2007, 03:58 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
I can get 675 - 7100 in 1st 
And 2700 - 7100 in second Also, my timing is bumped a bit (vs stock) since I have TS reflash. And this is confirmed when comparing my curves to another stock member.
And 2700 - 7100 in second Also, my timing is bumped a bit (vs stock) since I have TS reflash. And this is confirmed when comparing my curves to another stock member.
05-04-2007, 08:00 PM
#73
this sounds like a worthwhile mod, especially for those who already have the ability to piggy back. Just wondering though, when I go to car-part.com and look under land rover, which model?
nmex let me know how the custom midpipe works out for you
nmex let me know how the custom midpipe works out for you
But it's going to help in my next chapter of tuning.
05-04-2007, 08:24 PM
#75
Shoot... I was hoping you would have received it by now. So you need 3.25" ID/3.5 OD? that can probably be arranged. Let me look into whether or not they make tubing with that ID. Car-part doesn't list the engine size and of course there are none in Canada... I hate paying huge shipping price form people who want to ship UPS to Canada, but I'll email a few guys just in case.
06-29-2007, 12:41 PM
#76
NMexMax I finally got around to doing this last week. Im not using an 82mm device, but I am keeping the same ID of the intake tube track (3" ID, now a 3" MAF to match). Just off the bat, yes response feels better. I went to tune the car last weekend (I'll post up results from that dyno once they email me my runfiles. For some reason, they used STD cor instead of SAE like they usually use. Comparing my old printout from another STD cor dyno, peak #s are in the same area, but I gained ~10whp at redline. I put ~ because I dont want to put official #s until I have the runfiles and put it to SAE #s. The temp is the dyno was 101*F, so I know temp correction alone is gonna show more realistic #s from my setup).
Nismology drove my car before and after, and he agrees with my findings that it definatly holds power better up top, feels more linear overall. Its an EXCELLENT complement to the "worked" IM. So now I have an intake that is 3"ID from the filter to the IM's elbow (PF and 3.5 eTB are 75mm ID, so ~3"). I guess at one point, the stock MAF is indeed a restriction.
Used-
Stock A32 MAF sensor + reciprocating saw + 3" ID (76.5mm) PVC pipe from HomeDepot + Epoxy= $10 3" MAF
1st you cut the stocker
2nd you cut more and smooth out the edges
3rd drill hole onto the PVC to clear the hotwire/airfoil through. I stuffed JBQuick around the top of the airfoil/ bottom of the "brainbox" to seal around the hole, then I used epoxy to seal the "brainbox" to the PVC pipe. Once it dried up I got my dremel and smoothed out the JB Quick to match the contours of the airfoil (these pictures are from before I smoothed it out, so you see the clump of JBQ, lol)
4th (no pictures of that yet) I spray painted it all Aluminum silver, bored out the original opening of the stock MAF (took out the screen) and epoxy'd it to the front of the new MAF, so it now has a filter on it.
Credits- NMexMax and 915Max
Official dyno #s are pending until the shop emails me the runfiles.
Nismology drove my car before and after, and he agrees with my findings that it definatly holds power better up top, feels more linear overall. Its an EXCELLENT complement to the "worked" IM. So now I have an intake that is 3"ID from the filter to the IM's elbow (PF and 3.5 eTB are 75mm ID, so ~3"). I guess at one point, the stock MAF is indeed a restriction.
--------------------------------------------------------
Used-
Stock A32 MAF sensor + reciprocating saw + 3" ID (76.5mm) PVC pipe from HomeDepot + Epoxy= $10 3" MAF
1st you cut the stocker
2nd you cut more and smooth out the edges
3rd drill hole onto the PVC to clear the hotwire/airfoil through. I stuffed JBQuick around the top of the airfoil/ bottom of the "brainbox" to seal around the hole, then I used epoxy to seal the "brainbox" to the PVC pipe. Once it dried up I got my dremel and smoothed out the JB Quick to match the contours of the airfoil (these pictures are from before I smoothed it out, so you see the clump of JBQ, lol)
4th (no pictures of that yet) I spray painted it all Aluminum silver, bored out the original opening of the stock MAF (took out the screen) and epoxy'd it to the front of the new MAF, so it now has a filter on it.
Credits- NMexMax and 915Max
Official dyno #s are pending until the shop emails me the runfiles.
06-29-2007, 12:56 PM
#79
That's great. How's throttle response?
Also, mloot point, but I have to mention it to keep everything in line.
TB's are /should be measured from the rear, since that's where the the 'mouth' is where the air enters. The TB flares a bit toward the front (part we see when it's installed), so it's deceptive measuring that dimension as it may be slightly larger than what is actually entering the engine. And so the PFTB/TBWVQ35 tb's are all 70mm.
IIRC, even the Titan uses 70mm. The only one that uses a bigger one is the one in the Q45(not sure model years) I think it's upwards of 90mm.
I saw a gain of ~ 10whp @ fuel cut when I went w/ a super short ram. A also saw a nice torque gain too.
Glad to hear this is finally catching on (me = echoing SR20DEN)
Also, mloot point, but I have to mention it to keep everything in line.
Originally Posted by 95BLKMAX
(PF and 3.5 eTB are 75mm ID, so ~3"
IIRC, even the Titan uses 70mm. The only one that uses a bigger one is the one in the Q45(not sure model years) I think it's upwards of 90mm.
I saw a gain of ~ 10whp @ fuel cut when I went w/ a super short ram. A also saw a nice torque gain too.
Glad to hear this is finally catching on (me = echoing SR20DEN)
06-29-2007, 01:01 PM
#80
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
Glad to hear this is finally catching on (me = echoing SR20DEN)
Hush
I don't like cutting up mafs 
Question, any cheap housings I can mod w/o using PCV? Rover maf costs too much since I have to hack it up to install my element,