cardana24

iTrader: (81)

As most of you know I have a 98 Supercharged 5 speed maxima that ran fine until I tried putting an 00VI on it. I tried cranking it today for the first time and the rpms would go up and down hunting for the idle then die in about 5 seconds of being cranked. When I push the gas it does not really help, it will rev way up then die. My maf is plugged in. The coils in the car are good. i am pretty sure everything is hooked up correctly since I have my 1995 w/ 00VI running very smoothly now. What gives? I thought I did everything right. The car is acting as if IMO it has a massive intake leak. Anyway I would love some suggestions. Here is my set up on my Supercharged 98 5 speed fed spec.

00 upper intake manifold
00 rear valve cover
00 pcv valve set up
00 egr guide tube
4th gen LIM drilled by Stephen Max to accept the 00 upper
4th gen fuel rail with 370cc injectors.
Pathfinder TB (upper is bored out to match the PF tb)

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Did you check for leaks near the egr tube?

matty

iTrader: (54)

Since you bored out your I/M, what gasket are you using between your Pathfinder adaptor plate and the Manifold ??

-matt

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

No. Is that a common place for them? I remember when bolting the EGR guide tube down the tube did not come up in the center of the hole int he manifold. Should it be coming right though the middle of the hole?

I used Permatex hit temp gasket maker for my gasket between the TB and manifold. That is something I need to re check though.

DasYears

i would just check for leaks all around the intake, everywhere you can get close enough to hear for a leak. can you check fuel pressure? if you have the ability, check pretty much everything you can, it will help a lot. ie:fuel pressure, MAF reading, injector pulses, watever you can get your hands on

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

As others are saying, check for leaks. What vacuum level are you seeing at idle on your boost gauge? Should be around 17-20 in.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

it will not stay running long enough for me to check any of this. I need to get someone else to crank the car, because I cannot get around to the front of the car quick enough to see where its leaking.

Last night I re-JB welded a fitting and re-siliconed the TB to the adaptor plate. I'll try it again tonight and report back.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Also, be sure to use some RTV between the inner and outer adapter plates.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

there is. I did not re-do that one though. As I said, i will report back later but where ever the leak is/was it major. I cannot even push the gas to keep the car running.

Also when using the 4th gen LIM and the 00VI upper you use the 00 Upper intake manifold gasket correct? Since my other set up uses the fifth gen lower I want to make sure I have this correct. When using the 4th gen lower I put it on just like I normally would and then bolt the 00 upper to that correct? Are there any special steps I need to take when attaching the 4th gen lower to the 00 upper?

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

To use the 4th gen LIM, you need to turn it 180 degrees so that the LIM ports match the 00vi ports better. Use the 5th gen o-ring style gasket that fits into the grooves in the 00vi.

Be aware that if you use the 4th gen rear valve cover, the coil mounting bosses stick up a bit too far and that will cause the 00vi to tilt just enough to cause some major air leaks along the backside of the LIM ports.

pod97654

iTrader: (13)

if you find someone to crank the car for you, once you get running, get a can of starting fluid and spray around the conevtions between the upper and lower intake manifolds, if the engine starts to race, then you know the leak is there. if nothing happens, try spraying the rest of your vac conections. once you spray on a vac leak the engine should rev up.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

I bet that's what it is. I don't think I turned the LIM 180 degrees. If I did not turn it 180 degrees could it be so far off that I would have a massive air leak? I thought the LIM would only go one one way, I guess I was wrong.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

holy crap this is frustrating. I just re did the set up tonight. I took everything off down to the LIM. I re did the silicone on the LIM. I made sure I had the LIM turned 180 degrees and I did since the stock injector grounding holes are on the firewall side now. I put everything back together and tried starting the car. it did the exact same thing!!! It will hunt for idle quickly between 500-1200 RMP then die. What else can cause this? The car is not running long enough to generate and check engine codes. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

I just went out side and had my dad try to keep the car running while I put some sea foam in it to see if I could use the smoke to help me find the leak. I was not having much luck until the reving caused an intake back fire and smoke blew out between the union of where the upper and lower meet. So how can I seal this better? I used a brand new upper gasket when i put everything together. I looked at the gasket tonight before I put everything back together and it seemed fine. Has anyone else had trouble sealing at 4the gen LIM with the 00 upper? What tightening sequence should I use? I have the two bolts on the side and the the four in the middle and the two on the egr. What is the best order to tighten them? I am going to try to get the part ordered tomorrow so I can give this one last shot before a meet I am trying to make this weekend. Any advice on how to properly/better seal the Upper to the LIM is appreciated. i am hoping this is my only problem.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

What did you do about the rear valve cover and ignition coils? If you did not grind the coil mounting bosses down, they will prevent the 00vi from sitting flat on the LIM and you will get a leak at the rear, just like what you have.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

One other suggestion. You could try going with the 4th gen IM gasket, which is much thicker than the 00vi gasket and will allow better sealing if you're having interference problems with the rear valve cover.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

that's an idea. Do I need to grind anything down if I am using 00 rear valve cover and coils? I was under the impression that if I had these two items I would not need to grind anything.

gtr_rider

iTrader: (50)

With 00 rear VC and coils you wont need to grind anything.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Nothing to grind if you use 00rear/coils

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

No, you don't need to grind anything with the 5th gen rear valve cover and coils.

I will agree with Kev that I think it's the EGR tube. I personally am not running an EGR tube because it caused this issue for me and I never got around to making it work right with it. The problem was that the tube needs bent to fit everything correctly, and if you don't bend it enough/bend it too much the angle it will sit at when bolted in properly will cause the upper manifold not to seal properly to the lower manifold in the back (as you described).

If you need a temporary fix, try making block off plates for the manifold and EGR valve where the tube would normally bolt to each. Should be two little plates that are fairly easy to make, and if you put those on and try re-installing the upper manifold, that would at least eliminate that from the equation for now. I have essentially three bolts holding the upper to the lower with this setup and no support bars holding the upper (the ones that attach to the rear valve cover/head) and it's sealed just fine.

DasYears

try sending some smoke or something into the manifold when it isnt running, or put something around the outside and run it so you know for sure where any/all leaks occur at. if you seafoam the engine, its all just getting sucked in, nothing should be going out of the intake. use some carb-cleaner or other engine safe fluid around the outside to check

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

You should tighten the middle four in a criss-cross pattern first, then the outer two. With the egr tube, the best way to connect it is to loosen the bolts where it connects with the egr, then tighten the two bolts that connect it to the 00vi, then the bolts at the egr.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

yeah I realized that while I was doing it, but I got it to have an intake back fire and thats when it pushed the smoke out at that union. I have a feeling it a problem with the egr tube alignment, how is it supposed to fit in the hole? Right in the middle? As I stated earlier mine sits a little towards the front of the opening. Maybe it need to be bent back a little more towards the fire wall so it will allow the front to sit down more?

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Where'd you get that feeling from?

gtr_rider

iTrader: (50)

For whatever reason the VI's ive done we had to bend the EGR tube slightly towards the motor for it to fit right under the manifold.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

I pulled the upper off again and tried messing with the egr tube. I bent it forward and when I put the manifold back down it seemed to not sit even on the LIM so I bent it back to straight up and down....maybe I should bend it back because it did not seal when I put everything back on. Its still doing exactly the same thing. So after I tried that I loosend the upper bolts enough to take the 00 upper gasket off and slide the fourth gen one on. This did not work either, i am still having exactly the same problem.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Try what I said (if even to get the car running until you come up with a solution)

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

who sells block of plates? Will it cause me to throw a code if I keep the sensor plugged in?

matty

iTrader: (54)

Get it from Nissan. I tried making one from the stock feed tube (cut off plate and weld peice over the hole then re-bolt) Didnt come out all that well. You need the extra lip on the stock on.
I get a code every few months with NO EGR but its the "general code" so I dont know why
-matt

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

nissan makes EGR block off plates? Do you know the part numbers, I never knew they made anything like that.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

The factory block off plates won't help you in this situation. They are not just plates, they actually have somewhat of a "tube" piece on them meant to support the manifold, so they bolt onto the manifold and the EGR valve anyway, hence you still have the same problem.

Block-off plates like I'm referring to are two separate plates, one to cover the manifold and one to cover the EGR valve. They are custom. To the best of my knowledge I don't know of anyone that sells them, they would need to be made.

tsaulz

iTrader: (36)

You should be able to cut off the bottom of the factory block off plate so that it won't put upward pressure on the upper intake manifold.

Carson--I'll be in Cville tomorrow, so give me a call tonight if you think I might be able to help you out. Sorry to hear you are having problems--I ran the setup w/ a block off plate (that I could have given you,) but I warped the thing trying to modify it for my USIM.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

That's still extra work plus continued downtime waiting for the part to arrive. Making your own plates is extremely easy if you have anything that can cut metal.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

I'm going to give it another shot tomorrow, with bending the egr around in different positions. I have the EGR hooked up on my 95 will the 00VI and everything is fine, I don't know why I cannot get it to work on this one. It's such a pain just to put that tube on I really would like to make it work.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

I took off the upper again this weekend and drilled the fourth gen manifold gasket to make it fit the bolt holes better. I bent the EGR guide tube until it seemed to not be putting pressure on the front of the manifold. I put everything back together and it still doing the same thing! I got my dad to hold the revs steady around 1.5-2k and I sprayed Carb cleaner on the union of the LIM and the upper, and the revs raced when I did. So should I try a new fifth gen gasket or just block off the egr? One thing my friend tsaulz recomended was cutting the tip of the fourth gen egr guide tube off and hooking a heater hose to that then teeing into the brake booster line, he was saying tilly did that on his brother's 3.5 swapped car and everything ran fine. Should I try that, are there any possible negative effects? Will the manifold be sturdy enough with nothing holding it down in the rear?

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

That alternative method with the 4th gen tube actually sounds like a really good idea. I would honestly try that and put a block-off plate on the upper manifold and call it a day with less headaches. I may even try that myself next time I'm home with a spare tube.

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

holy crap this is frustrating. I sealed off the EGR on the Upper manifold and ran a hose from a hacked off egr tube to the Brake booster line. I put a 00 upper gasket back on the manifold and tried it again. It's still leaking!!!! Same thing revs go up and down and the it dies. If i try to hold the pedal steady it creates manifold backfires, and when I spray carb cleaner on it the revs race. So I pulled the manifold back off and added a bunch of rtv on the union of the upper and lower manifold. I tightened everything back up and then let it set up over night. I tried it again the next day and it did the same thing!!! I'm looking for dynamite if anyone has some. What could the problem be? Does anyone else have trouble getting the 4th gen LIM to seal to the 00 upper? Is it the same height as the 00 LIM? This is getting on my last nerve. I really don't know what else to do other than go back to stock. My 95 was not hard to get running with the 00VI but I also used the 00 lower too, on that one. Any advice?

DJ420

iTrader: (77)

I have a 00 lower available. So glad I didnt do this. KRRZ350 may be able to give some advise.. dunno.
DJ

speed racer

iTrader: (10)

Do not tap into the brake booster hose at all. That hose needs to be exclusive to the intake manifold. The only things you should be tapping into is the vacuum line next to where the pcv hose goes into in the middle of the manifold. The barb fitting on top of the manifold close to the tb is the only barb that need to be taken out and retapped with a 3/8" barb.

matty

iTrader: (54)

I used a 4th gen lower, with a 5th gen upper, 5th gen Manifold gasket, and I have NO problem getting it sealed fine since day one.

Did you drill your 00 Upper on each side to accomidate the side bolts ??

-matt