XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

before i start, this is more of a rant, but i am looking for advice. maybe this shouldnt be in this section, but you guys in here are usually more knowledgable than the whole rest of this forum.

ok so i went to the track tonight. and i knew i would run a bad time because of the timing/bogging issue i am having. i was so aggrivated with my results i didnt even wanna finish the rest of the runs i could have had.

run 1:
60 ft: 2.5
1/8th mph: 68
1/8th et : 10.7
1/4 mph: 86
1/4 et: 16.3

tun 2:
60 ft: 2.7
1/8th mph: 62
1/8 et: 11.2
1/4 mph : 76
1/4 et: 17.6

now before you bash me. i know how to drive. even if i didnt, 80mph trap speed? cmon. i autocross every weekend and drag race every weekend before my 3.5 swap. i ran 13.9's stock at 253k with just a 75 shot. i consistently pulled 2.0 60 ft's on street tires. maybe i am a bit rusty, but this is absurd.

so it is confirmed, something is horribly ****ed up. bad. ive driven 1.1k on this swap with no real driveability issues other than its slow. it sucks. i guess i will shoot timing with a timing light and have to re-do timing if it is off. does anyone know if that 'skipped tooth while initial cranking' how to by kkrz350 works? with taking off just the tensioner with the cover on and moving the crank a degree or something? ill look it up but was being curious if anyone did it.

things i have checked:

-tb voltage recalibrated
- re-grounded knock sensor
- ignition timing with snap on tool. it reads something stupid like 36 degrees from 3-5k then 15 at idle


oh and to make it worse, from launching it i pinched my oil pressure gauge's sending unit line and had to make some repairs to even get my car home it was pouring oil everywhere.

god ive had it with this car. spent so much time/money in it. i just wanna say **** it but i love it and i know once it is running right i will love it like i want to....sigh.

any tips with shooting timing or checking timing? im beat and upset about this, i need some rest.

slinky87

iTrader: (1)

sounds like your timing is way off im not to knowledgeable with the timing gear swaps into the 3.5 but i do know theres plent of room to throw your cams off a couple of degrees which would cause a similar problem before you do all that though do the timing light find TDC via the spark plug hole on cylinder 1 and mark your crank pulley and go from there. Best of luck to you

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

eh to get at cylinder 1 on a 3.5 you need remove the upper intake manifold anyway lol. timing light is easier. but yea ill prolly end up doing that also. i really want this to run good i am just getting fed up.

97_Roadrunner

iTrader: (2)

Damn! You are slow! It s*ck to hear that.
I manage to do 15.7 (very hot day) and I'm automatic with VQ30DE cams!

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

15.8 on auto here, and I have VQ30 cams too

But seriously, I don't know what you've done to check out your swap so far, but I'd definitely check timing, maybe do a compression/leakdown, check over fuel/ignition systems entirely.

Have you dyno'd to see what it's putting down?

slinky87

iTrader: (1)

you have to remove the UIM to get to the spark plugs on a 3.5 **** that ill turbo a vq30 then

95turbo gxe

iTrader: (25)

Yep this one has been loged in the book!

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

what are you talking about?

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

i tested compression in cylinder 1, it went right to 150. i then decided to put it at tdc while i was there and noticed from the crank pulley that the timing was off a link it appeared. so i did the skipped tooth how to by krrz350 and when i did it. when i first started it, it seemed to rev up much faster and just sounded faster on initial start up....then after a minute (i went to the engine to close hood and get my wallet to drive it) it felt back to revving slow and nothing changed, same slowness. i will try this again because i believe it just keeps jumping timing.

i really need a damn timing light though, i guess ill shell out the dough and buy one.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

I think you skipped step one in the instructions though. On a side not I'm not 100% sure that this will definitly work w/timing covers installed, but it really really should, and it's easy enough to try before ripping the cover off.

The timing being off should be confirmed via the ignition timing first. Shell out the $200 at autozone for a scanner that will show you the timing, return it right after if you really can't afford it (you'll love having it though, trust me)or have a local garage do it, or even slip a tech at nissan a couple bucks to do it on the side, it's much easier to just plug into the obdII port to check the ignition timing.

95turbo gxe

iTrader: (25)

Its been logged as the slowest 3.5 swap ever.

Nah man just kidding with you good luck with the fix

Torgus

iTrader: (10)

pink sock doctor???

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

Hang in there All you have left is adj timing@Dyno tune & youll be in the low 13's .Sh*& my cars still in pieces at the body shop, so I dont even know if my motor turns over.But I know when its all said & done low 12's 4 sure.I use a scan tool (much easier) also ckeck ks ohms & tps volts.

You lazy "tuner".lol The manifolds not that time consuming.
3.5 FTW

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

thanks for the encouragement accordingtou. youve helped me out a lot with my swap, same with krrz350. you guys both rock.

im going to compression test the rest of the cylinders, get a scan tool with ignition timing reading, and do krrz350's skipped tooth depending on how off mine is.

unfortunately my next day off isn't until tuesday. so until then i have nothing more to add unless someone else has some other advice. but tuesday i will reserve the day off to get this done...hopefully.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Another benefit of having a decent obdII scanner is that you can read the absolute tps %, which will tell you if something is going on with the tps from the modified drive-by-wire throttle body. (oh wait, you have pf tb?) But still, there are tons of benefits of having a decent scanner, best $200 I ever spent on a tool!
And yeah, definitly hang in there and don't do anything rash like lighting it on fire, it's so worth it trust me. Before my car would barely chirp second on crappy tires, now even with new tires when I bang 2nd it skips around like a drunk **** on prom night

DasYears

yeah dont give up, youll love the 3.5. on stock tires i can burnout into the rev limiter through 1,2 and a good bit of 3. it makes my day. but for the same reason, its hard as sh** to race anywhere but the track.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

But you have CVTC.

DasYears

i get cvtc, he gets 200-400 lbs less (depending on his car weight). so it ends up fairly even.

PS: you and the cvtc lately...

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I haven't run the #'s yet and well, we know he's underpowered, but the hp/lb would be interesting to run through.
Been reading/learning about it extensively lately. It's my new thing. I started here, good read. http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=262261

DasYears

yes, interesting read. well acquired info too it seems

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

That and nismology is always kicking my buttocks on AIM with knowledge so I thought I'd start trying to actually carry a decently useful technical convo with him.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

and I thought my 14.4 @ 98 was the slowest 3.5 run ever..

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

UPDATE PLEASE READ:

ok i got some numbers for you guys.

car before touching it:

vacuum at idle : 17.5
vacuum at 2.5 : 23.5
vacuum at 4k : 24

now...when i turned off my car, ever since my swap.. i hear an air rushing noise from the oil dipstick. when you pull it out, it rushes out fast and stops. so my friend and i were wondering if its sucking or blowing, which it shouldnt be doing either.

vacuum reading at dipstick : 7

now that got me stumped. my solution? new pcv.

put in the new pcv. re-do the pcv hose because i had it teed off the evap volume control to a vacuum source. so i redid it so the pcv goes straight to UIM.

results after doing this:

vacuum at idle : 7
vacuum at 2k : fluctuate between 7 and 13ish

pull out dipstick, pressure drops, put it in, builds pressure to 12 at idle.

my opinion? base timing. low vacuum is either caused my a leak on the intake manifold or a late valve opening. anyones opinion on this?

ps: odd how the vacuum got worse with re-routing the lines 'correctly' and a new pcv, eh?

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

bump for some help/advice.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

sorry to hear your troubles, thats just part of it man i've had/have my share of mine. Do you have the PF TB? can you tell me what your idle and WOT specs read after you re-adjusted? I am having trouble getting my tps in specs on my PF TB. thanks.

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

.5 idle, 4.010 wot

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

wtf is wrong with mine then, i must have a messed up TPS.

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

ok got some more readings today. maybe this large chunk of information can help. all numbers were pulled from a snap-on diagnostic scan tool.

ignition timing:
idle: 15, 9, 11, 13, 9 11, 13. drops right to 15 after a load and changes frequently
2k: 39
3k: 43
4k: 40, 41
5k: 41, 42

intake map: in/hg
idle: 15
2k: 8
3k: 7
4k: 9
5k: 7

load value:
idle: 35%
2k: 22%
3k: 24%
4k: 24%

airflow rate: g/s
idle: 5.54, 6.16
2k: 12.61
3k: 19.39

other readings at idle: (i do not under stand the short/long term fuel trim if someone can explain it to me. also, i find it odd the bank 1 readings are so low, but bank 2 is so high. can someone explain this also?)

short term fuel trim bank 1: -1.5%, 0, -3%
long term fuel trim bank 1: 2.3, 3.1 %
short term fuel trim bank 2: 23%, 21%, 22%
long term fuel trim bank 2: 9.3%
air intake temp: 141
coolant temp: 200
short term fuel trim B1-S2 : not used
short term fuel trim B2-S1 : 17.9, 21, 23

i dont know why, but im leaning towards a intake manifold leak. i want to do a smoke test on it to check for that before i continue to rip off my outer cover and completely redo the timing.

i tried the krrz350's timing skip tooth reset again, and i made it click twice, but i think the click noise i am hearing is just the tensioner guide slapping and it is not skipping a tooth. thus, it is not changing anything.

sigh, i wish i had some direction with this. i am trying my hardest.

my thoughts:
not timing. if timing was off my ignition timing would have to be off. ignition timing seems to be within parameters to me. i am leaning towards a vacuum leak. however the whole vacuum at the dipstick thing is really got me stumped.

made in china

iTrader: (7)

Vacuum at the dipstick?

Isn't that part of the PCV system drawing crankcase vapors out? SO there should be vacuum?? Or do you mean something else?

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

it is excessive vacuum like...really bad. much more than it should be. im going to get a 3.5 vacuum diagram and see if i should redo some of the lines i have routed.

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

nevermind i think im selling it.

here.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....83#post5890083

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

wtf?!!?!! gave up pretty quick there man.

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

yea well ive tried a bunch of ideas with little to no help. not going to deal with problems with something i spent a lot of money into and actually tried to do correctly.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

i guess man...if anything it'd make me more determined to get it right.

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

hey if someone wants to redo the timing for me ill pay them. i just dont have the time.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

I'm backed up for about 1-1.5 weeks but I sorta feel bad for you, if you wanna come up with a case of beer and some permetex grey the weekend after next we could get it worked out, you could come early in the morning and if need be you could crash at my house. The beer could be substituted with 2 hot girls who like to get dirty in a garage.

XJinCT

iTrader: (3)

i would greatly appreciate that man. if i still have it by then ill do this if no one buys it. id bring up beer and give you cash. trust me, i want to keep it when its running right, but i cant just keep wasting my time guessing what it is. ive used my own knowledge, those on this forum, and my own friends who arent morons. if you want to arrange a date, we can set this up.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

Damn I need to move to ct.

And yeah getting at that timing chain is such a *****. That was my biggest fear with the swap, having to take it all back out and apart. But...gotta do waht ya gotta do. It just seems like the tensioners are a weak link...
I still get worried one is gonna fail and my timing is gonna f*ck up.

DasYears

all the more reason to deal with wiring instead of timing chains. i still havent heard of anyone that f'd up a full swap

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

Meh that's more hard stuff to get ahold of. Too late now anyway.