VQ32 question
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,433
From: Montreal, Qc, Canada
VQ32 question
Hi guys its been a while. I recently started selling my VQ S13 in parts and gave my VQ35 to my brother. His max has been sitting for a while with an electrical problem (for the better part of a year, actually). Well after going through several wiring harnesses and basically checking everything around it fourteen times, we got off our asses, teared down the timing assembly and removed the transmission and axles.
Turns out the no start problem was the transmission mating surface not being clean enough (at all actually, full of calcium between the motor and trans bellhousing, and between the trans bellhousing and the starter). No matter how many "grounds" we made, it would not start. The timing was spot on, as usual.
Now listen to this carefully; anyone doing an auto->manual swap, or a simple tranny replacement, DO yourself a favor and clean the fawk out of the mating surfaces, there was even a TSB where the dealer robs you of 1000$CND to remove your trans, clean the surfaces, and put it back on.
It DOES NOT matter whether you put ground wires the size of your **** everywhere in your engine bay, it WILL NOT start. The mating surfaces between the engine and trans, and between the trans and starter, have to be mirror perfect. PLEASE take the extra five minutes to do this, the org is FULL of threads of guys doing tranny swaps, never to have their car start ever again and eventually selling it out of sheer frustration after changing a zillion sensors, wiring, coils, ECUs, and so on.
We actually came this close to selling it, but thankfully, my bro will be seeing just how good a time he can put down at the track with a 100% stock car (except for A/C delete) and a (working) VLSD. He'll see a 14.9, methinks.
Anyway, onto the reason for this thread. I already mentioned I gave him my VQ35 and nismo 262 cams. He's (just) started a 2-year mechanical training course (he's 18) where they'll show him piston clearances and and whatnot, so he's slowly going to be building up this motor.
He actually bought a clean 96 5-speed max last June out of sheer frustration that the other would not start (it's been sitting two concecutive winters in the snow already, so its getting pretty beat up, rust and all). Unfortunately he crashed the 96 last August, real bad (totalled). Luckily he's okay, but the motor and tranny are scrap metal (it was that bad). So he's going to keep the VQ30 crank, steel retainers, rear timing cover and cams.
So here's the recipe:
VQ35 Block
VQ30 Crank
Forged aftermarket VQ30 rods
VQ30 timing chain
(unknown) aftermarket headgasket (suggestion welcome)
Refreshed (but non-ported) VQ35 heads (they flow well enough for a 3.2)
VQ35HR pistons
Nismo 262 cams (retarded cam timing for better idle)
VQ35HR valve springs
New rings and all
Civic-style ITBs going straight to the front 95 grill over a shorter aftermarket radiator
This is a basic NA buildup. I want him to have a motor to learn working on. Someone recently put VQ35HR pistons into a 2002 VQ35 and surprisingly, because of the differences between the VQ35DE and VQ35HR heads, ended up somewhere between 11.5:1 and 12:1 compression.
So we hope that with the HR pistons and VQ30 crank, compression will be around 10.5:1 to 10.8:1. Is this reasonable to expect?
And finally; what are the differences between the VQ30DE and VQ30DET crankshafts? Is there a difference at all? Are both forged? When he goes turbo eventually he might upgrade to the VQ30DET crank (500$) if it's worth it.
He plans on setting the rev limiter at 7600 for a 7500 shift point (to run 40 degrees timing reliably). This will be streetable motor and he will take his time, problably wont see the track till late 2008 or 2009. Can the VQ35HR valve springs take 10.8 mm lift at 7600?
As for me I'll probably buy a stock early 90's miata next spring and have some slow, RWD fun.
Turns out the no start problem was the transmission mating surface not being clean enough (at all actually, full of calcium between the motor and trans bellhousing, and between the trans bellhousing and the starter). No matter how many "grounds" we made, it would not start. The timing was spot on, as usual.
Now listen to this carefully; anyone doing an auto->manual swap, or a simple tranny replacement, DO yourself a favor and clean the fawk out of the mating surfaces, there was even a TSB where the dealer robs you of 1000$CND to remove your trans, clean the surfaces, and put it back on.
It DOES NOT matter whether you put ground wires the size of your **** everywhere in your engine bay, it WILL NOT start. The mating surfaces between the engine and trans, and between the trans and starter, have to be mirror perfect. PLEASE take the extra five minutes to do this, the org is FULL of threads of guys doing tranny swaps, never to have their car start ever again and eventually selling it out of sheer frustration after changing a zillion sensors, wiring, coils, ECUs, and so on.
We actually came this close to selling it, but thankfully, my bro will be seeing just how good a time he can put down at the track with a 100% stock car (except for A/C delete) and a (working) VLSD. He'll see a 14.9, methinks.
Anyway, onto the reason for this thread. I already mentioned I gave him my VQ35 and nismo 262 cams. He's (just) started a 2-year mechanical training course (he's 18) where they'll show him piston clearances and and whatnot, so he's slowly going to be building up this motor.
He actually bought a clean 96 5-speed max last June out of sheer frustration that the other would not start (it's been sitting two concecutive winters in the snow already, so its getting pretty beat up, rust and all). Unfortunately he crashed the 96 last August, real bad (totalled). Luckily he's okay, but the motor and tranny are scrap metal (it was that bad). So he's going to keep the VQ30 crank, steel retainers, rear timing cover and cams.
So here's the recipe:
VQ35 Block
VQ30 Crank
Forged aftermarket VQ30 rods
VQ30 timing chain
(unknown) aftermarket headgasket (suggestion welcome)
Refreshed (but non-ported) VQ35 heads (they flow well enough for a 3.2)
VQ35HR pistons
Nismo 262 cams (retarded cam timing for better idle)
VQ35HR valve springs
New rings and all
Civic-style ITBs going straight to the front 95 grill over a shorter aftermarket radiator
This is a basic NA buildup. I want him to have a motor to learn working on. Someone recently put VQ35HR pistons into a 2002 VQ35 and surprisingly, because of the differences between the VQ35DE and VQ35HR heads, ended up somewhere between 11.5:1 and 12:1 compression.
So we hope that with the HR pistons and VQ30 crank, compression will be around 10.5:1 to 10.8:1. Is this reasonable to expect?
And finally; what are the differences between the VQ30DE and VQ30DET crankshafts? Is there a difference at all? Are both forged? When he goes turbo eventually he might upgrade to the VQ30DET crank (500$) if it's worth it.
He plans on setting the rev limiter at 7600 for a 7500 shift point (to run 40 degrees timing reliably). This will be streetable motor and he will take his time, problably wont see the track till late 2008 or 2009. Can the VQ35HR valve springs take 10.8 mm lift at 7600?
As for me I'll probably buy a stock early 90's miata next spring and have some slow, RWD fun.
Last edited by JClaw; Sep 20, 2007 at 04:20 AM.
Hi guys its been a while. I recently started selling my VQ S13 in parts and gave my VQ35 to my brother. His max has been sitting for a while with an electrical problem (for the better part of a year, actually). Well after going through several wiring harnesses and basically checking everything around it fourteen times, we got off our asses, teared down the timing assembly and removed the transmission and axles.
Turns out the no start problem was the transmission mating surface not being clean enough (at all actually, full of calcium between the motor and trans bellhousing, and between the trans bellhousing and the starter). No matter how many "grounds" we made, it would not start. The timing was spot on, as usual.
Now listen to this carefully; anyone doing an auto->manual swap, or a simple tranny replacement, DO yourself a favor and clean the fawk out of the mating surfaces, there was even a TSB where the dealer robs you of 1000$CND to remove your trans, clean the surfaces, and put it back on.
It DOES NOT matter whether you put ground wires the size of your **** everywhere in your engine bay, it WILL NOT start. The mating surfaces between the engine and trans, and between the trans and starter, have to be mirror perfect. PLEASE take the extra five minutes to do this, the org is FULL of threads of guys doing tranny swaps, never to have their car start ever again and eventually selling it out of sheer frustration after changing a zillion sensors, wiring, coils, ECUs, and so on.
We actually came this close to selling it, but thankfully, my bro will be seeing just how good a time he can put down at the track with a 100% stock car (except for A/C delete) and a (working) VLSD. He'll see a 14.9, methinks.
Anyway, onto the reason for this thread. I already mentioned I gave him my VQ35 and nismo 262 cams. He's (just) started a 2-year mechanical training course (he's 18) where they'll show him piston clearances and and whatnot, so he's slowly going to be building up this motor.
He actually bought a clean 96 5-speed max last June out of sheer frustration that the other would not start (it's been sitting two concecutive winters in the snow already, so its getting pretty beat up, rust and all). Unfortunately he crashed the 96 last August, real bad (totalled). Luckily he's okay, but the motor and tranny are scrap metal (it was that bad). So he's going to keep the VQ30 crank, steel retainers, rear timing cover and cams.
So here's the recipe:
VQ35 Block
VQ30 Crank
Forged aftermarket VQ30 rods
VQ30 timing chain
(unknown) aftermarket headgasket (suggestion welcome)
Refreshed (but non-ported) VQ35 heads (they flow well enough for a 3.2)
VQ35HR pistons
Nismo 262 cams (retarded cam timing for better idle)
VQ35HR valve springs
New rings and all
Civic-style ITBs going straight to the front 95 grill over a shorter aftermarket radiator
This is a basic NA buildup. I want him to have a motor to learn working on. Someone recently put VQ35HR pistons into a 2002 VQ35 and surprisingly, because of the differences between the VQ35DE and VQ35HR heads, ended up somewhere between 11.5:1 and 12:1 compression.
So we hope that with the HR pistons and VQ30 crank, compression will be around 10.5:1 to 10.8:1. Is this reasonable to expect?
And finally; what are the differences between the VQ30DE and VQ30DET crankshafts? Is there a difference at all? Are both forged? When he goes turbo eventually he might upgrade to the VQ30DET crank (500$) if it's worth it.
He plans on setting the rev limiter at 7600 for a 7500 shift point (to run 40 degrees timing reliably). This will be streetable motor and he will take his time, problably wont see the track till late 2008 or 2009. Can the VQ35HR valve springs take 10.8 mm lift at 7600?
As for me I'll probably buy a stock early 90's miata next spring and have some slow, RWD fun.
Turns out the no start problem was the transmission mating surface not being clean enough (at all actually, full of calcium between the motor and trans bellhousing, and between the trans bellhousing and the starter). No matter how many "grounds" we made, it would not start. The timing was spot on, as usual.
Now listen to this carefully; anyone doing an auto->manual swap, or a simple tranny replacement, DO yourself a favor and clean the fawk out of the mating surfaces, there was even a TSB where the dealer robs you of 1000$CND to remove your trans, clean the surfaces, and put it back on.
It DOES NOT matter whether you put ground wires the size of your **** everywhere in your engine bay, it WILL NOT start. The mating surfaces between the engine and trans, and between the trans and starter, have to be mirror perfect. PLEASE take the extra five minutes to do this, the org is FULL of threads of guys doing tranny swaps, never to have their car start ever again and eventually selling it out of sheer frustration after changing a zillion sensors, wiring, coils, ECUs, and so on.
We actually came this close to selling it, but thankfully, my bro will be seeing just how good a time he can put down at the track with a 100% stock car (except for A/C delete) and a (working) VLSD. He'll see a 14.9, methinks.
Anyway, onto the reason for this thread. I already mentioned I gave him my VQ35 and nismo 262 cams. He's (just) started a 2-year mechanical training course (he's 18) where they'll show him piston clearances and and whatnot, so he's slowly going to be building up this motor.
He actually bought a clean 96 5-speed max last June out of sheer frustration that the other would not start (it's been sitting two concecutive winters in the snow already, so its getting pretty beat up, rust and all). Unfortunately he crashed the 96 last August, real bad (totalled). Luckily he's okay, but the motor and tranny are scrap metal (it was that bad). So he's going to keep the VQ30 crank, steel retainers, rear timing cover and cams.
So here's the recipe:
VQ35 Block
VQ30 Crank
Forged aftermarket VQ30 rods
VQ30 timing chain
(unknown) aftermarket headgasket (suggestion welcome)
Refreshed (but non-ported) VQ35 heads (they flow well enough for a 3.2)
VQ35HR pistons
Nismo 262 cams (retarded cam timing for better idle)
VQ35HR valve springs
New rings and all
Civic-style ITBs going straight to the front 95 grill over a shorter aftermarket radiator
This is a basic NA buildup. I want him to have a motor to learn working on. Someone recently put VQ35HR pistons into a 2002 VQ35 and surprisingly, because of the differences between the VQ35DE and VQ35HR heads, ended up somewhere between 11.5:1 and 12:1 compression.
So we hope that with the HR pistons and VQ30 crank, compression will be around 10.5:1 to 10.8:1. Is this reasonable to expect?
And finally; what are the differences between the VQ30DE and VQ30DET crankshafts? Is there a difference at all? Are both forged? When he goes turbo eventually he might upgrade to the VQ30DET crank (500$) if it's worth it.
He plans on setting the rev limiter at 7600 for a 7500 shift point (to run 40 degrees timing reliably). This will be streetable motor and he will take his time, problably wont see the track till late 2008 or 2009. Can the VQ35HR valve springs take 10.8 mm lift at 7600?
As for me I'll probably buy a stock early 90's miata next spring and have some slow, RWD fun.
As far as that slow miata.... drop a 350 in dat bish
OT- man it kind of sucks to see how alot of you canada folks have to take breaks during winter. I always see you, jime, eng92 (think he's a canada dude as well) talkin about "yea so the plan for SPRING is...." lol. Down here in Miami we leave all the major projects (rear mount turbos, building motors, tranny and engine swaps, etc...) and track runs for winter! Too freakin hot to do that stuff in the summer, lol
Turns out the no start problem was the transmission mating surface not being clean enough (at all actually, full of calcium between the motor and trans bellhousing, and between the trans bellhousing and the starter). No matter how many "grounds" we made, it would not start. The timing was spot on, as usual.
Now listen to this carefully; anyone doing an auto->manual swap, or a simple tranny replacement, DO yourself a favor and clean the fawk out of the mating surfaces, there was even a TSB where the dealer robs you of 1000$CND to remove your trans, clean the surfaces, and put it back on.
Now listen to this carefully; anyone doing an auto->manual swap, or a simple tranny replacement, DO yourself a favor and clean the fawk out of the mating surfaces, there was even a TSB where the dealer robs you of 1000$CND to remove your trans, clean the surfaces, and put it back on.
Originally Posted by JClaw
Anyway, onto the reason for this thread. I already mentioned I gave him my VQ35 and nismo 262 cams. He's (just) started a 2-year mechanical training course (he's 18) where they'll show him piston clearances and and whatnot, so he's slowly going to be building up this motor.
He actually bought a clean 96 5-speed max last June out of sheer frustration that the other would not start (it's been sitting two concecutive winters in the snow already, so its getting pretty beat up, rust and all). Unfortunately he crashed the 96 last August, real bad (totalled). Luckily he's okay, but the motor and tranny are scrap metal (it was that bad). So he's going to keep the VQ30 crank, steel retainers, rear timing cover and cams.
So here's the recipe:
VQ35 Block
VQ30 Crank
Forged aftermarket VQ30 rods
VQ30 timing chain
(unknown) aftermarket headgasket (suggestion welcome)
Refreshed (but non-ported) VQ35 heads (they flow well enough for a 3.2)
VQ35HR pistons
Nismo 262 cams (retarded cam timing for better idle)
VQ35HR valve springs
New rings and all
Civic-style ITBs going straight to the front 95 grill over a shorter aftermarket radiator
This is a basic NA buildup. I want him to have a motor to learn working on. Someone recently put VQ35HR pistons into a 2002 VQ35 and surprisingly, because of the differences between the VQ35DE and VQ35HR heads, ended up somewhere between 11.5:1 and 12:1 compression.
So we hope that with the HR pistons and VQ30 crank, compression will be around 10.5:1 to 10.8:1. Is this reasonable to expect?
And finally; what are the differences between the VQ30DE and VQ30DET crankshafts? Is there a difference at all? Are both forged? When he goes turbo eventually he might upgrade to the VQ30DET crank (500$) if it's worth it.
He plans on setting the rev limiter at 7600 for a 7500 shift point (to run 40 degrees timing reliably). This will be streetable motor and he will take his time, problably wont see the track till late 2008 or 2009. Can the VQ35HR valve springs take 10.8 mm lift at 7600?
As for me I'll probably buy a stock early 90's miata next spring and have some slow, RWD fun.
He actually bought a clean 96 5-speed max last June out of sheer frustration that the other would not start (it's been sitting two concecutive winters in the snow already, so its getting pretty beat up, rust and all). Unfortunately he crashed the 96 last August, real bad (totalled). Luckily he's okay, but the motor and tranny are scrap metal (it was that bad). So he's going to keep the VQ30 crank, steel retainers, rear timing cover and cams.
So here's the recipe:
VQ35 Block
VQ30 Crank
Forged aftermarket VQ30 rods
VQ30 timing chain
(unknown) aftermarket headgasket (suggestion welcome)
Refreshed (but non-ported) VQ35 heads (they flow well enough for a 3.2)
VQ35HR pistons
Nismo 262 cams (retarded cam timing for better idle)
VQ35HR valve springs
New rings and all
Civic-style ITBs going straight to the front 95 grill over a shorter aftermarket radiator
This is a basic NA buildup. I want him to have a motor to learn working on. Someone recently put VQ35HR pistons into a 2002 VQ35 and surprisingly, because of the differences between the VQ35DE and VQ35HR heads, ended up somewhere between 11.5:1 and 12:1 compression.
So we hope that with the HR pistons and VQ30 crank, compression will be around 10.5:1 to 10.8:1. Is this reasonable to expect?
And finally; what are the differences between the VQ30DE and VQ30DET crankshafts? Is there a difference at all? Are both forged? When he goes turbo eventually he might upgrade to the VQ30DET crank (500$) if it's worth it.
He plans on setting the rev limiter at 7600 for a 7500 shift point (to run 40 degrees timing reliably). This will be streetable motor and he will take his time, problably wont see the track till late 2008 or 2009. Can the VQ35HR valve springs take 10.8 mm lift at 7600?
As for me I'll probably buy a stock early 90's miata next spring and have some slow, RWD fun.
Why a 3.2? Just to build something? Why not full 3.5 build?
As for the HR springs, with that lift at 7600 rpm I'd be double shimming them. Doing that, then yes, I believe the springs should do fine. I'll be able to physically confirm that in a week, but the modelling I've done suggests they'll be quite fine.
This engine will be only slightly more powerful than a DE-K with the same mods, IMO. But hey, sounds like a fun project. 
As for the compression ratio with HR pistons and DE heads, the person that did that did not determine the resulting compression ratio mathematically; he based it off of cranking PSI (dynamic compression). This method is not accurate for determining CR since cam specs/timing will throw this number off. There is no standard that says XXX PSI cranking pressure = YY:1 compression ratio. It's not even good for an approximation. All we can say for sure is that the cranking pressure with HR pistons is somewhat higher than with the stockers. The resulting CR? Someone needs to do the math.
The slightly higher CR is likely to be negated (or worse) by the shorter crank throw though. We really need numbers to deal with...
As for the compression ratio with HR pistons and DE heads, the person that did that did not determine the resulting compression ratio mathematically; he based it off of cranking PSI (dynamic compression). This method is not accurate for determining CR since cam specs/timing will throw this number off. There is no standard that says XXX PSI cranking pressure = YY:1 compression ratio. It's not even good for an approximation. All we can say for sure is that the cranking pressure with HR pistons is somewhat higher than with the stockers. The resulting CR? Someone needs to do the math.
The slightly higher CR is likely to be negated (or worse) by the shorter crank throw though. We really need numbers to deal with...
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,433
From: Montreal, Qc, Canada
The reason we are building a 3.2 is
1) I want him to tear down and rebuild a motor like it's nothing. He has the talent, he's gonna be quite the machine when he's older actually he already impresses the hell out of me.
2) Turbo. We might just build it for turbo, with lower compression right off the start, and run it for a year NA with crazy timing, and then run it turbo the year after. He wants to hang with bikes, a VQ32DET is the way to do it.
We have big plans for this car. Sometime down the road (5+ years from now), we are gonna tear it down completely, start everything from scratch, Ford 9-inch, cage, front/midship, full interior, Automatic 5-speed, steering mounted shifting, with a twin turbo 3.2 running 20+ psi of boost.
Actually we have big plans period. Around 30 or so we'll own a shop doing all kinds of crazy stuff, including but not limited to the above mentioned wheelie popping, externally stock looking max, big displacement NA VQ-powered miata, american muscle, RWD Hondas, VQ-powered dune buggey, and so on.
Popping a wheelie on the street, anywhere with dry pavement, fast and the furious style, has always been our dream. Tire technology has advanced to the point where it's possible, and who knows where it will be in 5 years. Overbuilding is quite the motto.
We're nuts, but in a good way.
1) I want him to tear down and rebuild a motor like it's nothing. He has the talent, he's gonna be quite the machine when he's older
actually he already impresses the hell out of me. 2) Turbo. We might just build it for turbo, with lower compression right off the start, and run it for a year NA with crazy timing, and then run it turbo the year after. He wants to hang with bikes, a VQ32DET is the way to do it.
We have big plans for this car. Sometime down the road (5+ years from now), we are gonna tear it down completely, start everything from scratch, Ford 9-inch, cage, front/midship, full interior, Automatic 5-speed, steering mounted shifting, with a twin turbo 3.2 running 20+ psi of boost.
Actually we have big plans period. Around 30 or so we'll own a shop doing all kinds of crazy stuff, including but not limited to the above mentioned wheelie popping, externally stock looking max, big displacement NA VQ-powered miata, american muscle, RWD Hondas, VQ-powered dune buggey, and so on.
Popping a wheelie on the street, anywhere with dry pavement, fast and the furious style, has always been our dream. Tire technology has advanced to the point where it's possible, and who knows where it will be in 5 years. Overbuilding is quite the motto.
We're nuts, but in a good way.
Last edited by JClaw; Sep 20, 2007 at 04:02 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,433
From: Montreal, Qc, Canada
I want to go the slow route with the miata (getting used to the car and all, doing diff and tires first). I might look into a B6T or something.
But dont worry, it will go 11 flat eventually.
But dont worry, it will go 11 flat eventually.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,433
From: Montreal, Qc, Canada
The RWD A32 WILL happen. It's just a question of when. Probably 6-7 years from now, but there is NO doubt about it. That car is not hitting the junkyard anytime soon.
i wasn't mocking you Jclaw. I can't even imagine what a RWD maxima would be like. thats gotta take so much fabrication it would basically be a maxima body and interior thats it though :-/
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