TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

I just wanted to say, firstly, as someone who has done countless DEK swaps the information on here about that particular swap is the WORST. There are like 400 threads of useless clutter. I may take it upon myself at a later date to just go through with doing a write up for the DEK swap, but as far as the vac lines go, and the wiring, etc....even for the 00vi, the information in the stickys wasnt useful AT ALL to me beyond a few obvious things. Just had to get that out the way, lol. [/rant]

Now to business, I realized as I did the last 3.5 swap I did, the mounting holes on the 3.5 head for the 95-01 EGR system are there. Which lead me to believe...if you used a 95 ECU, which doesnt monitor EVAP, and you implemented the EGR system from a 95-98 (vacuum regulated EGR, not electronic like the 99s), and even blocked off the guide tube that feeds the exhaust into the IM (Instead of custom welding one, or using a 6th gen motor setup), you could plug in the EGR temp sensor and solenoid and get absolutely no codes for anything right? Are there any codeless 3.5 swaps out there? What have you done? I dont mean your CEL bulb doesnt work, or you have a wiring problem and your lights never worked. I mean hook up to a scanner and actually pass emissions.

For the DEK, same thing, except you can just use the 2000 motor with EGR, and get no codes at all. I only included the DEK in my title because I wanted to legitimately rant, ha ha.

If theres a thread on different ways people got around codes on these swaps, link me please. Tired of hearing of and performing 3.5 swaps with codes.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

I'm looking at doing a 3.5 swap in the next few months and I already told myself I would do whatever was necessary to walk away without any codes. I don't need to pass a code check where I live, either, I just don't want my CEL on or be uncertain about whether the codes are legitimate or swap-caused.

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

Same here man. So far the guys that come to me for work all have paid extra somewhere to pass inspection, and come expecting, there to be codes after its done. So I dont go the extra mile for a codeless swap, unless its a DEK, but I'm interested in the codeless setup. Much like you. Just want to know whats unnecessary, as i think I have a clear idea of what is needed. Ive gotten rid of EVAP successfully with no codes witht he medthod mentioned above. EGR, unless EGR is in place the least I can have is a P1400 on a dek swap. Im assuming the same for the 3.5. Once I noticed you could mount the EGR valve on the 3.5 and it isnt in the way of anything, I was just curious who did this. Whats it like to implement EGR into an intake manifold or engine that isnt designed for it? Reduction of combustion chamber temps have probably been achieved via means other than pumping cooler,inert exhaust gases back into the CC. So I was wondering if the EGR temp sensor just needed to see if the EGR control solenoid and valve were working based on the temp change, and send that info back tot he ECU. If thats the case I was wondering if I could just block the EGR guide tube off that would feed the manifold.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I do not have a egr code and v/i'd it with a scan tool. all I did is plug in the sensor and tied the probe next to the header and it worked. as for the evap haven't hooked up the vac lines yet lazy but everything is there and ready to go maybe when it get warmer I'll try it out and post the results

also there is a guy on here that has a codeless swap but fab'd custom brackets and mounts for the evap and egr. I'll try to find his thread since it has some really good pic's and details

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

I was able to prevent any EGR codes on my old '95 with an 00VI and blocked off EGR by keeping the temp. sensor plugged in and just zip-tieing it in the engine bay. My EVAP was all in place and functioning, which IMO was easy and I didn't even need any brackets. This is exactly how I plan to proceed with a 3.5 swap (except maybe with a few nice brackets this time) and I will probably expirement with resistors or something to correct any problem codes that may arise.

ajcool2

iTrader: (43)

This guy has no codes with his 3.5 swap. http://forums.maxima.org/6653997-post91.html

mtrai760

iTrader: (19)

I was getting ready to post about the whole EGR issue soon. Here in WA, they just pull codes on OBDII emissions vehicles, no codes, and you pass emissions. All of the emissions testing stations are run by the state, so there is no one you can 'pay off' to pass. Having codes is not an option for me, and I am not swapping motors everytime I need to do emissions.

I have been researching ways around the EGR code in my spare time (which is not very much) for a few weeks now. Most of the advice I have seen is just plain wrong, but that is typical here. I have been waiting until I have time to download a 6th gen FSM and check out the EGR system on that car before posting. I do not know anyone with a 6th gen local to me to physically check it out myself.

Here is a picture of the 4th gen EGR system:


Here is a 2002 motor currently sitting in my garage, no EGR system:

Notice no mounting on the block


Does anyone have a good picture of the 6th gen EGR system? It would be nice to have this info all in one place.

If we can get some good, useful, correct info on this, I'll make this thread a sticky.

wirelessdude04

iTrader: (24)

^^^^ very very niceee

oldngivout

iTrader: (8)

I think this is what you mean............

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z...g?t=1235274521

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

OK, firstly, I dont know how guys are just "plugging it in". I've done this on ALL my swaps and even plugged in the EGR soloenoid. You still get an EGR flow code, or other EGR related code. The reason plugging it in DOES NOT work is the ecu expects to see a change when conditions call for it. If the Temp sensor doesnt show this CHANGE in temp, the ECU throws a code. What ECU are you guys using? I just dont see how you guys have no codes with just pluggin it in. Resistor wont work unless you use a resistor that varies based on temperature and shows the same resistance values the ecu expects to see.

EVAP is SIMPLE. If you have a 95 ecu, EVAP is GONE. yes plugging everything up and implementing it, also gets rid of it, but its clutter in the bay for me.

As for the guy that used the 08' motor, he cheated. That motor has everything our ECU expects to see.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

here's what I think. I've seen EGR codes pop up in 4th gens when the ports were simply clogged. I think just connecting the lines and pluggin in the harnesses wouldn't be enough, but I could be wrong.

I don't think anything negative would happen if you introduced EGR into an 02-03, because 04-07 have external EGRs. if you wanna play it safe, use a 4th gen EGR coupled with a 94 intake manifold, with a custom EGR tube (maybe the stock one works, I've never tried)

However, If you're looking for big power numbers, as I know you are, forego the EGR. It's a common practice of everyone in the boosted community to bypass or blockoff the EGR as a preliminary mod.

Best bet would be to look at the FSM (or let me know if you need one), an see what sort of wave or signal the EGR needs to make the ECU think it's ok.

Good luck, let me know if you need anything.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I am running a 97ecu and the ecu does see a change in temp from the probe thats what I have it tied to the header.

I have scanned my car 4 times since the swap and the only code I have is evap

btw as for for rigging a resistor you should be able to make a pyrometer work

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Me too...... EGR hardware, temp probe connected, no EGR on the 2002 manifold, no EGR codes. Now the 2004 and up UIMs have an EGR passage underneath the runners with ports into each runner to feed exhaust gases. You can see it in the 2004 FSM...

oldngivout

iTrader: (8)

I was going to use the 04 intake and plumb in the A32 EGR, but there was too much stuff in the way of my fuel rails.

tsaulz

iTrader: (36)

Tilley did it the best way, IMO, on my brother's 3.5 swap--fully functional EGR w/ no codes:

He mounted the egr hardware where it was on the 3.0--this was on an '02 or '03 engine. (Even if the bolt holes aren't there for the egr bracket, you could fab something up.) As I recall, the hardware wasn't attached to the block, but the tube coming from the rear manifold held it in place. Then, he cut the egr guide tube and attached a heater hose to the end. Next, he attached the other end of the heater hose to a T-fitting at the back of the intake manifold at the brake booster nipple.

This had no impact on braking, and the EGR functioned seamlessly for years (until it was removed for Hotshot headers).

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

heater hose is why tilley isn't around the forums anymore.

...

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

I hope you meant 04 because 94 sounds like something I dont even want to touch, lol.

Oh definitely, but i'm researching for an upcoming NA swap for someone that I want to do with no codes.

I definitely did that, and its a tricky *** signal. It changes based on the EGR's operating conditions. Its one thing to trick an ecu into thinking something it THERE, thats easy, but when the ECU keeps monitoring it and babysitting the damn system it becomes a pain, lol.

Im definitely going to try this before I go about xferring the 95 -98 EGR to the 02/03. Is there a spot in particular to go with? What did you secure it with? A clamp? I thought about just adding an EGR temp sensor bung to the rear header if thats all it needed. Im still so doubtful only because the ECU doesnt need to just SEE temp changes. Under a specific load, or driving condition, partial throttle IIRC, the EGR has to activate via ported vacuum/vacuum. If the temp doesnt raise during that condition, the ECU throws a code. Maybe with it always plugged in, the ECU is going to think the EGR is always working when it goes to check for it during partial throttle? Hmmm, maybe thats why it works depending on where you have it.

So you have EGR mounted but not connected to the manifold? I figured this was the route that would work best without actually having EGR dump into the manifold. Just block off the 4th gen feed tube, but have the sensors plugged in.

I was thinking about this too. If the 04 EGR system was in the rear how the 4th gens and 2000s were, it would have been so much more convenient.

All that and it was gone after the hotshot headers, lol. This is probably the 100% full proof method though. EGR is so ugly and its always RUSTED BAD.

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

*DEAD*

I gave him the benefit of the doubt and figured he meant something else. I cant believe exhaust temps wouldnt melt a rubber heater hose.

tsaulz

iTrader: (36)

There was no impact on the hose, and it functioned reliably--couldn't ask for more. My brother's car is in VA (where he need not get inspected), so he didn't need to keep EGR when he put on headers. But, if I were to put in a 3.5 out here in Cali, this is how I'd do the swap to maintain EGR.

JonBlz

iTrader: (11)

this thread is very interesting

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

2004 Max EGR:

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

I'll clean up my first post if this becomes the Codeless motor swap thread, lol.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

gfbvwrgbv

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

omg screw that clutter, I hate the EGR to death. It was the reason I couldnt pass emissions and ultimately one of my excuses for doing the 3.5 swap in the first place. I don't have an EGR mounted on my 02 motor w/ 95 Manual ECU although I believe I have the temperature sensor plugged in...havent seen it in awhile though now that I think about it. Anyway, my only codes are 2 for the EGR and one for the p/n switch, one for an 02 sensor. The EGR is the only one I feel like I couldnt get rid of.
luckily the CEL doesnt matter for my inspection

tsaulz

iTrader: (36)

Good info. Perhaps this hosing is similar to that Tilley used on my brother's swap; whatever hosing was used, it withstood the heat for years without any signs of damage.

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

Looks like the EGR temp sensor has to be mounted AFTER the electronic EGR solenoid.l I still wanna know if an EGR temp sensor reading the same voltage all the time would work. Im finding out from a lot of people that some get the codes some dont.

What up Kev!

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

FYI, your thread is a repost, I made one just like it a few years ago, and I also came to the conclusion that some get it and some don't, I was never able to get a definitive answer on the SRT's either, which are required in my state. At one point I even spent alot of time in the FSM and I almost had a wiring diagram completed in my head, it involved multiple rpm switches and relays to send the egr temp signal through two different resistors in order to mimic a fully functioniong egr. I got to a point I realized it was possible but would be so in-depth and complicated that it absolutely wasn't worth it, better to just put an egr in place.

As for that rubber hose, the super duper high temp stuff is uniqe, the aftermarket stuff I got at the mustang shop was blue on the outside and had a red inside layer, the taurus stuff was black on the outside and red on the inside also I believe, but either way tracking down a taurus in the junkyard is pretty easy to do and they have alot of that hose in the perfect size, just find it's egr hose and make it functional if you are that worried, and charge extra of course.

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

Werd, its not a repost though. Your thread sucked! You gotta call me sometime dude, been a minute.

PharoNDmist

iTrader: (4)

Hey TJ, who in the hell engine is that?????

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

Smartass. Some loser's engine.

JonBlz

iTrader: (11)

TJ that looks like my car in the back lol but its not it looks like my twin lol

TJ_Max

iTrader: (10)

So did a 3.5 swap on someones car and have the following code with a 95 5spd ecu in a 95.

P1400 Differential Pressure Feedback EGR Circuit Low input

Nothing else. One more code away from not having to pay $100+ for illegal inspections in NY. Where are you guys hangin this sensor?

oldngivout

iTrader: (8)

Would love to know this also.

I don't quite understand how this sensor can be tricked into sending a variable signal to the ECU, unless it can be allowed to change temperature while operating. If simply attached to the exhaust manifold, or even inserted into the exhaust stream somehow, its value would never change while operating. According to what the ECU expects, it will not always be a constant value. If I'm not mistaken, that's how it operates in the EGR guide tube.

maxprivate

iTrader: (12)

I know this is an old thread but most guys I know leave the sensor in between where the knock sensor would go on the 3.0 and 3.5 swap. I think this sensor is a thermistor, which would change resistance based on temperature. If this is correct then the heat from the engine would do the trick.
My question is, does the evap purge canister and solenoid need to be left connected with vacuum?

I’ll see if I throw any Egr codes when my I have my car back in my possession. I have deleted EGR in Nistune using 95 ecu and 5speed swapped.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

I tied my EGR temp sensor around a fuel or evap hose.

maxprivate

iTrader: (12)

Hey bud,

is your other EGR stuff hooked up? evap canister purge valve, Evap canister solenoid valve with vac lines?
what ECU are you using?

Im hearing guys say a 95 FED spec doesn’t monitor evap stuff and it doesn’t know it exist. But not sure how true that is, and if it’ doesn’t monitor Evap, then why still have the EGR temp sensor tied in.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

Hey,

Of the EGR system the EGR Solenoid (green one) and EGR temp sensor are left connected.
All EVAP parts are still connected.
Im using a 95 ECU.

EGR is a separate system from EVAP.
EGR feeds exhaust gas back to the engine, where EVAP feeds fuel vapors from the gas tank back to the engine. They do similar things but work independently of each other.

EGR temp sensor is left plugged in because the ECU will throw a code if it is removed.

I have verified on multiple ECUs that the 95 does not have EVAP monitors. The 95 had a different 'dumber' canister located in the engine bay.

maxprivate

iTrader: (12)

Oh I see. That’s what Krismax meant then by “having the entire EGR system in the engine bay” this is what the 95 Fed spec has then if I’m not mistaken. I’m using a 95 Fed ecu and did the Egr delete in Nistune. I have to check and see what code is coming up when I have the car back. Last time I remember it was EGT code in Nistune but I didn’t have an EGR temp sensor plugged in at the time. So I think it was that, I have that plugged in now and hanging in between the engine.

Thanks for clearing that up, I thought they were the same.

Can you tell me how you have your evap canister connected and the evap canister purge control valve? I think they still need vacuum if 3.5 swapped. Included a pic of it. I’m missing the black purge control valve, I’m trying to find one. Not sure if I even need it to not throw a code.

I know that green EGR solenoid needs vacuum too, I have that plugged in too. Why does Evap stuff have to be connected if the 95 ECU doesn’t monitor that? How will it throw a code if it doesn’t monitor that Evap stuff or know it exists?

He ( krismax) also said he wired in 2, 100 ohm,10 watt resisters together to replace the EGR solenoid but didn’t say which one. Trying to find out from him.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

The 95 max only has one solenoid it opens the EGR and the 95 EVAP. The EGR 95 solenoid is dual use.



I don't know how many times i have to say this.Ditch the EVAP and put it on your bicycle ,maybe it will work on that.

And the EVAP is all in the engine bay from a 95 max. This isn't this way on a 96-99.