Ampire's VQ35 simple rebuild/ 4g swap log
11-15-2010, 07:40 PM
#1
Ampire's VQ35 simple rebuild/ 4g swap log
I figured I'd start a thread to chronicle my swap and ask questions as I go along. Maybe this will help other people later and it will definitely help me, I'll be the first to admit I'm a "noob".
I got this motor from car-part.com from a local salvage yard, 2002 Maxima VQ35 at 81,000 miles. I plan to replace the gaskets from the head gasket up, use ARP head studs, NWP phenolic intake spacers, VIAS blockoff plate, IACV adapter, 3.5 cams with stephen max's adapter, SAFC2.
I will be using the 3.0 timing setup.
The wiring harness on this motor was cut up and the heater hoses are mostly cut as well. Other damage I noticed was the VQ35 oil cooler assy. part which the oil filter screws into had bent up pipes, because the motor sat on the backside in the warehouse. I re-bent the pipes back so I could get the lower oil pan off for my inspection. Also, because the motor sat on its backside, there was oil in the rear cylinder's spark plug holes. This is not a big deal, I figure the valve cover gasket/grommets just leak after sitting like that for some time. I am replacing these gaskets anyway.
The motor cranks over smoothly when I turn the crankshaft pulley. There are no metal shavings in the oil pan. Overall it looks in good shape.
Here are pictures of the motor with the wiring harness and upper intake manifold removed:
Here is the oil cooler assy. part
I don't trust it because when I bent things back, I heard some cracking noises where the pipe meets the assembly.
I got this motor from car-part.com from a local salvage yard, 2002 Maxima VQ35 at 81,000 miles. I plan to replace the gaskets from the head gasket up, use ARP head studs, NWP phenolic intake spacers, VIAS blockoff plate, IACV adapter, 3.5 cams with stephen max's adapter, SAFC2.
I will be using the 3.0 timing setup.
The wiring harness on this motor was cut up and the heater hoses are mostly cut as well. Other damage I noticed was the VQ35 oil cooler assy. part which the oil filter screws into had bent up pipes, because the motor sat on the backside in the warehouse. I re-bent the pipes back so I could get the lower oil pan off for my inspection. Also, because the motor sat on its backside, there was oil in the rear cylinder's spark plug holes. This is not a big deal, I figure the valve cover gasket/grommets just leak after sitting like that for some time. I am replacing these gaskets anyway.
The motor cranks over smoothly when I turn the crankshaft pulley. There are no metal shavings in the oil pan. Overall it looks in good shape.
Here are pictures of the motor with the wiring harness and upper intake manifold removed:
Here is the oil cooler assy. part
I don't trust it because when I bent things back, I heard some cracking noises where the pipe meets the assembly.
Last edited by ampire; 11-15-2010 at 07:51 PM.
11-15-2010, 07:50 PM
#2
Here is the diagram for the oil cooler setup (courtesy parts):
Can I/should I just use the 3.0's setup? I don't remember seeing the two pipes and hoses coming off (21308 A and B) and I am pretty sure there is no oil cooler on the 3.0 setup. Is this recommended?
Can I/should I just use the 3.0's setup? I don't remember seeing the two pipes and hoses coming off (21308 A and B) and I am pretty sure there is no oil cooler on the 3.0 setup. Is this recommended?
Last edited by ampire; 11-15-2010 at 07:57 PM.
11-15-2010, 08:09 PM
#4
Also I got some rust on the bottom of the lower oil pan, thats the only rust on the whole thing (besides the headers). I will have a patch welded over it by a buddy probably just to be sure, if that doesn't turn out well I'll buy a new one.
Last edited by ampire; 11-15-2010 at 08:13 PM.
11-15-2010, 11:22 PM
#6
ah i see so you wanted to keep the oil cooler. i took mine off when i did my swap, well still in the process. just looked like it was going to be too tight of a fit with the hose and exhisting neck on the thermostat. i did like the idea of the oil being cooled though.
seems like youre making some good progress
seems like youre making some good progress
11-16-2010, 05:21 AM
#8
11-16-2010, 07:22 AM
#9
Since your taking your time and going to remove the lim I would shave the injectors bumps and get some type of headers whether they be shorty to full lenght as it's so much easier to do it now while the motor is out. Thats if your plans do not include a turbocharger down the road.
11-16-2010, 07:36 AM
#10
Since your taking your time and going to remove the lim I would shave the injectors bumps and get some type of headers whether they be shorty to full lenght as it's so much easier to do it now while the motor is out. Thats if your plans do not include a turbocharger down the road.
Definitely taking my time. This things probably gonna go in like January if not later. As always I appreciate your advice. I was planning on just running the headers off my vq30. In the mean time, I'm just gonna leave these 3.5 headers on for convenience with my hoist setup. What do you mean by shave the injector bumps? I don't plan on going turbo. I may get a vortech setup later.
11-16-2010, 08:12 AM
#11
Looks like your on the right track, 3.0 headers will work great, I actually still have mine installed. For the oil 'cooler' I wouldnt worry about that, its actually there to help warm up the oil during cold start, after that its actually keeping your oil closer to coolant temperature, which I dont think thats a good thing on an engine thats going to be raced a bit.
11-16-2010, 10:48 AM
#13
When you pull the lim flip it over and look at the injectors you'll see what I am talking about.
If your looking to SC the car than headers would be a nice easy upgrade since the motor is out but no a requirement
If your looking to SC the car than headers would be a nice easy upgrade since the motor is out but no a requirement
11-16-2010, 06:52 PM
#17
11-16-2010, 07:13 PM
#18
Thanks I appreciate your suggestions!
Would I get these from courtesy parts as OEM HR or are these aftermarkets made for the VQ35HR. Do you guys have a suggestion for an overall gasket "kit" manufacturer? I used felpro before and it was okay. I will need to do valve cover gaskets, misc stuff, etc...
Would I get these from courtesy parts as OEM HR or are these aftermarkets made for the VQ35HR. Do you guys have a suggestion for an overall gasket "kit" manufacturer? I used felpro before and it was okay. I will need to do valve cover gaskets, misc stuff, etc...
Last edited by ampire; 11-16-2010 at 07:20 PM.
11-16-2010, 09:52 PM
#21
Mastercater you might be refering to DaveB on here, alot of us get our nissan parts through him.
Ampire, these are OEM parts, HR head bolts and HR head gasket, just have to make very sure they are HR. The pdf I posted from JWT shows how you can identify if you have HR stuff. The HR gasket is two layer with a fire ring around the cylinders.
As for misc gaskets n stuff, rubber is rubber, id get the cheapest you can find. I did.
Ampire, these are OEM parts, HR head bolts and HR head gasket, just have to make very sure they are HR. The pdf I posted from JWT shows how you can identify if you have HR stuff. The HR gasket is two layer with a fire ring around the cylinders.
As for misc gaskets n stuff, rubber is rubber, id get the cheapest you can find. I did.
11-17-2010, 05:20 AM
#24
Okay so
front: http://www.courtesyparts.com/11044a-gasket-cylinder-head-350z-z33-04/2007-p-614390.html?cPath=714_715_716_720
rear: http://www.courtesyparts.com/11044-g...14_715_716_720
and
16 x http://www.courtesyparts.com/11056-b...14_715_716_720
Makes it hard to just get the complete gasket kit, so I guess I'll price out the individual gaskets.
Edit: Price of individual gaskets et al is $364.32 and thats with the VQ35HR head gaskets and head bolts and other things. I think I would be better off just buying the stock 2002 rebuild kit and then buying the 3.0 timing gaskets and oil pan gaskets seperate. If nothing else I'd be insured against forgetting little orings and stuff like that.
front: http://www.courtesyparts.com/11044a-gasket-cylinder-head-350z-z33-04/2007-p-614390.html?cPath=714_715_716_720
rear: http://www.courtesyparts.com/11044-g...14_715_716_720
and
16 x http://www.courtesyparts.com/11056-b...14_715_716_720
Makes it hard to just get the complete gasket kit, so I guess I'll price out the individual gaskets.
Edit: Price of individual gaskets et al is $364.32 and thats with the VQ35HR head gaskets and head bolts and other things. I think I would be better off just buying the stock 2002 rebuild kit and then buying the 3.0 timing gaskets and oil pan gaskets seperate. If nothing else I'd be insured against forgetting little orings and stuff like that.
Last edited by ampire; 11-17-2010 at 06:14 AM.
11-17-2010, 09:03 AM
#25
It's not only that they can be reused. I'll just let this quote from an article explain:
"During engine assembly or maintenance, a bolt must be installed by torqueing it into place. Due to the head bolt’s design, it has to be rotated into its slot in order to engage the threads and secure it into place. This process creates both twisting force and a vertical clamping force, which means that when the cylinders within the engine’s combustion chamber begin accumulating load, the bolt will both stretch and twist. Because the bolt has to react to two different forces simultaneously, its capacity to secure the head is slightly reduced and it forms a less reliable seal in high-powered engines.
By contrast, a head stud can be tightened into place without any direct clamping force applied through the tightening. A stud can be threaded into a slot up to “finger tightness,” or the degree to which it would be tightened by hand. Afterward, the cylinder head is installed and a nut is torqued into place against the stud. The nut torque provides the clamping force, rather than the torque of the fastener itself, and the rotational force is avoided entirely. Because the stud is torqued from a relaxed state, the pressure from the nut will make it stretch only along the vertical axis without a concurrent twisting load. The result is a more evenly distributed and accurate torque load compared to that of the head bolt. This ultimately translates into higher reliability and a lower chance of head gasket failure."
"During engine assembly or maintenance, a bolt must be installed by torqueing it into place. Due to the head bolt’s design, it has to be rotated into its slot in order to engage the threads and secure it into place. This process creates both twisting force and a vertical clamping force, which means that when the cylinders within the engine’s combustion chamber begin accumulating load, the bolt will both stretch and twist. Because the bolt has to react to two different forces simultaneously, its capacity to secure the head is slightly reduced and it forms a less reliable seal in high-powered engines.
By contrast, a head stud can be tightened into place without any direct clamping force applied through the tightening. A stud can be threaded into a slot up to “finger tightness,” or the degree to which it would be tightened by hand. Afterward, the cylinder head is installed and a nut is torqued into place against the stud. The nut torque provides the clamping force, rather than the torque of the fastener itself, and the rotational force is avoided entirely. Because the stud is torqued from a relaxed state, the pressure from the nut will make it stretch only along the vertical axis without a concurrent twisting load. The result is a more evenly distributed and accurate torque load compared to that of the head bolt. This ultimately translates into higher reliability and a lower chance of head gasket failure."
11-17-2010, 09:57 AM
#26
It's not only that they can be reused. I'll just let this quote from an article explain:
"During engine assembly or maintenance, a bolt must be installed by torqueing it into place. Due to the head bolt’s design, it has to be rotated into its slot in order to engage the threads and secure it into place. This process creates both twisting force and a vertical clamping force, which means that when the cylinders within the engine’s combustion chamber begin accumulating load, the bolt will both stretch and twist. Because the bolt has to react to two different forces simultaneously, its capacity to secure the head is slightly reduced and it forms a less reliable seal in high-powered engines.
By contrast, a head stud can be tightened into place without any direct clamping force applied through the tightening. A stud can be threaded into a slot up to “finger tightness,” or the degree to which it would be tightened by hand. Afterward, the cylinder head is installed and a nut is torqued into place against the stud. The nut torque provides the clamping force, rather than the torque of the fastener itself, and the rotational force is avoided entirely. Because the stud is torqued from a relaxed state, the pressure from the nut will make it stretch only along the vertical axis without a concurrent twisting load. The result is a more evenly distributed and accurate torque load compared to that of the head bolt. This ultimately translates into higher reliability and a lower chance of head gasket failure."
"During engine assembly or maintenance, a bolt must be installed by torqueing it into place. Due to the head bolt’s design, it has to be rotated into its slot in order to engage the threads and secure it into place. This process creates both twisting force and a vertical clamping force, which means that when the cylinders within the engine’s combustion chamber begin accumulating load, the bolt will both stretch and twist. Because the bolt has to react to two different forces simultaneously, its capacity to secure the head is slightly reduced and it forms a less reliable seal in high-powered engines.
By contrast, a head stud can be tightened into place without any direct clamping force applied through the tightening. A stud can be threaded into a slot up to “finger tightness,” or the degree to which it would be tightened by hand. Afterward, the cylinder head is installed and a nut is torqued into place against the stud. The nut torque provides the clamping force, rather than the torque of the fastener itself, and the rotational force is avoided entirely. Because the stud is torqued from a relaxed state, the pressure from the nut will make it stretch only along the vertical axis without a concurrent twisting load. The result is a more evenly distributed and accurate torque load compared to that of the head bolt. This ultimately translates into higher reliability and a lower chance of head gasket failure."
11-17-2010, 10:34 AM
#27
The only failure I have heard from using HR is only one, was a built Z which had head lift at 620+ whp. No one else has had failure with them. There is a thread on here with alot of discussion between TTY bolts and standard ARP's. Pretty much everyone concludes HR bolts are superior. I used them on my motor.
11-17-2010, 12:36 PM
#28
FWIW, my old 405WHP engine had 2005 350Z head gaskets and HR head bolts, and cyl #1 blew out last Nov. 21st. Water in the oil and out the exhaust port. I haven't torn it down yet - but that's why I went to ARP head studs. Also went with ARP main studs on the girdle. I guess that's two failures...
11-17-2010, 12:41 PM
#29
FWIW, my old 405WHP engine had 2005 350Z head gaskets and HR head bolts, and cyl #1 blew out last Nov. 21st. Water in the oil and out the exhaust port. I haven't torn it down yet - but that's why I went to ARP head studs. Also went with ARP main studs on the girdle. I guess that's two failures...
11-17-2010, 02:38 PM
#31
Okay, pulled the rear valve cover just to take a look at the cams and valves. Looks okay, there is what looks like a bit of surface rust on the camshaft (not on any lobes, just on those two ring areas), as shown in the photo. I'll put some oil on it for now and when I work on it this weekend I'll clean it up. Otherwise looks good.
Hell yeah. I wanted the experience...
Hell yeah. I wanted the experience...
Last edited by ampire; 11-17-2010 at 02:43 PM.
11-17-2010, 03:03 PM
#32
Another important tip, go to ur local parts store and find assembly lube, its in a see through small bottle, with red liquid. Thats the best thing ever!, when you put your engine back together, put that stuff all over the cams, timing chain, sprockets, everywhere that has movement. Once you crank the engine for the first time, you shouldnt hear a single sound. 1st 3.5 I did, when we started her up, it sounded like it was going to blow up, timing, cams, everything was making noise. Then used the lube for the rest of the builds, not a noise.
11-17-2010, 03:39 PM
#33
Ditto front valve cover. Machined surfaces look great, small rust rings. Cleaned them up with a shop towel and poured some oil over the works for now to stop any moisture. Thanks for the tip on the assembly lube.
This is my first motor build and swap ever so I like the suggestions. I will be ordering the gasket rebuild kit from courtesy parts for now and I'll probably just use the head gasket that comes with that, buy the HR head bolts and call it a day.
Any problems with buying a generic timing chain kit like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=360090325856
This is my first motor build and swap ever so I like the suggestions. I will be ordering the gasket rebuild kit from courtesy parts for now and I'll probably just use the head gasket that comes with that, buy the HR head bolts and call it a day.
Any problems with buying a generic timing chain kit like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=360090325856
Last edited by ampire; 11-17-2010 at 04:28 PM.
11-17-2010, 04:46 PM
#34
Another important tip, go to ur local parts store and find assembly lube, its in a see through small bottle, with red liquid. Thats the best thing ever!, when you put your engine back together, put that stuff all over the cams, timing chain, sprockets, everywhere that has movement. Once you crank the engine for the first time, you shouldnt hear a single sound. 1st 3.5 I did, when we started her up, it sounded like it was going to blow up, timing, cams, everything was making noise. Then used the lube for the rest of the builds, not a noise.
11-17-2010, 08:49 PM
#36
11-18-2010, 02:46 AM
#37
I've never seen anyone start a motor dry lube or not. When I did my truck I attached a drill to the oil pump and spun it by hand till oil pumped it's way to the rocker arms. Another reason it helps to get the tension on the chain and stop the rattle on the 1st start and possible causing you to jump a tooth from the tq of the starter
Last edited by t6378tp; 11-18-2010 at 02:51 AM.
11-18-2010, 05:19 AM
#38
Okay good to hear. Any thoughts on the VQ35DE OEM gasket set that courtesy sells and the ebay timing chain kits? Its cheaper to get a complete kit than to buy the vq30 individual tensioners and some of the tensioners should probably be replaced as a preventitive measure. Ebay timing kits are ~$150
Also, okay to use HR bolts with the OEM VQ35DE head gaskets? I decided to just simplify the order and just buy the "Engine Overhaul Kit" gasket set.
Also, okay to use HR bolts with the OEM VQ35DE head gaskets? I decided to just simplify the order and just buy the "Engine Overhaul Kit" gasket set.
Last edited by ampire; 11-18-2010 at 07:10 AM.
11-18-2010, 08:40 AM
#39
Okay good to hear. Any thoughts on the VQ35DE OEM gasket set that courtesy sells and the ebay timing chain kits? Its cheaper to get a complete kit than to buy the vq30 individual tensioners and some of the tensioners should probably be replaced as a preventitive measure. Ebay timing kits are ~$150
Also, okay to use HR bolts with the OEM VQ35DE head gaskets? I decided to just simplify the order and just buy the "Engine Overhaul Kit" gasket set.
Also, okay to use HR bolts with the OEM VQ35DE head gaskets? I decided to just simplify the order and just buy the "Engine Overhaul Kit" gasket set.
Me personally, I would not trust a tensioner from ebay, I would get that straight from nissan, although its a simple design I still wouldnt trust ebay for such an important piece.
11-18-2010, 09:34 AM
#40
I am really debating even changing my head gaskets. Everything looks so clean on this thing and I have no idea when/if I will be boosting. I might just chicken out on that and save some $. I've never done a head gasket so I am worried I would mess up, also I don't trust the torque wrench I have (Click kind). I haven't seen any signs of a bad HG.