Custom intake manifold thread. Build, dyno gains.
02-22-2011, 11:09 AM
#41
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Hopefully there will be more to come... Head is full of ideas and I have the means. 
The main downfall of this IM is the stock length and width runners. It is made for mid/low RPM power and shorter runners that taper towards the plenum would be hugely beneficial to making power up top.
The main downfall of this IM is the stock length and width runners. It is made for mid/low RPM power and shorter runners that taper towards the plenum would be hugely beneficial to making power up top.
02-22-2011, 12:29 PM
#42
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Hopefully there will be more to come... Head is full of ideas and I have the means.
The main downfall of this IM is the stock length and width runners. It is made for mid/low RPM power and shorter runners that taper towards the plenum would be hugely beneficial to making power up top.
The main downfall of this IM is the stock length and width runners. It is made for mid/low RPM power and shorter runners that taper towards the plenum would be hugely beneficial to making power up top.
02-22-2011, 12:34 PM
#43
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When it comes to porting these heads, they already flow amazingly stock (although exhaust isn't too great) and SG motorsports has proven major power losses in lowend/midrange with minimal topend gains on a mild engine like mine using ported heads.
I do however already have BC S2 (264/10.8) cams waiting to go in. Just waiting on some 6gen valve covers, HR springs/shims, timing chain tensioner/guide, revup oil pump, and arp rod bolts to come in the mail.
02-22-2011, 12:41 PM
#44
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That would do nothing to correct the length of the runners, but it's not far from my plans.
When it comes to porting these heads, they already flow amazingly stock (although exhaust isn't too great) and SG motorsports has proven major power losses in lowend/midrange with minimal topend gains on a mild engine like mine using ported heads.
I do however already have BC S2 (264/10.8) cams waiting to go in. Just waiting on some 6gen valve covers, HR springs/shims, timing chain tensioner/guide, revup oil pump, and arp rod bolts to come in the mail.
When it comes to porting these heads, they already flow amazingly stock (although exhaust isn't too great) and SG motorsports has proven major power losses in lowend/midrange with minimal topend gains on a mild engine like mine using ported heads.
I do however already have BC S2 (264/10.8) cams waiting to go in. Just waiting on some 6gen valve covers, HR springs/shims, timing chain tensioner/guide, revup oil pump, and arp rod bolts to come in the mail.
Do you get the same loss down low with this custom IM like you would with a stock VIAS/SSIM gutted IM?
I'm deffinately interested in one of these if you decide to make more. Keep up the great work!
02-22-2011, 12:48 PM
#45
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Gotcha. I figured the cams would help up top since the IM is low/midrange oriented.. That's why I asked.
Do you get the same loss down low with this custom IM like you would with a stock VIAS/SSIM gutted IM?
I'm deffinately interested in one of these if you decide to make more. Keep up the great work!
Do you get the same loss down low with this custom IM like you would with a stock VIAS/SSIM gutted IM?
I'm deffinately interested in one of these if you decide to make more. Keep up the great work!
The cams will of course help up top, but the restriction of intake runner length/diameter can not be alleviated by anything but changing those factors.
02-22-2011, 12:58 PM
#46
Any reason why you went with such mild cams?
You seem like you know what you're doing.
How about specing a custom cam for your application.
I believe, with no evidence of course, that the camshafts are what is holding back the VQ35 from producing very impressive NA power.
You seem like you know what you're doing.
How about specing a custom cam for your application.
I believe, with no evidence of course, that the camshafts are what is holding back the VQ35 from producing very impressive NA power.
02-22-2011, 01:02 PM
#47
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Any reason why you went with such mild cams?
You seem like you know what you're doing.
How about specing a custom cam for your application.
I believe, with no evidence of course, that the camshafts are what is holding back the VQ35 from producing very impressive NA power.
You seem like you know what you're doing.
How about specing a custom cam for your application.
I believe, with no evidence of course, that the camshafts are what is holding back the VQ35 from producing very impressive NA power.
Otherwise, I was holding out for something 270+ duration and 11+mm lift... but these fell into my lap BNIB for an amazingly low price that could not be passed up. Custom spec'd cams are often a bad deal because 99% of the time it's a guy with a grinder making them when even CNC machines at at the limit of their resolution getting the slope right. It would also be very expensive, and as always this is a budget build.
Also just want to note that our little shorty headers made by cattman/obx will VERY quickly become a restriction with bigger cams and NA power above 300whp anyway. Even at the 300whp point, people are gaining 20+whp going from cattman-style headers to long tubes on the RWD version...
02-22-2011, 01:34 PM
#48
Well firstly it's my daily driver.
Otherwise, I was holding out for something 270+ duration and 11+mm lift... but these fell into my lap BNIB for an amazingly low price that could not be passed up. Custom spec'd cams are often a bad deal because 99% of the time it's a guy with a grinder making them when even CNC machines at at the limit of their resolution getting the slope right. It would also be very expensive, and as always this is a budget build.
Also just want to note that our little shorty headers made by cattman/obx will VERY quickly become a restriction with bigger cams and NA power above 300whp anyway. Even at the 300whp point, people are gaining 20+whp going from cattman-style headers to long tubes on the RWD version...
Otherwise, I was holding out for something 270+ duration and 11+mm lift... but these fell into my lap BNIB for an amazingly low price that could not be passed up. Custom spec'd cams are often a bad deal because 99% of the time it's a guy with a grinder making them when even CNC machines at at the limit of their resolution getting the slope right. It would also be very expensive, and as always this is a budget build.
Also just want to note that our little shorty headers made by cattman/obx will VERY quickly become a restriction with bigger cams and NA power above 300whp anyway. Even at the 300whp point, people are gaining 20+whp going from cattman-style headers to long tubes on the RWD version...
Maybe try using a header calculator program and figure out the proper primaries, what steps to make and collector length. Big gains are to be had with properly designed headers like you stated as well.
I wanted to make some custom long tubes for my car but dont have the cash for the tuning equipment I would need to make optimum power.
02-22-2011, 02:16 PM
#49
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I forgot you daily drove this car.
Maybe try using a header calculator program and figure out the proper primaries, what steps to make and collector length. Big gains are to be had with properly designed headers like you stated as well.
I wanted to make some custom long tubes for my car but dont have the cash for the tuning equipment I would need to make optimum power.
Maybe try using a header calculator program and figure out the proper primaries, what steps to make and collector length. Big gains are to be had with properly designed headers like you stated as well.
I wanted to make some custom long tubes for my car but dont have the cash for the tuning equipment I would need to make optimum power.
02-22-2011, 06:38 PM
#50
I would love to have some custom step headers made one day... but it would cost serious money. Although if I bought all the mandrel bent tubing, it would be possible that I could fab them up. Still another project I've been considering, but would be a pretty serious undertaking.
02-22-2011, 08:06 PM
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I really can't give a specific value yet because I'll need to gauge how much I can reduce the huge amount of hours I had in the "prototype". I'm also considering trying my hand at making a full UIM which will allow me to change runner length and use real venturis because although material cost will rise, it will actually be easier to build.
02-22-2011, 08:09 PM
#53
I really can't give a specific value yet because I'll need to gauge how much I can reduce the huge amount of hours I had in the "prototype". I'm also considering trying my hand at making a full UIM which will allow me to change runner length and use real venturis because although material cost will rise, it will actually be easier to build.
02-22-2011, 08:13 PM
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If only Kinetix hadn't half-*** built their IM with runners that are too long and don't port match at all to the LIM and SFR's wasn't so prohibitively expensive (and untested) I wouldn't need to do this...
02-23-2011, 07:07 AM
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02-23-2011, 07:41 AM
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That's the dyno shown on their website? Do you have runfiles? No RPM on that sheet at all. Did you tune for each? The top end gains look less severe than mine, but it gains at low end where mine doesn't... Giving me the impression that it's a midrange monster moreso than topend.
02-23-2011, 07:55 AM
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I really can't give a specific value yet because I'll need to gauge how much I can reduce the huge amount of hours I had in the "prototype". I'm also considering trying my hand at making a full UIM which will allow me to change runner length and use real venturis because although material cost will rise, it will actually be easier to build.
lol
02-23-2011, 09:11 AM
#62
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No runfiles. I have a technosquare reflash (I feel it needed some retuning after the block plate and cat removal). There was no change at all besides the manifolds themselves. 30whp at redline is pretty good considering no tuning. I think with some tuning there would be a lot better gians. I don't think it'll be anywhere as close to your though. Maybe a total of 35whp (sfr + tune) at redline, 40 with some luck but I doubt it. Seems to good to be true.
02-23-2011, 09:21 AM
#63
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No runfiles. I have a technosquare reflash (I feel it needed some retuning after the block plate and cat removal). There was no change at all besides the manifolds themselves. 30whp at redline is pretty good considering no tuning. I think with some tuning there would be a lot better gians. I don't think it'll be anywhere as close to your though. Maybe a total of 35whp (sfr + tune) at redline, 40 with some luck but I doubt it. Seems to good to be true.
From my experience, as long as you have a solid tune for the current MAF, making changes that result in more/less airflow do not affect the tune. This is because as more air is pulled in, the MAF detects more air and gives more fuel to compensate and vice versa. When I initially installed the new intake manifold with my stock MAF, I left it on the tune I had been using and the AF was still perfect. I'd be willing to bet that as long as you didn't change your intake pipe or MAF itself, the AF was still nearly the same when using the new manifold.
That said, my tune on the 3.5" maf used in this dyno leaves MUCH to be desired. So even with a very solid tune on the stock intake/MAF, I still picked up the gains shown here with a halfassed tune on the new MAF setup. That just further strengthens my thought that the SFR setup is very well tuned for midrange power and more like a SSIM up top.
Still, I'll make sure to blow the SFR manifold out of the water on price point, and at least try to pretty up my design a little more.
The true test of my intake manifold will come after the cams/valvesprings/oilpump/rod bolts and we see how it performs above 7200 RPMs.
Last edited by sparks03max; 02-23-2011 at 09:32 AM.
02-23-2011, 09:30 AM
#64
I really can't give a specific value yet because I'll need to gauge how much I can reduce the huge amount of hours I had in the "prototype". I'm also considering trying my hand at making a full UIM which will allow me to change runner length and use real venturis because although material cost will rise, it will actually be easier to build.
02-23-2011, 09:33 AM
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I agree... It will also be very easy for me to change runner length based on customer desires for "custom" orders. Basically tuned intake manifolds for certain RPM ranges.
02-23-2011, 09:39 AM
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Good info. Never knew that about the a/f.
I'm sure you can beat the sfr price easily. Even at group buy price its 900 or 950 iirc. Luckily I paid even less then that
Good info. Never knew that about the a/f.
I'm sure you can beat the sfr price easily. Even at group buy price its 900 or 950 iirc. Luckily I paid even less then that
I'm sure you can beat the sfr price easily. Even at group buy price its 900 or 950 iirc. Luckily I paid even less then that
Good info. Never knew that about the a/f.
I'm sure you can beat the sfr price easily. Even at group buy price its 900 or 950 iirc. Luckily I paid even less then that
Last edited by NmexMAX; 02-23-2011 at 10:14 AM.
02-23-2011, 12:05 PM
#69
I would love to have some custom step headers made one day... but it would cost serious money. Although if I bought all the mandrel bent tubing, it would be possible that I could fab them up. Still another project I've been considering, but would be a pretty serious undertaking.
Plus you would be the ultimate badass if you had a custom intake mani and stepped long tubes that YOU made.
I agree as well.
Function over form.
02-23-2011, 03:35 PM
#70
Have you seen this thread http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...-manifold.html ?
Any thoughts on his short runner large plenum design?
Any thoughts on his short runner large plenum design?
02-23-2011, 03:37 PM
#71
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Have you seen this thread http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...-manifold.html ?
Any thoughts on his short runner large plenum design?
Any thoughts on his short runner large plenum design?
Last edited by sparks03max; 02-23-2011 at 03:41 PM.
02-27-2011, 05:52 PM
#73
hopefully somebody will take on the challenge of making longer runners for out headers.... oh sparks im sure this is something you would know but what are the tube size for the headers runner??? im looking to get some new headers but if i can probebly pay the price for a custom equal length header system thats at the cost of cattman if not a tad more it may be something ill have the ride take another vacation for a couple weeks... now for the custom route i want to go if i do choose to do it is
each collector being 1/8-1/4" bigger, longer runners into an equal length 2.75 or 3" Y... i thought i made that my lil project this summer... i should be hitting the dyno up on the 12th of march if i get the ride back in good running condition so i should have some numbers to base the experiment from... if it goes good ill talk to the owner
each collector being 1/8-1/4" bigger, longer runners into an equal length 2.75 or 3" Y... i thought i made that my lil project this summer... i should be hitting the dyno up on the 12th of march if i get the ride back in good running condition so i should have some numbers to base the experiment from... if it goes good ill talk to the owner
02-27-2011, 06:10 PM
#74
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hopefully somebody will take on the challenge of making longer runners for out headers.... oh sparks im sure this is something you would know but what are the tube size for the headers runner??? im looking to get some new headers but if i can probebly pay the price for a custom equal length header system thats at the cost of cattman if not a tad more it may be something ill have the ride take another vacation for a couple weeks... now for the custom route i want to go if i do choose to do it is
each collector being 1/8-1/4" bigger, longer runners into an equal length 2.75 or 3" Y... i thought i made that my lil project this summer... i should be hitting the dyno up on the 12th of march if i get the ride back in good running condition so i should have some numbers to base the experiment from... if it goes good ill talk to the owner
each collector being 1/8-1/4" bigger, longer runners into an equal length 2.75 or 3" Y... i thought i made that my lil project this summer... i should be hitting the dyno up on the 12th of march if i get the ride back in good running condition so i should have some numbers to base the experiment from... if it goes good ill talk to the owner
03-01-2011, 02:14 PM
#78
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Stormz I think you missed what he meant. You need to have a $2000+ dollar standalone to make ITBs work, just UTEC + stock ECU won't cut it. Even if you fab them up yourself, the cost and difficulty of fabrication is far higher than just building a UIM.
03-01-2011, 02:18 PM
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Well then. You asked "why not?" I answer $3000+(probably north of 3500 all said and done), far more man hours (5-10x at least) and difficulty vs well under $500 and 50-60 hours hard work... you tell me why not. You want to get baller with it that's your choice, but this is a budget build.
Just the cost of ITBs and standalone cost would outweigh every other mod on this car combined.
Just the cost of ITBs and standalone cost would outweigh every other mod on this car combined.
Last edited by sparks03max; 03-01-2011 at 02:22 PM.