mingo

iTrader: (4)

well.. i've posted before about the sound deadening material (rammat) peeling off the roof of my car.. has anyone else had this problem? i put 4 layers on the roof. iv'e also noticed that in some areas the thing basically melted and turned into a goo. i know for sure it must have melted because i can see the runs. has anyone else experience this problem with the same product??? the thing also smells during hot days. i'm moving to southern california where the weather is alot more harsh then here in nor cal, so i was thinking of removing most of the sound deadening material off the roof because it gets in the way of my sun roof. what should i do???

-daniel

jmax

You should try to remember which products work when adhered upside down. And the one's that do not so you don't let it happen a third time.

SWEETSOUND2001

iTrader: (30)

Mingo, here you go:


http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...=196444&page=4

mingo

iTrader: (4)

hahaha... well the original rammat never competely fell off, i just rolled what ever was coming off back on and cut off the stuff that i felt was not safe to ahve on there. but it peeled on me again..

mingo

iTrader: (4)

thanks for the link man... so does that acumat work well??? i'm not sure if the guy thinks wit works well or not.. another problem is, wouldn't it all peel off if he applied it ontop of the existing material? i can't have another layer of anything up there, theres abosolutely no more room or else my sunroof won't clear the sound deadening material.. well i guess i should get off my butt and remove that stuff now.. thanks for the helpful replies..

SWEETSOUND2001

iTrader: (30)

Here are my thoughts why the material came loose and eventually got stuck to the sunroof.

1. Adhesive is made of tar like material. Under extreme heat the tar will get soft and leaks out from the edges very slowly. Keep in mind that the temperature between the headliner and roof is much higher since the heat has nowhere to go. My guess is it gets 150+ degrees in there. Here is a picture. Notice how you can see tar leaking out around the edges. That is the problem right there



2. After continiously leaking out, eventually there is not enough tar (adhesive) to keep the foil part attached. It becomes loose and comes off (see the picture above). This is exactly what happened to me and my sunroof. When I removed my headliner for the second time, I notice that there were drops of tar everywhere.


3. I used Scosche Accumat to cover the other material so the tar has nowhere to leak out and thus stay in place. So far it has worked just fine (2 months). Will it work 2-3 years from now? I guess I'll find out.

The issue is primarily during summer when it gets to be 100+ degrees. I now leave my sunroof tilted open so the heat between headliner and the roof has somewhere to escape at least. There is really nothing to worry about unless you leave your car parked outside for extended periods of time like I do.

Whew, I think I typed enough

mingo

iTrader: (4)

wow thanks for the thorough reply. well.. i'm sure ihad plenty of material left in there, but yeah i can see what you're saying about alot of the material slowly leaking.. i've just removed the rammat from my roof. i've got some pictures of it, i'll upload it when i develope my film... i don't want to risk having stuff peel again.. so cal is gonna be real hot and i don't think i'll have the space to work on my car because i'll be in an apartment.

jmax

Dang Anton. I didn't realize the aluminum actually seperated from the adhesive the first time I saw those pics. I'm still too paranoid to attach anything to my super black roof. But summer will be over soon so I gotta start doing something.

mingo

iTrader: (4)

i have a gray luster car and it gets hella hot.. it melted off real fast in layers.. i woudln't recomend doing it.. my pix look alot worse than the picture posted earlier. i'll pist it when ever i have the film developed adn scanned.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

So would it be recommended not to put Rammat on the roof? And use other material?

Dixit

Stereodude

If your roof doesn't "resonate" in an audible fashion then you're wasting your time and money putting Dynomat, Raamatt, or Peel and Seal up there. If you're trying to cut down the noise level in your car get some acoustic isolation foam. http://www.b-quiet.com has two different kinds. You can also go with the cheapo standby of carpet pad.

Stereodude

jmax

But if you have a sub, it will resonate. Sweetsound seems to have had success with the scosche accumat. One or two layers should be enough. As the majority of roof noise is wind. So the foam materials work pretty good.

Stereodude

That's not exactly the type of resonance that Dynomat can stop. Dynomat and the clones can lower the fundamental frequency of resonance by adding mass, but mainly what they do is stop the harmonics. I'm still not certain that I think the roof really resonates in an audible fashion. I've cranked my sub in my car and I hear other things resonating, but I can't say I've heard any coloration of the sound from the roof.

Stereodude

jmax

If you can see the roof flexing, that's enough resonance to warrant some dampening and structural reinforcement. Feel free to not try. The rest of us prefer the effort we put into it.

mingo

iTrader: (4)

well the roof is to me one of the top priorities for sound deadening but because of my unfortunate experience i'm not going to do it again. adding sound deadening helps reduce in cabin noise from wind, rain and traffic.

i have also been observing alot of melting in my trunk from the rammat.. imo, the stuff should be used on the floor only.. i've used 6 layers on the floor with two layers of super dense carpet padding.. i'll look into a different alternative to for the doors. i've only finished doing 1/2 of my rear right door with 6 or 7 layers of rammat, if it starts peeling that stuff will be coming off too.. i dont' trust the stuff because of my own experience.. i guess ppl get what they pay for. i've also filled the rocker panels with over 6 cans of expansion foam.. i advice whom ever is going to do the foam treatment to do it in layers so the foam can cure (assuming you get air cured expansion foam) and please use minimal expansion foam mainly because it's more dense.

daniel

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

What I dont get is what you mean by 4-7 layers of it. Are you physically applying a layer over each other? Doesnt that end up being over 1/2" thick? How does that clear things when you put back the door or the panels?

Or am I not understanding this correctly.

Dixit

Mike H.

What I was planning on doing was covering the car with a layers of raammat and carpet padding, and then finally spraying everything down with the dampening stuff from the spray can, cascade or something. Would that hold it in place?

mingo

iTrader: (4)

no you heard right.. i did the outer skin of the doors... only half of it. .i wasn't done. and i'm not gonna continue with it.. i was also thinking of doing 6-7 layers on the part that the door panels go on and leave a thin lip where the door panels actually touch the door panel could still fit nd do a few layers on the door panels, but i knew that four rolls wouldn't cover it, i was just about to order more rammat too untill all this happened. it's not a product i'de recomend for sound deadening.. no offense to true believers of rammat but i really dont' think it's cut out to be what ppl are saying it is. i've worked with other stuff and seen other stuff and it seems to hold up alot better.

jmax

For those of you concerned Rick is aware of this recent ramm mat development and is working on a solution. If you check the elitecaraudio.com general forum, there is a post about dripping ramm mat. This apparently only happened with a recent batch of ramm mat. They are reformulating the adhesive so that it will have a higher melting point. Apparently there was a bad batch of adhesive. And he indicated that replacement material will soon be available, and it sounds as though customers who got the bad batch will receive replacements. But I wouldn't be a jerk about it if you want to be made happy. He seems very dedicated to 100% satisfaction. Really similar to the attitude of Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio.

Whoever posted that they want to spray material over the ramm mat, I would not recommend it. The aluminum surface will be difficult to adhere anything. If I were to do anything I would attach some foam or felt material to minimize reflections off the surface. Mingo, 3-6 layers on the inside of the exterior door panel whould be okay. But the side of the door that the vinyl cover rests on will be overkill. One or two on the back side of that panel and similar number of layers on outside should work. You can also attach to the back side of the vinyl covered panel. The absorptive carpet padding material like sweetsound used is also a good idea.

mingo

iTrader: (4)

overkill??/ definately i do that stuff alot.. i just dont' want to slap on X amount of layers and think "hrmmm shulda added another layer" and hten go back tear everythign apart just to add one layer. so instead i just added all the layers the first time. another reason why i've shoved so many layers on is because i was worried that i might want to add another woofer in the door.. the focal utopia really do pack a punch. i haven't been following the elitecaraudio.com forums lately because i've been busy with other stuff. infact i haven't been by there for a veyr long time.. my empty pockets kind of made me lose interest momentarily in car audio amoung many other things.

jmax

What I mean is that in order to get an improvement beyond the first few layers, you ahve to double what you already have. So a marginal improvement beyond the third layer would start arond 6-7 layers. I've got 2-3 layers of Cascades 2DHD on my outer door skin along with two cans of the spray material. And similar treatment of the inner door panels. The ony way the door could be made more would be to use a structural material, such as fiberglass. You also have to remember that the ramm mat 60 is 60 mils think, so 8 layers would be just under 1/2 an inch. But it is heavy stuff, and a new hinge mechanism may need to be designed. So if you want to go to nearly a half inch thickness, after doing this myself I can say that there are better choices of materials. In both the noise dampening category and mass / rigidity ratio.