I've got Focal 180W's and am thinking about building some kick panels for them. Does anyone know what the ideal size is? SWEETSOUNDS2001, your kick panels look good but they seem a little big. Are those kick panels a universal fit? The Focals are 7" components and I'm planning on going 3-way and putting 5 1/4's in the factory door panels. Anyway, should I just have my local audio specialist do it? I think they'll charge something like $200 or more for a custom install. Thanks

 

to keep the woofer in the door, and build a kick panel for the 5 1\4. Maxs can be harder to do, since there isn't much room of the sides to work with. ( That is what an engineer from Q-Logic told me and I also found out for myself.) That way you won't need a big sealed enclosure for the speaker to be placed in. It will also help you save some $$$. Since your going with the 3 way, most vocals will be coming from the 5 1\4" and that will have to be angled for better imaging.

 

Thanks Whitemax. That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate your help.

 

I agree with Whitemax. Put the 7" driver in the door and the 5 1/4 in the kickpanel with the tweeter. There is plenty of room for either in the kick panel but the 5 1/4 is more critical for the imaging. Depending on your shoe size you could put all three drivers in the kick. $200 sounds like a Q-logic pre-form price. Something of higher quality normally starts at $300-350 and goes up depending on the complexity and how accurate you want the sound.
I also agree that there is not much room on the sides, but that just means that you or your installer need to be more creative.

 

6.5's in the kick panels and 7" in the doors? Will that improve imaging? I have a set of Diamond audio components (3-way upgrade) and I'm not sure where I want to put them...or ditch them at get 5 1/4's. What about putting them (6.5s) in the rear doors? Anyway, thanks for your help guys.

 

Your biggest kiler will be space. Since the doors make good enclosures for woofers, they work fine together, as long as there is good sound proofing on them. Dynaudio has a nice 3 1\2" dome midrange(looks like a big tweeter), and has a sealed back, so it doesn't need an enclosure). It and a tweeter can be mounted in a panel, that can be much shallower than if a woofer was in it. with a midrange and tweeter, you could have a small wedgedshaped panel squeezed into that back corner, and have no probs. The driver that makes the biggest impact on imaging is the midrange. The tweeter helps open up the soundstage, and the woofer just puts out bass, which is omni-directional.

 

i was gonna actually put 180w utopia's in my car but they wouldnt fit in then already built kicks. Focals are very deep speakers. If you want a really nice setup, i recommend 165w3 utopia. put the midbass in the door, mid/tweet in the kick, give them 200 watts piece and youll love it. Utopia are my favorite speakers. I havent heard dynaudio but people say theyre nice.

 

Hmmm, I already have the 180W's so which midrange should I get (complete the 3-way setup)? Focal sells a 5 3/8 utopia midrange (5WS), would that be a good choice for the kicks? Any opinions on putting 6.5 components in the rear doors? Would that be too much rear fill? I would like a full range of sound no matter where you sit, that's why I also got Focal 165HC's (coaxials) in the rear deck. Am I going to need 2 (4 channel) amps to power all these? Thanks again for all the help

 

It depends on how they are powered. I personally don't run my rear fill off an amp, just the HU. Since they would be in the rear doors, sitting low, I wouldn't think they would be overfill, but there is the chance. I'd say try it and see. I wouldn't power them off an amp, until you've had time to test the system. You may even find you don't need them in the rear deck.
Do you want to keep it 100% Focal? If not I would consider the Dynaudio Midrange. If so, then You'd have no problems with theFocal midrange. Both Dyna's and Utopias are pretty much even in sound and quality.

 

since it sounds like you will be running your focals through factory passive crossovers, the best setup would be the kicks. after that, the next would be midbasses in doors and tweeters in kickpanel location. That will help imaging a bit but not a lot as your mids are still in the doors, off-axis. if you cant get a three way, or add a midrange, i dont know what to say except kicks. However, if you add a midrange to your focal setup it will get very $$$. As you will have to either buy all active crossovers, or have custom crossovers built for you by a shop. Im using the first option in my car as my head unit already has an active crossover built-in. This eliminated the need for factory passive crossovers. last time i heard, it would cost you $300-400 to have custom 3 way crossover built for your focals. But if you do that, it will sound incredible. You would have to get either utopia or audiom series mids as it has to be tone matching. Good luck..email me if necessary.

 

The Focal 180W's came with cross-overs but I'm sure the Focal 5WS won't. Well, seems like I will be going that route since SQ is my prime concern. Any suggestions for a good set of crossovers? Or, maybe I'll pick up some Dynaudio midrange's for the kicks...what's a good model, diameter..?

 

Especially if you do it yourself. I've made quite a few for home speakers I've built, and the price is mainly determined on what quality parts you use. I prefer Solen or Hovland capacitors, and Solen and Goertz coils. Only difficult thing Goertz is they are wound copper foil, and so larger, and they are about 3 times the cost of other brands and well worth it. http://www.madisound.com is a great company, and actually have a x-over design service, that isn't too bad. My suggestions for building a custom x-over for your 3-way setup is what was recommended for me once I go 3 way with my Dynas. power the midrange and tweets off one amp with a custom x-over, and the midbass off another amp with an x-over. Try not to run them off one 2 channel amp all together if you can, as this will greatly affect the SQ.Total x-over costs, if yo ubuild them yourself shouldn't be but around $150. There is a ton of software out there to help you make your own. I've downloaded quite a few for free.
As far a the dyna midrange follow this site:
http://www.theautophile.com/html/index.html
It has all the info on it. another choice could be this:
http://www.theautophile.com/html/index.html
I have heard good things about this little speaker and you don't need a seperate tweeter to go with it. Talk to Peter Lufrano (the owner of theautophile) and tell him what your looking for in a system.

[Edited by Whitemax on 02-10-2001 at 09:42 AM]

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I'm going to contact Peter at Audiophile first about my setup, see what he recommends. If building a custom 3-way is too much trouble then I'm going to get Focal 136K's (5 3/8 components with x-overs)...anyway, thanks for all the input!

 

99dustMagnet: Where are you located at? If you want I can recommend you a dealer out in California that specializes in Focal and Dynaudio. As a matter of fact, I believe they are Dynaudio's 2nd biggest carrier. let me know

 

one other site you might check out as to crossovers
and calculations for them is;

http://www.selectproducts.com/frameindex.htm

I came across this in Rec.car audio and the site seems to carry to components and tools for a serious installer

One general Kick-panel question for all involved, as I've fabricated several door panels using NAME techinques,
and this will be my 1st attempt at kick panels, My question is; Is the positioning of the mid and tweet an arbitrary, calculated or trail and error?

As each different speaker used would require different conciderations ( mounting depth, structural interferences)

I'm considering mounting the mid & tweet to 1/4" pressboard and playing with the location......is that best done from the drivers seat or getting over the center console?

I'll sit back and listen

Dave

 

Southern California, Orange County region. Shoot me an email. Thanks

 

DOn't forget about the active X-over option. Infinite x-over points. If you are using the Focals I recommend using all focal and sticking to a particular series so as to match the timbre of the other drivers. A 4 1/2 or 5 1/4 should be good between the 7 and the tweet and should be easy to fit in a kickpanel. As I said before, if you or your installer are creative all three drivers will fit in a kickpanel. I currently have a pair of DA HEX 5 1/4's in each kick and a single tweet. A pair of DA HEX 6 1/2's in each door. All active X-overs, using an RF symmetry and the X-overs built into my amps.

 

hey, jmax how does your setup sound? im running s600s actively crossed over with p1r. its in the link on my page

 

Like the tweeter mount. Did you find the the backstrap needed to be damped to resist vibrating? Or was the thin steal stiff enough on it's own? My system sounds sweet, very accurate, great transients. But I feel the midbase is lacking. I am the only person to ever be in the car and say this so I guess I am picky. I have had to raise the X-over frequency of the midbase to 90 Hz high pass because of an annoying vibration from the S600 drivers. I don't think the current DA's are as high quality as the previous DA's built by Eton. Definitely can't play as low. I am powering both sets of mids off a PG ZX475Ti with about 125 Watts to each pair of mids. I had to swap out a 4300 because I didn't want the hassle of another processor to act as a crossover. The S500's are highpassed at ~300Hz and the tweets at about 3900Hz. I am also using the silk tweets. So far I think they are the only driver in the set which has as high quality as the drivers they sold a few years back - and I think they are the same drivers. If not they are an exact look-alike.

 

thats cool. the reason your midbass is lacking probably because the door isnt completely sealed or something to that effect. the speakers need to be mounted on a mdf baffle, or better yet an enclosure inside the door. mine are crossed over at 63hz in sealed kick panels.

 

The doors have custom glass/carbon pods for the 6 1/2's. 2 cans quiet kote and two layers cascade audio high performance vinyl sheets inside and some more on the skin closest to the vinyl. Also a length of foam, egg-crate style mattress pad in each door. The window just rubs the tips of the foam pad. Opens and shuts like a Cadi's door - with a strong thrust. I haven't completely sealed it because of the poor low end response from the 6 1/2's. I decided to replace them with Dynaudio MW170's. Then I will be able to use a better amp, either the MTX 2300 or Brax X2000. After I get the new drivers and construct the new pods, then I will completely seal the door. Right now that would just mean more epoxy, kevlar and carbon to cut off the door in a few months.

 

Jmax, any pics? I'm still pondering how to build sealed enclosures for my dyna's. Looks like I'll be replacing the map pockets with sealed contured boxes...

 

Replacing the map pocket with a sealed enclosure has been on my list of things to ponder for quite a while. But I haven't done it . . . yet. I never said my carbon/epoxy pods were sealed enclosures. Just sealed to the doors. Although they could be sealed from behind with some 1/8" vinyl foam core material and a single layer of either glass or almost any other composite material and a resin. Just slide the vinyl foam behind the drivers but in front of the window slides, cut it to fit, then add epoxy and glass. Put it back in and seal all the back side holes. Better yet, vent it to the bottom of the door and back. Now that you have it aimed down and back bring it back up and forward to the map pockets. Seal the pockets. Really you can curve all over the place until you have enough volume for your enclosure. But I am simply going to seal the front side of the door and have the 2 MW170's fireing into the door. It will be an aperiodic enclosure with alternating volume - sometimes the window will be down and it will always be venting out through the window weatherstipping.

 

Peter is the MAN! Take notice of what he suggests for your setup, he is very knowledgeable in regards to high end car audio....