WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

Ok i did some research and have come up with the following list. If theres anything im missing, then let me know, even if its discontinued ill hunt it down as long as its worth it. Well heres my list, let me know which one i should get. I know Don likes the Arc.

McIntosh 440
Diamond Audio D7104
JL 450/4
Phoenix Gold Xenon 200.4
Phoenix Gold Xenon 100.4
Phoenix Gold 500.4 TI
Zapco C2k 4.0X
Brax X2400.2
Helix A4
Xtant X604
Arc Audio 4150XXL

If im missing on other good one on par with these let me know. If anyone has any of these in their car, let me know how the party is at all volumes.

Edit: Forgot to add the Arc

Maxima Dan

How bout Sinfoni 120x4 or maybe Genesis...I don't think I would put JL and PG in this list.

Nismo

iTrader: (18)

Eclipse, Arc.

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

sinfoni and genesis, gotta do some research on these, ive never heard of them before. Thanks for the info, any more suggestions

MannyNJ2k2max

iTrader: (3)

You cannot go wrong with any on that list- I'd still pick the Arc 4150 over any of them-I dont think the JL or the PG's belong on that list even though they are very good amps as well

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

I agree with PG and JL not being in the list. I have had a few problems with the DA D7s, but still great amps.

For reference the Arcs, Zapcos, and DA D3 are all Rob Zeff designs, with the most being put into the Arcs. Dampning factors of the 4150 and 2500 set them higher than the C2Ks...

--Don

MannyNJ2k2max

iTrader: (3)

Certified Beast....here are some old reviews I pulled up-
keep in mind -its current specs are (85 rms X4, 330x 2)
http://arcreviews.freeservers.com/4150r.htm

BBOYSTEVIE

Ahh I see nobody's recommended the new king of the block.....


Step up to TRU Technologies best of the best
It's blown away Arc, zapco, and many other high ends in listening tests......

http://www.trutechnology.com/ their homepage



http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...threadid=83754 little about their service (John Yi the owner is on elite all the time


http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...threadid=75207 Read this and weep....Tru vs. Sinfoni vs. Brax in a "as scientific as you can get" analysis

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...threadid=61721 Tru history

http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/0311cae_trutech/ thats they're copper series


Anyway, they have a few lines of amps....the copper is totally totally totally overkill....They have the copper series Tube amps, then the T-o3 series which is just totally overkill, then the t series, which is still going to rank up there (or above) a Zap c2k, then of course the Hammer series for subs.... thise are the beast of beast Sound quality amps.

None of these amps are really worth it (just like a Zapco or Brax or other high end) unless you have a nice install and all your other ducks in a row...but if you really want the best and have the dough, there you go. They are all grossly underrated.


for "not too bad pricing, go to elitecaraudio.com, e-mail dingaling on there, and see what he can do for you.

BBOYSTEVIE

PS...make room too, these amps are BIG....

Maxima Dan

Not sure how I forgot about TRU...copper series is awesome.

C3nthusiast

iTrader: (3)

You didn't add Precision Power. Not the Korean made amps but the US made amps of the 90's.

This is a pic of an A600 (best sub amp ever made) . The A404 or Ax400 would be excellant 4ch choices.



They don't make them like this anymore.

MannyNJ2k2max

iTrader: (3)

Tru's and other tube amps(us amps...etc..) are exellent amps ,yet produce alot of coloration and are yield decent levels of distortion- they aren't for everyones taste, or budget for that matter-I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who hasn't heard a tube amp, it is a different sound- but yes they are an option for those seeking an amplifier that use world class componentry and highest grade
materials

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

what is a "tube" amp and what is the flaship amp from Tru?

C3nthusiast

iTrader: (3)

Tube amps are great too. The best sounding car I've ever heard used Milbert Tube amps, KEF satellites, JL subs, and a PPI amp pushing the sub.

Milbert has been around a long time. I remember their 2 X 15w amp was like $1000 back in the day. They're still around. There about 30 minutes from me in MD.

www.Milbert.com

BBOYSTEVIE

Flagship would be the copper series (and the Hammer H1 for subs). Believe me, the T-03 series is gonna kick the crap out of anything else out there. the tube amps are part of the copper series (theres copper series non tube and tube. I'd go T-o3 myself but if you're looking to drop the most money, what the hey...go copper.

Gosh there amps are georgeous and HUGE. The T-03 4150 is a freaking BEAST.

You'll see plenty of TRU at IASCA finals this year. A lot of competitors have made the switch. When Matt at Image Dynamics is impressed by an amp, you know its a beast.

the tube amps I have listened to have been home audio amps and have sounded "smoother and more laid back" than other amps. It's worth noting that these tube amps as far as I know (if you're going to get one or really want to know more, contact John Yi at Tru personally....If you're really interested in buying one of they're amps, he'll spend an hour talking to you on the phone personally) are not a pure tube amp...tubes are in the output circuits not on the imputs (I'm just about getting over my head, but this is the way I understand it). Most if not all car audio tube amps are this way I believe (Tube driver, US amps tubes). From what I hear of the TRU tube amps, they are not lacking in power.

Ah...I forgot that they make pure class A amps too. for that though, you need a heck of a power supply for not much power (though I hear you don't need much power if you're running class A). Those things have to be rediculously priced thought.

Moral of the story (in my opinion is) that TRU has a few lines that are going to kick the crap out of other high end car audio amps...If youre serious about it, take the time to contact Jon at Tru and he can help you with an amp that fits your needs (or e-mail dingaling from elitecaraudio.com he knows his stuff too and has the best prices on TRU direct.

Have I mentioned that that T-03 4.150 is a huge sexy beast of an amp? druel get one...you WONT be dissapointed.

Do you have an upgraded alternator/battery?

PS...if anyone wants an incredible deal on a high power, audiophile, sexy beast of a 2 channel amp, theres a T03 2.250 (conservatively rated at 250 x 2 at 4 ohms) going on elitecaraudio.com now for $700 shipped. I know to most of you that is a rediculous price to pay for an amp, but for that amp its a steal. Here's the linky:

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...threadid=98371

Man would that look nice next to a To3 4.150!

uh uh jizz those amps are drop dead sexy!

Maxima Dan

All car audio tube amps are hybrids. Meaning that the final gain stage is solid state...it's the only way to get that kind of power out of tubes, that and there is no way to squeeze four huge output transformers in a chassis that small.

I would probably go with the standard C7 copper series four channel, I really wouldn't want to deal with the tubes.

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

Just so this is clear, im not planning to run any competition but want crystal clear sound you can feel. This amp will most like power some Focal 165W3 or some flagship rainbows or Brax components. I really dont care about the physical characteristics (neon, aluminum, blah blah). I just need a colorful assortment of sound. This will most likely be ran by an Alpine CDA 7990 F1 and a Alpine F900 processor.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Flagship Rainbows? I want Your job....Even with my dealer accomidation programs, the References are Way too much for me.

--Don

Lytheum

TRU!!! I have a t-2.100 pushing my cdt hd-62's and they sound amazing. i would not trade this amp for anything right now.

you want a 4 channel so check out the t-4.65 or 4.100

SEmy2K2go

iTrader: (10)

I have the 4 Channel Eclipse EA-3422 Amp which is more than sufficient for everyday use. Quite happy with its performance and at under $300, it was a good deal as well.

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

Don, their website only lists refrences as 6X9? How much are they anyway? I dont think they cost more the Brax Graphic Pro, I just hope they can hang with the amp.

Lytheum, I need something top of the line, I work with music and i really love high end stuff.

SEmy2k2go, The reason im willing to spend so much money is because I only want to spend it once. I want to buy something that will amaze my ears and I wont have to deal with it. I want to keep this equipment for about 5 years, i dont care about it going out of style as long as this stuff lasts and wont break down on me.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

References are listed at $7500, handmade to order, lifetime warranty
Next would would be the Platinums at $2500
Then the ProVandiums w/kickbass (I have) at $1200
and so forth....

I definately agree with buying things once. Unfortunately with my reps always convincing me to throw something in my car for more advertising Ive changed alot. I currently run the Arc 2500XXK and 4150XXK with another 2500 and a 4050 sitting in my garage waiting for install. Ive had these am[ps in my car sin ce December with absolutely no plans for changing. This is actually the longest Ive kept the same setup as well. Reps arent happy, but....O well

--Don

Maxima Dan

I think with the equipment mentioned so far, you can't go wrong and it will come down to the install. Are you looking for 2 or 3 way components. 2 way look into the Seas Lotus line, for three way check out the DLS Iridiums.

The install I'm working on right now is using a Brax X2400...I still haven't decided on the components I want to run, though.

BBOYSTEVIE

From what I hear, the Brax components are a modified scan-speak revelator (as is the Alpine F-1 flagship set), but more suited for IB. They must be nice. I think www.theautophile.com is the place to look for/inquire about these.

If you're talking about the Rainbow references, I believe list is about $6k for the set. Their platinums are about $2k I think. I can get you an e-mail of somebody who used to run the references if you want to chat with him.

What home drivers do you like. Maybe someone on here can try to match a speaker to your listening tastes.

Like I said, Seas Lotus References (uses a 4 ohm version of the Excel and the crossover has the needed notch filter....dingaling on ECA may still be able to hook you up with these as well) and DLS Iridium 3 ways should be considered as well. I'm running a set of DLS UR36s 3 wyas and love them. The mid dome is very transparent and allows for an easy kickpanel install for relatively easy imaging. Supposedly, the mid dome of the Iridium set is similar but a little more defined. Must be wonderful.

hmmm...maybe Image Dynamics Cd-2 Pro horns (you'd need a small amp for these efficient mothers, then something else for midrange/midbass). These horns sound exceptional and image easily.

Personally (and it is all subjective and personal but in this cas it's not even close to me) any of the speakers I listed are so far above and beyond Focal Utopia 3 ways....

Just some options. I'll prolly upgrade to the Iridium 3 ways in the next year.

Whose going to be installing?

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

Don- why are the refrences and platinums listed as 6X9? Yea $7k is too much but 2k i can work with but i want 3 ways. BTW if you need someone to advertise those ARC amps, ill volunteer my car lol, plus ill get to see how i like them before I buy.

BBoyStevie- above utopias? hmm

MAxima Dan- Ill look into those brands, i think i heard of seas before but couldnt find the website. Let me know how that brax works out.

LiquidhMax

Is PG Bad or something? or are these like Seriously upper echelon amps and PG is just premium or something

nostrixoxide

Certified Beast,

If you end up going with the Fenton components maybe you should look into Fenton amplifers also. I'm sure they design each of there products in conjunction with one another. Meaning there amp's & speakers probably work extremely well with eachother and probably had a hand in either products development. Just thought I would mention that. I know there are alot better products out there then Fenton, but it seems like a logical thought?

liquidhMax,
To answer your question yes PG, Alpine, JL Audio are all considered premium but not really upper echelon. The upper range equiptment is built with "more love" as I like to call it. Usually the top end stuff is built with pretty much the best components. This means cleaner power, clearer sound, more refined adjustments & so on. This type of equiptment even though it's really really expensive is very desirable to audio enthusiasts. Comparing PG or Alpine to McIntosh or Zapco it's really like comparing apples to oranges as far as musical quality is concerned. It's kinda like comparing college football to pro football. It's just a different class. I'm sure you have noticed how easy pro players make the game look compared to high school or college ball. It's just more refined, everything looks better in front of the camera. Another way to look at it would be (Gilligan to the Professor or the Skipper to Mister Howl) You know what i'm saying? And for the last comparison it would be like (8 track to tape & tape to cd) it's just cleaner sounding. However there is a point when a certain frequency is just a certain frequency? It's just hard for me to justify why anyone would consider spending so much money for these products. 7grand for a set of speakers is just ludacris. Think of how nice of a complete system you could have for 7grand? I just don't feel that the extra SQ is worth the additional cost. Sure if your a millionare then nothing but the best will do, but when your stereo system exceeds the value of the vehicle it's in that justs craziness!!!

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

So you are saying something like Brax X2400 and brax graphic pro components?

What about the alpine F1 status like, the have the F900 amp and some $3500 speakers. I believe they are the Z18T up front and Z15M in the back.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

They are 6.9, not 6X9 lol as in almost 7". If going with three ways then I would definately go with the ProVandiums. Ive done several sets including my own car and nothing but happy faces. I actually have a set here as well pending an install next week. Of course setup with the 2500XXK and 4150XXKs.

--Don

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

Well I was thinking more like Platinums but i guess they dont come in 3way, any chance you can fill me in on that date so i can come hear this stuff. What kind of HU are you running?

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Im running a stock navi HU, then into the Arc DXE processor. You can hear my car anytime, and the others are going in sometime this week.

Also IMO the Alpine F1 is way too much money. You would be more than fine with the Eclipse CD8454, if more is still desired then the Arc DXE...The Eclipse would run you about 1/4 of the price of the F1. I do sell both Alpine and Eclipse, so Im not really biased in that sense.

--Don

Maxima Dan

Man I'm living on the wrong coast...I'd love to hear everyones setup.

Alpine and Genesis are using modified Scan-Speak revelators, you can tell by the slit paper cones and ring radiator tweeters. I'm not sure about Brax...don't look like Scan Speak, though.

You can find info about Seas at www.madisound.com only two ways though.

LiquidhMax

Ahhh okay good. I was scared for a moment. Thanks for Clarifying for me my friend

BBOYSTEVIE

Seas is making a 4" driver now in their lotus line, so you could make your own 3 way set. With the Alpine F1 you'd have that flexibility. I agree the Alpine F1 HU/processor is overpriced...I'd prolly go for a P1 combo over it. I'm using the Eclipse 8053 HU which like the 8454 has great processing (doesn't play MP3 without commander though, which the 8454 will do). Clarion is making a HU now that will actively process a 3 way front stage, with Eq and time alignment and nice DA converter now also...can be had for about a grand...but the P9 combo can be had for just a little more than that.

Good point about the platinums not having 3 way. I'd agree w/ the pro vandiums as something worth listening to as well.

I think I got the Brax and Genisis components miixed up as far as which one was using the scans...my bad (Both I first got to know of as a maker of high end amps, then only later as speaker makers...easy for me to confuse them).

DEFINATELY above Utopias Now if you were going to go Audiom 6w's, Audiom TLR tweets, and sufficient midbass, maybe we're getting comprable.

With the head units your considering, you can run active so the seas 6-4 tweet combo or Focal audium combo would be doable...but at the end of the day, I'd still prolly end up going DLS Iridium 3 ways (ran active with the 8" woofers in the doors)...yum

I think I'm living vicariously through your budget now....P9 combo, DLS Iridium 3 ways, TRU T-03 4.150....I guess from there I'd put a TRU Hmmer h-1 on a pair of high power handling SQ subs like W7's, OZ Matrix Elites, IDMAX (though it doesn't quite have the lowend I like).....I need to quit teaching and go after money

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

what kind of subs should i use, W7s, IDMAX or Eclipse Titaniums?

BBOYSTEVIE

I've heard all three and think the W7 is the best of them. It needs more power to get ***** out loud than the IDMAX, but if you give it the power it needs in the right enclosure, it gets real loud while maintaining SQ better than any other sub I have heard personally. I don't remember how many watts the Titanium I listened to had, and it got pretty loud, but didn't sound as good in the install I was listening to as the Max or W7's I have heard (I've run 2 versions of the Max and have heard a few w7 installs. It seems you got the cash for the big amps (Tru sledgehammer biatch!!!) to push w7's well. Hopefully you're going to have an electrical system worthy of running it all.

Again, with a lot of power, the w7 simply amazed me...loud, low, and sounded great! I say all of this as a "non-JL fan" also. I think a lot of JL's products are overpriced due to name recognition, but a great sub is a great sub....Just my $.02

skeelo34

iTrader: (4)

Running tube driver blue td475 here (butleraudio.com) with Adire audio koda components (adireaudio.com) but replaced with vifa tweeters as the ones from adire weren't detailed enough.

I used to run my system on a brax x2000, but the highs were too harsh at higher volumes (although sound was extremely detailed and clean, different tweeters would solve that problem most likely). The tube driver mellows out the top end and sounds perfect, although rarely I do miss the Brax's clarity. Overall I prefer the TBD to the Brax in this setup. I'm running everything on the stock bose headunit with an rca adapter. If you're ever in queens, I could let you listen to it for yourself. At the moment I'm getting my Brax repaired, which will power 2 12's. That Brax has some serious clean power for subs. I'm very happy with these amplfiers and I'm pretty sure they will be my last.

skeelo34

iTrader: (4)

See if you can audition some adire audio Brahmas. They should give the w7 a good run for its money for less.

WHOS UR DADDY

iTrader: (8)

what about wiring, whats the best? Stinger expert? Monster M-series?

Skeelo34, ill stop by when im around there. Just curious on why you would keep the bose HU, from what ive been told is that all systems start from the HU.

skeelo34

iTrader: (4)

I don't know about wiring much, sorry. Supposedly home depot lamp cord is really high end stuff (no joke) and is used alot in home audio. You might want to search the net for that and make your own rca's, unless you want something flashy looking.

Reason I kept my bose is i think it has decent sound, and it looks stock. I don't want a single din radio and leave a hole, and i couldn't find many double din that looked nice enough and with the featers i wanted the last time i looked. Most of them looked flimsy and cheap. What I may wind up doing is the screen and small din radio in the change drawer. I don't know enough about head units to make a suggestion....

partsexpress.com also has some useful stuff. I don't know what you're looking to spend, but their dayton rca line looks inexpensive and pretty nice. pm me if you want my cell number.