jdm71488

Somewhere around 400W is where i want to be...

which is better?

a) 1 10" or 12" that pushes 400W with a mono amp
b) 2 channel amp with 2 10"s at around 200W each

and is it better to have speakers that are capable of holding more wattage than the amp can produce (only slightly behind of course) to prevent blowing?

is the lower the ohms the better or does it matter? - i could probably find that answer, but since im posting might as well ask it...

Id rather ask people who would know, over the idiots at school with the 6 12s...

GodsmackMAX

iTrader: (4)

Depends on what kinda setup you want. Boom Boom or tight SQ bass. What kind of music do you listen to?

I just sold my system (a few pics on sounddomain page) it was 2 10s in a custom ported box firing through the ski hole access going into the trunk. It was about 400-500W and it was LOUD!!!

My new setup, that I am currently working on is one 12" CDT sub in a custom sealed box firing through a hole I am going to cut in my rear deck. I figure this is the best SQ setup possible as this is as close as to have all the speakers in the cabin as possible. I will be pushing it with a 400W PPI amp.

BTW the sub takes up to 800W Max, but I think 400W will be plenty enough for me since I'm not a 'basshead'...

drew

jdm71488

i dont really want the "boom boom" but i like bass so i guess more SQ... i will probably get a enclosed box off ebay or from a local shop... but i dont know if 1 or 2 would be better?

for more "tight" bass or SQ, which company do you recommend? im looking at rockford...

GodsmackMAX

iTrader: (4)

Rockford IMO is generally used for SPL as they are kinda geared toward the 'younger' crowd that wants 'earth-shakin bass'... LOL

If you want a good SQ sub, I would go with something like an ID, JL, eD, etc. or a CDT like I'm doing. I haven't personally heard it yet as I haven't hooked it up, but everyone I have spoken to says its just as good as a JL and maybe even better. But hey, if not, I'm only out $100!

Only advice I can give you is to go and listen to what you want in a store and see if it is all you thought it was cracked up to be. Keep in mind also that the setups they have in stores will ALWAYS sound 10x better than they will ever sound in a car. They gotta got the $$ somehow

Anybody feel free to correct me on anything as I'm still an audio amature!

drew

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

whats your budget?

GodsmackMAX

iTrader: (4)

Yeah excellent ?.... After I read what I wrote, I meant to ask that...

drew

C3nthusiast

iTrader: (3)

Why 400 watts? Can you tell the difference between a 400 and a 600 watt system?

Having power is great but applying it in an efficient manner and proper sub box design is more important. Example: I've used a Rockford 2 X 50 watt amp to push 6 Sony 12" subs in a 5 cubic ft box and it plays louder than most cars with 10X the power. Most recently I visited Mobile Dynamics in AZ and one of the guys there helped me design a box w/a Sony 12" sub and a 120w amp and we hit 138db w/one sub.

In the early IASCA days many cars pushed 20+ speakers on 50w amps.

Design. Design. Design.

Robert_J

SoundSplinter RL-i Series. Sourced directly from TC Sounds using their TC2+ motor assembly. One of the best "amateur" (he doesn't make his living doing this) uses this driver in his dipole designs. Nothing but praise for it - link. I'm using a different TC Sounds driver in a sealed enclosure for my home sub. Great sounding driver.

Other drivers not mentioned but deserve to be, Adire Audio, RE and Dayton.

-Robert

jdm71488

well, i only gave 400W because of relating it to my friends system... i want a reasonably nice bass setup... wattage, i dont care how much, i just want a semi-powerful system in my trunk... compact, not no audiobahn flashy chrome subs...

my budget, well... i would like to get a good sub for around $200 which is know is not much... but if C3nthusiast said he used a 2 x 50 amp, and those are cheaper AND! he got good results out of them, then maybe you all can help me get what i need... and for speakers, id hope for around 75 - 100 for each... maybe a little more...

i know for big booms its expensive, but thats not what i want anyways... i just want to have the effects of a bass system with good quality affordable products

Kikcaffine

Get the set up i got and you will be happy, its in my sig, if it doesnt show get a polk c500.1 amp and a Diamond M6mk.II subwoofer.

jdm71488

i think thats alitte too much for me, maybe not, but does anyone have any more suggestions? id like to compare some setups...

avg

hey, might i suggest getting a jl 12w6 with a matching amp from jl. i've heard sum pushing around 500 watts and it sounds pretty good. if you like i can direct you how to go spl cuz thats what i'm set-up for.

2 Da Max

iTrader: (2)

i would like to know how to make a good spl ported box

jdm71488

ok... i really want to plan this out so for my next paycheck i can go ahead and order the stuff...

i like the idea of this whole 2x50 amp thing... can you give me the specs on your old setup? which amp model and just some basic details since this is all new to me... that would probably be cheaper than getting 2 300W speakers and a 5-600W amp...

i dont care about bragging that i have so many watts, and so many inch speakers... this is all for me!

jmal

JDM, think abou this. The larger the sub, the more deeeeeep bass it will put out...for instance, an 8" sub has the best 'kick' or 'punch'...it can move faster than a huge 15", or 12" etc...it depends on what you really want, deep rolling bass or tight, punchy bass...what kind of music do you like?

Also, 2 speakers are better/more square area than one...depending on how you set it up.

You would want your speakers to be able to handle the MAX power of your amp by about 100 watts or so, but also take into mind the RMS that you'll be putting to them. Look at it like this...(hard to explain) say you're adding oil to you car, and you're using a funnel...ok. Say the funnel has an orifice of 1/4", and you just dump the oil into the funnel...it may not drain fast enough and the oil might spill out of the top...right? So now take a funnel with like a 3/4" orifice and do the same thing...it'll drain nicely and there'll probably be no spillage....now take a funnel with a 1-1/2" orifice and dump the oil in...it may spill out of the fill-hole this time, but not the funnel... same thing when it comes to amplifying speakers....

Now OHMS....a car stereo runs off of 4 ohms...a home is 8ohms. Say you have 100 watts max, (50 RMS) going to a 200 watt (max)(100 RMS) speaker...at 4 ohms. OK? OK. Take that speaker and raise it to 8 ohms...there is 2x the resistance....the amp will be putting out the same 50 RMS (100max) but the speaker will only see 1/2 of that....25 RMS, 50 max. Drop it to 2ohms, and the speaker will see double that, (1/2 the resistance), 100 RMS and 200 max. (take some think time, its confusing) Basically, your car is made to run the stereo at 4 ohms....anything less (2ohms) is 'more power' but less sound quality.....on the other hand, 8 ohms would be less power, but 'better sound quality'. Usually, if you wanted to, you would only run your subs in 2 ohms...just to get more power out of them....making them rumble more, but the sq would be less, not to mention they would have a probability of blowing easier. The human ear can't really tell the quality of low sound (compared to highs) of really deep, low bass...therefore you could get away with dropping the ohms FOR THE SUBS ONLY....crap, you could go down to 1 ohm,...but the RIGHT way to do this would require mucho dinero!

killcrap

iTrader: (3)

you want some of these.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5726618811

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5726615729

Robert_J

Not necessarily. It all depends on the T/S parameters of the subs in question and the type of enclosure they are mounted in.

Adire Audio's white paper disproves this.

Again incorrect. The power handling of subs is greatly dependent on the enclosure they are mounted in. Adire Audio uses the Brahma for an example. In some enclosures, you will fry the voice coil before reaching the full excursion of the driver. In other enclosures, you will physicall destroy the driver before melting the voice coil. link It's best to model your sub in WinISD, UniBox of LSPcad to deterimine the power needed.

My Kenwood home theater receiver is designed to drive 6 ohm loads. The speakers I built for it are 6 ohms. There are MANY recievers that are designed for 4 ohm loads and more than enough home speakers in the 4 ohm range. My subs (Adire Shiva) are 4 ohm (dual 8 ohm VC's wired in parallel). I plan on running my theater subs as 2 ohm stereo (dual 4 ohm 15" per channel) powered by a pro amp.

This is true on some amps but not all. It all depends on the power supply and design of the amp.

Again, not always. I have a very nice "old school" PPI amp that puts out 150w/channel at 4 ohms with .01% distortion. It will put out 300w/channel at 2 ohms with .02% distortion. Yes that is double the distortion but the human ear can't tell the difference.

True. That's why Tom Nousaine (he's in the employee section) takes subs up to 10% distortion during measurement. The only problem with that is the new low distortion subs that use XBL^2 technology. You can push a Tumult with a bridged Crown K2 and you won't know the sub is straining until it starts to fall apart.

-Robert

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

ouch. i think you just dogged some orgers for no reason. id get 2 shivas (250shipped) and get a 400 watt amp. put them in a 1.5 cube box and call it a system for under 400(not including box). or... id actually get a tempest (its a 15 for 150 shipped) put it in a 2.5 cube stuffed sealed box with a 400 watt amp and call it an even more impressive system for under 400 with a box.

jdm71488

ok... im starting to think realistic with cost and everything... now... i kind of wanted to get like four smaller subs and wire them series and parallel to obtain 4ohms and run those through an amp, but that would render about 500W RMS and thats too much for me... (i dont want my trunk to rattle outside the car... like most peoples do...) so by that id probably have to get a high wattage amp which kind of defies the point of me trying to get a quality system for a good price...

SO! what my plans are now... is to get:

(2) 10" kicker comps @ 125 rms each

i figure this setup should be sufficient enough to meet my needs...

but i dont know if what specs the amp should be at to get the full potential out of them and not blow them at the same time...

id have to go 2 channel right? and wire them independently? because if i bridge it id have to wire them either series or parallel which would f up the impedence which messes with the wattage...

so, what rms should my amp be at for those speakers? if they are even worth it...

this one? http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=13886 is it 150 per speaker?

or this one? http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=14320

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

i still dont understand what you want from a system? it seems like you just need a good component set and call it a day. pretty much any sub/subs will make your trunk rattle a little at least. you can sound deaden your trunk which will help with vibrations.

jdm71488

i guess i am making it hard for you guys... my appologies...

i already have alpine type-s fulls, and alpine type-s components are on their way here now...

i just want a mild bass system...

ok to make it simple... what wattage rms is my amp going to need to be to fully push those kickers in my previous post?

how should i wire it? bridged? or what? i get confused on this part...

thanks again guys... id be lost without you!

jmal

This one might be better for those subs...the first amp was only 75w RMS x2...this one is 115w RMS x2.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=13436

IF you get this amp at 115w x2, just wire it directly...one channel to one sub.
I'm not a big fan of running speakers in 2 ohms, but thats just me.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

are you building or buying a box? and im assuming you want a sealed box. does size matter?

jdm71488

id rather keep it 4 as well... i would have to wire them directly cuz if i bridged it, the speakers would be wired together which would alter the ohms right... ?

i guess that would be good, running only 115 into the 125 subs with the rockford fosgate amp... it would still hit moderately dont ya think? atleast this way, they shouldn't blow should they?

i will be buying in a local shop somewhere... or online... gotta get the speakers and crap first... i was just going to get the speakers and amp, and have a shop box em and install everything...

C3nthusiast

iTrader: (3)

I think you should but locally at a big company like Best Buy, Circuit, Tweeters, Myer Emco. Don't buy online or at a private shop for your 1st system. Not that these aren't great places to shop. The larger local compnaies will give you a 30 day, no questions asked return policy. That way if you are not satisfied you get your money back that day. Try paying with your debit or credit card. Sometimes they mail you checks for cash back that exceeds $100 or something.

You can buy a 1,000 watt amp and play it on a 200 watt speaker and not blow it. It's all about how you use or abuse it. Some speakers are more effiecient than others. So different combinations of speakers and amps will get you a wide range of results. Distortion is going to be the main cause of you blowing your speakers not too much power.

Do you remember what your stock sound system sounded like. It probably had a decent amount of bass for a stock system right? What did it sound like after you changed the speakers? You lost bass! Thats because the aftermarket speakers aren't as effieicent as the stocks. They're designed to handle more power.

Like I said before. I was just involved in the install of a car that hit 138db with one Sony 12" sub with a Sony 2100 amp. If you've ever been to a DB drag I'm sure you've noticed a lot of cars with a lot more power that can't even hit 138 db.

jdm71488

well after hearing what you had to say about obtaining my first system it totally made sense...

by going to a local high end store, i wont have to pay shipping, wait for it, then have someone put it all together... im going to ciruit city, and anything over $99 is intalled so after talking to him for a while i asked him out of everything they had, what setup would he get...

he said a 300 RMS infinty referrence was his best seller as of lately, and he used an MTX amp just as an example, BUT, i found a 283 RMS infinity reference amp to push it for only $200...

so for the 12" sub already enclosed in q-logic box, and amp it will cost roughly $350...

this system is perfect for what i am looking for... subtle, but still noticable... not a bit of distortion (from what i can tell) so overall, id second this recommendation to go listen to some systems before you buy them as C3 told me to...

if anyone can reply back to let me know the quality of infinity, it would be greatly appreciated...

thanks to all your help everyone...

2 Da Max

iTrader: (2)

sony xpolds wow. ppl told me they were garbage

jdm71488

ive heard the same thing... but ive also heard good things too...

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

well have you actually "heard them"? i have and i think their garbage but alot of people just listen to what other people think.

C3nthusiast

iTrader: (3)

Any speaker can sound like crap if you put it in the wrong box. I've listened to cheap Lightning Audio subs in a box designed around the speakers specs and I was amazed. They were $80 a pair.